(Sorry the title doesn't have the proper "13th", didn't fit).
Anyway, I recently watched through both of these series in their entirety, having never seen a single one of the films before.
The one generic comment that applies more to the Nightmare films (but at least the first Friday with zombie child Jason): man, those little "surprise, gotcha!" ending that throw on an extra "scare" at the end... generally suck. They just usually fit real poorly to the flow of the movie (and often make little sense) to end things on a "scary" note.
Oh, and quotes on "scary" because... I don't think there was one even vaguely frightening scene between either franchise. Don't particularly mind as I wasn't overly looking to be scared, but yeah, they certainly didn't do anything for me in that way.
Also, this admittedly took probably half a year, so the early Nightmare movies in particular are a little bit foggier for me (went Nightmare 1-6, then all the Friday movies, the crossover, and finally the rest of the Nightmare stuff.)
Now, to get to my thoughts on the films.
Nightmare on Elm Street
1:This one started things off pretty solidly. My big issue is that the nightmares seem more governed by budget than creativity, just being, like, a base Freddy goofily hobbling around in the exact same sets. In theory that allows for the idea of "is this a dream or not?!" but... not really using the idea to its fullest. But yeah, nice enough start to the franchise, and some neat ideas and cool moments (especially liked just going full on Home Alone on Freddy at the end, IIRC).
2: This one... so close to being my favorite watching through all these, but falls short. Some fantastic moments of cheese, with stuff like the damn exploding bird. But yeah, I had it pointed out at the start all the ideas/imagery about homosexuality which actually blends freaking awesomely into the movie. But then... it's kind of distractingly bad if you take that as the key theme, as it turns a movie about a dude struggling with his homosexuality and falling apart for it... only to have him saved by heterosexual love in the end. :/
3: Where it gets dumb, but I'd still say in a good way. Nice, super cheesy, but amusing. Like, that freaking skeleton is a brilliant example of a franchise just saying "eh, screw it" in gloriously dumb fashion. I'd say it's noticably worse than 1 and 2, but still worth watching. IIRC this is where the "nun raped by 1000 maniacs" plot popped up, right? Because that's... honestly dumb, and by trying to make things more "evil", it just kind of doesn't work any better than his straight up child murderer setup.
4/5: Not a whole lot to say about either of these, outside of I'd say for both of these the amount of budget/care bottoms out enough that I'd call neither worth watching, really. The reflection thing is so stupid, and the dog peeing fire revival was a clear sign that, much as the series didn't seem to care much before, the lore/logic was worthless at that point and no thought would be spent on how Freddy was coming back. But mostly... they're just not very good movies.
6: This, though? Holy crap, talk about a turnaround. Not perfect at all, but I'd say this one was the clear winner for best of the two franchises. Just finally embraced and nailed the whole cheesy and over the top and creative dream logic schtick that should've been Freddy's calling card from the very start. On top of that... it actually, you know, looks back on Freddy as a human, which is honestly more unnerving in a lot of ways. Those demon things were pretty doofy and awkward, though.
Wes Craven's New Nightmare: However, this was pure crap. Like, I see that it was trying to be a smarter, more artsy take on things, but... it just didn't come together worth crap. It was largely just boring, but you also had stuff like awkward child acting, the "darker, more evil Freddy" still being the same old character (like, see him lifting the kid over cars from the sky) but... more bland and hardly a part of the film. Also, I feel like it would've been more interesting to see it focused on Robert Englund, as he's much more the star of the franchise than the girl who played Nancy. (Though that wouldn't have saved the film alone). Plus little dumb things, like how... the dude was already driving drowsy at that one point, so he was in a bad place even without Freddy (and somehow his three hour drive mid-day leaving work early had him driving late at night?) And that really unsafe playground design that apparently wasn't part of the dream world? Oh, and did those earthquakes not actually really tie in properly despite the promenence? I guess earthquakes are just a sign of real world Freddy for reasons?
A Nightmare on Elm Street (the remake):
So... not a whole lot to say here. It largely retreads ground from the original (with a ton of scene/shot call-backs that even I picked up on, despite only having watched the original once, like 6 months prior). In theory it probably does SOME stuff better, but I dunno, felt like it was lacking energy or something compared to the original. Also, maybe it's just an unfair "this is different, so I don't like it" judgment after all those movies with the same actor, but... this Freddy just isn't as good. I think it's because he tries to sound more serious in the voice... but then quips like old Freddy, but without as much skill in the delivery. I dunno, just felt like a lesser version of the original film to me.
