But how would he take total control in the future as a math genius?
Once we see him kill the guy with his mind and find out he killed his aunt as a child, that points to how the Rainmaker was able to single-handedly take over all the other organizations and gain all his power.
What? Cid was going to use his body exploding TK to take over the criminal world in the future and unite all the organizations under his rule, basically to rule the world. He was cleaning house with loopers because he blamed them for his mother's death and also because he needed to eliminate time travel because it made his young self vulnerable before he became unstoppable. I don't think the story would be the same at all if he was just good at math.
"A closed loop managed to escape and kill my mother. Quick! Approximately exactly 30 years from when the event happened start closing loops by sending them back 30 years to have them killed! That'll fix the problem!"
But how would he take total control in the future as a math genius?
Once we see him kill the guy with his mind and find out he killed his aunt as a child, that points to how the Rainmaker was able to single-handedly take over all the other organizations and gain all his power.
What? Cid was going to use his body exploding TK to take over the criminal world in the future and unite all the organizations under his rule, basically to rule the world. He was cleaning house with loopers because he blamed them for his mother's death and also because he needed to eliminate time travel because it made his young self vulnerable before he became unstoppable. I don't think the story would be the same at all if he was just good at math.
Sure, but he could just as well have used "genius" to do the same thing. It added a pointless supernatural element to a logic that was already straining credulity. As others have said, there were emotional threads that would have been better elements to pursue, like that young asshole with the revolver being a younger version of whatshisname and so on.
It reminds me of prometheus, where you have this beautifully crafted film that's ruined (for me) by inconsistent logic and red herrings that are unintentional.
I will watch it again without those distractions and see if it fares better.
I was using supernatural to simply mean not real. Time travel isn't real, Tesla didn't/couldn't make such a machine. Poor word to use because it more evokes ghosts, werewolves, magic, etc. I found that plot device to be very clumsily executed. At the time, I thought Tesla was trying to swindle Jackman's character, because such a device had no foreshadowing. People are griefing on Looper's TK, but it's one of the first things introduced in the movie. A twist shouldn't just happen out of nowhere.
I was using supernatural to simply mean not real. Time travel isn't real, Tesla didn't/couldn't make such a machine. Poor word to use because it more evokes ghosts, werewolves, magic, etc. I found that plot device to be very clumsily executed. At the time, I thought Tesla was trying to swindle Jackman's character, because such a device had no foreshadowing. People are griefing on Looper's TK, but it's one of the first things introduced in the movie. A twist shouldn't just happen out of nowhere.
I see what you're saying now, in that it (like time travel in almost every fictional presentation) required you to suspend your disbelief. I respectfully disagree though for two reasons:
1) I didn't find it to be out of nowhere (in fact... it is foreshadowed in literally the first shot of the movie), and in fact saw it coming a number of scenes before the reveal, which itself was appropriate because...
2) The entire structure of the narrative made it necessary for Christian Bale's character (and thus the audience) to not understand its operation until the very end. The scene in which its workings as well as
the twin factor re: Bale's characters
are revealed was the "prestige" of the movie itself.
Note: I had no problem whatsoever with the TK in Looper; I didn't even consider it a "twist," it colored the plot and made some scenes more visually interesting but wasn't that highly relevant.
Sure, but he could just as well have used "genius" to do the same thing. It added a pointless supernatural element to a logic that was already straining credulity. As others have said, there were emotional threads that would have been better elements to pursue, like that young asshole with the revolver being a younger version of whatshisname and so on.
It reminds me of prometheus, where you have this beautifully crafted film that's ruined (for me) by inconsistent logic and red herrings that are unintentional.
I will watch it again without those distractions and see if it fares better.
this is misunderstanding what kind of threat cid is. you can't use long division in a temper tantrum to freaking explode a person. being a boy genius isn't volatile, and the point of cid's character is that he is volatile. that he has the potential to be uncontrollable, should he lose his mother. could you restructure the entire story to make it so cid is vulnerable because of his genius? probably but why? how does that make the movie better?
And "logic" isn't an answer because the tk is in the film from the very beginning. that it is supernatural doesn't mean it's logic breaking. it's woven into the fabric of the movie from the onset. it's already a sci-fi movie, why is one more stock sci-fi concept that hard to digest.
