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[Head of Vengarl]

I've been meaning to read Dune for quite some time now, and recently I signed up for the trial at Audible which let me download 1 free audiobook. I chose Dune, which was great considering the audiobook costs forty-eight fucking dollars. The voicework was really good though, so I guess I understand.

Spoiler

But seriously I never would have bought a $48 audiobook.

But anyway, Dune:

An overall fantastic novel. I absolutely love it when an author is good at world building, and Herbert was great at it. I was able to imagine myself walking around on this desert planet, I could visualize the sand dunes, the rocky hills that Paul and Jessica traversed on their journey, the giant sand worms, and all that good stuff. Not only that, but Herbert was able to give the reader a glimpse of the novel's universe without making the story convoluted or confusing. He teases us with a keyhole viewing of the mysterious Spacing Guild and the Bene Gesserits, and the huge kingdom that the Houses belong to. The combat was great; I like how this novel takes place way into the future but people fight mostly with blades instead of guns. The Fremen and Sardaukar were badass. Thufir Hawat was basically Master Roshi mixed with Altaïr and a supercomputer. I went into the novel with the knowledge that this was a pretty groundbreaking story in 1965, as it mixed sci-fi and fantasy. It gave me even more appreciation for Dune, because you have to give props to creators of strikingly original material, especially when it becomes the inspiration for later works (I'm looking at you, Tremors).

I do have a couple complaints though. The biggest one is that I felt the ending was rushed. Most of the novel feels like a setup for this epic battle, not just between Paul and the Harkonnens, but between Paul and the whole empire. And then all the sudden in the last two chapters, the emperor and the Harkonnens suddenly launch this huge assault on Arrakis, Paul's Fremen army wipes the floor with them, Paul kills Feyd-Rautha in a knife battle (which was awesome), and becomes the new emperor. The end. I was just expecting... more.

My other complaint is more a fault of my own tastes, but I wish there had been more combat. I just really enjoyed the battle scenes in the book and would have loved more of it. Especially in the final battle. Or the suicide raid that Duke Leto ordered on the Harkonnen's home planet that destroyed their melange stockpile — come on Herbert, that sounded awesome! Instead we only get a passing reference to it by the Baron.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this novel. Dune was great and I highly recommend it if you haven't read it yet.

 

[joelseph]

Classic. I try and read it every few years. You should read it!

 

[obin_gam]

It's slow as fuck in the middle imo.
It feels like a choir to read it just so you can start with the sequels sometime.

 

[Sinatar]

The end. I was just expecting... more.

Well you're in luck, Herbert wrote 5 more Dune novels.

Don't read the new ones by his son though, they are absolute drek.

 

[Noks415]

I just finished Dune and Dune Messiah. I'm starting Children of Dune which a lot of people say is the best one. Also if anyone else is thinking of jumping on the Dune wagon, I recommend the leather bound Barnes and Noble edition.

 

[Professor Chaos]

The only thing I dislike about Dune is that I can't buy into the fact that you have a space faring empire that seem to have reverted back to a quasi feudal existence. Granted, this may addressed in the other books how/why this came to be, but I always found it a bit jarring.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Probably my favorite book of all time. The second book is a quick read and almost reads as an epilogue of sorts. I also really loved Children of Dune. People love God Emperor, but I found it a slog to get through. Chapter House is, well, I don't know. I think Frank was taking acid when he wrote that one.

Also, avoid the new books like the plague. The House books aren't that bad and Bulterian Jihad is serviceable, but the mainline sequels are dreadful. It's like they took inspiration from Transformers for some reason. The last book also completely retcons the original Dune and IMO kind of ruins it.

 

[bionic77]

I would stop at God Emperor if you decide to go further.

And then as the previous posters already said it gets worse when his half wit son completes it.

 

[mrbagdt]

Many have tried.

Tried and failed?

Tried... and died...

