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[Ravensmash]

Again, I want to caution everyone that the legality of what Junior did (the alleged solicitation) really comes down to the legal interpretation of whether information obtained from a foreign actor constitutes a "thing of value".

This really isn't as "open and shut" as it seems (unfortunately!)

As someone who's just jumping in here...

Isn't the implication that he was told that it was coming from an official source (from a foreign government), and that wasn't flagged or reported to relevant authorities, a legal issue in itself?

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Again, I want to caution everyone that the legality of what Junior did (the alleged solicitation) really comes down to the legal interpretation of whether information obtained from a foreign actor constitutes a "thing of value" as per the FEC.

This really isn't as "open and shut" as it seems (unfortunately!)

Of course it's not. That's why I'm not excited about DTJr's fuck up. Sure, it's funny to point and laugh at the idiot, but I'm not sure what good will come out of it.

 

[Fenderputty]

I posted it because it was a diverging opinion on the legal ramifications of the event. Right now, it seems everyone who hates Trump seem to think that this will bring him down. This guy had a different legal view on it so I thought it might be interesting to discuss it.

To be clear, I hate Trump and don't think this will bring him down. His son on the other hand ...

 

[Jeremy]

I think it is better to be slow and right then fast and wrong. Sometimes people will just post "the shooter has hostages" and then a few posts later saying that they heard people say that on Twitter. Well, who on twitter? Random people or actual local news journalists?

But, this isn't really on topic. I'd love to have a thread on appropriate news reporting, but so many just want to be the first to post and get quoted over and over.

It sounds like Off-Topic posts focusing on news should just be open to accredited journalists posting updates and everything else should belong in a more casual section, so we can get the facts and cut out all of this back-and-forth chat and unfiltered posts that flow endlessly without consequence.

Like most open discussion boards

but yeah this isn't on topic, the unconfirmed Twitter accounts saying there's a potential delay on the release of info is interesting if true

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I posted it because it was a diverging opinion on the legal ramifications of the event. Right now, it seems everyone who hates Trump seem to think that this will bring him down. This guy had a different legal view on it so I thought it might be interesting to discuss it.

As a general rule my advice would be to ignore hot takes from either side. If you're someone with a RESIST avatar, every new trickle of information is probably THE BIG ONE!!! If you're a Trump defender, every new story is a nothing burger.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen. I feel like there's definitely something shady that has and continues to go on, but that most of this is largely a political process. Mueller's investigation is very likely going to take some time whether he comes up with anything conclusively damning or not. As for proceedings like impeachment, the thing to look for there is stuff like approval ratings, not whether or not the latest WaPo, NYT, or CNN scoop is really the ItsHappening.gif breaking news.

 

[LiK]

It's almost like they want to be arrested.

 

[avaya]

When all this madness is said and done, and somebody competent and not a freaking traitor is in power. There need to be laws against this shit. Everybody (on both sides) or yelling about fake news, there need to be something in place that makes it easier to crack down on fake shit.

The constitution is a fatally flawed document so you will never have any laws that would protect against this shit. One side would clearly stick to the fake news narrative so they have no incentive to elevate the level of discourse because they need their poorly educated base to stay dumb.

 

[Linkura]

If you're someone with a RESIST avatar, every new trickle of information is probably THE BIG ONE!!!

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

As a general rule my advice would be to ignore hot takes from either side. If you're someone with a RESIST avatar, every new trickle of information is probably THE BIG ONE!!! If you're a Trump defender, every new story is a nothing burger.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen. I feel like there's definitely something shady that has and continues to go on, but that most of this is largely a political process. Mueller's investigation is very likely going to take some time whether he comes up with anything conclusively damning or not. As for proceedings like impeachment, the thing to look for there is approval ratings, not whether or not the latest WaPo, NYT, or CNN scoop is really the ItsHappening.gif breaking news.

I'm as cynical as they come but they're all guilty as sin.

 

[theWB27]

Again, I want to caution everyone that the legality of what Junior did (the alleged solicitation) really comes down to the legal interpretation of whether information obtained from a foreign actor constitutes a "thing of value" as per the FEC.

This really isn't as "open and shut" as it seems (unfortunately!)

It doesn't seem like it shuts anything...it seems like it opens even more.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

And the "drama" drove me away from being a CNN viewer. I hope all of those new "fair and balanced" viewers stick around after your propped up sideshow gets impeached.

those panels pretty much made me stop watching CNN

I think the straw that broke the camels back for me was when that guy(I forget his name) said something among the lines on how presidential it was when idiot in chief read off a teleprompter

 

[RDreamer]

This guy has interesting takes on this whole thing:

 

[Mattenth]

"No one from my campaign met with a Russian."

