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[Topher]

Microsoft’s developer event has a session list that confirms rumors of an Arm and AI focus for Windows this year.​

Microsoft’s annual developer conference, Microsoft Build, will focus heavily on Windows on Arm and new Windows AI features this year. The Verge revealed earlier this week that a special Surface and AI event a day before Microsoft Build will include a focus on beating Apple’s M3-powered MacBook Air with new Arm-powered Surface devices and a big new Windows AI feature. Now, Microsoft is all but confirming this.

Microsoft has listed out the developer sessions for Build today, including two that mention “the next generation of Windows on Arm” and “a brand-new Windows AI feature.” The next generation Windows on Arm session will include details on “industry-leading performance” for apps, likely a nod to Microsoft’s ambitions of beating Apple’s M3 chip on CPU performance and app emulation.

This same session will also include details on “new experiences for Arm-powered Windows this year, such as intelligent Windows apps that leverage rich capabilities of the NPU.” That is likely to include more Windows AI features, which are hinted at in another Build session. “We’re showcasing brand-new features that allow users deeper interaction with their digital lives on Windows through advance AI features,” says Microsoft in a Build session note.

That sounds a lot like the rumored AI Explorer feature coming to Windows 11, which is designed to work as a timeline you can summon on your PC. Microsoft describes this internally as a feature that lets you “retrieve anything you’ve ever seen or done on your device.”

Other Microsoft Build sessions include a focus on building Copilots and even plugins for the AI-powered assistant. Microsoft will also detail some additional developer experience improvements in Windows from the team that brought Windows Terminal, Dev Home, PowerToys, and the Windows Subsystem for Linux to life.

---

Microsoft Build will detail “next generation” of Windows on Arm and new AI features

Microsoft is getting ready for big Windows AI announcements.

www.theverge.com

So let's overthink this a bit from a gaming perspective....

1) What does this mean for PC gaming on Windows? Could x86 Windows be on the way out?
2) Are Microsoft's plans for Xbox in lockstep with their plans for Windows? Seen lots of mentions of AI and ARM thrown around lately regarding Xbox.
3) With Surface being referenced in both Windows and Xbox, how much fusion will there be between PC and console side of gaming for Microsoft, if at all?

Did I overthink it enough?

 

[UltimaKilo]

This is probably a thread for off-topic.

Glad Microsoft is embracing ARM, though.

Higher clocked and less efficient, but closes the gap with Apple.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

This combined with putting the surface team in charge and possibly being open to having other stores . . . seems like MS plans to make a steam deck competitor, probably with a tv dock as the next xbox.

 

[twilo99]

I am extremely skeptical on the “better than Rosetta 2 performance” but let’s wait and see I guess.

Like I said in the other ARM gaming thread, these new chips are very exciting for the handheld form factor

 

[twilo99]

This combined with putting the surface team in charge and possibly being open to having other stores . . . seems like MS plans to make a steam deck competitor, probably with a tv dock as the next xbox.

This new Qualcomm chip has the right TDP for handhelds, I’m just not too sure about the performance.

 

[diffusionx]

So let's overthink this a bit from a gaming perspective....

1) What does this mean for PC gaming on Windows? Could x86 Windows be on the way out?
2) Are Microsoft's plans for Xbox in lockstep with their plans for Windows? Seen lots of mentions of AI and ARM thrown around lately regarding Xbox.
3) With Surface being referenced in both Windows and Xbox, how much fusion will there be between PC and console side of gaming for Microsoft, if at all?

Did I overthink it enough?

1. I think the entire industry would love to move away from x86 to ARM if possible. The Apple chips showed that it is doable, but those chips were both more powerful and more efficient than the x86 chips they were using, and it allowed them to engineer their entire hardware stack towards on common platform.

2. I don't know what MS is planning to do with their next Xbox but I would be pretty surprised if it was yet another powerful x86 type console. That way of doing things just isn't working for them.

