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[The Artisan]

One thing that always is catching my curiosity is the neanderthals. So interesting to just be aware of the fact that there were other human species wandering around this earth besides the sapiens.

Evidence suggests that 1-4% of European and Middle Eastern DNA is Neanderthal. The only race of humans to have 0 percent Neanderthal DNA are those of purely African descent.

Which sounds right, because early reconstructions of Neanderthals depicted them to be hairy and apelike which is not only inaccurate but arguably racist. This article while 6 years old suggests if interbreeding happened, it was mostly male Neanderthals and female cromagnons, while this documentary suggests it was also the other way around, although it is 16 years old.

And there's also archaeologists who say that we never interbred with them and they just died off because we were just the superior homo species. That's a dull theory but I suppose it could be true.

What do you think?

 

[ShinMaruku]

Neanderthals are part of the genus Homo which makes them humans so the term is kind of misleading.

Also that is not the only cross mating event. We also have people in Asia who have Denosovan dna which is a unknown species of human as well.



Basically what happened to bring about these 3 seperate lineages is a species called Homo Hidelbergenis migrated out of Africa, the ones who went to the middle east and Europe evolved into Neanderthals, the ones who went to Asia became Denosovans, the population that remained in Africa became what we are, then when we left Africa we met those two populations around 200k years ago and some interbreeding seems to have occurred. From those groups there is enough time for some genes to remain in people today.

 

[Wvrs]

I've only touched on human evolution for a linguistic perspective, but it's pretty widely accepted that neanderthals weren't totally wiped out and instead bred with homo sapiens sapiens.

Contrary to belief they weren't dumb, hairy brutes. They had tools, maybe religious beliefs, possibly even language.

 

[Herb Alpert]

I think some genetic evidence of hybridation were found a few years ago.

 

[Sesuadra]

Neanderthals are part of the genus Homo which makes them humans so the term is kind of misleading.

Also that is not the only cross mating event. We also have people in Asia who have Denosovan dna which is a unknown species of human as well.



Basically what happened to bring about these 3 seperate lineages is a species called Homo Hidelbergenis migrated out of Africa, the ones who went to the middle east and Europe evolved into Neanderthals, the ones who went to Asia became Denosovans, the population that remained in Africa became what we are, then when we left Africa we met those two populations around 200k years ago and some interbreeding seems to have occurred. From those groups there is enough time for some genes to remain in people today.

do you mean Homo heidelbergensis?

 

[The Pope]

Fact. Everyone, except those from sub Saharan Africa have Neanderthal DNA. Other then a few more immune deficiencies or efficiencies (cant remember) to certain ailmemts there is nothing of value Neanderthals left us. Also those Europeans decended of a woman codenamed Helana are more resistant to septisemia then those Europeans with the Iris codename. My whole family payed to have our genome done by the people from the Nat Geo project whilst they were researching the black populations genetic origin here in Durban. Fascinating Stuff!

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Maybe neanderthal gave us light skin and straight hair?

 

[sphagnum]

Maybe neanderthal gave us light skin and straight hair?

No, light skin evolved in Europeans only a few thousand years ago.

 

[Karsticles]

I am at least 50% Neanderthal.

Or at least that's what my wife tells me, and she has an anthropology degree.

 

[Binabik15]

Fun fact: The homo heidelbergensis was NOT found in Heidelberg, it was found roughly 500m by air from where I'm sitting right now. A town called Mauer (German for "wall"). The dude that found him was a worker in a sand pit and went to a restaurant (that is still in business) and told everyone he had found Adam.

For his find the owner of the establishment put out a bottle of Schnaps for him every morning to drink at work, which probably made him happier than some old bones named after him.

 

[Joni]

It is a combination of interbreeding and some plain murder.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

No, light skin evolved in Europeans only a few thousand years ago.

But northern europeans had it for more than that

 

[hirokazu]

What if it's both fact and theory? 🤔

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

How a 400,000-year-old skull fragment hints at ancient 'unified humanity'

 

[PJV3]

There's no way humans didn't fuck them, some humans will fuck anything, a slightly uglier version isn't going to be a problem back then.

 

[Parahan]

I am at least 50% Neanderthal.

Or at least that's what my wife tells me, and she has an anthropology degree.

