DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
borghe said:
The Gift & The Curse
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Native 1080i 360 games?
- Thread starter Blaster1X
- Start date
The Gift & The Curse
Beer Monkey
Member
Blaster1X said:
Then why is a Marble Blast Ultra dev talking about rending it at 500fps in 1280x720?
shpankey
not an idiot
all i know is, NBA 2k6 looks unfuckingbelievable and PGR3 is very, VERY dark and has jaggies really bad on the cars (not to mention the blurriest roads I've ever seen, ever).
what this has to do with this thread and resolutions? I don't know. some of you smart guys should tell me.
what this has to do with this thread and resolutions? I don't know. some of you smart guys should tell me.
I don't think that any games are 1080i.
If I had a 1080p TV with the resolution to tell a night and day difference, I'd confirm that the boxes that claim 1080 lie. Furthermore, since the Xbox has a scaler in it, the developers have hardly any incentive to make any 1080i games. I will be surprised if we see more than a handful of 1080 game and DON'T BELIEVE THE BOX PRINT, THEY LIE.
If I had a 1080p TV with the resolution to tell a night and day difference, I'd confirm that the boxes that claim 1080 lie. Furthermore, since the Xbox has a scaler in it, the developers have hardly any incentive to make any 1080i games. I will be surprised if we see more than a handful of 1080 game and DON'T BELIEVE THE BOX PRINT, THEY LIE.
Warm Machine
Member
shpankey said:all i know is, NBA 2k6 looks unfuckingbelievable and PGR3 is very, VERY dark and has jaggies really bad on the cars (not to mention the blurriest roads I've ever seen, ever).
what this has to do with this thread and resolutions? I don't know. some of you smart guys should tell me.
Unless you've never seen an N64 or PS2 racing game I don't think PGR3 has the blurriest roads you've ever seen.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Last Hope said:
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You shouldn't post.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
COD2 and DoA4 I beleive are 1080i because they are the only two that output a fullscreen image at 1280x1024.
Beer Monkey
Member
morbidaza said:
Yeah, because a widescreen 1920x540 (or 1920x1080) framebuffer easily automatically scales to a 5:4 or 4:3 1280x1024 screen. You'd either have cropped HUD elements or tall skinny game elements.
These games probably just use more than one framebuffer resolution depending on the game mode. We already know that some games render in 640x480 for standard def modes while using 1280x720 for the high def modes. Kameo and PDZ do this. Supporting 1024 lines in full screen doesn't mean that the game is rendered in 1080i. A few games like Ridge Racer may render everything in one mode and scale to all others, but that doesn't mean that all games do.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Maybe this is off-topic, but PDZ stretches off the screen to the right no matter what setting my X360 is on. Other games don't do this. Does this have to do with PDZ's programming or my TV or is it a conversion problem? I have a 30" Sony CRT HDTV.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Does RR6 crop a little on the sides for anyone else in 1080i? The position marker and map are right at the border of the screen and shouldn't be.
Also, in 1080i, my 'aspect ratio' button doesn't do shit, so I'm stuck w/ the cropping.
Looks like the bottom pic:
The image isn't stretched at all either as far as I can tell. The speedometer is a perfectly round circle.
Also, in 1080i, my 'aspect ratio' button doesn't do shit, so I'm stuck w/ the cropping.
Looks like the bottom pic:
The image isn't stretched at all either as far as I can tell. The speedometer is a perfectly round circle.
Beer Monkey
Member
Blaster1X said:
SOURCE, PLEASE.
You were already wrong on all Arcade games being 1080i, so why on earth should anybody believe you about this when you have provided no source and no native framebuffer screen captures?
Beer Monkey
Member
Onix said:
Do you understand that thousands of 3D games for older systems like PS1, N64, Saturn, and PS2 rendered 320x240 and 640x240 interlaced fields?
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Read my earlier post - I'm aware of it.
However, there are many issues that come along with it - and I haven't heard many compaints regarding 360 graphics that sounded like obvious interlacing issues.