I know I'm seeming like a hyper-defender, but I agree with enough of the problems in the film. Kid Blue's story peters out (though I do like the way he dies).
The only conclusion that would made sense to me is that JGL chose to shoot himself to spare the kid's life, even if that means him losing it at some point and turning into that psycho rainmaker guy. What happens in the movie tho, doesn't make any sense.
The only conclusion that would made sense to me is that JGL chose to shoot himself to spare the kid's life, even if that means him losing it at some point and turning into that psycho rainmaker guy. What happens in the movie tho, doesn't make any sense.
?
the kid grows up to be rainmaker. well, he would have if old joe had killed sara. the kid wasn't about to die, young joe wasn't sparing cid's life. he was sparing sara's.
that's all explicitly stated in the final scene.
?
the kid grows up to be rainmaker. well, he would have if old joe had killed sara. the kid wasn't about to die, young joe wasn't sparing cid's life. he was sparing sara's.
that's all explicitly stated in the final scene.
Yeah well the movie also explicitely states that the kid becomes the rainmaker in a timeline where old joe is killed straight away, nothing supposedly happened to his mom and young joe lives his happy life in shangai.
Yeah well the movie also explicitely states that the kid becomes the rainmaker in a timeline where old joe is killed straight away, nothing supposedly happened to his mom and young joe lives his happy life in shangai.
in that portion of the loop young joe never meets cid though. and young joe clearly has an impact on sara and cid. by discontinuing the loops young joe shifts it to an entirely different timeline, I believe. not the looped one we'd seen.
What I'm saying is what Looper is about family and redemption, not zany time travel antics. And that's the lense I view it through: does the story work? Do I feel the thematic elements at play? Is the character's journey compelling and satisfying? Not "do the exact specifics of time travel as depicted in the film work?".
Why does JGL think that the Rainmaker is a "bad" future for the kid? Couldn't it just as easily have been a "good" future? The kid, hurt by the loss of his mother, eventually becomes powerful and uses his power to retroactively shut down an obviously criminal and terrible enterprise. The cost is the life of a few Loopers, of course, but a net gain to society. The Rainmaker didn't do anything I'd consider "bad". Even from Willis' knowledge, the Rainmaker is just some guy who took control of criminal syndicates. We don't actually hear what the Rainmaker does with that control. How are we to know that the kid doesn't grow up to be the Rainmaker anyway?
Is Mr. Daddy Problems supposed to be Jeff Daniels' younger self or his son or just a random?
I think of Paul Dano as sort of a poor man's JGL (even visually), so watching them both act against each other was weird, but between JGL's makeup and Dano's hair they didn't look anything like in this film.
Where was the film supposed to be set? Sugar Cane doesn't grow anywhere in the US besides Hawaii. Is that intended to imply that climate change has reshaped the US' climate that drastically?
How does Willis figure out that the third kid is the Rainmaker? He never gets to kill the second kid.
Why does JGL think that the Rainmaker is a "bad" future for the kid? Couldn't it just as easily have been a "good" future? The kid, hurt by the loss of his mother, eventually becomes powerful and uses his power to retroactively shut down an obviously criminal and terrible enterprise. The cost is the life of a few Loopers, of course, but a net gain to society. The Rainmaker didn't do anything I'd consider "bad". Even from Willis' knowledge, the Rainmaker is just some guy who took control of criminal syndicates. We don't actually hear what the Rainmaker does with that control. How are we to know that the kid doesn't grow up to be the Rainmaker anyway?
Is Mr. Daddy Problems supposed to be Jeff Daniels' younger self or his son or just a random?
I think of Paul Dano as sort of a poor man's JGL (even visually), so watching them both act against each other was weird, but between JGL's makeup and Dano's hair they didn't look anything like in this film.
Where was the film supposed to be set? Sugar Cane doesn't grow anywhere in the US besides Hawaii. Is that intended to imply that climate change has reshaped the US' climate that drastically?
How does Willis figure out that the third kid is the Rainmaker? He never gets to kill the second kid.
At some point in the movie there is a telecast of panic, destruction and people running in different directions with screaming words of terror from the news anchor yelling RAINMAKER! I've watched Looper multiple times. Rainmaker is essentially Magneto without a superhero to stop him.
Edit: I think the exact moment this scene takes place is right after they abduct Old Joe from his house in case you wanted to see the scene for yourself.
