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[NegativeCero]

Unmarked spoilers below:

I finished my first run with this one tonight and wanted to talk about it while it's still fresh in my mind, and hopefully figure out why this game went from universally loved at launch to kinda crapped on years later.

So first, I have to give a shoutout to the art in this game. If there's one thing this series has going for it that I think anyone would agree with is that Irrational creates gorgeous worlds to explore. I found myself taking my time running through areas regularly just to look at everything (fake propaganda posters are the best), which I almost never do and probably gained me a few extra audio logs throughout.

Speaking of audio logs, I wish this series didn't rely on them as much. I didn't like that I felt like I may have been missing out on something cool by not getting them all.

I get the impression that people didn't like the combat in this game, but I really liked using my different vigors to treat each arena as a playground. It wasn't amazing gunplay, but I felt that investing in more mp (or whatever the blue bar was called) gave me more flexibility in how I fought.

Special shoutout to the voice actress for Elizabeth. I loved the character and her voice actress' performance really went a long way to making that character.

Now to the main thing, the story. It kinda mind fucked me at the end with the twist that the baptism created both Comstock and our Booker and that this has played out hundreds of times before with the same result of Booker selling Anna/Elizabeth and going back for her only to end the cycle with his death.

I thought it was genuinely cool to learn, but was unclear on some things. Namely, the nature of the Lutece twins and why they seem to have supernatural powers? Is Booker now trapped in his apartment building after the credits roll now that Columbia doesn't exist?

I also want to touch on the use of racism in the game's story. I'm trying to think of games I've played that have racism like this does. I'm not sure how I feel about it. On one hand, I think it establishes Columbia as a flawed utopia like Rapture was by throwing it in as part of that society's identity (which I guess makes sense given the setting). It also seemed kinda in the background and kinda came up and disappeared in spots.

Also quickly, I played the DLC too. I hated playing through as it limited the flexibility I loved in the main game in exchange for a stealth system. It was kinda cool to see the bridging of the story into the first Bioshock and put me in the mood to go play it again (although I never played 2 so I might wait on another play though). It's a bit depressing that both Booker and Elizabeth's fates are terrible.

So yeah, I really enjoyed my time in this one and I'm sad that we'll probably never get another game after Irrational closed its doors.

I'm curious as to why public opinion has turned in this one because it's clearly a good game.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

The combat is hollow. Everything is a bullet sponge. Using tears was pretty cool and a neat innovation, but it felt a little tacked on to me.

I have gone back and read through the story and I think it's an interesting twist. The whole lighthouses thing was pretty rad to see. But yea, the combat just killed the experience for me and I never finished it.

EDIT:

I'll elaborate a bit further on my gripes with the combat. In Bioshock 1 and 2, you were constantly creeping around because you were unwelcome to the splicers. They were crazy and wanted to kill you because they're crazy. You never knew when you'd find someone coming after you. There were only a few instances where something would happen and all of a sudden the gates would close and you'd have to kill everything before proceeding. The only one that comes to mind is in Bioshock 2 when the New Orleans-esque town is burning. I'm sure there's a couple others. In Infinite, however, you very often knew when you were going to get into a fight simply because you went through a door and haven't fought for more than 10 minutes. It turned it into a Devil May Cry-esque combat system where you walk into an open area, the doors lock, and you have to kill everything before proceeding. It's boring and repetitive. it works for a game like DMC because that's how it was established and combat is a core part of that game. You are literally ranked on how stylish (pun intended) you can make your combos. I felt like the developers of Infinite sat down and said "We have this amazing world, but we're missing combat. How do we fix that? Oh, let's just lock the doors and spawn enemies for a little while. Problem solved!". There was never any tension walking around Columbia like there was in either iteration of Rapture, and that's one of the many elements that gave Bioshock its spark.

 

[enkaisu]

It's funny, the combat is the thing I actually liked about the game. It wasn't groundbreaking but it was fun and solid. Now the story, holy shit, this is the aspect of the game I couldn't figure out why people enjoyed so much. Like 1/3 into the game I my enjoyment of the story started taking a hard nose dive. Pretty much everything after you meet that rebel woman just sucked.

 

[Foxxsoxx]

I really enjoyed the game, I really find it surprising GAF dislikes it as much as it does.

The story kept me intrigued, the gameplay was fun, the characters were mostly very well written besides the Vox, and the world they built was beautiful.