 

[Topher]

1. I think the entire industry would love to move away from x86 to ARM if possible. The Apple chips showed that it is doable, but those chips were both more powerful and more efficient than the x86 chips they were using, and it allowed them to engineer their entire hardware stack towards on common platform.

2. I don't know what MS is planning to do with their next Xbox but I would be pretty surprised if it was yet another powerful x86 type console. That way of doing things just isn't working for them.

Seems like more and more the move to ARM is going to happen. Nvidia saw this and was why they tried to buy ARM. Thank goodness that didn't happen.

My gut tells me Xbox and Windows are on a collision course and ARM is what will tie them together ultimately.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

This new Qualcomm chip has the right TDP for handhelds, I’m just not too sure about the performance.

I'm betting on whatever their windows os based handheld is, will fumble the ball some like the current ones. I just ordered a steam deck. I get it today. I think Steam will continue to handle handhelds better, at least for awhile.
They also have a 2 year head start.

 

[Punished Miku]

I'm all in on a multi-store "console UI" style PC, and I'd get the handheld too. Would get the best of Xbox ecosystem / system UI conveniences with cloud saves, cloud gaming, quick resume, mixed with forward compatible library so you don't lose anything. Could get anything on Steam and GOG not on consoles as well. Handheld is the cherry on top. Pretty much anything I could ever want from a platform holder. Just phase out paid online then and it will go down as the best console generation pivot of all time.

 

[winjer]

Microsoft already dominates the X86 market. It's the ARM market that still eludes them.
So they have to make a push into ARM, to gain some relevant market share. But I doubt that Google and Apple will make their work easy.

 

[RoadHazard]

This has little to do with gaming. You don't game on ARM Windows. But sure, if they can get a really efficient comparability layer going, maybe.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Arm is pretty fantastic from my limit knowledge. Moving over to that could be pretty neat to see how to changes the market and use.

 

[diffusionx]

Microsoft already dominates the X86 market. It's the ARM market that still eludes them.
So they have to make a push into ARM, to gain some relevant market share. But I doubt that Google and Apple will make their work easy.

Problem for MS is that while x86 is huge and will be around for a long time, it's clearly not where things are headed. Apple also has proven that ARM is totally viable for general purpose computing, so it's not like some mobile ghetto.

 

[winjer]

Problem for MS is that while x86 is huge and will be around for a long time, it's clearly not where things are headed. Apple also has proven that ARM is totally viable for general purpose computing, so it's not like some mobile ghetto.

X86 and ARM are just CPU ISAs, they are good for general computing.
For a couple of decades, X86 dominated the high performance market and ARM dominated the low cost, low power market, but the line is getting blurrier by the day.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Seems like more and more the move to ARM is going to happen. Nvidia saw this and was why they tried to buy ARM. Thank goodness that didn't happen.

My gut tells me Xbox and Windows are on a collision course and ARM is what will tie them together ultimately.

To what end? This would piss off so many of us.

All my old games going back decades are on x86 and still mostly work.
My work has custom programs going back decades that still work, SAP, lotus notes, mainframe, etc.... all use x86. The cost to retool and reprogram would be immense.

I get it for tablets, but not for desktop. Shit I would go full on linux if that was to happen.

Also this would probably be the end to open platorm, hello walled garden shitty windows store apps only. NO THANKS.

 

[Shadowstar39]

I'm all in on a multi-store "console UI" style PC, and I'd get the handheld too. Would get the best of Xbox ecosystem / system UI conveniences with cloud saves, cloud gaming, quick resume, mixed with forward compatible library so you don't lose anything. Could get anything on Steam and GOG not on consoles as well. Handheld is the cherry on top. Pretty much anything I could ever want from a platform holder. Just phase out paid online then and it will go down as the best console generation pivot of all time.

HAHA you actually think that would have backwards compatibility? WE have decades of x86 backwards compatibility which wouldn't work with arm. We also have decades of industry apps and programs.
It would also mean only microsoft walled garden store apps no actual desktop programs. Arm is fine for mobile use in edge cases, but not for gaming or industry.

