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[liquidtmd]

Your hours' analogy should be more like months.

MH370 has no survivors. There is no magical floating boat for 3 years waiting to be found on some island.

What? They would have died within hours of exposure even if they'd survived impact.

I'm saying they are 100% dead but in the absence of bodies and the plane, we don't know about the precise circumstance so my only point was to back up the criticism of the 'definitely the pilot that did it, case closed'

 

[Evolution of Metal]

What is the cost of continuing the search vs the value of future accidents it could possibly prevent and the closure it could provide the families? There's little guarantee at all that they'll manage to find anything after so much time has passed.

This discussion is: Empathy vs Utilitarianism

The true answer is somewhere in the middle, but the tone of this thread makes it impossible to discuss how much resources should be invested into something which has mostly a moral value for the families.

What? They would have died within hours of exposure even if they'd survived impact.

I see.

 

[andythinkpad]

There are still alot of dead climber bodies on the road to the summit of Everest because it costs incredible amount of money to bring a bodies down. It comes down to the matter of the Malaysian government can't foot the survey cost anymore.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

We dont know why it crashed. There could be a design flaw sitting in every other version of the plane that crashed that we dont know about. That's why its important to find it still.

 

[andythinkpad]

We dont know why it crashed. There could be a design flaw sitting in every other version of the plane that crashed that we dont know about. That's why its important to find it still.

Give me a fucking break, the pilot practice that particular course that flight the plane to the middle of nowhere in his home flight simulation. Guy planned the suicide trip and took 200+ people with him.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

We dont know why it crashed. There could be a design flaw sitting in every other version of the plane that crashed that we dont know about. That's why its important to find it still.

There's been around 1500 777's. Considering the amount of flight hours these planes have (coupled with the rigorous engineering scrutiny and testing these plane designs would have received), I highly doubt that there's a design flaw consistently built into each 777, let alone every version of each 7 series, which are some of the most popular passenger and freighter plane types in the world.

If they were looking to a physical failure of some component as the catalyst for the crash (which is likely a suicide, anyway), they'd likely be looking for issues like structural or instrument failure/degradation due to improper maintenance or something similar, not a design flaw.

 

[danowat]

Give me a fucking break, the pilot practice that particular course that flight the plane to the middle of nowhere in his home flight simulation. Guy planned the suicide trip and took 200+ people with him.

And again, you say this like it's fact, when it isn't (yet at least).

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

Give me a fucking break, the pilot practice that particular course that flight the plane to the middle of nowhere in his home flight simulation. Guy planned the suicide trip and took 200+ people with him.

I agree with this theory but I'm more interested to know how he managed to "disable" the rest of the crew.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I agree with this theory but I'm more interested to know how he managed to "disable" the rest of the crew.

Would you have to? I don't have time right now to research the cockpit door on a 777, but couldn't you lock it?

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Give me a fucking break, the pilot practice that particular course that flight the plane to the middle of nowhere in his home flight simulation. Guy planned the suicide trip and took 200+ people with him.

There's been around 1500 777's. Considering the amount of flight hours these planes have (coupled with the rigorous engineering scrutiny and testing these plane designs would have received), I highly doubt that there's a design flaw consistently built into each 777, let alone every version of each 7 series, which are some of the most popular passenger and freighter plane types in the world.

Again there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate either of your claims. If you will look into crash history you will see many examples such as the tail falling off a plane 30 years after a faulty repair to the tail section that passed MANY inspections. Engineering is not flawless and I am speaking as an engineer who works on customer returns almost daily. There are always going to be flaws which are mostly harmless but could easily become fatal in the right circumstances.

 

[andythinkpad]

And again, you say this like it's fact, when it isn't (yet at least).

What you expect to discover a recorded suicide note from the pilot under his bed 10 years from now? That's all the evidences you will ever going to collect for this case.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Again there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate either of your claims.

What claim? My claim that I personally find it highly doubtful that there is a consistently implemented design flaw into every 7 series Boeing plane currently being utilised and that flaw has yet to surface?

That's being ridiculous. Why would you even assume that tens of thousands of 7 series planes may have the same issue, without anyone knowing, and that the error will be discovered from a (likely) blasted apart, heavily degraded fuselage?

