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New GOW interview: 'This isn't a game like UT where we want 60 frames per second'
- Thread starter Izzy
- Start date
A game need not be high speed in order to benefit from 60 fps. I'm going for the PC version of Indigo Prophecy simply because I can run it at 60 fps. Do you really think that game needs 60 fps? 
Not a big problem, though. I always prefer 60, but I can live with 30.
Not a big problem, though. I always prefer 60, but I can live with 30.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
I for one am glad Epic considers GOW a work of art....hopefully this kind of thinking will inspire them to lavish as much attention to detail as possible on this game....
I have always wondered this myself...Kangu said:
I mean, PS2 is the weakest machine of the three current consoles...but has the highest percentage of 60 fps titles. Most of those are Japanese titles (though, a lot of Sony's US studios love the 60 as well). XBOX, with its heavy western support, was like the 30 fps box. However, most of its big Japanese games were 60 fps...
I really don't understand why so many western developers act as if 60 fps isn't important.
Question: In your estimation how long do you think it will take to beat the single player portion of the game?
Were planning the game point A to point B start to finish; my goal is to make it entertaining and worth $50. That means start to finish, cool moments. So were not willing to commit what time that will be I just know as a designer Im not a fan of padding in games where they are like ahh our game is not long enough lets copy this level and flip it and make it so now you have to go all the way back to your chopper and Im like alright already! So I would rather have new scenario where new things happen and make it entertaining so thats my design philosophy for it.
good, padding games sux. but they kinda avoided the question, hopefully the game isn't too short...
Were planning the game point A to point B start to finish; my goal is to make it entertaining and worth $50. That means start to finish, cool moments. So were not willing to commit what time that will be I just know as a designer Im not a fan of padding in games where they are like ahh our game is not long enough lets copy this level and flip it and make it so now you have to go all the way back to your chopper and Im like alright already! So I would rather have new scenario where new things happen and make it entertaining so thats my design philosophy for it.
good, padding games sux. but they kinda avoided the question, hopefully the game isn't too short...
because to most western gamers its not, who grew up pc gamers
truly i would far rather have omfgwtfbbq 30 fps, than omg 60 fps
Long as it's stable at 30 that's all that matters. More FPS dosen't really make the game look more "pretty" imo, i'd rather have more effects etc.. on screen. of course different folks have different preferences
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
As long as the framerate is stable I don't really care if it is 30 or 60fps. The difference has never really bothered me at all.
I dunno, for me it's like...GashPrex said:
You have a game with graphics that I'd rate at 9/10 and another with graphics I'd rate at 8/10. If you bumped the 8/10 game up to 60 fps, though, I'd probably be inclined to rate it at 11/10 instead, as a high framerate enhances the visuals so much for me.
However, 60 fps does not always mean the visuals will fail to impress. MGS4 demo ran at 60 fps, and that framerate is what increased its impact ten fold.
A lot of the most impressive looking games this gen actually did run at 60 fps, though. It seems that there is often a correlation between 60 fps and great visuals. Those teams know what they are doing and can go the extra mile.
Was that a PR guy from Epic interviewed? 'Cause he doesn't seem to know shit about technology :lol
Since when does 60fps imply the game has to be fast moving?
And what the hell does 'over 30fps' mean? Last time I checked, the only frequency over 30 99% of TV's can scan is 60.
Since when does 60fps imply the game has to be fast moving?
And what the hell does 'over 30fps' mean? Last time I checked, the only frequency over 30 99% of TV's can scan is 60.
GashPrex said:
Did we grow up in the same PC world? From my experience PC gamers have been the most picky regarding 60fps ever. I mean why were people upgrading their 3d cards every two years? Because they wanted to play the latest PC game at 60fps and not 20-30fps on their current card. PC gamers are huge framerate whores, so you'd think Xbox players would be too, but for some reason Xbox gamers don't seem to care :\
GhaleonEB said:Sale -1
Seriously, WTF is wrong with these guys? Didn't they say just a few weeks ago that they were only using one core, and now they can't even get it up to 60fps?
No excuse going into next gen.
no he made it clear that even if they get it to 60 fps they will add more
this is a choice by them
PC gamers will tell you that, but if you watch most PC gamers play, you'll find that they are playing without v-sync and, despite averaging over 100 fps, they'll spent plenty of time flucuating around.Bebpo said:
Getting over 60 fps without v-sync just doesn't look very nice. The newest PC games aren't going to run at 60 + v-sync even with the fastest hardware on the market.
They THINK they are framerate whores, but that's not the reality.
Right, but if you aren't 30, your 60...unless v-sync is disabled, and then you have a mess.
Going from 30 to 60 to 30 is a terrible idea and looks awful.
