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[2MF]

From the "news I didn't expect to see today" department:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/world/europe/russia-norway-border-fence-refugees.html

OSLO — Norway is putting up a steel fence at a remote Arctic border post with Russia after an influx of migrants last year, sparking an outcry from refugees’ rights groups and fears that cross-border ties with the former Cold War adversary will be harmed.

The government says a new gate and a fence, about 660 feet long and 11 feet high and stretching from the Storskog border point, is needed to tighten security at a northern outpost of Europe’s passport-free Schengen zone.

For decades, the Nordic countries have been seen as reliable havens for asylum seekers.

But the erection of the fence, at a spot where 5,500 migrants mainly from Syria crossed into Norway last year, reflects a wider shift in public attitudes against refugees.

I wonder if the migrants won't just cross into Finland instead?

 

[How About No]

And it's gonna be great

 

[Hexa]

 

[rjc571]

But will it have tunnel detection and anti-ladder technology?

 

[Kayhan]

Make Norway great again.

 

[shira]

Стены только что получил 10 м выше

 

[DpadD]

Welp. GAF certainly delivered.

 

[Oberon]

But will they make Russia pay for it?

 

[Crayon]

Are they gonna make Russia pay for it?

 

[haxamin]

AND WHOSE GUNNA PAY FOR IT?

 

[Torokil]

Trump will take credit for this, for some reason.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

 

[2MF]

But will it have tunnel detection and anti-ladder technology?

If Trump loses the election maybe Norway can hire him as a wall consultant (along with all the tremendous people he's acquainted with).

 

[Engell]

Russia will see this as a clear aggressive move by NATO.

But honestly let Mexico pay for this shit, they are currently giving walls away.

 

[Kurdel]

So far this year, no one has sought asylum via the northern frontier, according to the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration.

Sounds like an opportunistic PR move to show how strong they are against the savage hordes pouring in form every possible entryway.

 

[injurai]

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Why do they need a fence with Russia? Seems dumb.

 

[Pancake Mix]

"Refugee rights groups"...uh, no. You're not entitled to cross international borders illegally, get out. Norway has the right to control its borders.

Why do they need a fence with Russia? Seems dumb.

Tiny border in a remote area (though not too far from the largest city in the Article Circle, Russia's Murmansk) with a much worse country. Very practical because it's a tiny border.

 

[Tugatrix]

Are we talking of Norway? like wtf are you doing Norway

 

[Pancake Mix]

Are we talking of Norway? like wtf are you doing Norway

Exercising their right to control entry. It's a good move.

 

[Miles X]

Are we talking of Norway? like wtf are you doing Norway

For real? I mean do you want free world movement or something?

 

[Lyn]

A Norwegian friend of mine linked me to some news about this region a while ago. Always thought it was interesting how people were buying bicycles in disrepair and wheeling across the border, then leaving them abandoned in huge piles for people to deal with.

 

[injurai]

Exercising their right to control entry. It's a good move.

Trump is that you?

 

[Pancake Mix]

A Norwegian friend of mine linked me to some news about this region a while ago. Always thought it was interesting how people were buying bicycles in disrepair and wheeling across the border, then leaving them abandoned in huge piles for people to deal with.

Yeah, just more proof that people are animals. Norway is well within their right to pick and choose who they want to allow in.

Trump is that you?

Oh give me a break, for one thing the US border with Mexico is enormous, Mexico is an ally, there are already a plethora of illegal Central American immigrants in the US, and for some reason that idiot thinks he can get that ally to pay for it. Also, he legitimately believes that most Mexicans aren't worthy of becoming Americans, which is not the right point of view. If it were small enough a border to be possible, he admitted that the US would pay for the fortifications, and had been more diplomatic, it would have been a good idea, but it's just not practical in 2016, there's way too much opposition and it'd be too expensive to make reliably.