 

[danowat]

Would you have to? I don't have time right now to research the cockpit door on a 777, but couldn't you lock it?

He could do the same as the Germanwings pilot did.

What you expect to discover a recorded suicide note from the pilot under his bed 10 years from now? That's all the evidences you will ever going to collect for this case.

No, but you need a bit more evidence than some circumstantial evidence that he practiced a similar route (among thousands of others) on his home simulator.

It might be what happen, it might not, but until such a time that it's proven, it's just one of 5 theories.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

What claim? My claim that I personally find it highly doubtful that there is a consistently implemented design flaw into every 7 series Boeing plane currently being utilised and that flaw has yet to surface?

Yes. In my industry we shoot for what we called 0 dppm (defective parts per million) for automotive and high reliability products. But the true industry failure rate is really closer to 1-2 dppm. The 7 series is actually very safe (hull losses only occurred in the past 2-3 years with the one that crash landed in CA and the downing in Ukraine if I recall correctly). It's just really wrong to assume that anything will never fail because it hasn't yet. I would rather err on the side of caution and confirm this was suicide than speculate and watch a 777 go down for an unknown reason that we could have analyzed.

That's being ridiculous. Why would you even assume that tens of thousands of 7 series planes may have the same issue, without anyone knowing, and that the error will be discovered from a (likely) blasted apart, heavily degraded fuselage?

I strongly encourage you to watch/read some NTTB reports on plane investigation. Most of the time they are able to make a fairly reasonable conclusion on the cause of the crash from a variety of techniques.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

It's just really wrong to assume that anything will never fail because it hasn't yet.

Agreed, that's why I didn't say it was impossible and why I instead said I was highly doubtful, which I don't think is an unreasonable stance to have.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Agreed, that's why I didn't say it was impossible and why I instead said I was highly doubtful.

Okay understandable. But for example when I work with my customers I can't tell them "it's highly doubtful" and not show proof (such as an oscilloscope plot of the failing waveforms). We should always provide the best explanation backed by evidence/investigation in engineering.

 

[TakeItSlowDude]

We dont know why it crashed. There could be a design flaw sitting in every other version of the plane that crashed that we dont know about. That's why its important to find it still.

This. The flaw could be part of something that will be transferred from the 777 to the upcoming 777x, would be useful catching it before the 777x goes into production. It took 14 years to catch the flaw with the 777 using Trent engines that existed in the fuel heat exchanger, luckily it did not result in fatalities and was subsequently redesigned.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I know it's a naive POV, but it's unbelievable to me that we do not have the tracking technology in 2017 to locate a lost vessel of any variety. We have GPS satellites that know exactly where I am standing at all times, but something like an airplane can simply disappear forever. The entire machine, and everyone on it, vanishes without a trace and the best we can do is mark where it diverted from its course.

It makes me pull at my hair because I can't believe this still happens. It's tragic.

 

[danowat]

I know it's a naive POV, but it's unbelievable to me that we do not have the tracking technology in 2017 to locate a lost vessel of any variety. We have GPS satellites that know exactly where I am standing at all times, but something like an airplane can simply disappear forever. The entire machine, and everyone on it, vanishes without a trace and the best we can do is mark where it diverted from its course.

It makes me pull at my hair because I can't believe this still happens. It's tragic.

The world, in particular the ocean, is a MASSIVE place, it's a proper needle in a haystack search, especially when they don't really know where it is.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

We dont know why it crashed. There could be a design flaw sitting in every other version of the plane that crashed that we dont know about. That's why its important to find it still.

Given that years have passed and no other planes have crashed, how does this make sense? Whatever this flaw may be, it's rare almost to the point of non-existence.

 

[danowat]

Given that years have passed and no other planes have crashed, how does this make sense?

Because there could be a specific set of circumstances that lead to it happening, that may not have been repeated yet.

Any point of failure, no matter how rare, is serious.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Because there could be a specific set of circumstances that lead to it happening, that may not have been repeated yet.

Any point of failure, no matter how rare, is serious.

Think about what you're saying. You're willing to chase the chance that there was a flaw, that itself was insanely rare, in the hopes of finding a solution to something which may never even happen again. From an economic standpoint, it really doesn't make sense.