My gf tells me the same thing when I throw away chopsticks and use a fork. And she has no degree in anthropology

There's no way humans didn't fuck them, some humans will fuck anything, a slightly uglier version isn't going to be a problem back then.

What do you mean 'back then'?

 

[Business]

There's no way humans didn't fuck them, some humans will fuck anything, a slightly uglier version isn't going to be a problem back then.

I guess nobody ever doubted that but the issue was at first if there could have been offspring and once hybrid remains were found the question was if this offspring could have been fertile.

 

[PJV3]

What do you mean 'back then'?

True, they did a reconstruction using a male actor and nobody* noticed him, they would totally get some today.

He was in modern clothes though.


Oh I totally missed the genetic compatability issue, I always thought we were close enough, well in anything recent that I have seen on the subject.

 

[Ishan]

Errr this is an online forum if you want a real answer read well respected journals .....??

 

[Correctomundo]

Can we stop using the word "theory" in a scientific context to mean hypothesis? A theory contains the entire model, and that includes facts.

 

[Reeks]

What if it's both fact and theory? 🤔

It is a fact that neanderthal DNA are found in modern homo sapiens. The exact details of how the encorporation transpired is theoretical. An important thing to note is that scientific theories are always rooted in fact.

 

[Madness]

No, light skin evolved in Europeans only a few thousand years ago.

You're thinking of modern Homo Sapiens Europeans who are now estimated to have adapted to lighter skin, blue eyes, blonde hair about 8,000-10,000 years ago, but Neanderthals lived for 100,000 to 30,000 years ago in Europe and North Eurasia and are now also said to have had lighter and fairer features and they even say it wasn't necessarily Neanderthals that contributed to the change, but one that happened through intermixing yes, but also several thousands of years post ice age in higher latitudes, homogenous evolution due to isolation.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Errr this is an online forum if you want a real answer read well respected journals .....??

Not on the weekends, but this forum does have a number of highly educated people...not an unreasonable thread.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Blatant fact, but the exact nature and context of such interbreeding is unclear.

It's a bit of an ambiguous thing since, genetically speaking, it must mean we and Neanderthals were still close enough that we could produce viable offspring, unlike most hybrid species. Ie, this was not the human equivalent of a liger we're talking about. It's also unclear if it would have truly been so widespread so as to create whole populations of Neaderthal-Sapien peoples, or if a 'few' (say, couple thousand scattered across Eurasia) select incidents in otherwise Homo Sapien populations managed to spread to everyone outside of sub-Saharan Africa.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

It's more like dogs and wolves, so yes basically same species. Not a true sterile hybrid.

 

[Joni]

Blatant fact, but the exact nature and context of such interbreeding is unclear.

It's a bit of an ambiguous thing since, genetically speaking, it must mean we and Neanderthals were still close enough that we could produce viable offspring, unlike most hybrid species. Ie, this was not the human equivalent of a liger we're talking about. It's also unclear if it would have truly been so widespread so as to create whole populations of Neaderthal-Sapien peoples, or if a 'few' (say, couple thousand scattered across Eurasia) select incidents in otherwise Homo Sapien populations managed to spread to everyone outside of sub-Saharan Africa.

And they must have been close enough for almost every hybrid to appear more Homo Sapiens Sapiens than Neanderthal as we have very little evidence of hybrids existing.

 

[WinFonda]

Neanderthal DNA is present in almost all modern humans, so yes.

Seems like it somehow happened. I think rather than there being an entire isolated population of mixed homosapiens and neanderthals, there was likely a few instances of this occurring where the offspring were then raised in dominant homosapien groups; most likely unbeknownst to them. Those hybrid offspring grew into adults and had more children with homosapiens, and on and on we go till present day.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Maybe neanderthal gave us light skin and straight hair?

This occurs in Africa naturally.

 

[Joni]

Neanderthal DNA is present in almost all modern humans, so yes.

That is achievable with a low number of hybrids, as we share a direct line to a couple of human beings in history.

 

[NewGame]

I believe we have yet to find the missing link, let alone the missing links sexual foray.

 

[Calabi]

Maybe we didn't mate with one another maybe it was just some kind of horizontal gene transfer.

We both used the same washing machine.

 

[Amalthea]

Maybe we didn't mate with one another maybe it was just some kind of horizontal gene transfer.

We both used the same washing machine.