Russia is an enemy of Norway (a member of NATO and the Schengen Region) and it's a tiny border. Also, no thanks to thousands of Syrian migrants who won't mesh with the mostly homogeneous Norwegian society. Norway should be able to let in and refuse who they want, that's sovereignty.

Additionally, Norway is probably the most reluctant Schengen Region member and not a member of the EU. Don't tell them what to think or make parallels with a very different region.

... What the hell? Why?

It's not surprising. There's no reason to assume unvetted migrants (many of whom are unattached males as it's easiest for them) are a good thing to bring in.

 

[N.Domixis]

Why do they need a fence with Russia? Seems dumb.

Obviously to keep all the Russian Mexicans out.

 

[norinrad]

A country with unlimited resources doing something silly, yep nothing new here. While they are at it, they should help Finland build one too.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

A Norwegian friend of mine linked me to some news about this region a while ago. Always thought it was interesting how people were buying bicycles in disrepair and wheeling across the border, then leaving them abandoned in huge piles for people to deal with.

... What the hell? Why?

 

[demon]

AND WHOSE GUNNA PAY FOR IT?

Mexico

They just can't catch a break.

 

[Miles X]

Yeah, just more proof that people are animals. Norway is well within their right to pick and choose who they want to allow in.



Oh give me a break, for one thing the US border with Mexico is enormous, Mexico is an ally, there are already a plethora of illegal Central American immigrants in the US, and for some reason that idiot thinks he can get that ally to pay for it. Also, he legitimately believes that most Mexicans aren't worthy of becoming Americans, which is not the right point of view. If it were small enough a border to be possible, he admitted that the US would pay for the fortifications, and had been more diplomatic, it would have been a good idea, but it's just not practical in 2016, there's way too much opposition and it'd be too expensive to make reliably.

Russia is an enemy of Norway (a member of NATO and the Schengen Region). Also, no thanks to thousands of Syrian migrants who won't mesh with the mostly homogeneous Norwegian society.

Don't expect intelligent coherent responses, most people with the "lol you must be Trump" posts likely don't have a clue and are just regurgating what they think is cool to say. There is already a bordern between Mexico and the US and never do you hear about it being an issue. It's Trump being Trump and his offensive language that is the disgusting thing about his wall talk, that and the absurdity of it.

 

[2MF]

Trump is that you?

Trump's wall idea is dumb for many reasons, but most people agree that none of those reasons is that borders are dumb and shouldn't be enforced.

 

[KurtSloane]

Trump is that you?

Nothing right wing about border control, countries have a right to defend their borders.

Letting in uncontrolled amounts is only a bad thing, resources and additional infrastructure just don't emerge at the behest of the left.

Practicality and reality come to bear, if a country for example already has an existing homeless issue and a lack of social housing for which there are huge numbers already on a waiting list (for non existent homes) ...... how does it make sense to let thousands of homeless people in?


If a country already has people in poverty, with subpar education and no job, with a growing unemployment level ........ how does it make sense to let thousands of unemployed in?


There are more examples of this reality and how the pie in the sky wishes of the left don't measure up to the reality on the ground.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Don't expect intelligent coherent responses, most people with the "lol you must be Trump" posts likely don't have a clue and are just regurgating what they think is cool to say. There is already a bordern between Mexico and the US and never do you hear about it being an issue. It's Trump being Trump and his offensive language that is the disgusting thing about his wall talk, that and the absurdity of it.

People comparing Trump to simply wanting to control your borders are bleeding hearts pulling a very blatant strawman argument. Syrians are not entitled to free, unvetted access to Europe. Nobody is entitled to unequivocal free movement between countries.

Yeah, the time where he did his "they're rapists" spiel was horrific. What's almost as bad is that he was implying that Mexico was sending their worst, which isn't the case. It's merely unvetted migrants (and yes, illegal drugs) flowing North for greener pastures. They're not entitled to do so, but there's what seems like very little will to enforce immigration control on the issue outside of the right and often far-right. That's something that is peculiarly American, not an international norm.