Friday the 13th
1-5: Sad as it is to say, I have the same exact issue with almost all these films, and it's... they're honestly pretty damn boring. For one thing, they spend waaaaaaaay too long with the killings happening in secret from the cast at large, so there's little tension generally, just teenager antics interspersed with short, halfhearted and rather weak death scenes. Part of that comes back to another issue: I suppose this varied a tiny bit as these things progressed, but holy crap, these movies had approximately zero budget. Everything looks soooooooo cheap and cheaply shot. Plus almost none of the characters even really build up much of a personality for you to grow even vaguely attached. At best they're some simple stereotype, but some aren't even that developed.
I will say with the original though, that the reveal works especially well considering how the franchise built up, and hell, once it happens, I'd say that point on was a fairly enjoyable ride through the end (though still a slog to get there). Also actually really liked the performance from
, IIRC. Oh, and the "you're doomed!" crazy old guy was the one really amusing character, so it's a shame he wasn't allowed to stick around further.
Anyway, my friends and I determined that the only reason the franchise managed to survive so long despite being so horribly, horribly dull, was the tits. Because I can't really see what else could have people interested in most of these.
6: Once again, though, 6 was somehow the magic number, and is my favorite in this franchise as well. Suddenly Jason puts some creativity in the kills, and the cheesiness ramps up well, and you even get tension the whole way through because oh hey, someone actually realizes Jason is on the loose! (And they said screw it and went full on 100% he's a zombie). Just flowed a lot nicer and faster too, and even the bit roles seemed to have a lot more personality. Not amazing, but a solid little schlocky slasher film. (Dumb plan for the climax, though, but that's nothing new for these sorts of films). Hell, IIRC, this is even the only one they seemed confident enough to not need to jam in tits to sell it.
7: Aaaaand right back to dullness. Despite psychic powers, still feels a lot more like the slow emptiness of 1-5, and I can't say I got much out of this one. Outside of my group managing to joke that it'd end on zombie abusize dad to the rescue... only for that to actually happen!
8: Right back to the cheesy goodness though. Terribly misleading title for most of it, but Jason on a Boat isn't a bad little movie. Again, I'd say it hits the key bit of actually letting people know Jason is there to ratchet up tension. And then when it actually hits Manhattan you get some fun scenes, like just straight up boxing Jason, or Jason stopping that rape, or any other number of little things. Just wish that part was more of the movie. Oh, and weird, weird ending. Still, a nice, dumb, broken but still fun little movie.
9: Goooooood lord this one was baaaaaaaad, though. Somehow looks cheaper than the older ones despite probably more budget, and an even more misleading title than 8. And in a totally good plan, you somehow have most of the movie with "person we're told Jason is possessing", so... just random people killing folks. Couldn't even take the hockey mask around for SOMETHING to be there. Hell, "Jason" doesn't even act right in those other bodies. Like, yeah, Jason would totally tie a guy up in bondage (in a house he got somewhere?) and then... shave him? Totally fits the MO. And on top of all that... adds a ton of weird, pointless lore out of nowhere with no explanation (outside of the exposition bounty hunter, who even throws in an entirely unexplained "remember me?" line to Jason, like... what?) Hell, I'm pretty sure it doesn't even stay consistent within the movie itself, though I'm not about to expend the mental energy to analyize this crap in depth. Oh, and we end on a random Freddy tease waaaaaaaay before the crossover, so that's an odd little thing.
X: At least we end things on an amusing note, though. Like, don't get me wrong, this is a bad movie, for sure. I could pick apart a ton of crap. But it's a fun bad movie, seemingly made from somebody watching both Alien and Aliens and saying "let's do both of those at the same time somehow, and throw in Jason (and make it all a whole hell of a lot more sloppy)". If nothing else, the scene where they trick Jason with the fake camp is absolute perfection and a great sendoff to the series that I will cherish forever.
The remake: Funny that it's kind of a remake of 2-ish because of the way the franchise built up, rather than the first movie. It has some nice-ish ideas (actually kind of like the survivalist Jason here), but honestly, it's just a run-of-the-mill horror film that does okay enough to get by, but doesn't really stand out strongly in any way, IMO. Sadly that still puts it above a lot of these flicks for me, but yeah, just no real strong feelings on this one. It just kind of... was.
Freddy vs. Jason:
I could nitpick this one, as it sure as hell wasn't a perfect film. There's a lot of little odd bits that don't fit in great with the original movies on either side, and definitely some weird and weak bits... but they kind of nailed the big dumb fight moments, and this was just the stupid capstone I wanted it to be.
