Owners Of SoCal Nudist Resort Forced To Defend ‘No Kids’ Policy In Court

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http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012...ort-forced-to-defend-no-kids-policy-in-court/

. PALM SPRINGS (CBS) —Hundreds of “certain individuals” are threatening legal action against the owners of a Palm Springs nudist resort over its policy of not allowing children on the premises.

Desert Sun Resort owners and Orange County residents John and Elizabeth Young filed a lawsuit March 16 in Orange County Superior Court against 500 unnamed defendants asking a judge to rule that the resort’s policy against children does not violate state law.

KNX 1070′s Margaret Carrero reports the couple were dumbfounded when they received a letter last month seeking penalties and damages over their policy against allowing kids on their property.

The lawsuit was filed in response to a letter the Youngs received Feb. 17 from Palm Springs attorney David Baron — written on behalf of “certain individuals” — which threatened legal action against the clothing-optional resort “for maintaining and enforcing a No Children Allowed Policy and a Couples-Only Day Pass Policy”.

“The first three years of business we allowed children, and we really felt that there was some kind of liability for a child being on property and maybe being photographed or worse,” Elizabeth Young said.

Baron disagrees and insists the policy is a “clear case of discrimination” fueled more by money than by protecting kids from pedophiles.

Young said her attorneys asked Baron to identify the “certain individuals” who were threatening legal action, but the request went unanswered. With the letter alleging that the resort was opening itself to “ongoing and mounting statutory damages,” the Youngs opted to go to court to have a judge review the no-children policy.

The Desert Sun Resort website describes its accommodations as “adult only”. California’s Unruh Rights Act prohibits discrimination by businesses based on age, ancestry, color, disability, national origin, race,religion, sex and sexual orientation.

Elizabeth Young said the resort, which she and her husband bought in 2008, did not previously have any prohibitions against children. But the Youngs changed the policy last year, saying they wanted to protect children.

“We changed the rule last year after seeing all the news stories of child porn,” she said.

She said the resort, which has 32 hotel rooms and 59 condominiums on six acres, gets more than 10,000 visitors a year from around the world, and 40 percent of them are first-time visitors. She said she cannot guarantee that every guest has good intentions toward children.

The resort prohibits public sexual behavior and the use of cameras, cell phones and laptops throughout most of the premises, but “violations do occur,” Young said order

“(We) do not want to be responsible, legally or morally, for pictures taken at the resort that could be posted on websites that exploit pictures of nudist children in order to serve pedophiles,” according to a statement issued by the Youngs.

The Youngs cited recent examples, such as a guest at a nudist camp in Texas who was sentenced to 50 years in prison for filming children, an officer of a nudist club in Canada who was sentenced to five years in prison for child pornography and a couple from England who were sentenced to 12 years in prison for setting up an online nudist forum as cover for a pedophile ring.

Guests at Desert Sun Resort are required to be nude in the resort’s three pools, two spas and pool decks. They can be optionally nude anywhere else at the resort, including the tennis court, gym, firepit areas, cafe and nightclub.

According to the Youngs’ statement, if the resort is forced to abandon its no-kids policy, “it would be an open question whether other clothing-optional resorts, swinger resorts and gay resorts with less strict policies on sexual conduct could also be forced to allow children.”

Elizabeth Young told reporters she and her husband believe they are “on the right side of the law.”

“I will close the resort before I put one child in harm,” she said.
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Hmmm. I have mixed feelings about this. Tough one.

Ultimately I think that always coming down on whichever side protects kids from potential harm is the right thing to do.
 
Isn't everyone allowed to know who is applying legal pressure to them? You can't claim damages anonymously.

And why would you want to bring children to a nude resort? Here's hoping common sense overrides the letter of the law.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Isn't everyone allowed to know who is applying legal pressure to them? You can't claim damages anonymously.

And why would you want to bring children to a nude resort? Here's hoping common sense overrides the letter of the law.
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I thought being a nudist is supposed to be a non-sexual thing? Why should it matter what age you are?

If you're going to a nudist beach/colony to stare at naked bodies I think you're doing it wrong.
 
I'm scratching my head as to how any judge would even allow the case to be heard in court. They are asking the owners of the resort to allow the tenants to knowingly break the law and open themselves up to liability.