 

[bionic77]

The only thing I dislike about Dune is that I can't buy into the fact that you have a space faring empire that seem to have reverted back to a quasi feudal existence. Granted, this may addressed in the other books how/why this came to be, but I always found it a bit jarring.

But they can only navigate space with the spice that comes from only one place in the universe. They explain that in the first book.

 

[joelseph]

If you are into comics and want something 'similar' with extreme organic scifi check out

the new release of Prophet

 

[Dresden]

The only thing I dislike about Dune is that I can't buy into the fact that you have a space faring empire that seem to have reverted back to a quasi feudal existence. Granted, this may addressed in the other books how/why this came to be, but I always found it a bit jarring.

They can't use robots or computers because of the Jihad. Obviously it set them back quite a bit, toss in the resource choke of spice and how navigation is handled by a small limited sect of possibly inhuman navigators and I feel like it made sense, mostly.

 

[Noks415]

The only thing I dislike about Dune is that I can't buy into the fact that you have a space faring empire that seem to have reverted back to a quasi feudal existence. Granted, this may addressed in the other books how/why this came to be, but I always found it a bit jarring.

I felt the same way, but there is actually a somewhat reasonable explanation: Butlerian Jihad. Essentially it was Dune 's version of the judgment day. Huge war against AI/machines. It was deemed that if we let AI evolve there would always be this eventual build up to war. So all machines past a certain point of sophistication are banned. In the early days after the Jihad people where killed for owning calculators. This whole Jihad happened like 10 thousand years before Dune starts

 

[Professor Chaos]

But they can only navigate space with the spice that comes from only one place in the universe. They explain that in the first book.

This can't be the whole story unless the humans in the world of Dune originated on Arakis. But I've only read Dune and know next to nothing about the larger back story of the universe.

 

[bionic77]

This can't be the whole story unless the humans in the world of Dune originated on Arakis. But I've only read Dune and know next to nothing about the larger back story of the universe.

See the posts that followed mine.

I haven't read the book in years but I think they explained that part in the first book as well. It is a little hard to get that all in the first read though because Herbert just throws you in the middle of all this shit and the names alone can be daunting.

 

[Professor Chaos]

They can't use robots or computers because of the Jihad. Obviously it set them back quite a bit, toss in the resource choke of spice and how navigation is handled by a small limited sect of possibly inhuman navigators and I feel like it made sense, mostly.

I felt the same way, but there is actually a somewhat reasonable explanation: Butlerian Jihad. Essentially it was Dune 's version of the judgment day. Huge war against AI/machines. It was deemed that if we let AI evolve there would always be this eventual build up to war. So all machines past a certain point of sophistication are banned. In the early days after the Jihad people where killed for owning calculators. This whole Jihad happened like 10 thousand years before Dune starts

I'm still not clear on if the humans had space faring vessels during the Butlerian Jihad and didn't destroy them afterwards (because there was no danger of them having sentience) or that they did destroy them and they began again colonizing worlds from Arakis? Is this ever made clear? Sorry, It has been a while since I read it.

 

[bionic77]

I'm still not clear on if the humans had space faring vessels during the Butlerian Jihad and didn't destroy them afterwards (because there was no danger of them having sentience) or that they did destroy them and they began again colonizing worlds from Arakis? Is this ever made clear? Sorry, It has been a while since I read it.

I think it was pretty vague before the battle of Corinno (spelling?) which ended with the Emperor, Bene Gesserit and the Guild running things the way they were being run at the time of Dune.

Not sure how things were before that. I think the only answer is the shitty books written by his kid.

 

[Noks415]

I'm still not clear on if the humans had space faring vessels during the Butlerian Jihad and didn't destroy them afterwards (because there was no danger of them having sentience) or that they did destroy them and they began again colonizing worlds from Arakis? Is this ever made clear? Sorry, It has been a while since I read it.