Anyway, I recently watched through both of these series in their entirety, having never seen a single one of the films before.
The one generic comment that applies more to the Nightmare films (but at least the first Friday with zombie child Jason): man, those little "surprise, gotcha!" ending that throw on an extra "scare" at the end... generally suck. They just usually fit real poorly to the flow of the movie (and often make little sense) to end things on a "scary" note.
Oh, and quotes on "scary" because... I don't think there was one even vaguely frightening scene between either franchise. Don't particularly mind as I wasn't overly looking to be scared, but yeah, they certainly didn't do anything for me in that way.
Also, this admittedly took probably half a year, so the early Nightmare movies in particular are a little bit foggier for me (went Nightmare 1-6, then all the Friday movies, the crossover, and finally the rest of the Nightmare stuff.)
Now, to get to my thoughts on the films.
Nightmare on Elm Street
1:This one started things off pretty solidly. My big issue is that the nightmares seem more governed by budget than creativity, just being, like, a base Freddy goofily hobbling around in the exact same sets. In theory that allows for the idea of "is this a dream or not?!" but... not really using the idea to its fullest. But yeah, nice enough start to the franchise, and some neat ideas and cool moments (especially liked just going full on Home Alone on Freddy at the end, IIRC).
2: This one... so close to being my favorite watching through all these, but falls short. Some fantastic moments of cheese, with stuff like the damn exploding bird. But yeah, I had it pointed out at the start all the ideas/imagery about homosexuality which actually blends freaking awesomely into the movie. But then... it's kind of distractingly bad if you take that as the key theme, as it turns a movie about a dude struggling with his homosexuality and falling apart for it... only to have him saved by heterosexual love in the end. :/
3: Where it gets dumb, but I'd still say in a good way. Nice, super cheesy, but amusing. Like, that freaking skeleton is a brilliant example of a franchise just saying "eh, screw it" in gloriously dumb fashion. I'd say it's noticably worse than 1 and 2, but still worth watching. IIRC this is where the "nun raped by 1000 maniacs" plot popped up, right? Because that's... honestly dumb, and by trying to make things more "evil", it just kind of doesn't work any better than his straight up child murderer setup.
4/5: Not a whole lot to say about either of these, outside of I'd say for both of these the amount of budget/care bottoms out enough that I'd call neither worth watching, really. The reflection thing is so stupid, and the dog peeing fire revival was a clear sign that, much as the series didn't seem to care much before, the lore/logic was worthless at that point and no thought would be spent on how Freddy was coming back. But mostly... they're just not very good movies.
6: This, though? Holy crap, talk about a turnaround. Not perfect at all, but I'd say this one was the clear winner for best of the two franchises. Just finally embraced and nailed the whole cheesy and over the top and creative dream logic schtick that should've been Freddy's calling card from the very start. On top of that... it actually, you know, looks back on Freddy as a human, which is honestly more unnerving in a lot of ways. Those demon things were pretty doofy and awkward, though.
Wes Craven's New Nightmare: However, this was pure crap. Like, I see that it was trying to be a smarter, more artsy take on things, but... it just didn't come together worth crap. It was largely just boring, but you also had stuff like awkward child acting, the "darker, more evil Freddy" still being the same old character (like, see him lifting the kid over cars from the sky) but... more bland and hardly a part of the film. Also, I feel like it would've been more interesting to see it focused on Robert Englund, as he's much more the star of the franchise than the girl who played Nancy. (Though that wouldn't have saved the film alone). Plus little dumb things, like how... the dude was already driving drowsy at that one point, so he was in a bad place even without Freddy (and somehow his three hour drive mid-day leaving work early had him driving late at night?) And that really unsafe playground design that apparently wasn't part of the dream world? Oh, and did those earthquakes not actually really tie in properly despite the promenence? I guess earthquakes are just a sign of real world Freddy for reasons?
A Nightmare on Elm Street (the remake):
So... not a whole lot to say here. It largely retreads ground from the original (with a ton of scene/shot call-backs that even I picked up on, despite only having watched the original once, like 6 months prior). In theory it probably does SOME stuff better, but I dunno, felt like it was lacking energy or something compared to the original. Also, maybe it's just an unfair "this is different, so I don't like it" judgment after all those movies with the same actor, but... this Freddy just isn't as good. I think it's because he tries to sound more serious in the voice... but then quips like old Freddy, but without as much skill in the delivery. I dunno, just felt like a lesser version of the original film to me.