Also, I would think devs are less likely to use it now for two reasons.
1) Memory - not having a lot of GPU RAM isn't an issue like it was on PS2.
2) The graphic artifacts that occur when interlacing goes awry would be especially obvious on a large display. Since 1080 is an HD resolution, and the majority of HDTV's owned right now are fairly large in size I would think the devs would want to avoid such issues.
BTW - I believe 320x240 was the actual full frame resolution for many previous system games. 640x224 was fairly common for early PS2 games though. PS2 devs were forced into using interlaced buffers until they had better memory management schemes - that or they would need to make significant sacrifices with regards to textures. This was due to the GS's lack of graphics memory. Once there were able to take advantage of the bandwidth the embedded memory offered however, they were able to overcome this issue via multiple passes.
scooby_dooby
Banned
gofreak said:
The actual picture quality you see on screen is equivalent to a 1920x1080 image, as far as detail and picture quality goes.
Equating non-progressive display with 1/2 resolution is completely wrong IMO. It's a full 1920x1080i image, it's simply not progressive scan, many people can not even notice a difference between interlaced and progressive.
Just because a diaplay is non-progressive, doesn't mean it all of a sudden loses half it's image quality. 1080i is a much higher resolution than 720p.
How many pixels are displayed per second is a completely different matter.
Blaster1X said:
Again, I will ask whether this is a bit of a misunderstanding.
"The work-in-progress version we saw was running at 1080i and needs to be seen on an HDTV to be believed."
Note that it says 'running' at 1080i. Do they mean it is actually internally rendered as interlaced frames, or are they simply commenting on either the display device or the simple fact that the 360 cannot output beyond 1080i?
There doesn't appear to be anything in these quotes referring to internal framebuffer data - it may simply be referring to the output resolution.
To be honest - the comments are ambiguous enough that they could potentially be referring to the 360 output entirely. The output controller on the 360 can act as a scaler, so technically the render resolution could have been anything. I do not believe this to be the case, but the quotes leave a lot of questions.
Unless a developer comes out and says they are rendering at 1920x1080 to output 1080i, I don't think we'll know for sure. What I can say is that, given the quality of the 360 scaler (720p scaled to 1080i on Xbox360 is not differentiable from native 1080i as it often is on satellite/cable recievers) - it would be a waste to render at that resolution unless you were actually using textures with high enough resolution to take advantage of that (and it doesn't look like they are at this point). The only advantage would be crisper edges - but given that AA is standard in games, then theoretically (key word - as we've seen jaggies already anyway) that negates that point also.
As for the debate about the resolution of 1080i. As stated before, the interlaced frames do not disappear - they simply refresh every half frame every 1/60 of a second. Given the way your eyes work (you don't see individual frames, it appears to your eyes as one moving image) you can recognize it as a moving image also. What you lose is a little crispness in horizontal movement and vertical movement can lose some detail and not look perfectly smooth. So, at a given resolution the progressive image will look crisper and smoother, but it will hardly look twice as good (the reason 480i signals look worse on 720p TVs is generally because most TVs have pretty crappy de-interlacers/scalers for 480i). 720p will give you smoother vertical motion (horizontal motion is a much more marginal issue because you are "combing" at a much finer level of detail in 1080i - vertical movement is the key factor in interlaced images), but 1080i definitely shows more detail (assuming the source has more detail to be shown - which isn't the case yet with 360 games)
As for the debate about the resolution of 1080i. As stated before, the interlaced frames do not disappear - they simply refresh every half frame every 1/60 of a second. Given the way your eyes work (you don't see individual frames, it appears to your eyes as one moving image) you can recognize it as a moving image also. What you lose is a little crispness in horizontal movement and vertical movement can lose some detail and not look perfectly smooth. So, at a given resolution the progressive image will look crisper and smoother, but it will hardly look twice as good (the reason 480i signals look worse on 720p TVs is generally because most TVs have pretty crappy de-interlacers/scalers for 480i). 720p will give you smoother vertical motion (horizontal motion is a much more marginal issue because you are "combing" at a much finer level of detail in 1080i - vertical movement is the key factor in interlaced images), but 1080i definitely shows more detail (assuming the source has more detail to be shown - which isn't the case yet with 360 games)
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
*ahem*
Does RR6 have the edges chopped off in 1080i for anyone else?