My only real disappointment with the game is that there are very few melee enemies and most the enemies you do fight are the police soldiers, why not add the crazy townfolk that were in the E3 demos chasing you down with melee weapons?

 

[CecilRousso]

Think I would have enjoyed this much more as an adventure game, or even a walking simulator, rather then the tired and repetitive shooter it ended up as.

I'm curious as to why public opinion has turned in this one because it's clearly a good game.

I think it's very much because it really isn't that good as an FPS - tired and repetitive.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

I really enjoyed the game, I really find it surprising GAF dislikes it as much as it does.

FWIW, I joined GAF 3 months after Infinite and I already didn't like it

 

[BigTnaples]

Bioshock Infinite is amazing. So is Burial at Sea.



Such a tight story. No Columbia wasn't Rapture, but it was damned close. And the ending was 1000x better than OG Bioshocks. Better paced overall.

The hate it gets here is insane.

 

[hateradio]

The story fell apart as soon as you jump through the first few portals. They tried to build up these interesting other-worlds, but then nothing in them is actually that intriguing.

The game was just not very good overall.

 

[Markitron]

OK, can we just dispel the whole 'GAF hates Bioshock Infinite' narrative already?

It's a very vocal minority that dislike that game, most loved it which is why it was voted no 2 in GAF's GOTY awards, only behind The Last of Us and ahead of GTAV. This vote took place over 9 months after the game released as well, so it had plenty of time to sink in. You need only read the remaster thread going on right now to see that most are excited to play it again. Bioshock Infinite haters are like moths to a flame when a thread about it goes up.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Bioshock 1

Bioshock Infinite

Everything. From the average run and gun gameplay of every other FPS complete with the average staples, to the mook spawning BS, to the underutilized skyrail system, to the linearity of all the areas where you usually could never go back and explore after you left an area, to the deus ex machina plot that has super large plot holes that it never bothered to explain.

Bioshock Infinite was not a bad game, but it was a failure living in Bioshock and System Shock's shadows.

 

[Jumeira]

I gave up on if after 5 hours, gunplay was unbearable. Story couldn't save it.

 

[BlizzKrut]

For me, it's the best game I've ever played (along with the DLC), and yes, I've played a lot of games.

 

[Already Torn]

Once you give the story time to sink in you'll hate it and Elizabeth. Music is very good, as is the art. Overall it's embarrassingly pretentious because its story is not even half as clever as most other FPSes.

 

[DocSeuss]

I'm curious as to why public opinion has turned in this one because it's clearly a good game.

Because I don't think it's clear that it is a good game. I disliked it when I played it and I dislike it upon further rumination. The DLC is even worse, super nihilistic and depressing.

I have a lot of reasons for this, but I'm saving it for a video I'm working on.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Story is laughable. Gameplay is bad. Art is pretty good. Ultimately, I can't stand it. It falls flat on its virtual face with all the pretentiousness.

OK, can we just dispel the whole 'GAF hates Bioshock Infinite' narrative already?

It's a very vocal minority that dislike that game, most loved it which is why it was voted no 2 in GAF's GOTY awards, only behind The Last of Us and ahead of GTAV. This vote took place over 9 months after the game released as well, so it had plenty of time to sink in. You need only read the remaster thread going on right now to see that most are excited to play it again. Bioshock Infinite haters are like moths to a flame when a thread about it goes up.

Hmmm... I actually think most people saw the game for what it is (mediocre) after the hype went away and actual great games (The Last of Us) came out. Just saying.

 

[120v]

always the first game i try when i upgrade my pc. giving it a run on my 980 ti right now, game always manages to blow me away with better resolution and framerate. if not for some fugly textures i'd completely forget it was a last gen game

one of my all time favorite shooters. sure its not the game we were promised in 2011 or whenever but so what

 

[Markitron]

Hmmm... I actually think most people saw the game for what it is (mediocre) after the hype went away and actual great games (The Last of Us) came out. Just saying.

Which is why they voted it second 9 months after it came out and 6 months after TLOU came out. This is the type of post that seemingly gives it a bad name.

 

[BigTnaples]

Story is laughable. Gameplay is bad. Art is pretty good. Ultimately, I can't stand it. It falls flat on its virtual face with all the pretentiousness.



Hmmm... I actually think most people saw the game for what it is (mediocre) after the hype went away and actual great games (The Last of Us) came out. Just saying.

You're wrong on every account.


Aside from TLoU being amazing. Because it was.

Bioshock Infinite's story corrects the failings of the originals narrative, and does so in a way that it's both able to tell its own story, and still be cohesively within the Bioshock universe.