As he's getting ready to kill the second kid is when Young Joe sees Cid explode the Gat Man, which forms the memory in Old Joe and he sees it. I'd imagine seeing/ remembering that would lead one to assume that is someone who could become the Rainmaker.
Young Joe kills himself because he sees himself in that kid. The kid becoming The Rainmaker parallels Joe becoming a Looper, only worse. The movie constantly refers back to Joe as a kid, and a high young Joe almost runs over a kid similar to how Jeff Daniels describes Joe as a kid.
Saving the mom was a secondary benefit, saving the kid from the same life as Joe is the point, and he was saving himself in a way.
As he's getting ready to kill the second kid is when Young Joe sees Cid explode the Gat Man, which forms the memory in Old Joe and he sees it. I'd imagine seeing/ remembering that would lead one to assume that is someone who could become the Rainmaker.
Wait, why did the kid become the Rainmaker in the first place? Originally he never knew Bruce or JGL, so he had a chance to grow normally with his mother, right?
Wait, why did the kid become the Rainmaker in the first place? Originally he never knew Bruce or JGL, so he had a chance to grow normally with his mother, right?
in that portion of the loop young joe never meets cid though. and young joe clearly has an impact on sara and cid. by discontinuing the loops young joe shifts it to an entirely different timeline, I believe. not the looped one we'd seen.
a quick glance reveals "cinemasins" to be a goddamn cancer. Trust I'd believe this even if I didn't like this movie. in fact, I bet they have videos for movies I do hate, let's try it out
edit: yep, I hated The amazing spider-man and their video on it is 400x more insufferable. I hope the person creating that gets locked out of all internet access and barred from entering another theater in his life, would save us all a lot of suffering.
I see what you're saying now, in that it (like time travel in almost every fictional presentation) required you to suspend your disbelief. I respectfully disagree though for two reasons:
1) I didn't find it to be out of nowhere (in fact... it is foreshadowed in literally the first shot of the movie), and in fact saw it coming a number of scenes before the reveal, which itself was appropriate because...
2) The entire structure of the narrative made it necessary for Christian Bale's character (and thus the audience) to not understand its operation until the very end. The scene in which its workings as well as
the twin factor re: Bale's characters
are revealed was the "prestige" of the movie itself.
Note: I had no problem whatsoever with the TK in Looper; I didn't even consider it a "twist," it colored the plot and made some scenes more visually interesting but wasn't that highly relevant.
"put on a pedestal" implies that it's given that a work is not deserving of praise at all. however, the people that you disagree with believe it is deserving of praise. seems like you're trying to state an opinion as fact.
I don't think I could ever watch a movie with some of you guys. The character development, the emotional throughlines, the themes - that's 95% of what I care about. The other 5% would go partially to plot machinations and whether or not the internal logic is 100% sound, but its never the focus for me.
I thought it was okay. JGL did a decent enough Willis impersonation, as did Willis himself. The kid was appropriately adorable and creepy as all hell (helps that they gave him cheek implants), and the whole thing felt well made. Jeff Daniels' character felt pointless, and I kept expecting him to have some greater role besides "leader of the goons". I also thought we might get some insight into the one guy with the limp. It was strange how he seemed to faun over Daniels and seek his approval. I thought we might get some greater understanding of that.
A lot of the details of the world and time travel rubbed me the wrong way. Telekenesis felt tacked on and pointless. The rules of time time travel gave me a headache too. So changes in the past version of a person will impact the future version, but it feels like it's only limited to changes in the physical body, which felt off to me. The ending also had me wondering "How does that work?"
In fact, everything involving the Rainmaker had me scratching my head. Is there a reason why the Rainmaker had to go specifically? The entire point of being a looper is that you will eventually die in 30 years time. Though they explain that the Rainmaker is taking over the syndicates and closing loops, what reason did Old Joe have to target him? Closing loops was always in the cards, and nothing about his loop being closed seemed out of the ordinary. Why was he going after the Rainmaker as opposed to the heads of the syndicates? And if Young Joe kills himself, thus preventing the Rainmaker from being created (if Cid is indeed the Rainmaker), then what real impact does that have on the future? As far as I can tell it just prevents the Rainmaker's dominance over the syndicates. Are there chunks of details that I'm just forgetting or misremembering that's throwing off my understanding of the story?