Imagine the shitstorm that would happen if some old creeper took pictures of nude children and posted them online. The resort would be complicit and liable for contributing to child porn.

This is craziness.
 
clearacell said:
I thought being a nudist is supposed to be a non-sexual thing? Why should it matter what age you are?

If you're going to a nudist beach/colony to stare at naked bodies I think you're doing it wrong.
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Indeed, but regardless of your own intentions, do you want your children subject to those who are "doing it wrong?" And how.
 
Hawkian said:
Indeed, but regardless of your own intentions, do you want your children subject to those who are "doing it wrong?" And how.
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Yeah, this is ultimately the issue. I have a deep respect for the whole philosophy but the risk to children in a setting like this are pretty damn high.

Nudists aren't perverts, but there are perverts who exploit them.
 
Dresden said:
Well, ideally it should be totally non sexual but . . . are you okay with strangers seeing your children, naked?
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I doubt a nudist cares or thinks like that.

I do believe a child should have the choice and be old enough to understand before being nude in public.
 
Can't the kids be there except in a clothing is mandatory capacity?

I guess nudist hippy parents feel kinda hard done by, by not been able to go there because they have kids.
 
echoshifting said:
Yeah, this is ultimately the issue. I have a deep respect for the whole philosophy but the risk to children in a setting like this are pretty damn high.

Nudists aren't perverts, but there are perverts who exploit them.
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Well I would expect these types of places to have a "no camera/no boner" policy.

And this is clothing optional as well, the kids can still go and be with their parents and be wearing clothes, and if the kid chooses maybe they can be nude as well. There are perverts everywhere no matter what you do, why make that prohibit you from doing what you want?
 
The act being cited: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_Civil_Rights_Act

By a broad interpretation, even so much as kicking minors out of an adult bookstore is illegal in California. I imagine that the UCRA does not trump other laws, like serving alcohol and anti-child porn laws. So if allowing kids would make them legally liable for any photos taken on their premises, then I think the resort is indeed on the right side of the law.

/armchair_analysis
 
It doesn't matter whether kids are clothed or naked, pedophiles will still be pedophiles, I see no reason to exclude kids if that's what the parents are comfortable with.

With THAT said I think it should obviously be the resort's discretion.
 
Shick Brithouse said:
I'm scratching my head as to how any judge would even allow the case to be heard in court. They are asking the owners of the resort to allow the tenants to knowingly break the law and open themselves up to liability.

Imagine the shitstorm that would happen if some old creeper took pictures of nude children and posted them online. The resort would be complicit and liable for contributing to child porn.

This is craziness.
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Kids running around naked on a beach is not child porn. If the parents are comfortable with it and the kids are too, who cares? However, if the resort would be liable for anything they should have the right to refuse.
 
Brian Griffin said:
Kids running around naked on a beach is not child porn. If the parents are comfortable with it and the kids are too, who cares? However, if the resort would be liable for anything they should have the right to refuse.
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Dude I get what you're saying but you're completely naive to what pedos use as child porn. 2 little girls naked splashing each other in the kiddy pool would generate a lot of hits among that community.

Videos showing penetration isn't the only form of child porn that is popular. Voyeristic child porn is typically more popular and widespread due to it being easier to find.
 
clearacell said:
Well I would expect these types of places to have a "no camera/no boner" policy.

And this is clothing optional as well, the kids can still go and be with their parents and be wearing clothes, and if the kid chooses maybe they can be nude as well. There are perverts everywhere no matter what you do, why make that prohibit you from doing what you want?
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Pretty much this.

When I was a kid, running around naked was pretty normal as well.
 
Not sure why it shouldn't be left to the discretion of the resort owners.

Shick Brithouse said:
I'm scratching my head as to how any judge would even allow the case to be heard in court. They are asking the owners of the resort to allow the tenants to knowingly break the law and open themselves up to liability.

Imagine the shitstorm that would happen if some old creeper took pictures of nude children and posted them online. The resort would be complicit and liable for contributing to child porn.