Windows is used due to backwards compatibility and multi-use. Take that away, you may as well use a mac at that point. Ask apple fans how many games they have without having to dual boot.

 

[Punished Miku]

HAHA you actually think that would have backwards compatibility? WE have decades of x86 backwards compatibility which wouldn't work with arm. We also have decades of industry apps and programs.
It would also mean only microsoft walled garden store apps no actual desktop programs. Arm is fine for mobile use in edge cases, but not for gaming or industry.

Windows is used due to backwards compatibility and multi-use. Take that away, you may as well use a mac at that point. Ask apple fans how many games they have without having to dual boot.

I don't know. I'm just waiting to see how it goes.

 

[Badlucktroll]

maybe apple will bring back bootcamp so i can run it to the metal and not on parallels

 

[Danknugz]

To what end? This would piss off so many of us.

All my old games going back decades are on x86 and still mostly work.
My work has custom programs going back decades that still work, SAP, lotus notes, mainframe, etc.... all use x86. The cost to retool and reprogram would be immense.

I get it for tablets, but not for desktop. Shit I would go full on linux if that was to happen.

Also this would probably be the end to open platorm, hello walled garden shitty windows store apps only. NO THANKS.

exactly, and given MS track record they will implement AI as some kind of high powered cortana that is just a huge bloated resource hog no one will want to use.

 

[Ozriel]

1) What does this mean for PC gaming on Windows? Could x86 Windows be on the way out?

x86 isn’t going anywhere for quite a while. These Snapdragon Elite chips are initially targeted at notebooks. Desktop CPUs will still remain more powerful at the high end, though less efficient.

the Snapdragon chips have a decent iGPU that should allow people play a lot of Steam games via translation layer.

Microsoft already dominates the X86 market. It's the ARM market that still eludes them.
So they have to make a push into ARM, to gain some relevant market share. But I doubt that Google and Apple will make their work easy.

What does Google have to do with this? It’s Windows, whether running on x86 or ARM.

Also not sure what Apple’s got to do with this too.

To what end? This would piss off so many of us.

All my old games going back decades are on x86 and still mostly work.
My work has custom programs going back decades that still work, SAP, lotus notes, mainframe, etc.... all use x86. The cost to retool and reprogram would be immense.

I get it for tablets, but not for desktop. Shit I would go full on linux if that was to happen.

Also this would probably be the end to open platorm, hello walled garden shitty windows store apps only. NO THANKS.

Why would ARM chip powered computers spell and end to open platform Windows?

It’s been years since Apple went ARM. How are you this ignorant of anything concerning the transition?

 

[winjer]

What does Google have to do with this? It’s Windows, whether running on x86 or ARM.

Also not sure what Apple’s got to do with this too.

Apple and Google are the 2 main market leaders in the ARM space, with Android and iOS.

 

[Ozriel]

Apple and Google are the 2 main market leaders in the ARM space, with Android and iOS.

There’s no such thing as ‘ARM market’ though? im not sure where you’re going with this.

 

[winjer]

There’s no such thing as ‘ARM market’ though? im not sure where you’re going with this.

The market of ARM CPU sales and the respective OS.
MS is trying to get into the ARM OS market, and get a share of it.

 

[Ozriel]

The market of ARM CPU sales and the respective OS.
MS is trying to get into the ARM OS market, and get a share of it.

Nah. You’re getting this wrong. Windows is Windows, x86 or ARM. Microsoft hopes ARM chips for Windows takes off because it’ll boost sales for powerful, efficient laptops and rival Apple’s M series.

the main marketshare play with respect to CPUs is with Qualcomm challenging Intel and AMD for a significant share of desktop/laptop CPU sales.

The game is Qualcomm vs NVIDiA vs Intel vs AMD. Apple does their own thing, exclusive to their platform. Google is a relatively negligible presence.

