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New Study About Gay/Straight Brains

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My brain is like Denzel's face.

Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," she says.

Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people's responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.

Brain symmetry

To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.

"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.

First they used MRI scans to find out the overall volume and shapes of brains in a group of 90 volunteers consisting of 25 heterosexuals and 20 homosexuals of each gender.

The results showed that straight men had asymmetric brains, with the right hemisphere slightly larger – and the gay women also had this asymmetry. Gay men, meanwhile, had symmetrical brains like those of straight women.


The team next used PET scans to measure blood flow to the amygdala, part of the brain that governs fear and aggression. The images revealed how the amygdala connected to other parts of the brain, giving clues to how this might influence behaviour.

Depression link

They found that the patterns of connectivity in gay men matched those of straight women, and vice versa (see image, above right). In straight women and gay men, the connections were mainly into regions of the brain that manifest fear as intense anxiety.

"The regions involved in phobia, anxiety and depression overlap with the pattern we see from the amygdala," says Savic.

This is significant, she says, and fits with data showing that women are three times as likely as men to suffer from mood disorders or depression. Gay men have higher rates of depression too, she says, but it's difficult to know whether this is down to biology, homophobia or simply feelings of being "different".

In straight men and lesbians, the amygdala fed its signals mainly into the sensorimotor cortex and the striatum, regions of the brain that trigger the "fight or flight" response. "It's a more action-related response than in women," says Savic.

'Striking differences'

"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.

"The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."

"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences (pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.

But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are inherited, or result from abnormally high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone.

gaybrain.jpg


http://www.newscientist.com/channel...he-opposite-sex.html?feedId=online-news_rss20

Anyway, I think more studies with larger test groups will be necessary, but interesting results.
 
Propagandhim said:
We finally have our answer boys.

Now how are we going to fund this mandated brain surgery?

I was thinking something along these lines. It's the whole thing with the Human Genome Project. Once people figure out what causes homosexuality, they will almost definitely take steps to ensure that it is eradicated. Big right side of the brain makes you like women? Guys get that. Symmetry makes you attracted to men? Women get the same sided brains.
 

Dali

Member
Skiptastic said:
I was thinking something along these lines. It's the whole thing with the Human Genome Project. Once people figure out what causes homosexuality, they will almost definitely take steps to ensure that it is eradicated. Big right side of the brain makes you like women? Guys get that. Symmetry makes you attracted to men? Women get the same sided brains.
If this were possible do you think gay couples would opt for their lab-created embryo to be gay? Do you think that specific alteration would even be legal?

:lol :lol

O brave new world that has such people in it.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
I think this is a VERY interesting find. I also think that people who are anti-gay will not care at all.

A coworker of mine has this "almost anti-gay" stance. He doesn't straight out hate them but they make him shudder and somehow disgust him. I could never, for the life of it, understand why.
 

AKingNamedPaul

I am Homie
FoxSpirit said:
I think this is a VERY interesting find. I also think that people who are anti-gay will not care at all.

A coworker of mine has this "almost anti-gay" stance. He doesn't straight out hate them but they make him shudder and somehow disgust him. I could never, for the life of it, understand why.
insecure about himself and or his own sexuality.
 
Propagandhim said:
We finally have our answer, boys.




Now how are we going to fund this mandated brain surgery?


Lets assume that the enviroment affects brain development in the womb..........like perhaps so called "eviromental estrogens" which are elements that cause the body to produce estrogen or estrogen like substances once exposed.

We know these substances to exist (eviromental estrogens although we have no clue about brain development) and many enviromentalists want them gone for the sake of mens health. Would these same enviromentalists protest the release of these toxins into the atmosphere if they felt it could affect childhood brains and turn some kids gay?

I think some wouldn't.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
FootNinja said:
insecure about himself and or his own sexuality.

The problem is, I don't have the feeling he is. He is a rather simple, down to earth guy, rather friendly with only a small streak of "wth, I don't care". I usually deem myself a pretty accurate guesser of people, at least after a brief time, and my senses tell me it's not that.

I wonder what it could be.
 
Interesting stuff.

A semi-related story is the movement within the deaf community to oppose research into the various causes of deafness, for fear of losing deaf culture.

I suppose if we let anyone make choices about their fetus, we should not bar parents from choosing or rejecting certain attributes. I think a world without gays would be less fun (not that anyone could totally wipe out a trait that is expressed so often in the population).
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
FootNinja said:
insecure about himself and or his own sexuality.

Can't he just be uncomfortable with it?

I'm very VERY gay friendly. I was raised by lesbians and gay men. Yet I STILL get very very very uncomfortable when a relationship gets a little too intimate with a gay man. It's instant too, like it's a brain function.
 
Sol.. said:
Can't he just be uncomfortable with it?