None of this is explained in the novel, I downloaded a copy of the out of print Dune encyclopedia. Space travel before the Jihad required these crazy calculations and use of way stations that were controlled by the use of A I. The Jihad destroyed all of this, so the was no far space travel for a while because it was basically impossible. This gave rise to the spacing guild which had steersman(humans that consumed so much melange that it allowed them act a navigational computer but they were also horribly mutated)

 

[Sub_Level]

I've seen the movie multiple times but haven't read the book to completion once.

 

[Professor Chaos]

I think it was pretty vague before the battle of Corinno (spelling?) which ended with the Emperor, Bene Gesserit and the Guild running things the way they were being run at the time of Dune.

Not sure how things were before that. I think the only answer is the shitty books written by his kid.

Yeah, I've been told to stay clear of them like the plague.

None of this is explained in the novel, I downloaded a copy of the out of print Dune encyclopedia. Space travel before the Jihad required these crazy calculations and use of way stations that were controlled by the use of A I. The Jihad destroyed all of this, so the was no far space travel for a while because it was basically impossible. This gave rise to the spacing guild which had steersman(humans that consumed so much melange that it allowed them act a navigational computer but they were also horribly mutated)

Thanks. That all sounds pretty interesting, I might dive into the Dune sequels at some point. While I don't think Frank Herbert was a particularly good writer, he sure had a lot of interesting ideas.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Well you're in luck, Herbert wrote 5 more Dune novels.

Don't read the new ones by his son though, they are absolute drek.

I don't really have much interest in reading the sequels for some reason, so I went to Wiki and read the summaries of the novels. It sounds pretty interesting but it also sound like shit starts getting really weird

Spoiler

like Paul's son turning into a sand worm, and Duncan Idaho being reincarnated... wut.

Classic. I try and read it every few years. You should read it!

Maybe I will, one day. I have found that I prefer listening to reading. I have a really shitty attention span so when I read I usually have to re-read every other paragraph because I'll space out and won't absorb the words. For some reason when I listen to podcasts/audiobooks this happens a lot less.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I'm still not clear on if the humans had space faring vessels during the Butlerian Jihad and didn't destroy them afterwards (because there was no danger of them having sentience) or that they did destroy them and they began again colonizing worlds from Arakis? Is this ever made clear? Sorry, It has been a while since I read it.

Basically, the Zensunni wanderers, who later became the Fremen, were the first to arrive on Dune. In the original canon they essentially were religious zealots that wandered from planet to planet until they decided to settle on Dune. In the later books (the crappy ones written by Frank's son) they are actually slaves and they are able to escape to Arrakis where they find freedom. I read it years ago, but I think the character that first discovers the ability to fold space takes them to Dune or something. Basically think like Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt, but in this case they arrive at Dune.

I'm pretty sure humans had space faring vessels during the Bulterian Jihad. After the Jihad, they weren't allowed to have computers on ships. I believe this is how the Mentats came to be, since they are like human computers capable of doing advanced calculations. There's also this subplot in the later books about how the Face Dancers? create or try to create synthetic spice or something.

 

[Dresden]

The only thing I remember about the later books is

Spoiler

Leto turning into a giant sandworm,

which is weird and thus totally cool.

 

[Professor Chaos]

Basically, the Zensunni wanderers, who later became the Fremen, were the first to arrive on Dune. In the original canon they essentially were religious zealots that wandered from planet to planet until they decided to settle on Dune. In the later books they are actually slaves and they are able to escape to Arrakis where they find freedom. I read it years ago, but I think the character that first discovers the ability to fold space takes them to Dune or something. Basically think like Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt, but in this case they arrive at Dune.

I'm pretty sure humans had space faring vessels during the Bulterian Jihad. After the Jihad, they weren't allowed to have computers on ships. I believe this is how the Mentats came to be, since they are like human computers capable of doing advanced calculations. There's also this subplot in the later books about how the Face Dancers? create or try to create synthetic spice or something.

You are a scholar and have piqued my interest even more.

The only thing I remember about the later books is

Spoiler

Leto turning into a giant sandworm,

which is weird and thus totally cool.

Right, that settles it, I'm going to have to read the sequels.