This is craziness.
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Nudity isn't breaking the law if it occurs on private property, regardless if the naked people are adults or minors. And I don't know how the owners of the property would be liable for anything so long as they take reasonable measures to prevent such a thing from occurring. I.E., they don't openly allow cell phones/cameras/etc.
 
This entire article is completely incoherent.

Desert Sun Resort owners and Orange County residents John and Elizabeth Young filed a lawsuit March 16 in Orange County Superior Court against 500 unnamed defendants asking a judge to rule that the resort’s policy against children does not violate state law.
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WTF does that even mean? Who is suing whom, and for what? That is seriously the most poorly-written article I have maybe ever scene posted on GAF.


Margaret Carrero reports the couple were dumbfounded when they received a letter last month seeking penalties and damages over their policy against allowing kids on their property.
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WTF does this even mean? You get a random ass letter in the mail saying, "Im' a random dude. You're breaking the law. Send me money." What?
 
Shick Brithouse said:
Dude I get what you're saying but you're completely naive to what pedos use as child porn. 2 little girls naked splashing each other in the kiddy pool would generate a lot of hits among that community.

Videos showing penetration isn't the only form of child porn that is popular. Voyeristic child porn is typically more popular and widespread due to it being easier to find.
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As Gaborn said, pedos gonna pedo, whether kids are clothed or not. This really depends on who the “certain individuals” are. If they are all parents who embrace the nudist lifestyle and just want to take their kids to the beach that's totally different than if they are a bunch of dudes wanting to ogle some kids. I just don't think "there might be pedos around" should be the sole reason for a "no kids" rule to be in place if it is the only reason.
 
Lost Fragment said:
Not sure why it shouldn't be left to the discretion of the resort owners.



Nudity isn't breaking the law if it occurs on private property, regardless if the naked people are adults or minors. And I don't know how the owners of the property would be liable for anything so long as they take reasonable measures to prevent such a thing from occurring. I.E., they don't openly allow cell phones/cameras/etc.
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By this logic I could go in my back yard completely naked or let my child do the same and not get arrested. We both know that's not accurate.

Resorts have special exemptions, but I doubt children's nudity is one of them.
 
Shick Brithouse said:
By this logic I could go in my back yard completely naked or let my child do the same and not get arrested. We both know that's not accurate.

Resorts have special exemptions, but I doubt children's nudity is one of them.
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You wouldn't so long as it's not visible from outside your property.
 
Shick Brithouse said:
By this logic I could go in my back yard completely naked or let my child do the same and not get arrested. We both know that's not accurate.

Resorts have special exemptions, but I doubt children's nudity is one of them.
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I don't think you would be arrested. If you are swinging your dick at neighbors you might but if you are just hanging out nude that's not a crime.

Here in Seattle I think you can legally be totally nude anywhere in public. I know there are few parade events with lots of naked people walking in them.
 
Honestly I wish more non nudist places banned kids. Would definitely encourage me to go there.

Why is the choice either drink or be surrounded by little parasites that I'd rather hit with a truck than spend any time around?
 
regardless of whatever laws there are with little kids running around naked, if the resort doesn't want it in their resort, they don't have to. end of story. fucking pervy pedos trying to fight that grosses me out.
 
I went to a nude beach and swinger resort as a kid (Hedonism)


LuchaShaq said:
Honestly I wish more non nudist places banned kids. Would definitely encourage me to go there.

Why is the choice either drink or be surrounded by little parasites that I'd rather hit with a truck than spend any time around?
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Amen, brother
 
Brian Griffin said:
I don't think you would be arrested. If you are swinging your dick at neighbors you might but if you are just hanging out nude that's not a crime.

Here in Seattle I think you can legally be totally nude anywhere in public. I know there are few parade events with lots of naked people walking in them.
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Considering I do this for a living, I can 100% say you are wrong. Unless you have a 20 foot fence so that your neighbours couldn't see you you can be arrested for public nudity or public indecency. Depending on who actually saw you, you could be tagged as a sex offender. I'm not saying I agree with the law, only what it is and the potential consequences.
 
Brian Griffin said:
I don't think you would be arrested. If you are swinging your dick at neighbors you might but if you are just hanging out nude that's not a crime.

Here in Seattle I think you can legally be totally nude anywhere in public. I know there are few parade events with lots of naked people walking in them.
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Oregon too. There is a large variance in public nudity laws from state to state.