I never use this arguement, but I really think this is truly one of those games people have to "get" to like.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Loved the art style. Hated everything else.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I didn't like the game. I didn't like the way it played or the level design. I didn't like that they stripped out some of the cooler systems. I didn't like the dumb "say a bunch of shit but make no meaningful commentary" story.

Bioshock 1 is the most interesting, being the first.

Bioshock 2 is the best game in the series, purely from a gameplay and design perspective. Which is why I play games.

If I want good sci-fi I'll read a book.

 

[EGM1966]

I liked it but was disappointing that rather than being great, which I thought it could have been it was merely good as the sum of its parts.

It's main flaws were:

• some clear narrative dissonance with gameplay (despite what its creators claim its there and the tone for gameplay does not align)
  
• some clear issues with gameplay itself (too reliant on shooting, enemies that aren't that fun to fight and not enough real use for vigors combined with what should have been interesting elements - skyhook, tears, etc - that ended up as little more than tacked on gimmicks)
  
• some clear issues with handling of infinity and the laboured linking of the setting to Bioshock and Rapture. In short, if you've got infinite variety you can't have a man and a lighthouse in every one, that contradicts. What you would have is an infinite number of universes without a man and a lighthouse and an infinite number of universes with a man and a lighthouse. God bless infinity it really is a mind melting concept.

The real issue it got a bit of a backlash is that it got overly praised by franchise association and many critics getting wowed by the admitedly wonderful artistic design and then TLOU came out and essentially did everything better:

• better, more cohesive narrative
• no narrative dissonance
• better utilization of gameplay mechanics with its world
• better voice work

None of TLOU's accomplishments take away from Infinite in that much of the voice work is good as are elements of the narrative, but TLOU showed in stark relied the gap between Infinite and truly great narrative, voice work, gameplay, etc. hence the sense of backlash.

Even though I'm not convinced it fully works narratively Infinite does have a number of great scenes and the ending(s) did move me.

 

[BlizzKrut]

I didn't like the game. I didn't like the way it played or the level design. I didn't like that they stripped out some of the cooler systems. I didn't like the dumb "say a bunch of shit but make no meaningful commentary" story.

Bioshock 1 is the most interesting, being the first.

Bioshock 2 is the best game in the series, purely from a gameplay and design perspective. Which is why I play games.

If I want good sci-fi I'll read a book.

Are you implying games can't make good sci-fi stories?

 

[HotHamBoy]

Are you implying games can't make good sci-fi stories?

No, I'm saying they usually don't. Kevine Levine can't.

The problem with games as a traditional storytelling medium is that the rhythm of gameplay and game design is at odds with the rhythm of story structure and narrative.

 

[Card Boy]

Amazing game from a story point of view but extremely liner compared to Bioshock 1+2. But the story just had be gripped from the get go and made me play well beyond a normal sitting.

I still don't understand how the Comstock in the world of the Booker we play as knew AD (Anna Dewitt) was the symbol of the False Shepard. Also is Booker secretly a white supremacist?

 

[HotHamBoy]

Amazing game from a story point of view but extremely liner compared to Bioshock 1+2. But the story just had be gripped from the get go and made me play well beyond a normal sitting.

I still don't understand how the Comstock in the world of the Booker we play as knew AD (Anna Dewitt) was the symbol of the False Shepard. Also is Booker secretly a white supremacist?

You have these questions but you think the story is "amazing"?

It's pulp.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The real issue it got a bit of a backlash is that it got overly praised by franchise association and many critics getting wowed by the admitedly wonderful artistic design and then TLOU came out and essentially did everything better:

You don't know the half of it. Don't know how amused i was that both games have the innocent female unfamiliar with the customs of the world being told by the gruff world weary guy how things are, and then the girl dismissing it as dumb right away.

You have one where Elie is looking into a jewlery store remarking about the superfluousness of women dressing up to look pretty before the outbreak, and when Elizabeth is remarking on having separate bathrooms during the segregationist era

 

[Greddleok]

I'm curious as to why public opinion has turned in this one because it's clearly a good game.

Is it? I thought the narrative was hamfisted (especially the racism slant "SEE RACISM CAN GO BOTH WAYS!") and the ending was straight out of the Scifi for Hacks Handbook.

That on top of a below par FPS, and you get a game a lot of people don't like.

 

[BigTnaples]

You have these questions but you think the story is "amazing"?

It's pulp.