 

[BloodMoney]

It is certainly a classic. I particularly enjoy when

Spoiler

they escape to the desert & first encounter the Fremen

 

[bionic77]

The only thing I remember about the later books is

Spoiler

Leto turning into a giant sandworm,

which is weird and thus totally cool.

That is nothing compared to the

Spoiler

space whores that come back to wreck the Dune universe in the 5th and 6th books. I really hated those books, but the character Miles Teg was really awesome.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Book starts off slow but soon becomes very engaging. Really loved it.

Read Dune Messiah after and thought it was okay. Felt like the lost chapters of Dune rather than its own powerful story. Burned out on the characters/story after that and I don't care to revisit them anytime soon.

 

[Sinatar]

I don't really have much interest in reading the sequels for some reason, so I went to Wiki and read the summaries of the novels. It sounds pretty interesting but it also sound like shit starts getting really weird

Spoiler

like Paul's son turning into a sand worm, and Duncan Idaho being reincarnated... wut.

Oh they are *all* kinds of crazy. Each book gets more and more bizarre. It's a good bizarre though. Reading Chapterhouse Dune is like going on a wild acid trip.

 

[GillianSeed79]

That is nothing compared to the

Spoiler

space whores that come back to wreck the Dune universe in the 5th and 6th books. I really hated those books, but the character Miles Teg was really awesome.

That and the whole

Spoiler

In order to unlock a clone's original memories, the space whores have crazy, wild sex with the person or something. The later books were definitely more...sexual if you will, which was kind odd when I was reading them as a like 15 year old back in the day

 

[NekoFever]

I have a really shitty attention span so when I read I usually have to re-read every other paragraph because I'll space out and won't absorb the words. For some reason when I listen to podcasts/audiobooks this happens a lot less.

I'm exactly the opposite. I'll space out listening to something and have to wind it back 15 minutes because I have no idea what they're talking about. Reading a book monopolises my attention so I can't ignore it.

I read Dune last year and just today started on Messiah. It really does seem like a quick prologue because I sat down for half an hour and was already 8% of the way through.

 

[The Boat]

Loved the book need to read the other ones. At first I wasn't sold on the writing, but I quickly got hooked.

Mixed feelings about the ending though.

 

[Zaphod]

I finally started reading this on vacation and have been engrossed from the start. It may have helped that I love the movie and have watched it at least 10 times.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I'm exactly the opposite. I'll space out listening to something and have to wind it back 15 minutes because I have no idea what they're talking about. Reading a book monopolises my attention so I can't ignore it.

I read Dune last year and just today started on Messiah. It really does seem like a quick prologue because I sat down for half an hour and was already 8% of the way through.

We're the same. Audiobooks put me to sleep.

Also yeah Messiah is super short.

I'll always love the first Dune. They're all pretty good.

Everyone hates his kid's books, and yeah they're not great (I actually haven't read most of them, just some of the house books and I wanted to get to the second prequel trilogy where you had the jihad and shit) but... yeah they're not that great. One day I might just force myself through them. It's not like they can ruin the first ones for me.

Also I really like the movie, and as long as you're not expecting something particularly close to the book, but something really strange and kind of goofy you should like it as well. If you want something way closer to the novel pick up that sci fi miniseries which is okay.

 

[danmaku]

I have the opposite opinion, lol. I thought the combat wasn't very interesting and wished there was more room for politics and setting, as the planet Arrakis is by far the most interesting "character".

I have to give credit to Herbert, though, as he was great with the character of Paul. I expected to hate him, as he's basically set to become a god and this means an unlikable asshole who's always right about everything. But Herbert neatly avoids that by making his superhuman powers very risky and hard to use, and at first he's depicted as overwhelmed by his gigantic destiny. He tries to show how hard it is to wield such power, and to a certain extent he succeeds.