"Ok, some people met with the ambassador, but it was no big deal."

"No meeting ever took place with a Russian lawyer."

"Well, a meeting took place, but it was about adoption."

"Well, the meeting was an attempt to get dirt on Clinton."

"Look how transparent we are."

 

[Durden77]

GAF is not a news site. Although in these frustrating times in finding the truth, it's understandable that many (myself included) use it for their news.

But it's still not a site for news, it's a site for discussion. Posting fake tweets, news, ect should not be a bannable offense because it does cause a discussion, (albiet sometimes a frustrating one) unless the motive of the post obviously had malicious intent.

Imo, of course.

 

[rambis]

Again, I want to caution everyone that the legality of what Junior did (the alleged solicitation) really comes down to the legal interpretation of whether information obtained from a foreign actor constitutes a "thing of value" as per the FEC.

This really isn't as "open and shut" as it seems (unfortunately!)

Thats just the criminal aspect which isnt that important. If Trump Sr is found to be complicit at all in any of this then that is grounds for impeachment.

 

[plagiarize]

I still am not convinced this will go all the way to Trump, but it's getting very goddamn close.

As I've been saying for months, it's not a question of if something illegal was done here, but how many people were involved, and if it goes all the way to Trump.

But then, the kompromat ensnaring your son... That's got to put pressure on you.

 

[titiklabingapat]

As a general rule my advice would be to ignore hot takes from either side. If you're someone with a RESIST avatar, every new trickle of information is probably THE BIG ONE!!! If you're a Trump defender, every new story is a nothing burger.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen. I feel like there's definitely something shady that has and continues to go on, but that most of this is largely a political process. Mueller's investigation is very likely going to take some time whether he comes up with anything conclusively damning or not. As for proceedings like impeachment, the thing to look for there is stuff like approval ratings, not whether or not the latest WaPo, NYT, or CNN scoop is really the ItsHappening.gif breaking news.

And what drags down a president's approval ratings? Exactly this type of news. You are right though that this one instance isn't gonna do much. The sum of all of this though? Absolutely.

Don't let up, basically. People *will* get tired eventually. And they will tire of Trump as well. They always do.

 

[Hellraizah]

As a general rule my advice would be to ignore hot takes from either side. If you're someone with a RESIST avatar, every new trickle of information is probably THE BIG ONE!!! If you're a Trump defender, every new story is a nothing burger.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen. I feel like there's definitely something shady that has and continues to go on, but that most of this is largely a political process. Mueller's investigation is very likely going to take some time whether he comes up with anything conclusively damning or not. As for proceedings like impeachment, the thing to look for there is stuff like approval ratings, not whether or not the latest WaPo, NYT, or CNN scoop is really the ItsHappening.gif breaking news.

It's bad for Trump Jr. for sure. It's media frenzy of the highest order. I just think a lot of people are jumping the gun too quick when they are saying that Assange admitted of collusion with the Trump campaign. Maybe he just sent a message to Jr. for the first time ever today because of the story. This story can spin in a lot of ways right now.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

To be clear, I'm honestly not calling vocal Trump opponents out there. I'm just saying that I do concede that there is an over-zealousness among some to think that Trump is just about done for. Any day now!!!

I would just be happy to see Dems gradually gain back control in 2018 in 2020 and for the Trump agenda to go nowhere. We don't need to delude ourselves into thinking that every breaking story is just about to result in Trump being escorted out of the oval office in shackles.

 

[The Silver]

I'm as cynical as they come but they're all guilty as sin.

doesn't matter if they're guilty, what matters is if Mueller can get enough concrete evidence to do anything about it.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

And what drags down a president's approval ratings? Exactly this type of news. You are right thought that this one instance isn't gonna do much. The sum of all of this though? Absolutely.

Don't let up, basically. People *will* get tired eventually. And they will tire of Trump as well. They always do.

Sure! But it's a slow, gradual process.

 

[rjinaz]

Heheh yeah I definitely don't think every story is the big one, actually I'm quite pessimistic even about this.

Actually I only continue to sport my RESIST banner because I saw how it seemed to annoy certain posters heh.

 

[BronsonLee]

They've had grounds for impeachment since day 1 when he wouldn't divest from the business interests and keeps profiting off of it.

It's basically them stalling until public support is completely in the toilet, then they'll decide what to do. Or if they can't get their shit together on their agendas in time and the midterms force their hand

 

[Linkura]

To be clear, I'm honestly not calling vocal Trump opponents out there. I'm just saying that I do concede that there is an over-zealousness among some to think that Trump is just about done for. Any day now!!!