What other game does a better job at a video game story than Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite?


While other games have great stories too, Bioshock games wouldn't work as movies or books. They ONLY work as games.

 

[120v]

I still don't understand how the Comstock in the world of the Booker we play as knew AD (Anna Dewitt) was the symbol of the False Shepard. Also is Booker secretly a white supremacist?

i think comstock knew pretty much everything regarding booker via the Luteces

as for the white supremecy thing, there's one reality where booker went on to be a burnout drunk with gambling debts after wounded knee, another where he became donald trump, basically. just like how anybody could be two different people in parallel timelines

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Huge disappointment to me, still not done a replay yet to see if I warm to it any further.

Compared to Bioshock and especially Bioshock 2, the gameplay went from having a huge amount of options at your disposal, to triggering combat arenas with dull, bullet sponge enemies.

- next to no stealth options in Infinite
- tears were nothing like they had been lauded - more or less just ammo caches
- Elizabeth essentially was an ammo supplying sidekick which again was disappointing
- Nothing like the PLANNING that went into Big Daddy battles in the original, or even more so Adam Harvests in Bio 2. Being able to plan out how you wanted to approach an area in Bioshock was almost totally absent in Ininite
- Vigors had nothing on Plasmids. Gears were a poor substitute to Tonics
- Skyrail was initially cool, but really didn't do much for me in terms of it's impact on gameplay
- Lady Comstock ugh
- Songbird was a dreadful disappointment, just a terrible 'boss'

Everything bad about infinite's gameplay came down to triggering these combat areas at some unseen scripted point, it became very much rinse repeat and quite tedious by the end.

The story was actually ok, and the art and setting was great, these were the things that got me to the end.

 

[HotHamBoy]

What other game does a better job at a video game story than Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite?


While other games have great stories too, Bioshock games wouldn't work as movies or books. They ONLY work as games.

That depends on the kind of story you are expecting. Personally, I prefer emergent storytelling in games over attempts to emulate cinema. Also, some of the older JRPGs benefit from being all text because it's kind of like reading a play.

I think purely environmental storytelling is more interesting than big set pieces and plot twists and written characters. Like Journey, for example.

Video games can do that in a way movies and books can't.

 

[Card Boy]

Is Comstock the same as age as Booker? I got the impression from a Voxophone that Comstock messed with same sciency things that ruined his DNA and caused him to age faster.

 

[Inuhanyou]

What other game does a better job at a video game story than Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite?


While other games have great stories too, Bioshock games wouldn't work as movies or books. They ONLY work as games.

Undertale basically went further with that concept than any other game ever has and did it far better.

And also your comparing Bioshock to Infinite as if they are close in quality. That's mistaken.

 

[BigTnaples]

That depends on the kind of story you are expecting. Personally, I prefer emergent storytelling in games over attempts to emulate cinema. Some of the older JRPGs benefit from being all text because it's kind of like reading a play.

I think purely environmental storytelling is more interesting than big set pieces and plot twists and written characters.

Video games can do that in a way movies and books can't.

That's exactly why Bishock does it better IMO.



You can't show rapture in a movie or read about it in a book and have the same effect as EXPERIENCING Rapture.

WYK doesn't work in or a movie, that twist is powerful because of the interactive nature a a video game.


The Last of Us has an amazing story and amazing gameplay, but the story could work pretty well in a movie or a game.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Undertale basically went further with that concept than any other game ever has and did it far better.

And also your comparing Bioshock to Infinite as if they are close in quality. That's mistaken.

Storytelling through gameplay mechanics and player expectation is incredibly fascinating.

I really enjoyed what Spec Ops: The Line was doing.

Honestly, Portal 1 and 2 are probably some of the greatest works of videogame "literature."

That's exactly why Bishock does it better IMO.



You can't show rapture in a movie or read about it in a book and have the same effect as EXPERIENCING Rapture.

WYK doesn't work in or a movie, that twist is powerful because of the interactive nature a a video game.


The Last of Us has an amazing story and amazing gameplay, but the story could work pretty well in a movie or a game.

But that's the strongest part of the game. Not the actual plot, or even the gameplay. And Infinite never achieves that with the city in the clouds. I never felt immersed in that place or drawn in by the environment.

 

[BlizzKrut]

Huge disappointment to me, still not done a replay yet to see if I warm to it any further.

Compared to Bioshock and especially Bioshock 2, the gameplay went from having a huge amount of options at your disposal, to triggering combat arenas with dull, bullet sponge enemies.