 

[bionic77]

That and the whole

Spoiler

In order to unlock a clone's original memories, the space whores have crazy, wild sex with the person or something. The later books were definitely more...sexual if you will, which was kind odd when I was reading them as a like 15 year old back in the day

Not only was that weird but

Spoiler

it was even more weird that the only way to combat the space whores magic pussy was with the even superior magic dick of the clone of Duncan.

That sounds crazy typing that but that was a major plot point.

Spoiler

Didn't the whores burn down a few planets because of their fear of the mighty penis?

It was just too fucking weird for me and had no relation to anything that happened in the first books. I never recommend the last 2 books to anyone.

 

[FStop7]

One of my all time favorite books.

The biggest flaw, IMO, is the character of Count Fenring.

He's built up over the course of the book as an invincible killer, the ace in the hole. And then when ordered to kill Paul he doesn't... because eh, he doesn't wanna.

Lame.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Btw, did anyone think the Fremen were heavily based on Pashtun people? The whole time I was reading Dune I was thinking of a sandy, hellish version of Afghanistan.

During Paul and Jessica's journey through the desert, this is basically how I pictured the terrain:

Except with sand dunes at the base of the rocky mountains. *Edit: And with more sand on the mountains, not to mention the absence of any brush.

 

[The Albatross]

The audiobook of Dune was very good, but I forget if it was Dune or Dune II where they change up the stupid narrators several times in the book... Or if some chapters are dramatic renditions and some aren't. Whichever one that was, they really ruined the book. At one point, the voice of the main bad guy, I forget who it is now, became another character who you were sympathetic to ... And it was just a mess.

 

[UrokeJoe]

One of my favorite Christmas moments was getting the first book and The Unforgettable Fire on CD. The 80's...

 

[Yamauchi]

I always liked the idea of the Butlerian Jihad. Frank painted it as a kind of movement in which mankind had realized its utter dependency on machines, especially intelligent ones, and moved against them. Of course Brian took the idea and stripped it of any subtlety, turning it into a massive war of survival between human-like robots and humanity.

Btw, if you like Dune, you might try reading his WorShip novels at some point. I thoroughly enjoyed both The Jesus Incident and The Lazarus Effect.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

The audiobook of Dune was very good, but I forget if it was Dune or Dune II where they change up the stupid narrators several times in the book... Or if some chapters are dramatic renditions and some aren't. Whichever one that was, they really ruined the book. At one point, the voice of the main bad guy, I forget who it is now, became another character who you were sympathetic to ... And it was just a mess.

That was the Dune audiobook, the one I mentioned in the OP. I'm really glad I read the reviews before starting it, because I like how one guy described it:

There were some complaints about the changing of accents or voices. I think of this in these terms. The normal narrator goes along telling you the story, and then at times there is an 'enhanced' scene, a scene where the voices are really acted out, usually with several different voice actors. I think of this as a picture in a book, this enhanced scene has a different set of voices because of the change in actors, but at these times you are also sucked into the story a bit more. Eventually the enhanced scene ends and the story is passed back to the standard narrator. As for the sound effects and the music, I think they all add to the richness of the story. I was never distracted from the story because of them. When I first heard the change between the 'enhanced' scenes and the standard narration, I was a little confused, but I quickly recognized the extra enjoyment I got from these enhanced scenes, and looked at them as a positive factor rather than seeing them as a negative. If I had known, going into the recording that it happened this way, I don't think I would have been confused at all. I think if you go into this thinking that the story was recorded with an excellent narrator, then the producers went back and 'enhanced' certain scenes for your enjoyment, you will be able to fully appreciate the wonderfulness of this recording.

So I went in totally expecting it. And I enjoyed it. Though some of the voices were a lot better than others... I thought Duke Leto and Gurney Halleck's voices were kinda lame. But Paul, Thifir Hawat, and the Baron Harkonnen had awesome voices IMO. And the main narrator was excellent.

 

[hal9001]

Nvm

 

[Arkanius]

Feyd Rautha was a blazing flame

(I only read the first two books. Fucking loved them)

 

[ixix]

One of my all time favorite books.