Bebpo said:
yeah we did, but in my expierence pc games have always had fluctuations in fps, unlike how they lock them in consoles. i mean how many times growing up did you play a pc game just meeting the low end requirements and watching the game chug along while playing? just so you could play the game without buying more memory/3d card/processer. That dosen't happen in console gaming.
edit: and add in what darkx10 said about the v-sync issue
Kangu said:
If the target's 'maintaining 30 FPS while squeezing all the effects we can out of the X360', then yes. Seems the guys at Epic feel that playability won't be impaired by the framerate since it's a slower-paced game than UT, and the atmosphere they can generate with the added effects is more important to them than the 60 FPS 'look'. For this particular game, I might be inclined to agree with them.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Just make a solid 30 fps and it's fine if they want the high visual integrity, as it stands it this game easily beats all other X360 games hands down in looks 60 or 30 fps.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
dark10x said:
The GTA series, Jade Empire, Mercenaries, Hulk Ultimate Destruction, Destroy all Humans (just looking at the games near me at the moment). They are not locked at any framerate yet feature no tearing. I don't see whats so hard to grasp about variable framerates on tv. Framerate does not have to be tied directly to refresh rate (if you use triple buffering).
i agree with the fps comment (cliffy b's). a slow paced game like gears of war doesnt need to be 60 fps. and like hes saying, IMO a 30 fps build with more post-processing effects would be better then a 60 fps build without those effects.
there is always a trade off for frame rate folks. some games the trade off makes sense, others, not so much. of course its all relatively subjective, so feel free to argue
there is always a trade off for frame rate folks. some games the trade off makes sense, others, not so much. of course its all relatively subjective, so feel free to argue
Suburban Cowboy
Member
lol, ya. its somewhere closer to 100-120 fps
Error Macro
Member
trmas said:
Eh, you want them to run with v-sync off? You can't go past 60 fps.
well, IMO, the fact is: did you ever see a game running costantly at 30 fps in ANY situation?
take an action game like Prince Of Persia, not very fast paced, sometimes it requires for jumping sessions, sometimes it has combat moments, but everytime you need smoothness and I really think 30 fps cannot ever give you that smoothness your eyes really need!
now take a racing game: are we seriously speaking about "acceptable" 30 fps??? Come on tell me you can play at Forza Motorsport without even thinking: "hey those lame programmers weren't capable of squeezing out a 60 fps game at the end of the xbox damned life!!!". And while you are thinking at that you smash your car on the wall for the lack of...guess what! SMOOTHNESS!!!
I would like to remember everybody that 60fps means SMOOTHNESS and that SMOOTHNESS means PRECISION and CONTROL in everygame and every situation! that's why I think in the next gen we HAVE to pretend 60 fps, ALWAYS! And please do not throw in the excuse that sacrificing frames for graphics is what people want! This is only what a lazy programmer wants!
take an action game like Prince Of Persia, not very fast paced, sometimes it requires for jumping sessions, sometimes it has combat moments, but everytime you need smoothness and I really think 30 fps cannot ever give you that smoothness your eyes really need!
now take a racing game: are we seriously speaking about "acceptable" 30 fps??? Come on tell me you can play at Forza Motorsport without even thinking: "hey those lame programmers weren't capable of squeezing out a 60 fps game at the end of the xbox damned life!!!". And while you are thinking at that you smash your car on the wall for the lack of...guess what! SMOOTHNESS!!!
I would like to remember everybody that 60fps means SMOOTHNESS and that SMOOTHNESS means PRECISION and CONTROL in everygame and every situation! that's why I think in the next gen we HAVE to pretend 60 fps, ALWAYS! And please do not throw in the excuse that sacrificing frames for graphics is what people want! This is only what a lazy programmer wants!
arrarro said:
like i said, certain games framerate is more important then others. racing and fighting games should definitely sacrafice some graphical effects or whatever to achieve 60fps, locked. no doubt about it (though 30 fps doesnt ruin these games either).
a game like halo, or gears of war is much slower paced. 30 frames works just fine, and the extra power should be used for more effects/ai/physics. this will probably be even more true then it is now with all the fancy motion blur stuff dev's a re using.
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
GashPrex said:
Not that it has anything to do with the topic either way, but I seriously doubt this.
edit- That most gamers grew up PC gamers part I mean
fortified_concept
Banned
So their claims that the game runs only on 1 core were bullshit or it's just that there's isn't much difference between using one core and all three cores on 360? I read the interview and the whole "we want to add more effects" seems like an excuse to me. Anyway imo for a game like GoW 30 frames are tolerable.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
GhaleonEB said:It's the "if" part I object to. Lock it at 60, then build from there adding nothing that will break it. I just really thought this gen would be the last one with crappy framerates. Naive am I.
I don't think we'll ever see perfect framerates every time. Atleast not until we have mroe system power than we have use for. That won't happen for a LOOOONG time.
Why do you think their claims are bullshit? They even re-state that it's running on one core in the interview. And why do you think that means theres not much difference?
"We want to add more effects" is not an excuse, it's realising your goal ahead of time and trying to maximize what you can get out of certain concessions that you decide to make early on. They decided that 30fps is enough for the game, and they are going to fill those 30fps with as much detail as they can.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
dark10x said:
They put a cap on the framerate so it wouldn't vary so wildly. No technical reason it was capped.
Of course it maxes out at 60, tvs can't show more than that. The point i'm trying to make is that games don't have to be capped at 30 or 60 and don't have to have tearing if they don't cap the framerate (next gen consoles should be more than capable of doing triple buffering).
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
dark10x said:So, would you say, if you were using triple buffering on a PC game with v-sync enabled, you'd be able to achieve a framerate between 30 fps and 60 fps?
I've tried it...and it doesn't happen (if the framerate can't hold 60, it goes to 30).
It DOES happen. My average framerate in WoW is around 40-50fps. If you enable it and you are jumping between 30 and 60, then triple buffering is not working. In guild wars and city of heroes on my old system with an ATI card, i would force triple buffering in opengl and the frame rate would vary in increments between 30 and 60, but on my new system with my geforce 6600 gt (which has no triple buffering forcing option) the framerates in both those games jump between 30 and 60. That is what triple buffering is for, allows you to use v-sync and not have the frame rate jump between 60 30 15 etc...