I would just be happy to see Dems gradually gain back control in 2018 in 2020 and for the Trump agenda to go nowhere. We don't need to delude ourselves into thinking that every breaking story is just about to result in Trump being escorted out of the oval office in shackles.

Haha I know, I'm just having fun.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

This guy has interesting takes on this whole thing:

I had the same thoughts as #2 and #5 earlier in the thread. Don Jr. does not even question Russia's support of Trump when it is raised in the email, as if he already knows it exists. And I suspect the meeting was to divulge the content of the DNC email hack to Trump's team and get their input as to how and when to drop the leak.

 

[plagiarize]

It's bad for Trump Jr. for sure. It's media frenzy of the highest order. I just think a lot of people are jumping the gun too quick when they are saying that Assange admitted of collusion with the Trump campaign. Maybe he just sent a message to Jr. for the first time ever today because of the story. This story can spin in a lot of ways right now.

He helped them in the past. Intentionally or not.

Today, he admitted advising Donald Jr on what to do that would help him avoid legal problems.

It paints a clear picture.

Maybe he intentionally helped them before. But today, he reached out to Donald Jr and tried to help him, whether his previous helpful actions were intentionally trying to help Trump or not.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

doesn't matter if they're guilty, what matters is if Mueller can get enough concrete evidence to do anything about it.

Who do you think wins in a spying game

Donald Trump and his dumbfuck idiot friends and children

The US Intelligence Community and it's allies abroad.

 

[Dude Abides]

I posted it because it was a diverging opinion on the legal ramifications of the event. Right now, it seems everyone who hates Trump seem to think that this will bring him down. This guy had a different legal view on it so I thought it might be interesting to discuss it.

William Jacobson's area of specialty is securities law and arbitration. He has no expertise here. It's true that it's way too early to claim that this will "take Trump down" as supposedly "everyone" is doing, but Jacobson has nothing particularly valuable to offer on this subject. He's also a hardcore right-wing partisan.

If you want legal analyses that are a bit more reasoned and less agenda-driven, i'd check out lawfareblog.com (though Wittes is anti-Trump and a Comey friend).

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Kaine: Trump Jr. may have committed treason.

Hillary Clinton's former running mate, Sen. Tim Kaine, said Donald Trump Jr. may have committed treason when he agreed to meet with a Russian lawyer under the pretense of getting dirt on Clinton.

"We are now beyond obstruction of justice," the Virginia Democrat told CNN Tuesday. "This is moving into perjury, false statements and even potentially treason."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/11/polit...NN071117tim-kaine-donald-trump-jr1229PMVODtop

Jeffrey Toobin just called the notion of treason "ridiculous" live on CNN. Don't waste your time listening to Sen. Kaine.

 

[Kadin]

It's bad for Trump Jr. for sure. It's media frenzy of the highest order. I just think a lot of people are jumping the gun too quick when they are saying that Assange admitted of collusion with the Trump campaign. Maybe he just sent a message to Jr. for the first time ever today because of the story. This story can spin in a lot of ways right now.

It can definitely spin in a lot of ways. But eventually, when things continue to go in one direction and more and more stuff like this comes out bringing doubt to many minds, you have to ask yourself when is enough, enough? At what point do people have to admit that things are way off versus the constant pursuit of trying to see how it's simply being misrepresented?

 

[Toxi]

GAF is not a news site. Although in these frustrating times in finding the truth, it's understandable that many (myself included) use it for their news.

But it's still not a site for news, it's a site for discussion. Posting fake tweets, news, ect should not be a bannable offense because it does cause a discussion, (albiet sometimes a frustrating one) unless the motive of the post obviously had malicious intent.

Imo, of course.

Fake tweets and news create useless discussion though. If the discussion is based on the assertion that something false is true, it is no longer applicable to reality.

 

[Zolo]

I would just be happy to see Dems gradually gain back control in 2018 in 2020 and for the Trump agenda to go nowhere. We don't need to delude ourselves into thinking that every breaking story is just about to result in Trump being escorted out of the oval office in shackles.

Yeah. This is pretty much where I'm at. I don't see Trump getting impeached with enough Republicans in the Senate (even if the house was regained). I also don't see enough Republican constituents who care enough about Trump colluding with Russia to disapprove of him. Seeing Dem waves due to Trump and stories like this constantly putting the White House and Congress on the defense making it harder for them to pass horrible legislation is enough. My main concern is matters of national security while Trump is in office.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

It's gonna be beautiful watching republicans have to defend this

 

[jay]

Considering how easily you presented a right-wing blog talking point as your own, I wouldn't be surprised if it was that easy to change your mind.