Also, no member of NATO wants a land border with Russia. The three that do aren't exactly happy about it... Norway has a tiny one they can close easily.

 

[Ahasverus]

Good. If Russia is the utopy Putin, a democratically elected leader, paints it to be, then who could ever want to leave?. Leave Norway alone.

 

[injurai]

Gaf you're too fun.

 

[yanipheonu]

Nothing right wing about border control, countries have a right to defend their borders.

Letting in uncontrolled amounts is only a bad thing, resources and additional infrastructure just don't emerge at the behest of the left.

Practicality and reality come to bear, if a country for example already has an existing homeless issue and a lack of social housing for which there are huge numbers already on a waiting list (for non existent homes) ...... how does it make sense to let thousands of homeless people in?


If a country already has people in poverty, with subpar education and no job, with a growing unemployment level ........ how does it make sense to let thousands of unemployed in?


There are more examples of this reality and how the pie in the sky wishes of the left don't measure up to the reality on the ground.

That said, a wall likely wouldn't solve the problem, and just waste money.

Not to mention the humanitarian angle.
These are People, regardless of their illegal status.
Especially if they're REFUGEES. They aren't there for a vacation.

 

[Extra Sauce]

The number of wall jokes just got higher.

 

[ISOM]

I can see why they don't want Russian migrants to come uncontrolled into their borders. Russia invaded Crimea on the pretext that it was protecting Russians if I remember correctly. And should a sizable amount of Russians cross the border and establish some sort of community in Norway..welp.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

It's not surprising. There's no reason to assume unvetted migrants (many of whom are unattached males as it's easiest for them) are a good thing to bring in.

I was talking about the bicycles

 

[Gorger]

Winter is coming.

 

[Sheentak]

I can see why they don't want Russian migrants to come uncontrolled into their borders. Russia invaded Crimea on the pretext that it was protecting Russians if I remember correctly. And should a sizable amount of Russians cross the border and establish some sort of community in Norway..welp.

Yeah starting to think this is the real purpose of the wall.

 

[Ducarmel]

Also, no thanks to thousands of Syrian migrants who won't mesh with the mostly homogeneous Norwegian society. Norway should be able to let in and refuse who they want, that's sovereignty.

I get protecting your border from hostile neighbors like Russia but the Syrians are refugees not migrants. Homogeneous society is not a good reason to not help with a humanitarian crisis.

 

[PatThePassive]

I can see why they don't want Russian migrants to come uncontrolled into their borders. Russia invaded Crimea on the pretext that it was protecting Russians if I remember correctly. And should a sizable amount of Russians cross the border and establish some sort of community in Norway..welp.

With the Crimea stuff I also love to point out Russia also reversed any progress towards a world without nuclear arms by "invading" the Ukraine no more than 2 years after they completely dismantled their nuclear arsenal.

I don't think another smaller state is gonna do that again for a while.

 

[Lyn]

... What the hell? Why?

It is essentially one of the cheapest ways for refugees/immigrants to get into Europe, although the journey is certainly a very roundabout way to get there.

As for the bicycles themselves, people cannot cross the border on foot and those providing rides to people without documentation are running into trouble. As a result, refugees/immigrants are making use of a policy that allows people to enter the country on a wheeled vehicle (honestly, I can't remember the specific terms but something like this). They buy bicycles in horrendous condition on the Russian side, wheel over the border, then dump them as the bicycles do not meet regulation in Norway.

The business has been booming so much that there is an actual bicycle shortage in the towns near the border. People are piling up there waiting for more bicycles to arrive, while many try to illegally jump the border anyway.

Obviously, there is a greater issue here that I don't want to detract from. I just remember seeing the pictures from this region of pile after pile of bicycles and it stuck with me. I haven't personally seen anything quite like that before.

 

[t26]

Can't the refugees or migrants enter through Finland, which is a Schengen Area?