Does RR6 have the edges chopped off in 1080i for anyone else?
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
DaCocoBrova said:*ahem*
Does RR6 have the edges chopped off in 1080i for anyone else?
PDZ and Project Gotham do it on my Sony 30" CRT HDTV.
While it could be the games, have you had your geometry, etc. calibrated for your TV? CRT's are notorious for under/over scan.
While multiple scan-rates has its advantages, a disatvantage is that the TVs need to be calibrated for each rate. Unfortunately, I don't know if many of them offer memory for each scan-rate. Therefore, you have to pick with scan-rate you will use the most, and calibrate it as such. Obviously, that means the other scan rate(s) could have issues.
While multiple scan-rates has its advantages, a disatvantage is that the TVs need to be calibrated for each rate. Unfortunately, I don't know if many of them offer memory for each scan-rate. Therefore, you have to pick with scan-rate you will use the most, and calibrate it as such. Obviously, that means the other scan rate(s) could have issues.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
So it's not just me.
There's no work around for this either it would seem.
Buying a widescreen set only to have the edges chopped off sucks. I noticed this on my LCD aswell, but at least that allowed me to change the display modes (scaled/non-scaled etc.).
No, I haven't. I have tried finding the service menu code for my set though, to no avail. This is clearly an overscan thing, so it should be a quick fix once I gain access to the menu, if ever.
There's no work around for this either it would seem.
Buying a widescreen set only to have the edges chopped off sucks. I noticed this on my LCD aswell, but at least that allowed me to change the display modes (scaled/non-scaled etc.).
No, I haven't. I have tried finding the service menu code for my set though, to no avail. This is clearly an overscan thing, so it should be a quick fix once I gain access to the menu, if ever.
Blaster1X said:
I must be a little confused... when you say chopped off - are you talking about seeing some borders on one or more sides of the image. Or are you referring to overscan? If its the former, you definitely need to get re-calibrated - you shouldn't have borders on any side of your 360 images. That's an issue with your TV. Mine does not have the issue at all. If its just overscan - almost all TVs have some amount of overscan - this is done purposely by manufacturers. On a CRT, this can be adjusted by a professional to minimize overscan if it was set to an excessive amount by the manufacturer. However, a reasonable (5-7%) amount is normal and most broadcasts and games purposely do not show key detail in these areas because it is expected.
={<SMOKE>}=
Member
Onix said:
is underscan to blame if gamecube and xbox games running in 16:9 mode on my widescreen hdtv don't quite fill the screen? there's typically a little bit of black on each edge of the tv. these are games running at 480p--not sure if that makes a difference.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The only games that have areas chopped off for me are PDZ and PGR3. COD2, Madden, Tiger, DOA4, Condemned, NBA2K6, and Kameo all look great and fit well. I have my X360 set at 1080i and I have the 30" Sony CDT HDTV. Right now, I think I will dismiss this as poor programming and not spend money to have my TV calibrated. unless, of course, this is a reoccurring problem.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Shawn128 said:
1024×600
DenogginizerOS said:
You forgot RR6.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Blaster1X said:
I hope they do it soon.
Well, I would assume there would be some consistancy with over/under scan issues with CRTs. With mine, I can go into the service menu and play with the screen geometry just like you could a computer CRT. I remember when I first got my TV playing Amped 2 and I notices that text on the left was cut off. The only way I was able to center the picture was in the service menu.
shpankey
not an idiot
I think that NBA 2k6 may also be 1080i native, but can't say for a fact. I only say this because of the way it looks on my HDTV. It's a perfect picture (due to my tv having an ISF calibration done to it at this res). All the 720p games look darker and a bit off. But again, this is just a subjective guess.