 

[TakeItSlowDude]

I know it's a naive POV, but it's unbelievable to me that we do not have the tracking technology in 2017 to locate a lost vessel of any variety. We have GPS satellites that know exactly where I am standing at all times, but something like an airplane can simply disappear forever. The entire machine, and everyone on it, vanishes without a trace and the best we can do is mark where it diverted from its course.

It makes me pull at my hair because I can't believe this still happens. It's tragic.

GPS satellites don't know where you are, your receiver does a calculation based upon the signal received from multiple satellites to determine your position. GPS tracking requires an uplink, airplanes should have GPS tracking with 100% global coverage very soon with the deployment of the Iridium Next satellite constellation.

 

[danowat]

Check out the second sentence I added.

Like I said, no matter how rare, any potential point of failure is a serious business.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Like I said, no matter how rare, any potential point of failure is a serious business.

This isn't really how the world works though. The planes you ride in could be made safer but the marginal benefit of 1% increase in safety doesn't make sense when compared with the 50% added cost.

 

[danowat]

This isn't really how the world works though. The planes you ride in could be made safer but the marginal benefit of 1% increase in safety doesn't make sense when compared with the 50% added cost.

I work in engineering, some of it aeronautical, and I disagree, but let's leave it there.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

This isn't really how the world works though. The planes you ride in could be made safer but the marginal benefit of 1% increase in safety doesn't make sense when compared with the 50% added cost.

What you are describing is fine for COMMERCIAL products (aka phones and tv's). For high reliability, aerospace or automotive 1% failure would correspond to a dppm of 10,000 which is even unacceptable for commercial (200 dppm is typical). Again, we regulate stuff that is non-commercial much more strictly for many reasons. And btw, some of these parts get upwards of 3-10 different test insertions at my company, then maybe another 3-10 at various temperatures before the system is shipped. These products typically cost anywhere from 100-10000% more than their commercial counterpart. So actually, it is worth the added cost.

Source: I am a product/test engineer in semiconductors.

Given that years have passed and no other planes have crashed, how does this make sense? Whatever this flaw may be, it's rare almost to the point of non-existence.

Companies make design changes all the time on things that have been released even 30 years plus, or replace with a product that has a correction. Sometimes due to what we call "process shifts" problems don't manifest until decades later. Remember, these planes also need replacement parts and the process that generates them also changes slightly over time.

 

[Jezbollah]

This. The flaw could be part of something that will be transferred from the 777 to the upcoming 777x, would be useful catching it before the 777x goes into production. It took 14 years to catch the flaw with the 777 using Trent engines that existed in the fuel heat exchanger, luckily it did not result in fatalities and was subsequently redesigned.

Do you know how many flying hours the 777 has? More 777s have been produced since it first entered service in 1994 than the 747 did in 1968.

If there was some kind of flaw, it would have been found out years before now.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Do you know how many flying hours the 777 has? More 777s have been produced since it first entered service in 1994 than the 747 did in 1968.

If there was some kind of flaw, it would have been found out years before now.

I wish this was true I really do. But for aerospace and other high reliability applications we constantly challenge assumptions like this. This is part of the reason why flying is one of the safest forms of transportation today (and will keep getting safer).

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Are they going to start a new search to find this plane?

All current investigations point to the pilot or co-pilot doing a controlled ditching of the plane in the south Indian ocean.

 

[ManaByte]

Are they going to start a new search to find this plane?

All current investigations point to the pilot or co-pilot doing a controlled ditching of the plane in the south Indian ocean.

I thought it was a black hole?

 

[V4skunk]

Are they going to start a new search to find this plane?

All current investigations point to the pilot or co-pilot doing a controlled ditching of the plane in the south Indian ocean.

Pilot suicide more like.

 

[diffusionx]

This isn't really how the world works though. The planes you ride in could be made safer but the marginal benefit of 1% increase in safety doesn't make sense when compared with the 50% added cost.

Well, Boeing seemed to take this formulation in mind when they designed the 737 Max, how did that go for them?

You have to weigh the added cost against weeks and months of news about how your plane carried hundreds of people to their death, the investigations, the lawsuits and settlements, the press scrutiny, etc.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Pilot suicide more like.

Everything points to it.