We may have found Chick tracts target audience.

I have the right to my opinion. I was banned for this post.

But this private business has decided that may not be the case. Surely the market will justly dictate who has the right to an opinion.

 

[Poltergust]

Kind of disappointing. I thought they'd have been on this weeks ago.

Not even the FBI knew about these e-mails until now. I'm not surprised, really.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I have the right to my opinion. I was banned for this post.

Probably for the insulting use of "retard."

 

[Tovarisc]

NEW: @RepCummings sends letter to Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort requesting documents on meeting with Russian lawyer

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/884891549720596482

 

[mjp2417]

Jeffrey Toobin just called the notion of treason "ridiculous" live on CNN. Don't waste your time listening to Sen. Kaine.

It was always pretty clear that the Kaine thing was just some red meat for the base

 

[Kadin]

It's gonna be beautiful watching republicans have to defend this

I'm sure many will speak to how they don't like it or even condemn it, but I don't suspect they'll actually do anything about it. If the past predicts the future, they'll put on a show to say they don't like it but will raise no issues about it or push back.

I can only imagine what a hearing would be like based on the last few we've had.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

NEW: @RepCummings sends letter to Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort requesting documents on meeting with Russian lawyer

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/884891549720596482

OMG, I love the citation to Junior's tweet!

 

[rambis]

NEW: @RepCummings sends letter to Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort requesting documents on meeting with Russian lawyer

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/884891549720596482

Lol, I know this slowly burned Gowdy's soul as he signed this.

 

[Zips]

That's it! You just convinced me, right there!

Bernie 2020!

I don't care about convincing you of anything. I don't support or care about Bernie either. But you are a fool if you think Trudeau is worse than Trump.

I won't try to convince you, but I strongly feel you should reconsider that opinion. You'll have to do that on your own though.

 

[tbm24]

It was always pretty clear that the Kaine thing was just some red meat for the base

Treason is always a long shot. You don't need to aim that high to bring these people down.

 

[Toxi]

It's gonna be beautiful watching republicans have to defend this

Nah, it's gonna be predictable. We're already seeing the boiler plate reactions from people like Hellraizah.

I don't care about convincing you of anything. I don't support or care about Bernie either. But you are a fool if you think Trudeau is worse than Trump.

I won't try to convince you, but I strongly feel you should reconsider that opinion. You'll have to do that on your own though.

What blows my mind is not that they implied Trump is better than Trudeau.

It's that they implied Trump is smarter than Trudeau.

 

[Saint Gregory]

When all this madness is said and done, and somebody competent and not a freaking traitor is in power. There need to be laws against this shit. Everybody (on both sides) or yelling about fake news, there need to be something in place that makes it easier to crack down on fake shit.

We already had one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

Guess who got rid of it :/

 

[jay]

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen. I feel like there's definitely something shady that has and continues to go on, but that most of this is largely a political process. Mueller's investigation is very likely going to take some time whether he comes up with anything conclusively damning or not. As for proceedings like impeachment, the thing to look for there is stuff like approval ratings, not whether or not the latest WaPo, NYT, or CNN scoop is really the ItsHappening.gif breaking news.

A third of the people in this thread will call you a Trump supporter or a defeatist at best for this attitude. Then follow it up with some pithy 'kids today' stuff.

 

[AYF 001]

It's gonna be beautiful watching republicans have to defend this

"Putin is better for America than Obama and Hilary."

 

[Zolo]

I'm sure many will speak to how they don't like it or even condemn it, but I don't suspect they'll actually do anything about it. If the past predicts the future, they'll put on a show to say they don't like it but will raise no issues about it or push back.

I can only imagine what a hearing would be like based on the last few we've had.

Yeah. Politicians will just make a statement saying it's unacceptable while the constituents don't see that and get all their news from radio and Fox News which will do all the spinning.

 

[Kadin]

NEW: @RepCummings sends letter to Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort requesting documents on meeting with Russian lawyer

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/884891549720596482

Read every word and I loved seeing the tweet used as a source. Glad they put this together so fast.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

A third of the people in this thread will call you a Trump supporter or a defeatist at best for this attitude. Then follow it up with some pithy 'kids today' stuff.

I feel like I'm in a weird position sometimes just in that I recognize that these kinds of stories absolutely are a big deal and help to build the case against Trump, but also recognize that this is a slow, arduous process that won't yield the desired results quickly, and may never pay off completely.