Friday the 13th
1-5: Sad as it is to say, I have the same exact issue with almost all these films, and it's... they're honestly pretty damn boring. For one thing, they spend waaaaaaaay too long with the killings happening in secret from the cast at large, so there's little tension generally, just teenager antics interspersed with short, halfhearted and rather weak death scenes. Part of that comes back to another issue: I suppose this varied a tiny bit as these things progressed, but holy crap, these movies had approximately zero budget. Everything looks soooooooo cheap and cheaply shot. Plus almost none of the characters even really build up much of a personality for you to grow even vaguely attached. At best they're some simple stereotype, but some aren't even that developed.
I will say with the original though, that the reveal works especially well considering how the franchise built up, and hell, once it happens, I'd say that point on was a fairly enjoyable ride through the end (though still a slog to get there). Also actually really liked the performance from
the actress for Jason's mom
Anyway, my friends and I determined that the only reason the franchise managed to survive so long despite being so horribly, horribly dull, was the tits. Because I can't really see what else could have people interested in most of these.
6: Once again, though, 6 was somehow the magic number, and is my favorite in this franchise as well. Suddenly Jason puts some creativity in the kills, and the cheesiness ramps up well, and you even get tension the whole way through because oh hey, someone actually realizes Jason is on the loose! (And they said screw it and went full on 100% he's a zombie). Just flowed a lot nicer and faster too, and even the bit roles seemed to have a lot more personality. Not amazing, but a solid little schlocky slasher film. (Dumb plan for the climax, though, but that's nothing new for these sorts of films). Hell, IIRC, this is even the only one they seemed confident enough to not need to jam in tits to sell it.
7: Aaaaand right back to dullness. Despite psychic powers, still feels a lot more like the slow emptiness of 1-5, and I can't say I got much out of this one. Outside of my group managing to joke that it'd end on zombie abusize dad to the rescue... only for that to actually happen!
8: Right back to the cheesy goodness though. Terribly misleading title for most of it, but Jason on a Boat isn't a bad little movie. Again, I'd say it hits the key bit of actually letting people know Jason is there to ratchet up tension. And then when it actually hits Manhattan you get some fun scenes, like just straight up boxing Jason, or Jason stopping that rape, or any other number of little things. Just wish that part was more of the movie. Oh, and weird, weird ending. Still, a nice, dumb, broken but still fun little movie.
9: Goooooood lord this one was baaaaaaaad, though. Somehow looks cheaper than the older ones despite probably more budget, and an even more misleading title than 8. And in a totally good plan, you somehow have most of the movie with "person we're told Jason is possessing", so... just random people killing folks. Couldn't even take the hockey mask around for SOMETHING to be there. Hell, "Jason" doesn't even act right in those other bodies. Like, yeah, Jason would totally tie a guy up in bondage (in a house he got somewhere?) and then... shave him? Totally fits the MO. And on top of all that... adds a ton of weird, pointless lore out of nowhere with no explanation (outside of the exposition bounty hunter, who even throws in an entirely unexplained "remember me?" line to Jason, like... what?) Hell, I'm pretty sure it doesn't even stay consistent within the movie itself, though I'm not about to expend the mental energy to analyize this crap in depth. Oh, and we end on a random Freddy tease waaaaaaaay before the crossover, so that's an odd little thing.
X: At least we end things on an amusing note, though. Like, don't get me wrong, this is a bad movie, for sure. I could pick apart a ton of crap. But it's a fun bad movie, seemingly made from somebody watching both Alien and Aliens and saying "let's do both of those at the same time somehow, and throw in Jason (and make it all a whole hell of a lot more sloppy)". If nothing else, the scene where they trick Jason with the fake camp is absolute perfection and a great sendoff to the series that I will cherish forever.
The remake: Funny that it's kind of a remake of 2-ish because of the way the franchise built up, rather than the first movie. It has some nice-ish ideas (actually kind of like the survivalist Jason here), but honestly, it's just a run-of-the-mill horror film that does okay enough to get by, but doesn't really stand out strongly in any way, IMO. Sadly that still puts it above a lot of these flicks for me, but yeah, just no real strong feelings on this one. It just kind of... was.
Freddy vs. Jason:
I could nitpick this one, as it sure as hell wasn't a perfect film. There's a lot of little odd bits that don't fit in great with the original movies on either side, and definitely some weird and weak bits... but they kind of nailed the big dumb fight moments, and this was just the stupid capstone I wanted it to be.