 

[Gorger]

I get protecting your border from hostile neighbors but the Syrians are refugees not migrants. Homogeneous society is not a good reason to not help with a humanitarian crisis.

Are you saying Norwegians are not helping with the crisis... like at all? We've pledged 1,2 billions which is $240 per person based on population (5 million). To compare U.K have pledged $26 per person based on population, Germany $32 and US have $16.

I've never even heard of this fence from any major Norwegian news outlets, but it sounds pretty useless and unnecessary. There was one period where thousands of people fled to Norway from Russia, but now it's almost none.

It also doesn't help that we have a rightwing-ish government either.

 

[Crisco]

To be fair, Russia is actually invading it's neighbors and is considerably worse than Mexico.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Are you saying Norwegians are not helping with the crisis... like at all? We've pledged 1,2 billions which is $240 per person based on population (5 million). To compare U.K have pledged $26 per person based on population, Germany $32 and US have $16.

I've never even heard of this fence from any major Norwegian news outlets, but it sounds pretty useless and unnecessary. There was one period where thousands of people fled to Norway from Russia, but now it's almost none.

It also doesn't help that we have a rightwing-ish government either.

No NATO country wants a border with Russia, and additionally, thousands of Syrian migrants are entering Norway through it. It's a tiny border and easy to close. It doesn't solve that Finland is also in the Schengen Area but not building one/would have a harder time doing so, but it's a start. The Norway-Russia border is also not too far from a relatively populated area (Murmansk, the largest city in the Arctic Circle.) Makes sense to close it.

Kill two birds with one stone. It's no loss.

To give a clearer picture:

Here are 4 numbered frozen conflicts created by Russia on their Southern borders.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

To be fair, Russia is actually invading it's neighbors and is considerably worse than Mexico.

How is a fence going to stop Russia if they actually tried?

Nothing right wing about border control, countries have a right to defend their borders.
Letting in uncontrolled amounts is only a bad thing, resources and additional infrastructure just don't emerge at the behest of the left.
Practicality and reality come to bear, if a country for example already has an existing homeless issue and a lack of social housing for which there are huge numbers already on a waiting list (for non existent homes) ...... how does it make sense to let thousands of homeless people in?
If a country already has people in poverty, with subpar education and no job, with a growing unemployment level ........ how does it make sense to let thousands of unemployed in?
There are more examples of this reality and how the pie in the sky wishes of the left don't measure up to the reality on the ground.

Because it's a wealthy country and people are in need of asylum, which is a universal right.

also glossing over this section in the article

So far this year, no one has sought asylum via the northern frontier, according to the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Because it's a wealthy country and people are in need of asylum, which is a universal right.

Nope. Sovereignty is the right of a nation state. Free movement across borders is not a human right.

 

[Ducarmel]

Are you saying Norwegians are not helping with the crisis... like at all? We've pledged 1,2 billions which is $240 per person based on population (5 million). To compare U.K have pledged $26 per person based on population, Germany $32 and US have $16.

https://i.embed.ly/1/image?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gannett-cdn.com%2Fusatoday%2Feditorial%2Fgraphics%2F2016%2F02%2F021016-Norway-Syria-refugees-v2.jpg&key=d4d8237d9ea940f0aeeb79746705567a[img]

I've never even heard of this fence from any major Norwegian news outlets, but it sounds pretty useless and unnecessary. There was one period where thousands of people fled to Norway from Russia, but now it's almost none.

It also doesn't help that we have a rightwing-ish government either.[/QUOTE]

I never wrote Norway is not helping.

The person i quoted regulated the Syrian refugees to migrants which they are not and from that post it appears this poster does not want them in Norway because they are a homogeneous society.

I can respect any countries sovereign right to create standards and controls for legal immigration and doing what they can to stop illegal crossings, but in a humanitarian crisis I don't believe strict immigration control should apply to refugees needing assistance.