The biggest flaw, IMO, is the character of Count Fenring.

He's built up over the course of the book as an invincible killer, the ace in the hole. And then when ordered to kill Paul he doesn't... because eh, he doesn't wanna.

Lame.

It's not so much that he doesn't want to; it's more that he was almost the kwisatz haderach, and he wants to see how far Paul can take his whole messiah-dom schtick in a sort of "that could've been me" sense.

He's also there to make it abundantly clear that there are things beyond Paul's comprehension, and the book is pretty blatant about the fact that Fenring could've killed Paul on the spot if he'd so desired. It turns the ending into a Pyrrhic victory of sorts: Paul's the new emperor, but he's utterly failed to prevent the Jihad that will be waged in his name that he's been trying to avoid the entire book, and his success ultimately hinged entirely on someone whose existence he was entirely unaware of deciding for reasons inscrutable to anybody else to let him just have the win even though it would've been entirely within his power to stop him dead in his tracks at the eleventh hour.

I really like the ending to Dune, and Fenring's a big part of why it's so good. Paul wins handily by all outward appearances, but he knows in his heart that he just fucked up, and he fucked up bad, which basically serves as the whole set-up for the later books.

 

[Draconian]

Awesome novel. I can't be the only one here whose favorite character was Gurney Halleck can I? He and his baliset playing were awesome.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Feyd Rautha was a blazing flame

(I only read the first two books. Fucking loved them)

Even though it's an Anime pic, your image is much closer to how I envisioned him, when compared to the movie images I saw on Google:

Seriously, what the fuck is that shit?

I actually imagined the Harkonnens as being like the "Persians" from 300. Take Xerxes:

And add like 500 pounds and that's how I imagined the Baron Harkonnen.

I must have had 300 on my mind during this book because I also imagined Jessica as a slightly tanner version of Queen Gorgo:

 

[Arksy]

I'm thinking about reading Dune as my first book in the new year.

I just read Hyperion: Cantos which I was told was brilliant. It was pretty good I guess, I love the framing stories.

The only issue with the book is that it had

Spoiler

a terrible ending. Although The Consul's story was fantastic.

Hopefully Dune is better.

 

[Sub_Level]

Seriously, what the fuck is that shit?

Did you just call Sting shit?

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Did you just call Sting shit?

Yes. Yes I did.

 

[Seigyoku]

Oh Dune.

I have such a love/hate relationship with you.

Loved the David Lynch movie as a kid. Didn't read the book till college. LOVED IT. Sure Herbert has a... special writing style that can get a little grating at times, but the universe was so amazing, and JESSICA JESSICA JESSICA. And that ending!

So I picked up Dune Messiah. And then threw it against the wall. It doesn't help that it is so short compared to Dune, and lacks the glossary in the back that served the first book well, while still throwing a zillion new terms at you. HATED IT. Started Children of Dune, but UGH, my hatred from reading Dune Messiah was still so strong it just wasn't happening.

FF'd some years later and that-network-that-is-dead-to-me makes a mini-series of Dune. Which I watch and enjoy. They make the sequel which combines Messiah and Children. I figure, I should really go finish Children of Dune. So I do! And it was great! All is happy again let's read God Emperor of Dune...

NONONONONONO WHAT IS THIS UGH. Think I made it a quarter of the way through?

For reasons that I will never know, I then read the first set of prequel novels as they came out. I rather enjoyed them. Were they GOOD? Not really. Did the prose even VAGUELY resemble Herbert's? Nope! But they were a fun read.

Got Butlerian Jihad and... about a third of the way in I gave up and read the ending. Rolled my eyes. Oddly I do believe I have the rest of that trilogy in hardback. I'm not sure why.

I have since spoiled myself rotten for the original books, and ever so often I think "Maybe I can make it through God Emperor now?" And I probably can. But I'll likely then pick up Heretics in that mad high and then scream OH COME ON and fling that book against the wall.

Still do love that movie.