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New Pope elected. Young (76), and from South America. Takes Pope Name "Francis"

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Asking for respect isn't wrong, but the pope and the church doesn't deserve it.

Why should anyone respect the Catholic Church? We're talking about centuries of child rape. How is that not the most vile and decrepit shit ever? And this institution claims to be a moral compass? Please.

I won't even get into how many people have been burned at the stake for all kinds "heresy" either. The systemic child rape pretty much takes the fucking cake.
 

G-Unit

Member
The church's system of secrecy and being above the law is why it was so easy to abuse people for centuries and why it still is. And people put money in the coffers. So no, the entire thing has to be criticized.

And lets ignore the good things just because. I'm sorry, this is like lefties-antimperialist in the world accusing america of all the bads in the world. Thats just bull shit. This is a grey world whether we like it or not.

This is kind of the point the "haters" are trying to make.

Where? plz explain
 
Why should anyone respect the Catholic Church? We're talking about CENTURIES OF CHILD RAPE. How is that not the most vile and decrepit shit ever? And this institution claims to be a moral compass? Please.

I won't even get into how many people have been burned at the stake for all kinds "heresy" either. The systemic child rape pretty much takes the fucking cake.

Fixed, for respect.
 
And lets ignore the good things just because. I'm sorry, this is like lefties-antimperialist in the world accusing america of all the bads in the world. Thats just bull shit. This is a grey world whether we like it or not.

Are you trying to tell me that the good makes up for child rape?
 

Talon

Member
The church's system of secrecy and being above the law is why it was so easy to abuse people for centuries and why it still is. And people put money in the coffers. So no, the entire thing has to be criticized.
And, again, you have a grave misunderstanding of how the Catholic Church operates.

These Diocese across the world aren't lorded down from above and showered with extravagant funds. Each sets its own budgets and relies on independent finances from take-in and tithes.

The Catholic Church does tremendous good in poor areas of the United States, meeting gaps that aren't met. There's the Order of Bons Secours which is a sisterhood of nuns that focuses on providing healthcare and education to the poor. There are the Jesuits that have set up schools all across urban centers.

The Abuse scandal is terrible, and I think every Catholic you'd ask about it is tremendously ashamed that the church has yet to fully answer for those crimes in a satisfactory way. It's a huge shortfalling of JPII, and I hope we get clear answers under Pope Francis.

Religion is not purely evil or purely good for that matter. Like everything, it's a mix of both. At the base, social level, it's a powerful community-building entity for immigrants. I've seen it as a second generation Korea, where churches and congregations (again, I'm Protestant) support parishioners that are most in need when they have nobody else to turn to.
 
And lets ignore the good things just because. I'm sorry, this is like lefties-antimperialist in the world accusing america of all the bads in the world. Thats just bull shit. This is a grey world whether we like it or not.

You don't need the Catholic Church for any good they allegedly did. It's not necessary. So if you want an organization that gives to charity, how about having that organization without the baggage of being homophobic, pro-AIDS, and factually inaccurate on the way the universe works?
 

Caboose

Member
And lets ignore the good things just because. I'm sorry, this is like lefties-antimperialist in the world accusing america of all the bads in the world. Thats just bull shit. This is a grey world whether we like it or not.
The bad things are way worse than the supposed good things.

Edit: I do sense bans in this thread if we're not able to keep our cool. I mean that in a general sense, hopefully nobody says anything they'll regret later on.
 

Gotchaye

Member
I still find odd how liberal Mods are regarding such posts in this thread. Just look at a few pages to see what I'm talking.

It's one thing to have a different view or opinion, I support this 100% but offending, cursing and just post random rude things is okay?

It seems to be okay like that in a Religion thread, I remember a GAFfer on the "Show us your gaming setup: 2013 Edition" (a thread I do like to get inspiration from) getting banned because he said the someone's setup looked like a "gay sitcom" and after that he apologized but people kept hitting on him. He was banned. Some things in here made people ultra offended and Mods will ban those, on religion threads seems very different.

Again, quotes would be nice. But, look, clearly a thread about Catholicism isn't about religion as a private belief. The Catholic Church is a huge institution with a whole lot of power over people who disagree with it, either because they are themselves Catholic and feel some obligation to the Church or because they happen to live somewhere where Catholics have some degree of political power and where the Church as an institution may wield substantial economic power. Criticizing Catholicism is thus a lot like criticizing a country's government, and on this forum you can get away with some pretty strongly worded attacks on the US government as an entity, for example. Likewise you can get away with strong criticism of people who support a government that's doing things you don't like. It's really the same idea here. Catholicism is political. There's no way around it.
 
John Wayne Gacy did a lot of good work for charities and civic organizations.

Its one thing to criticize Catholicism, but I have seen on this forum people who are even remotely religious be called "cave dwellers", met with applause.