- next to no stealth options in Infinite
- tears were nothing like they had been lauded - more or less just ammo caches
- Elizabeth essentially was an ammo supplying sidekick which again was disappointing
- Nothing like the PLANNING that went into Big Daddy battles in the original, or even more so Adam Harvests in Bio 2. Being able to plan out how you wanted to approach an area in Bioshock was almost totally absent in Ininite
- Vigors had nothing on Plasmids. Gifts were a poor substitute to Tonics
- Skyrail was initially cool, but really didn't do much for me in terms of it's impact on gameplay
- Lady Comstock ugh
- Songbird was a dreadful disappointment, just a terrible 'boss'

Everything bad about infinite's gameplay came down to triggering these combat areas at some unseen scripted point, it became very much rinse repeat and quite tedious by the end.

The story was actually ok, and the art and setting was great, these were the things that got me to the end.

How are they any different? If anything they're much more fun to use.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

But that's the strongest part of the game. Not the actual plot, or even the gameplay. And Infinite never achieves that with the city in the clouds. I never felt immersed in that place or drawn in by the environment.

It says a lot that my favourite part of Infinite was the return to Rapture. Colombia simply doesn't come close.

But for me I think that maybe that as because the repetetive gameplay did not enable such a compelling experience. Sum of the parts and all that.

 

[Vintage]

I really liked it. Music, visuals and story is just great.

Combat was ok, a bit too bullet-spongy. Upgrades didn't seem to matter that much.

My biggest complaint is level design: the created world is not a believable place that people would live in.
For comparison, remember original Bioshock: levels were complex, representing natural living quarters for people - halls, rooms, furniture in them are placed like in real home, their connectivity also makes sense. Enemies can be found everywhere even where you don't expect them. Exploration was tense an interesting because you didn't know what you'll find or what will happen in an area you visit the second time. Big Daddys were roaming from room to room as they should instead of having pre-set positions.
Infinite, on the other hand, drops level design in favour of gameplay. It would be fine if gunplay was great, but it isn't.
Almost all areas in the game can be split into two categories: story areas and combat areas. Story ones are often small, dense, but nothing apart from dialogue and exploration happens there. These are good and believable, but removes any suspense that combat can break out there.
Then there's huge open areas with rails and tear points, which indicates that there's nothing apart combat. Just by entering one of those you know that soon a bunch of enemies will spawn. Again, no suspense. Believable design completely disappears here. Drops too high for normal every-day use, platform that cannot be reached naturally, whole areas that serve no purpose apart from being used for combat.

I kinda blame 2K for some of Infinite's problems. It feels like Irrational were pushed to make the game streamlined and more appealing to action CoD crowd.

 

[Bedameister]

Among of the top five games I've ever played. Especially the second Burial at Sea DLC.
Can't wait to play this again with the Bioshock Collection.
Elizabeth is such an amazing character. There are so many parts of this game that give me the chills just thinking about them.

 

[Akainu]

The story fell apart as soon as you jump through the first few portals. They tried to build up these interesting other-worlds, but then nothing in them is actually that intriguing.

The game was just not very good overall.

Everything lost all meaning when they were no longer in their own world. And that final level? *shivers* Dumped the game and never looked back.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

How are they any different? If anything they're much more fun to use.

First, Plasmids are much better integrated into the game fiction. Then you can buy them
and choose which Plasmids you want where Vigors are story driven.

I suppose it depends on your playstyle, but i played the original Bioshock's quite stealthily / and used Security Expert and Hypnotise a lot - for me there were no Vigors that really felt like those - although that could be down again to the arena combat type approach they had in Infinite.

Tonics vs Gear again were much more flexibility in Tonics to alter and adapt to a playstyle - e.g. Drill Specialist tonic in Bio 2. Gear in Infinite were pretty much just combat buffs across the board.

So I suppose I am more saying that the repetitive arena combat in Infinite did not really lend itself to making Vigors & Gear usable in different playstyles, because Infinite didn't really cater to different playstyles at all.

 

[HotHamBoy]

How are they any different? If anything they're much more fun to use.

They are all interchangeable. Playing with Plasmids was like creating a build, especially in 2. Vigors all basically had the same effect, and the one that pushed enemies over edges just broke the combat design.

My favorite thing about BS2 was making a dude who just hacked and hypnotized everything so I rarely had to fight my own battles. That was cool.

The guns in Infinite, too. Man. It was pointless to upgrade most guns knowing you could never rely on having them.