Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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T-Cake said:
Fair enough but I'm still expecting the PS5 to come out worse in multiplatform games. Be nice if it didn't, however. Would make my life a lot easier with only having to buy one system. 😋
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The problem with that kind of believing is that also should mean the games will be a lot worse in XSS than just resolution.
 
~Fake said:
Is Lockhart more powerful than Xbox One X?
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From GPU perspective I would expect XSS to be at least on par with X1X with potential to be able to drive even more fps due to numerous fetures like mesh shading, VRS and DirectML upscaling. However, considering that XSS would target 1080p instead of 4K and has RT support, it will deliver tremendously better visuals than X1X.
From CPU perspective - 8 Zen 2 cores will completely obliterate 8 Jaguar cores, therefore you can expect significantly better AI and physics, more detailed environments and more stable framerates.
All in all, I expect XSS to be a true next-gen console, but at 1080p resolution.
 
Matt Evans said:
Chris Grannell is a developer who spent years contributing to games such as the futuristic racing game series WipEout and the smash hit Horizon: Zero Dawn.
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1q29bj-e1496262834711.jpg
 
DrKeo said:
....

Turning off parts of the GPU in order to make a lower-tier GPU from parts that didn't pass certification is extremely common, but there is a limit to how far you can push it. Turning off 4 CUs is very common and even 8 CUs happen here and there, but Lockheart's GPU will have to be at least half the CU count the XSX has if XSS is 4TF. When you turn off 4 CUs you improve yields considerably, but turning off 28 CUs (and probably a full SE and at least 128-bit worth of memory controllers) is a huge silicon waste. That's why the 5500 is a whole new chip, not a 5700XT with more CU disabled.

Lockheart will have a separate SOC, not the same one as XSX.
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I agree with your logic for it being a separate chip for lockhart, but if that is true then they will be killing the XsX (IMHO) and selling as a niche forgotten unit, because without mass volume the XsX hardware is just going to cost them in hardware and software development.

But that got me thinking... the old IBM server tecnique of shipping fully specced hardware that was limited by a hypervisor (to only deliver what was paid for) could make sense for Lockhart – if it is a cube without the optical drive guaranteeing higher profit on all games sold.
Xbox would just wait until yields of their chip were really high before launching lockhart, and because all the hardware was still in the box, the xss version of software would take as much from the hardware as needed to deliver the same game IQ at a lower resolution or frame rate, or lowering both. It would give Microsoft the chance to offer to unlock the XsX mode for the price difference of the consoles – like a Win10 Home to Win10 Pro upgrade on PC.
 
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Tetragrammaton_Knight said:
From GPU perspective I would expect XSS to be at least on par with X1X with potential to be able to drive even more fps due to numerous fetures like mesh shading, VRS and DirectML upscaling. However, considering that XSS would target 1080p instead of 4K and has RT support, it will deliver tremendously better visuals than X1X.
From CPU perspective - 8 Zen 2 cores will completely obliterate 8 Jaguar cores, therefore you can expect significantly better AI and physics, more detailed environments and more stable framerates.
All in all, I expect XSS to be a true next-gen console, but at 1080p resolution.
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Its is or not? If so, what was the Xbox One X launch price?
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Interesting old article:

don-mattrick-xbox-one_1280.0.jpg


Some Xbox 360 owners are dismayed that their collection of current-generation games won't work on the upcoming Xbox One. But Xbox head Don Mattrick is betting that they're in the vast minority. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Mattrick explained the decision not to focus on backwards-compatibility. According to him, only 5 percent of customers actually played older games on a new console, making it a low priority. "If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards," he said.

www.theverge.com

Microsoft’s Xbox head: ‘If you’re backwards compatible, you’re really backwards’

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com

I personally agree with him, no need to give too much attention to BC, we need to focus forward. FF7 is a good game, but it's clunky and you can't even jump, not liking it so much. We need to stop this remake BS and start pushing companies to show real new games not recycled ones. But the Don was savage.
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Quotes like these is why I'm SOOOO glad Don was fired! He's backwards and never had any idea of what he was talking about.
 
~Fake said:
Is Lockhart more powerful than Xbox One X?
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Supposedly Lockhart will be a 4 tflop console. While XB1X is 6 tflops. But Lockhart will be better in most, if not all, other areas.

At least that's the way I understand it.

And, I don't think Lockhart will cost over $299.99
 
sigrad77 said:
Supposedly Lockhart will be a 4 tflop console. While XB1X is 6 tflops. But Lockhart will be better in most, if not all, other areas.

At least that's the way I understand it.

And, I don't think Lockhart will cost over $299.99
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Lockhart is 4TF of RDNA 2.0 while Xbox One X is 6TF of GCN, right?
 
PaintTinJr said:
I agree with your logic for it being a separate chip for lockhart, but if that is true then they will be killing the XsX (IMHO) and selling as a niche forgotten unit, because without mass volume the XsX hardware is just going to cost them in hardware and software development.