You are free to note such examples and forward them to a mod.
 
And lets ignore the good things just because. I'm sorry, this is like lefties-antimperialist in the world accusing america of all the bads in the world. Thats just bull shit. This is a grey world whether we like it or not.

They enabled the rape of children for years, covered it up and protected pedophiles. They took time out of their Christmas day speach to tell the world it's greatest threat is homosexuality. It doesn't get much more black and white.

They don't deserve any respect.
 

Arcteryx

Member
You don't need the Catholic Church for any good they allegedly did. It's not necessary. So if you want an organization that gives to charity, how about having that organization without the baggage of being homophobic, pro-AIDS, and factually inaccurate on the way the universe works?

DING DING DING DING

We have a winner!
 
And, again, you have a grave misunderstanding of how the Catholic Church operates.

These Diocese across the world aren't lorded down from above and showered with extravagant funds. Each sets its own budgets and relies on independent finances from take-in and tithes.

The Catholic Church does tremendous good in poor areas of the United States, meeting gaps that aren't met. There's the Order of Bons Secours which is a sisterhood of nuns that focuses on providing healthcare and education to the poor. There are the Jesuits that have set up schools all across urban centers.

The Abuse scandal is terrible, and I think every Catholic you'd ask about it is tremendously ashamed that the church has yet to fully answer for those crimes in a satisfactory way.

However, to throw the baby out with the bathwater is just absurd.

Religion is not purely evil or purely good for that matter. Like everything, it's a mix of both. At the base, social level, it's a powerful community-building entity for immigrants. I've seen it as a second generation Korea, where churches and congregations (again, I'm Protestant) support parishioners that are most in need when they have nobody else to turn to.

Any other institution with such a blatant disregard for the humanity of others would have been taken to task for its utter disgusting ass hypocrisy but people have been complacent in these abuses and still line the pockets of the same fucks who covered it all up. You don't get to pretend that some charities and orphanages (you know the same fucking ones where kids were abused) makes up for systemic raping of children.
 
Wasn't Dudebro's side kick name Habemus Chicken?

Edit - Yes it is!

http://www.giantbomb.com/habemus-chicken/3005-13915/

8lsHUnW.jpg
 
Lol, I figured the thread would end this way sooner or later. Well to those that talked about the Papacy and were genuinely interested, that was a nice discussion, as I have said before, it was a good run, and some of the jokes were quite good. Back to the TF2 thread!
 
Asking for respect isn't wrong, but the pope and the church doesn't deserve it.

This Pope hasn't even taken office for a full day. What we do know of him is that he really fought for the poor, actually talked and ate with them, and has called out the church for being hypocritical at times: focusing on a few things while neglecting others.

Even though he is a bit old, he could be the first to really change things.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Do you actually believe the majority of the people in vatican right now condone child abuse? Seriously speaking

Do you seriously believe the majority of people in the US government condone killing non-combatants in Pakistan?

Probably not, in both cases. And yet as institutions the Catholic Church has been remarkably consistent about covering up some really atrocious stuff and the US government has shown a whole lot of willingness to kill lots of innocent people. That's why we talk about these things as institutional problems.
 

Talon

Member
John Wayne Gacy did a lot of good work for charities and civic organizations.
Holy. Shit.

Really?
Any other institution with such a blatant disregard for the humanity of others would have been taken to task for its utter disgusting ass hypocrisy but people have been complacent in these abuses and still line the pockets of the same fucks who covered it all up. You don't get to pretend that some charities and orphanages (you know the same fucking ones where kids were abused) makes up for systemic raping of children.
How has the Catholic Church not been taken to task for this?

And don't you be slinging mud at nuns, devo.
 

The_Monk

Member
Again, quotes would be nice.

I did quote earlier in the thread fellow GAFfer and the person I quoted was quoted by more than one person I believe. No need to re-quote again, all the rude things posted, I was just stating my opinion in a polite manner. I understand people, not liking, be against and hating things and if some GAFfers don't want to respect something than at least respect the other fellow GAFfers.

After all this is still a Community, right? ;)
 
Are you telling me there is no point to try to do nice things in this world? Because if so be gone. I'll die trying if you don't mind.

This is the most ridiculous straw man I've seen in a while and Freezie already made the point that one does not need the Catholic Church to do "the necessary good." You and others will never placate people like me with "well they have charities" especially since those same charities were ways to exploit children.
 

G-Unit

Member
You don't need the Catholic Church for any good they allegedly did. It's not necessary. So if you want an organization that gives to charity, how about having that organization without the baggage of being homophobic, pro-AIDS, and factually inaccurate on the way the universe works?

And you think there is no evil in other organizations right?... don't be so naive.
 