 

[winjer]

Nah. You’re getting this wrong. Windows is Windows, x86 or ARM. Microsoft hopes ARM chips for Windows takes off because it’ll boost sales for powerful, efficient laptops and rival Apple’s M series.

the main marketshare play with respect to CPUs is with Qualcomm challenging Intel and AMD for a significant share of desktop/laptop CPU sales.

The game is Qualcomm vs NVIDiA vs Intel vs AMD. Apple does their own thing, exclusive to their platform. Google is a relatively negligible presence.

ARM already took off, a long time ago. And it's growing.
When mobile phones and tablets were starting out, MS missed out, because they were too busy with lawsuits.
Now we are starting to see ARM CPUs gaining enough performance to challenge mid and high end X86 CPUs.
MS can't afford to lose it again.

What do you mean google has a negligible presence. Remove Apple, and they dominate the ARM OS ecosystem, with Android.

 

[Topher]

To what end? This would piss off so many of us.

All my old games going back decades are on x86 and still mostly work.
My work has custom programs going back decades that still work, SAP, lotus notes, mainframe, etc.... all use x86. The cost to retool and reprogram would be immense.

I get it for tablets, but not for desktop. Shit I would go full on linux if that was to happen.

Also this would probably be the end to open platorm, hello walled garden shitty windows store apps only. NO THANKS.

I'm wondering if Microsoft sees much financial value in legacy programs at this point. Made sense back when Windows was the centerpiece of Microsoft, but that's not the case anymore. I imagine O Ozriel is correct and x86 will be around for a while with Windows, but at the same time, is it really in their best interest to maintain this open platform? Of course, even if the answer is no then you have to wonder about anti-trust implications here as well. Not sure Microsoft wants to test those waters.

 

[Danknugz]

the problem is with enterprise environments that generally force developers to accommodate new changes to OS on a mass level not the other way around.

 

[StereoVsn]

I'm wondering if Microsoft sees much financial value in legacy programs at this point. Made sense back when Windows was the centerpiece of Microsoft, but that's not the case anymore. I imagine O Ozriel is correct and x86 will be around for a while with Windows, but at the same time, is it really in their best interest to maintain this open platform? Of course, even if the answer is no then you have to wonder about anti-trust implications here as well. Not sure Microsoft wants to test those waters.

If MS wants that Enterprise revenue they will have to maintain x86 Windows for decades.

As an example, my company still has WinXP machines around in manufacturing space. Yes, it’s unsupported obviously but just an example.

Anyways, MS can’t just ditch x86 because their Enterprise customers will give them hell and Azure and even M365 aren’t the only game in town.

That said I fully believe MS will push hard to move their regular customers over to ARM based locked down version of Windows and it will suck. I guess I will fully switch to Linux and Apple at that point.

As for ARM in general compute, it already exists. For example, AWS Graviton servers are amazing bang for the $ if you don’t run COTS application, and can convert your code.

 

[Ozriel]

That said I fully believe MS will push hard to move their regular customers over to ARM based locked down version of Windows and it will suck. I guess I will fully switch to Linux and Apple at that point.

Why in the world would you equate ‘ARM based’ and ‘locked down’?

Amusingly you talk about moving to Mac, which is pretty much exclusively ARM now and not ‘locked down’ in any way.

 

[Topher]

Why in the world would you equate ‘ARM based’ and ‘locked down’?

Amusingly you talk about moving to Mac, which is pretty much exclusively ARM now and not ‘locked down’ in any way.

I don't see how he is equating those. Windows can be ARM based and a closed ecosystem seperately.

Probably talking about moving to Apple because they are not locked down. I'll probably go ful linux myself. Thankfully, there are other options in PC gaming than Windows these days, thank you Proton.

If MS wants that Enterprise revenue they will have to maintain x86 Windows for decades.

As an example, my company still has WinXP machines around in manufacturing space. Yes, it’s unsupported obviously but just an example.