But that got me thinking... the old IBM server tecnique of shipping fully specced hardware that was limited by a hypervisor (to only deliver what was paid for) could make sense for Lockhart – if it is a cube without the optical drive guaranteeing higher profit on all games sold.
Xbox would just wait until yields of their chip were really high before launching lockhart, and because all the hardware was still in the box, the xss version of software would take as much from the hardware as needed to deliver the same game IQ at a lower resolution or frame rate, or lowering both. It would give Microsoft the chance to offer to unlock the XsX mode for the price difference of the consoles – like a Win10 Home to Win10 Pro upgrade on PC.
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That's an interesting thought experiment. I think the costs would still be too high for them to make this a truly low-cost box though. Also, if they could activate the XSX mode via software at some point, I'm afraid that people would find a way to hack for the same result. I mean, who wouldn't want to pay $200 for a box and then unlock it 'for free' into the product that costs $500??

Interesting idea though, for sure.
 
~Fake said:
Its is or not? If so, what was the Xbox One X launch price?
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I'm not sure I understand the point of your questions. We can't say anything for sure as of now. We don't have exact specs of Lockhart. We don't know how efficient RDNA2 is compared to RDNA1/GCN to make proper performance extrapolation. We don't even know if Lockhart will be released at all.

So far leaks shown that Lockhart is a SOC having somewhere around 4.X TFlops, RDNA2 arc, $250 target price and most probably targeting 1080p resolution. X1X has 6TFlops of compute power on GCN 2.0 arc, targeted for 4K gaming and was priced $499 at release.
We do know that even RDNA1 is significantly more efficient in gaming compared to GCN arc (about 20-30%), so even 4TFlops of RDNA1 would be something around 5TFlops in GCN2.0, not far from 6TFlops of X1X. However XSS is expected to have RDNA2, which should be even more efficient as per AMD statements, could be that 4TFlops of RDNA2 is around 6Tflops of GCN 2.0. Then if we consider that Lockhart is probably not exactly 4TFlops, but, for example, 4.5Tflops - it would result in XSS being definitely more powerful than X1X, but not by any significant margin. Then if we add all the new features in RDNA 2.0 that can drive the performance beyond the raw processing power, most probably XSS will beat X1X by noticeable margin. And if we add that XSS will render at 1080p with RT, compared to X1X rendering at around 1800p, we can be almost certain that if XSS releases with the leaked specs then it will deliver visuals tremendously better than X1X can achieve right now.

But will it release? Will the specs match the leaks? We need to wait and see.
 
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Tetragrammaton_Knight said:
I'm not sure I understand the point of your questions. We can't say anything for sure as of now. We don't have exact specs of Lockhart. We don't know how efficient RDNA2 is compared to RDNA1/GCN to make proper performance extrapolation. We don't even know if Lockhart will be released at all.

So far leaks shown that Lockhart is a SOC having somewhere around 4.X TFlops, RDNA2 arc, $250 target price and most probably targeting 1080p resolution. X1X has 6TFlops of compute power on GCN 2.0 arc, targeted for 4K gaming and was priced $499 at release.
We do know that even RDNA1 is significantly more efficient in gaming compared to GCN arc (about 20-30%), so even 4TFlops of RDNA1 would be something around 5TFlops in GCN2.0, not far from 6TFlops of X1X. However XSS is expected to have RDNA2, which should be even more efficient as per AMD statements, could be that 4TFlops of RDNA2 is around 6Tflops of GCN 2.0. Then if we consider that Lockhart is probably not exactly 4TFlops, but, for example, 4.5Tflops - it would result in XSS being definitely more powerful than X1X, but not by any significant margin. Then if we add all the new features in RDNA 2.0 that can drive the performance beyond the raw processing power, most probably XSS will beat X1X by noticeable margin. And if we add that XSS will render at 1080p with RT, compared to X1X rendering at around 1800p, we can be almost certain that if XSS releases with the leaked specs then it will deliver visuals tremendously better than X1X can achieve right now.

But will it release? Will the specs match the leaks? We need to wait and see.
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If Lockhart is more powerful than Xbox One X, make a little of sense the price the other member speculate, so I don't get why the 'stop already' reply. They're quite valid.
 
~Fake said:
Is Lockhart more powerful than Xbox One X?
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In every possible way. But memory bandwidth might be lower considering it doesn't need to do 4K.

PaintTinJr said:
I agree with your logic for it being a separate chip for lockhart, but if that is true then they will be killing the XsX (IMHO) and selling as a niche forgotten unit, because without mass volume the XsX hardware is just going to cost them in hardware and software development.