You don't need the Catholic Church for any good they allegedly did. It's not necessary. So if you want an organization that gives to charity, how about having that organization without the baggage of being homophobic, pro-AIDS, and factually inaccurate on the way the universe works?
What does the last part even mean
 
This is the most ridiculous straw man I've seen in a while and Freezie already made the point that one does not need the Catholic Church to do "the necessary good." You and others will never placate people like me with "well they have charities" especially since those same charities were ways to exploit children.

All of them, really? Talk about hyperbole.

I guess all that aid the U.N. gives is only given if some oil is given back in return.
 
And you think there is no evil in other organizations right?... don't be so naive.

Ah, so as long as there may be evil being conducted by other organizations, then the child rape industry gets a pass.

I'm saying "Really" at you for drawing an absurd parallel between a serial killer and the Catholic Church.

You may try to convince me of the absurdity, but I won't take it on your word.

To be fair, Gacy didn't harm as many kids and he is dead.
 
All of them, really? Talk about hyperbole.

I guess all that aid the U.N. gives is only given if some oil is given back in return.

Who said all of them? It's well known their orphanages were places of abuse. So trying to say "well they did good" when some of the very things set up were places of horror and abuse for children is pretty damn sad.
 

Foxix Von

Member
You don't need the Catholic Church for any good they allegedly did. It's not necessary. So if you want an organization that gives to charity, how about having that organization without the baggage of being homophobic, pro-AIDS, and factually inaccurate on the way the universe works?

Huh?

EDIT: To clarify I understand the outraged points you're trying to make in the previous statements but the bolded has me scratching my head. What are you referencing here? The belief in a deity?
 
This Pope hasn't even taken office for a full day. What we do know of him is that he really fought for the poor, actually talked and ate with them, and has called out the church for being hypocritical at times: focusing on a few things while neglecting others.

Even though he is a bit old, he could be the first to really change things.

He called gay marriage 'demonic in origin', a 'destructive pretension against the plan of God'. He insists that adoption of children by gay couples is discrimination against children.

The pope doesn't deserve respect.
 
He called gay marriage 'demonic in origin', a 'destructive pretension against the plan of God'. He insists that adoption of children by gay couples is discrimination against children.

The pope doesn't deserve respect.

Yup.

Stop putting bigots up on pedestals then wondering why people don't like your religious organization.
 

G-Unit

Member
This is the most ridiculous straw man I've seen in a while and Freezie already made the point that one does not need the Catholic Church to do "the necessary good." You and others will never placate people like me with "well they have charities" especially since those same charities were ways to exploit children.

well better read what you write then, because things are so bad that we should just give up according to you. Maybe you are a quitter or something and this helps you reinforce your choice.

For me, I see huge mistakes in my church. Painful ones. But then I stop to see the good people that has no fault in this. The ones that really try to change this world for the good.


So if you wanna deny the good parts, suit yourself.
 
well better read what you write then, because things are so bad that we should just give up according to you. Maybe you are a quitter or something and this helps you reinforce your choice.

For me, I see huge mistakes in my church. Painful ones. But then I stop to see the good people that has no fault in this. The ones that really try to change this world for the good.


So if you wanna deny the good parts, suit yourself.

Quitter? What did I happen to quit?
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
well better read what you write then, because things are so bad that we should just give up according to you. Maybe you are a quitter or something and this helps you reinforce your choice.

For me, I see huge mistakes in my church. Painful ones. But then I stop to see the good people that has no fault in this. The ones that really try to change this world for the good.


So if you wanna deny the good parts, suit yourself.

Condemning a church for wrongdoing doesn't imply denial of its accomplishments. People know that most religions offer tangible benefits to society. It's beside the point in the case of the Catholic Church and it's problems.
 
well better read what you write then, because things are so bad that we should just give up according to you. Maybe you are a quitter or something and this helps you reinforce your choice.

For me, I see huge mistakes in my church. Painful ones. But then I stop to see the good people that has no fault in this. The ones that really try to change this world for the good.


So if you wanna deny the good parts, suit yourself.

The "good people" should leave the church then instead of propping up bigots and child molesters.
 

Threi

notag
Oh, this happened one time?

Ok.
Well, I actually do like to partake in discussions on religion (with all criticisms as well), but no matter how open minded I am blatant disrespect is a huge no-no for me.

I live by this rule, and I think many people do as well. I also think it is the most effective way of getting your point across.

What is weird to me is how obvious the above is...you would think that if people were truly committed to getting people to change their views (since it is very true that the Catholic Church has some serious baggage that they need to be held accountable for and not simply swept under the rug) they would adhere to it as well. It makes me wonder what they are really arguing for.
 
Who said all of them? It's well known their orphanages were places of abuse. So trying to say "well they did good" when some of the very things set up were places of horror and abuse for children is pretty damn sad.

I don't deny that some orphanages, parishes, archdioceses and the like were heavy hit with pedophilia, and those supposed men of the cloth need to be given up to face justice.
 
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