Shick Brithouse said:
Considering I do this for a living, I can 100% say you are wrong. Unless you have a 20 foot fence so that your neighbours couldn't see you you can be arrested for public nudity or public indecency. Depending on who actually saw you, you could be tagged as a sex offender. I'm not saying I agree with the law, only what it is and the potential consequences.
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Well, I can't speak for Washington, but public nudity is 100% legal in Oregon as long as there is no "intent to arouse."
 
clearacell said:
Growing up most kids would run around naked all the time. I dunno, maybe it's just me but I don't find nudity a shameful thing.
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its the pedophiles. this would be there Disneyland to them.

i mean imagine if you went there with your family and some guy was staring at your youngest and getting a stiffy while snapping pics on his iphone.
 
sangreal said:
I went to a nude beach and swinger resort as a kid (Hedonism)
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Are there people just openly fucking around the resort, or is that just some marketing ploy to make it seem way more awesome than it actually is? I saw an article about it in a Playboy a long time ago and it sounded pretty sweet.
 
clearacell said:
Well I would expect these types of places to have a "no camera/no boner" policy.

And this is clothing optional as well, the kids can still go and be with their parents and be wearing clothes, and if the kid chooses maybe they can be nude as well. There are perverts everywhere no matter what you do, why make that prohibit you from doing what you want?
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To clarify, I'm not saying it's a bad idea for children to embrace nudism, and I'm not saying it's a bad idea for parents to bring their kids to accomodating locales. My point was made from the point of view of the resort enforcing this rule; if there's even one person who's their with nefarious intent that's one too many for most parents.

Btw
"no camera" policy
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Hey, that's a very rational idea
"no boner" policy
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But... how do you enforce this one exactly? :(
 
clearacell said:
I thought being a nudist is supposed to be a non-sexual thing? Why should it matter what age you are?

If you're going to a nudist beach/colony to stare at naked bodies I think you're doing it wrong.
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true but you don't know the minds of people, and if the children aren't supervised 100% of the time, who knows what could happen. Nudism is a luxury activity, I say children don't have to be involved in nude relaxation. I wouldn't doubt that these 500 people are either "virtual" or part of an internet petition, or drummed up by some legal effort. Kids don't really need to be involved with naked adults, and I don't see there being enough Euro-minded moms and dads to put this thing into action. I think someone just wants to put them out of business.


No cameras, you can try but people have hidden cameras. It's better to just keep things strictly adult, then you don't have to worry about the safety issues as much in regards to protecting children. Why does a child need to be on a nudist resort?
 
It is weird that the person suing is focusing on the no children rule, when I would think the couples only rule is more troubling. Of course, I understand why that rule is there too.

But ultimately, they should be able to do whatever they want. Well, in regards to who they let stay at their resort.
 
echoshifting said:
Oregon too. There is a large variance in public nudity laws from state to state.



Well, I can't speak for Washington, but public nudity is 100% legal in Oregon as long as there is no "intent to arouse."
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Fuck, didn't even think about this. Most states are topless only without a special permit. My bad.
 
Hawkian said:
But... how do you enforce this one exactly? :(
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Boner banishment, they put your pic on the wall and you'll be ostracized by the nudist community as a perv.

akira28 said:
No cameras, you can try but people have hidden cameras. It's better to just keep things strictly adult, then you don't have to worry about the safety issues as much in regards to protecting children. Why does a child need to be on a nudist resort?
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It's hard to hide a camera when you're naked ><
 
If they don't want naked kids on their beach and they don't want to be liable for what may come of it if they allowed it then that should be their right. That some folks are actually trying to force it by threats of lawsuits makes me question their motives.
 
Sanky Panky said:
Fuck the parents who are suing, if they are even parents themselves and not just anonymous pedophiles.
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I really doubt that anyone could scrounge up 500 parents in one community to sign such a petition. The owners have cited precedent of people using nudist venues to exploit children, unless someone promises them that they will be completely immune to prosecution they should have the right to exclude potentially actionable clientele. The couples only rule follows the same line of thought - they don't want random dudes just waltzing around to ogle the females. Swingers clubs often work the same way.
 
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