I'm very VERY gay friendly. I was raised by lesbians and gay men. Yet I STILL get very very very uncomfortable when a relationship gets a little too intimate with a gay man. It's instant too, like it's a brain function.


Your hard wired to not like it. It is why you are straight. Your socialized to accept the behavior but hardwired to not care for the sight of it. It is perfectly normal and not bigoted at all.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
Lets assume that the enviroment affects brain development in the womb..........like perhaps so called "eviromental estrogens" which are elements that cause the body to produce estrogen or estrogen like substances once exposed.

We know these substances to exist and many enviromentalists want them gone for the sake of mens health. Would these same enviromentalists protest the release of these toxins into the atmosphere if they felt it could affect childhood brains and turn some kids gay?

I think some wouldn't.

Wow... just wow. I mean, I see what you did there. In broad daylight. That's perhaps the most retarded linking of things I have ever seen.

Environmentalists are against enviromental estrogens, but some environmentalists actually want the world to become gay and therefore wouldn't protest the release of environmental estrogens into the environment anymore if those would have that effects.

I don't know if I should be shocked or amazed. o_O
 

Anth

Member
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
Your hard wired to not like it. It is why you are straight. Your socialized to accept the behavior but hardwired to not care for the sight of it. It is perfectly normal and not bigoted at all.
Nah, I think it has more to do with the fact that most of society used to tell you that homosexuality (among men) is disgusting and horrible.

Of course you wouldn't care to get involved in it if you are completely straight, but I don't see any reason why you would need to get disgusted by it. Women tend to have a lot less problems with lesbians than men have with gays, which strongly suggests that homophobia is caused by society and not nature.

edit: In fact, look no further than ancient Greece. Judaism (and its more influential offshots, Christianity and Islam) is probably the main causes for homophobia.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
So Gay men are actually women stuck in a man's body and vice versa for lesbians? I think this research lends to the theory that homosexuality is a mental disorder.
 

Gaborn

Member
Well, studies similar to this have been around for years with various levels of credibility, it's interesting that yet another study has come up with basically the same result though :D

GSG Flash - Depends very heavily on how you define "mental disorder." Saying that the brains of lesbians are similar to straight men, and gay men to straight women isn't by itself evidence of a mental disorder, it just shows a similarity. It's also rather difficult to "treat" the established structure of a brain, it's just the way you're born with that structure.
 

Anth

Member
GSG Flash said:
So Gay men are actually women stuck in a man's body and vice versa for lesbians? I think this research lends to the theory that homosexuality is a mental disorder.
You mean in the same way that having black skin color is a skin disorder?

edit: Oh god, I hope most of you guys are kidding. Hollywood gave me a wrong impression of the US. :(
 
Propagandhim said:
We finally have our answer, boys.




Now how are we going to fund this mandated brain surgery?


Differences in brain structure in gay/straight people isn't exactly new. Any gay person is going to tell you its biological.

/canofworms


We are so close to a cure for homosexuality...this is awesome news.

straight men have the asymmetric brains. Seems like they need the cure.
 
FoxSpirit said:
Wow... just wow. I mean, I see what you did there. In broad daylight. That's perhaps the most retarded linking of things I have ever seen.

Environmentalists are against enviromental estrogens, but some environmentalists actually want the world to become gay and therefore wouldn't protest the release of environmental estrogens into the environment anymore if those would have that effects.

I don't know if I should be shocked or amazed. o_O


No I'm just saying they wouldn't want to be perceived as anti-gay as the basis of their opposition. That really isn't that shocking.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
I didn't think this was very new? I thought I've seen this before? But, I wonder what this says about bisexuals. Are there brains somewhere in between? And is this just a mutation, or is there something that triggers this? It's all very interesting, and I'm really excited about it, but this is just a piece of a very bigger picture.

And searching every religiously conservative blog I can find... nope, not one is carrying this story. Funny.
 
ivysaur12 said:
I didn't think this was very new? I thought I've seen this before? But, I wonder what this says about bisexuals. Are there brains somewhere in between? And is this just a mutation, or is there something that triggers this? It's all very interesting, and I'm really excited about it, but this is just a piece of a very bigger picture.

And searching every religiously conservative blog I can find... nope, not one is carrying this story. Funny.

I would think bisexuals would have symmetric brains similar to gays/women. Bisexual is more of a psychological stage where the gay is coming to terms with his sexual identity, a transition time. Bisexual more often than not means gay from my experience. *shrug*
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Teh Hamburglar said:
I would think bisexuals would have symmetric brains similar to gays/women. Bisexual is more of a psychological stage where the gay is coming to terms with his sexual identity, a transition time. Bisexual more often than not means gay from my experience. *shrug*

Not, not really. Actually, that's completely incorrect. Bisexuality is a sexual orientation. There are different levels of bisexuality, some being more attracted to females, some being more attracted to males, but make no mistake, it is a legitimate sexual orientation and has been proven though many scientific sudies.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Not, not really. Actually, that's completely incorrect. Bisexuality is a sexual orientation. There are different levels of bisexuality, some being more attracted to females, some being more attracted to males, but make no mistake, it is a legitimate sexual orientation and has been proven though many scientific sudies.