But that got me thinking... the old IBM server tecnique of shipping fully specced hardware that was limited by a hypervisor (to only deliver what was paid for) could make sense for Lockhart – if it is a cube without the optical drive guaranteeing higher profit on all games sold.
Xbox would just wait until yields of their chip were really high before launching lockhart, and because all the hardware was still in the box, the xss version of software would take as much from the hardware as needed to deliver the same game IQ at a lower resolution or frame rate, or lowering both. It would give Microsoft the chance to offer to unlock the XsX mode for the price difference of the consoles – like a Win10 Home to Win10 Pro upgrade on PC.
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XSX actually has something like hypervisor, it can run 4 instances of BC games at the same time. I'm guessing it's a cloud feature to serve 4 XCloud customers at the same time but it could be a pretty awesome local feature too. Regarding XSS, I have trouble seeing anything other than a totally separate APU. Using the same hardware and Limiting power in order to sell different power SKUs only works when your business model is making money on the hardware itself. MS will lose money for each XSX so obviously they will lose a lot on XSS if it will use the same hardware. There is a lot in the XSX SOC that XSS doesn't need like about half of the CUs, a full SE, and at least 128-bit worth of memory controllers.
 
~Fake said:
If Lockhart is more powerful than Xbox One X, make a little of sense the price the other member speculate, so I don't get why the 'stop already' reply. They're quite valid.
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You don't make any sense. If you talk about the $300-350 price speculation, then how does it become valid if XSS is more powerful than X1X? XSS is the new gen targeted at 1080p not 4K, it is drive-less, so you can't watch Blu-rays on it, you can't buy physical disc games and then resell them. Also, it will be released at the end of this year and X1X prices already tumble down occasionally to $300 with one game in bundle. By the end of this year X1X will probably be sold at clearance price of $150-200.

Furthermore even at the end of the year X1X will be more expensive for MS to produce than XSS, because it would need a big almost fully functional chip, much more complex motherboard and PSU and a blu-ray drive (estimated $30 for drive only). The only thing I see in XSS that will definitely be more expensive than X1X are RAM chips, everything else will be cheaper.
And finally, proven leak showed that MS target price for XSS is $250. So how can it become $350 out of nowhere??? There are no valid reasons at the moment to speculate a $350 price. $300 maybe, but still no proof even for this price change. As I mentioned earlier, if Sony will be forced to move PS5 price from $400 to $450-500, then MS could move XSS price to $300 without hassle just to make more money on it, it will still sell like hot cakes. The only reasonable thing that can affect XSS price - is PS5 price and we need to see it first.
 
Tetragrammaton_Knight said:
You don't make any sense. If you talk about the $300-350 price speculation, then how does it become valid if XSS is more powerful than X1X? XSS is the new gen targeted at 1080p not 4K, it is drive-less, so you can't watch Blu-rays on it, you can't buy physical disc games and then resell them. Also, it will be released at the end of this year and X1X prices already tumble down occasionally to $300 with one game in bundle. By the end of this year X1X will probably be sold at clearance price of $150-200.
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Are you even listen yourself? Make the specs comparsion dude. '1080p not 4k'... wtf? 'it's drive-less'... already confirmed?
 
~Fake said:
Are you even listen yourself? Make the specs comparsion dude. '1080p not 4k'... wtf? 'it's drive-less'... already confirmed?
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Arguments please. And yes, the leaks mentioned no disc drive for XSS. And it makes total sense in order to achieve $250 target price. I have already went into lenghts describing how this pricing will work in my past posts, but you seem not to read anything that does not suit your agenda.
 
Tetragrammaton_Knight said:
Arguments please. And yes, the leaks mentioned no disc drive for XSS. And it makes total sense in order to achieve $250 target price. I have already went into lenghts describing how this pricing will work in my past posts, but you seem not to read anything that does not suit your agenda.
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You're not helping yourself neo member. Let people speculate while you do the same.
 
Would anyone be willing to start a relatively spoiler free gameplay impression and discussion thread?

I'm more interested in hearing/seeing snippets of somewhat story free gameplay.

*wrong thread*
 
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Let me get this straight. You give away a 10€ Blu-ray drive, but you still have a state of the art SSD and et voilà, cheapest console ever. What I am missing. I was specting a 500€ machine with a 60GB SATA drive because I couldn't believe that what was in the leaked devkits ended up in the console itself.
 
Off topic I know, but I'm really saddened by the Last of Us Part II leaks... Maybe Naughty Dog are to blame for the pissed off developer, if thats the reason for the leaks.... I've not spoiled it for myself, but the fact it's out there is disappointing. 🤔
 
Tetragrammaton_Knight said:
And finally, proven leak showed that MS target price for XSS is $250.
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I'm struggling to believe $250 or even $299 is possible for XSS:

XSS
APU 18(20CU) $72 (-40%)
RAM 12GB 14gbps $60 (-25%)
SSD 500GB $100* (-33%)
PSU $10
HSF $10
WIFI/BT/MISC CHIPS $15
CASE/ASSEMBLY $15
CONTROLLER $15$

Total $297 (+$15 if BD drive included)

*Based on Bloomberg estimate. May be way overestimated.

If it is targeted to be the mainstream seller then it can't really be the plan to lose a lot of money on it when a lot of the buyers don't buy lots of games/MT.
 
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