Our ancestors ate too many Neanderthal brains.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

And they must have been close enough for almost every hybrid to appear more Homo Sapiens Sapiens than Neanderthal as we have very little evidence of hybrids existing.

Or otherwise they were more likely to breed with Homo Sapiens Sapiens, meaning their successors would ultimately appear increasingly the latter to modern forensic techniques that don't look down to the genetic level, especially with how probability based most skeletal interpretation is.

Thing is, it's an archaeological needle in a haystack. One of the immediate biases in archaeology is that you will only find what remains, not what necessarily existed. In this instance, we see the genetic markers that indicate at some point in our (that is, for those of us with non sub-Saharan African) ancestry, a neanderthal got their way in. But that doesn't necessarily mean the physical remains of any of the specific ancestors in question actually exist anymore, or that they are in places where people are looking.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Maladaptation probably led to the Neanderthal demise not one on one conflict.

 

[M3d10n]

Given the wide variety of shapes and forms found in modern humans, would a Neanderthal stand out?

 

[Boem]

Given the wide variety of shapes and forms found in modern humans, would a Neanderthal stand out?

Yes.

 

[HStallion]

Yes.

*waits for someone to find a picture of an actual person that looks exactly like this*

 

[Bedameister]

I think it's considered a fact nowadays.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Neanderthal DNA is present in almost all modern humans, so yes.

Seems like it somehow happened. I think rather than there being an entire isolated population of mixed homosapiens and neanderthals, there was likely a few instances of this occurring where the offspring were then raised in dominant homosapien groups; most likely unbeknownst to them. Those hybrid offspring grew into adults and had more children with homosapiens, and on and on we go till present day.

I may be wrong but I think there is none in african population which points to a hybridation after homo sapiens left africa.
The fact that there is some in asian and european population would point to this hybridation main place being middle east.

 

[BarringGaffner]

Look around the internet today, and then tell me we didn't fuck neanderthals. People are into some weird shit.

Also, yes we did. DNA doesn't lie.

 

[Herb Alpert]

People should stop thinking neanderthals were some stupid barbarians. They probably were not and had a deep spirituality. It seems they were not as innovative as homo sapiens when it comes to tools though.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Given the wide variety of shapes and forms found in modern humans, would a Neanderthal stand out?

Neanderthal specifically? Yes. But a neanderthal-homo sapiens hybrid would possibly be ambiguous, and skeletal interpretation, without support by actual genetic sampling, is largely built on taking what the skeleton suggests. So if the hybrid came out looking more in line with a member of Homo Sapiens, we would very probably interpret it as Homo Sapiens, rather than even register the possibility of a hybrid unless there was a strong signifier that prompted scrutiny.

I may be wrong but I think there is none in african population which points to a hybridation after homo sapiens left africa.
The fact that there is some in asian and european population would point to this hybridation main place being middle east.

For reference, the range of neanderthals:

Which is actually pretty easy for proliferation throughout Eurasia, when one realises Homo Sapiens would have to follow a similar spread in leaving Africa, because the desert sucks when you're a nomadic culture and haven't built your civilisation around accounting for it.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

This occurs in Africa naturally.

Huh where?

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Yes.

Well, it aint any weirder than this

 

[adamsappel]

do you mean Homo heidelbergensis?

Say my name.

 

[M3d10n]

Yes.

Not bad, I've seen far worse looking sapiens that had no trouble getting some. That guy would have no problem making some hybrids.

 

[Eclectic Sk3ptic]

Can we stop using the word "theory" in a scientific context to mean hypothesis? A theory contains the entire model, and that includes facts.

Thank you. That needs to be said again, and again.

OP, it's like you said, there's plenty of DNA evidence to back it up.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Also people on Sardinia and Tuscans have more neanderthal DNA.

 

[Lamel]

If people are interested in a basic run through of this, the walking with cavemen series by BBC is very nice!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I believe we have yet to find the missing link, let alone the missing links sexual foray.

That hasn't been true since the 1890s. At that time, the descent of humans and the great apes from a common ancestor had been theorised but never corroborated by fossil evidence. The so-called "missing link" was predicted to be a human specimen with more ape-like features (or, alternatively an ape specimen with conspicuously human traits) and this was borne out by the discovery of the first Homo Erectus specimen.

The "missing link" meme though, stuck around, especially in creationist circles, despite the discovery of many more early hominid specimens and a wide array of speciation.