Anyways, MS can’t just ditch x86 because their Enterprise customers will give them hell and Azure and even M365 aren’t the only game in town.

That said I fully believe MS will push hard to move their regular customers over to ARM based locked down version of Windows and it will suck. I guess I will fully switch to Linux and Apple at that point.

As for ARM in general compute, it already exists. For example, AWS Graviton servers are amazing bang for the $ if you don’t run COTS application, and can convert your code.

Good points. I definitely think if MS goes that route they will go the consumer angle first with ARM and let it bleed over into the enterprise over time.

 

[StereoVsn]

Why in the world would you equate ‘ARM based’ and ‘locked down’?

Amusingly you talk about moving to Mac, which is pretty much exclusively ARM now and not ‘locked down’ in any way.

Because I firmly believe that’s what MS really wants, locked down ecosystem.

Edit: ARM itself of course is just a platform, nothing to do with being locked down.

 

[adamsapple]

Windows XP for life!

 

[StereoVsn]

I don't see how he is equating those. Windows can be ARM based and a closed ecosystem seperately.

Probably talking about moving to Apple because they are not locked down. I'll probably go ful linux myself. Thankfully, there are other options in PC gaming than Windows these days, thank you Proton.



Good points. I definitely think if MS goes that route they will go the consumer angle first with ARM and let it bleed over into the enterprise over time.

Yep, I believe MS is going to try and go the locked down ecosystem route (with appropriate allowances for the Enterprise and EU directives).

If that occurs I would move to Apple for general compute for my family (easy to use) and Linux for Gaming/more serious work.

 

[StereoVsn]

Windows XP for life!

You laugh, but wait till you have to support manufacturing folks with bunch of embedded XP systems that they don’t want to replace because there too much $$$.

 

[Three]

Seems like more and more the move to ARM is going to happen. Nvidia saw this and was why they tried to buy ARM. Thank goodness that didn't happen.

My gut tells me Xbox and Windows are on a collision course and ARM is what will tie them together ultimately.

It was the likes of MS, and Google who were pushing for the ARM deal to be blocked by regulators. They're the ones who are now going to make ARM more ubiquitous.

 

[bitbydeath]

This has little to do with gaming. You don't game on ARM Windows. But sure, if they can get a really efficient comparability layer going, maybe.

Next-gen Xbox was already leaked to be running off ARM.

^^ That’s a real slide from Microsoft ^^

Microsoft's next all-new Xbox console could have Arm not x86 CPU cores

Does that actually matter for PC gaming?

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Syphon Filter]

Problem for MS is that while x86 is huge and will be around for a long time, it's clearly not where things are headed. Apple also has proven that ARM is totally viable for general purpose computing, so it's not like some mobile ghetto.

arm is bad since backward compatibility will be ruined if they go with it.

 

[Syphon Filter]

HAHA you actually think that would have backwards compatibility? WE have decades of x86 backwards compatibility which wouldn't work with arm. We also have decades of industry apps and programs.
It would also mean only microsoft walled garden store apps no actual desktop programs. Arm is fine for mobile use in edge cases, but not for gaming or industry.

Windows is used due to backwards compatibility and multi-use. Take that away, you may as well use a mac at that point. Ask apple fans how many games they have without having to dual boot.

How come you think arm would mean a walled garden store app happens?

 

[RoadHazard]

Next-gen Xbox was already leaked to be running off ARM.

^^ That’s a real slide from Microsoft ^^

Microsoft's next all-new Xbox console could have Arm not x86 CPU cores

Does that actually matter for PC gaming?

www.pcgamer.com

That's a hybrid cloud console, not sure how much game running the ARM chip will be doing.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I got Microsoft 365 and I’m testing Microsoft Co-pilot for Microsoft 365…

So far it’s rubbish.

 

[Sethbacca]

I get that AI is the new hotness but I could really do without it being in every single facet of my life. I want my OS to just operate, and if I want AI services and features I can open apps that are specific to that purpose. I detest the design of Windows 11, so I'd really just not prefer it get worse. I may have to finally give in and learn Linux now that gaming is actually getting feasible.