Thats why I put "I think" and "from my experiences" in my post.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
No I'm just saying they wouldn't want to be perceived as anti-gay as the basis of their opposition. That really isn't that shocking.

You'd have to be pretty insane to conclude that. I mean, you are against environmental pollution. No normal sane, gay man would label you as anti-gay because of that. Or... "only in America" :lol
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
The results showed that straight men had asymmetric brains, with the right hemisphere slightly larger – and the gay women also had this asymmetry. Gay men, meanwhile, had symmetrical brains like those of straight women.
Weren't straight men supposed to be more logical than women? ;)
 

Evlar

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
Not, not really. Actually, that's completely incorrect. Bisexuality is a sexual orientation. There are different levels of bisexuality, some being more attracted to females, some being more attracted to males, but make no mistake, it is a legitimate sexual orientation and has been proven though many scientific sudies.
Really?
 

McLovin

Member
Wow I wonder if MRIs are gonna be mandatory before getting married now. Lots of gay men married straight women in order to conform to society. Something like this would put a stop to that.. either this or we change our views on homosexuality.
 

AmMortal

Banned
.
So, basically they are saying, that Gay men think like women and Gay women think like men?


But, we've known that all along...
 
Count Dookkake said:
A semi-related story is the movement within the deaf community to oppose research into the various causes of deafness, for fear of losing deaf culture.

Gotta be shitting me. What "deaf culture"?
 
FoxSpirit said:
A coworker of mine has this "almost anti-gay" stance. He doesn't straight out hate them but they make him shudder and somehow disgust him. I could never, for the life of it, understand why.

Is he disgusted by gay people in general or only by their sexual activities? I think the later is pretty normal for straight men because that is what keeps us from fucking each other.

And it is to my knowledge the same for _completely_ gay people except the other way around. I once had a interesting conversation with a gay man who kinda was interested in me but i made it clear that i'm not into it. I asked him what he would think or feel if he sees a vagina. His reaction was to make a face like he just bit in a lemon and wave is arms like a bird... :lol
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
I think a lot like a women, from what I gather at least, but I still straight. Though I am completely unhomophobic, if this is weird for a male.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Steppenwolf said:
Is he disgusted by gay people in general or only by their sexual activities? I think the later is pretty normal for straight men because that is what keeps us from fucking each other.

And it is to my knowledge the same for _completely_ gay people except the other way around. I once had a interesting conversation with a gay man who kinda was interested in me but i made it clear that i'm not into it. I asked him what he would think or feel if he sees a vagina. His reaction was to make a face like he just bit in a lemon and wave is arms like a bird... :lol

Naw, also their behaviour. When I talk them that two guys hit on me at an imbiss, he found that totally groos and disgusting. I found that totally hilarous, especially since of of them was a total queen. But also funny. "Oh, with me sonny, touching is aaaaall allowed." :lol
 

Baryn

Banned
Skiptastic said:
I was thinking something along these lines. It's the whole thing with the Human Genome Project. Once people figure out what causes homosexuality, they will almost definitely take steps to ensure that it is eradicated. Big right side of the brain makes you like women? Guys get that. Symmetry makes you attracted to men? Women get the same sided brains.
So, overbearing mother concentration camps?
 

Mumei

Member
Steppenwolf said:
Is he disgusted by gay people in general or only by their sexual activities? I think the later is pretty normal for straight men because that is what keeps us from fucking each other.

And it is to my knowledge the same for _completely_ gay people except the other way around. I once had a interesting conversation with a gay man who kinda was interested in me but i made it clear that i'm not into it. I asked him what he would think or feel if he sees a vagina. His reaction was to make a face like he just bit in a lemon and wave is arms like a bird... :lol

You reminded me of this:

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=156268

Watch from about 2:55 - 3:45.

I love his reaction. Exactly mine. :lol
 

Mumei

Member
ivysaur12 said:

The interesting thing about his article was this:

"Regardless of whether the men were gay, straight or bisexual, they showed about four times more arousal" to one sex or the other, said Gerulf Rieger, a graduate psychology student at Northwestern and the study's lead author.

That's probably what people mean by "bisexual," I'd imagine. I, for instance, have never experienced arousal towards a female. However, someone who is bisexual might occasionally feel that way - but less often than they feel that way about other men (or vice-versa).

[/speculation]
 
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