It was fine. Time travel movies almost always leave me cold because the logic gets so screwy. This was no different, but it was well acted and pretty well put together.
Watched it this morning. About what I expected it to be, from seeing the trailer I didn't think it would be anything brilliant but it could have held my interest a little bit more.
Not sure why they felt the need to go with the makeup for JGL. Is it more or less distracting to just have an actor not look as much as a younger version of another actor? You expect me to believe in time travel but I can't see him age to be Bruce Willis without a funny nose? I did like JGL doing the Willis imitation though, it reminded me of Face/Off when Travolta and Cage were mimicking each other, very hammy.
Two quick questions -
1. Probably already argued but
it really makes no sense to have to kill yourself. Talk about loose ends, can't you just kill a fellow looper to avoid that temptation? Was it explained at all beyond the gold and silver bars or was it just a plot device?
2. They made such a point of
body disposal, it was the only use for such a powerful tool as time travel. Really? Wouldn't it be more effective to just drive over someone when they were crossing the street and making it look like a hit and run? What did they do with the asian lady. She was shot in her home and I didn't see them worrying about sending her body to the past.
Watched it this morning. About what I expected it to be, from seeing the trailer I didn't think it would be anything brilliant but it could have held my interest a little bit more.
Not sure why they felt the need to go with the makeup for JGL. Is it more or less distracting to just have an actor not look as much as a younger version of another actor? You expect me to believe in time travel but I can't see him age to be Bruce Willis without a funny nose? I did like JGL doing the Willis imitation though, it reminded me of Face/Off when Travolta and Cage were mimicking each other, very hammy.
Two quick questions -
1. Probably already argued but
it really makes no sense to have to kill yourself. Talk about loose ends, can't you just kill a fellow looper to avoid that temptation? Was it explained at all beyond the gold and silver bars or was it just a plot device?
2. They made such a point of
body disposal, it was the only use for such a powerful tool as time travel. Really? Wouldn't it be more effective to just drive over someone when they were crossing the street and making it look like a hit and run? What did they do with the asian lady. She was shot in her home and I didn't see them worrying about sending her body to the past.
they explain it: killing other Loopers breeds discontent. joe has a VO line along the lines of "no one could imagine seeing the man who will eventually kill him every day for the rest of his life." closing your own loop is more contained and solitary and safe.
2)
you didn't see about them worrying about her because she was killed by mistake and whoever killed her would probably be in a gigantic amount of trouble and probably be killed by the mob for which he works. and you don't see that because you stay with Joe and Old Joe. we're told advanced technology is powerful enough to make killing of any kind impossible when done in the future. people are alerted about a death right away, it's not wrong to presume there's heavy surveillance, nanotech could report the cause of death and even who/what was around at the time, so on. Basically, it is given that killing is impossible and several reasons for why are given. should be enough. So from there looping is useful.
Just saw this. It was a decent film. Far better than Oblivion, which I saw on Saturday.
I can agree with the people criticizing it. The film's plot slows down as soon as young Joe gets to the farm. And there are a couple of scenes that were too sappy for me.
1. When old Joe and young Joe are at the diner and old Joe is talking about his wife. 2. When Sarah is talking about how she had to give up Cid after she and young Joe have sex. I also think it would be cool if Kid Blue and Abe were the same person. There seemed to be a connection between them. All in all, though, old Joe is a bad human being through and through. He claims the woman he met would "save him" but the montages of him blowing people's heads off and detonating stores makes him a terrible person who deserves to die. Young Joe just provides the justice.
they explain it: killing other Loopers breeds discontent. joe has a VO line along the lines of "no one could imagine seeing the man who will eventually kill him every day for the rest of his life." closing your own loop is more contained and solitary and safe.
2)
you didn't see about them worrying about her because she was killed by mistake and whoever killed her would probably be in a gigantic amount of trouble and probably be killed by the mob for which he works. and you don't see that because you stay with Joe and Old Joe. we're told advanced technology is powerful enough to make killing of any kind impossible when done in the future. people are alerted about a death right away, it's not wrong to presume there's heavy surveillance, nanotech could report the cause of death and even who/what was around at the time, so on. Basically, it is given that killing is impossible and several reasons for why are given. should be enough. So from there looping is useful.