 

[64bitmodels]

Yay, so excited for lower app compatibility, no part swapping and slower processors. Yoohoo!


I know that cpu architectures aren't supposed to last forever but this ARM powered future judging by corporate trends just feels like a hellscape were all being thrust into because of longer battery life and less heat

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Very interested in ARM performance. Depending on the result the stocks will go brr brr or not.

 

[Topher]

That's a hybrid cloud console, not sure how much game running the ARM chip will be doing.

Yeah, but there are some definite parrallels coming from both Windows and Xbox with talk of ARM, AI and the Surface team seems heavily involved on both sides.

 

[Ozriel]

I don't see how he is equating those. Windows can be ARM based and a closed ecosystem seperately.

Probably talking about moving to Apple because they are not locked down. I'll probably go ful linux myself. Thankfully, there are other options in PC gaming than Windows these days, thank you Proton.

Yep, I believe MS is going to try and go the locked down ecosystem route (with appropriate allowances for the Enterprise and EU directives).

If that occurs I would move to Apple for general compute for my family (easy to use) and Linux for Gaming/more serious work.

When you look at the regulatory environment today, when you know Microsoft has just been designated as a ‘Gatekeeper’ for Windows by the EU, when you see the DOJ and EU pushing even locked iOS to open up…and then you go “I think Microsoft plans to lock down Windows”… that’s clearly in tinfoil hat territory.

Ah, well. I’m past the stage where anything here surprises me.

 

[Ozriel]

Next-gen Xbox was already leaked to be running off ARM.

^^ That’s a real slide from Microsoft ^^

Microsoft's next all-new Xbox console could have Arm not x86 CPU cores

Does that actually matter for PC gaming?

www.pcgamer.com

You didn’t see the ‘vs’ part there?

The slides shows that ARM is under consideration. Not that it’s going to be based off ARM.

 

[bitbydeath]

That's a hybrid cloud console, not sure how much game running the ARM chip will be doing.

One could say it is the biggest technological leap.

 

[bitbydeath]

You didn’t see the ‘vs’ part there?

The slides shows that ARM is under consideration. Not that it’s going to be based off ARM.

OP seems to indicate the decision was made.

 

[Topher]

When you look at the regulatory environment today, when you know Microsoft has just been designated as a ‘Gatekeeper’ for Windows by the EU, when you see the DOJ and EU pushing even locked iOS to open up…and then you go “I think Microsoft plans to lock down Windows”… that’s clearly in tinfoil hat territory.

Ah, well. I’m past the stage where anything here surprises me.

Uh.....I said as much earlier in a post that I mentioned you in.

I'm wondering if Microsoft sees much financial value in legacy programs at this point. Made sense back when Windows was the centerpiece of Microsoft, but that's not the case anymore. I imagine O Ozriel is correct and x86 will be around for a while with Windows, but at the same time, is it really in their best interest to maintain this open platform? Of course, even if the answer is no then you have to wonder about anti-trust implications here as well. Not sure Microsoft wants to test those waters.

Why are you getting bent out of shape over speculation? Ain't that serious dude

 

[twilo99]

I'm wondering if Microsoft sees much financial value in legacy programs at this point. Made sense back when Windows was the centerpiece of Microsoft, but that's not the case anymore. I imagine O Ozriel is correct and x86 will be around for a while with Windows, but at the same time, is it really in their best interest to maintain this open platform? Of course, even if the answer is no then you have to wonder about anti-trust implications here as well. Not sure Microsoft wants to test those waters.

They would get rid of all legacy code if they could, but the “value proposition” for their customers is backward compatibility with their outdated software, and I guess the piece of mind that if they built a program for Windows 11 Microsoft will make sure that same program will continue to function for decades.

It’s just how they operate, which is probably why we have excellent backward compatibility with the Xbox thing