- Turning off all communication right on the Malaysian/Vietnam border (can only be done by pilot or co-pilot)
- Doing sharp U-turn then flying right on the border of Malaysia and Vietnam moving in and out of both countries airspace on multiple occasions causing confusion in traffic control towers.
- Doing series of sharp banks around Penang (the pilot's home town) perhaps as a final farewell
- Wreckage discovered so far points to a controlled landing (again can only be done by a skilled individual like a pilot)
- Very inexperienced 27 year old co-pilot on his first flight. Would be easy to order around such a rookie.
- Cell tower information has co-pilot trying to make a call from the doomed plane.
- Investigators found flight simulator at pilots house practicing the same route MH370 would eventually take.

Alot of this points to the pilot and not accident like an onboard fire or bomb.

 

[nush]

Are they going to start a new search to find this plane?

All current investigations point to the pilot or co-pilot doing a controlled ditching of the plane in the south Indian ocean.

There's currently private companies doing some searching on a no find no fee basis. If they find it, they get paid by the Malaysian government.

 

[Neolombax]

There's currently private companies doing some searching on a no find no fee basis. If they find it, they get paid by the Malaysian government.

I am almost sure that our government is not looking into this anymore, right now. The political state in the country is in a worrying state. There's hardly any talk anymore about MH370 within the country.

 

[nush]

I am almost sure that our government is not looking into this anymore, right now.

that's what I said, private companies. Not government hired or funded ones.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Could MH370 finally be found?

This guy's data lines up almost exactly to the University of Western Australia on where the plane went down. Already several search parties are interested in going out to find it.
Ocean Infinity came closest to this location (The Broken Ridge) by missing it by just 30km.

2022 is the year of MH370 being found.

 

[Mohonky]

Could MH370 finally be found?

This guy's data lines up almost exactly to the University of Western Australia on where the plane went down. Already several search parties are interested in going out to find it.
Ocean Infinity came closest to this location (The Broken Ridge) by missing it by just 30km.

2022 is the year of MH370 being found.

Interesting.

They'll always continue searching for it; they will always want to know what happen.

 

[nush]

I feel we've been here a few time before that they think they have found the location, I'm doubtful. I wonder even if the black boxes are actually recoverable and functioning after all these years in order to shed some light as to why this plane went down.

 

[Insane Metal]

Netflix has just released a documentary on it. Gonna see it now.

 

[12Goblins]

Trailer looked good, but apparently it's trash and riddled with conspiracy theories. I'll still give it to try though

In the meantime I think this video is still king

 

[Blade2.0]

Netflix has just released a documentary on it. Gonna see it now.

What's the name?

 

[DeceptiveAlarm]

What's the name?

MH 370 the plane that disappeared.

 

[Revolutionary]

Netflix has just released a documentary on it. Gonna see it now.

It's complete garbage. Gives way too much time to conspiracy theorists

 

[3liteDragon]

2022 is the year of MH370 being found.

Welp...

 

[Insane Metal]

It's complete garbage. Gives way too much time to conspiracy theorists

You're right.

Trailer looked good, but apparently it's trash and riddled with conspiracy theories. I'll still give it to try though

In the meantime I think this video is still king

Yes. Lemmino's video is the best.

 

[GHG]

Trailer looked good, but apparently it's trash and riddled with conspiracy theories. I'll still give it to try though

It's full of the worst kinds of conspiracy theories. I'm surprised some of the families of the lost souls that were on board that plane agreed to go on the show considering some of the nonsense that's been said.

Waste of time, but can't expect much more from Netflix these days.

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

All these conspiracy theories and then we get to the fact there was 7,000kg of batteries in it and instead of going (oh shit maybe they exploded!?) We go to "it was obviously spy technology and the US wanted to blow it up

Wtf are these people smoking

 

[Chiggs]

All these conspiracy theories and then we get to the fact there was 7,000kg of batteries in it and instead of going (oh shit maybe they exploded!?) We go to "it was obviously spy technology and the US wanted to blow it up

Wtf are these people smoking

To be fair, that is one of theories that Florence de Changy indicates is a possibility. The problem is...why can't they find the aircraft? How big was the goddamn explosion?

The other problem is that is just what the manifest says they were. Since there was no X-ray photograph taken (standard practice, btw), we'll never know.

I think it's unlikely this case will ever be solved. It's just one of those things that will forever have theories and speculation.