Patrick Stewart Supports Bakery That Refused "Support Gay Rights" Cake

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

ShadowKingpin

Member
The Star Trek and X-Men star said in a recent interview that he supports the right of Christian bakers to refuse to create cakes with messages supporting gay rights scrawled across them.

"It was not because it was a gay couple that they objected; it was not because they were celebrating some sort of marriage or an agreement between them," Stewart, a vocal supporter of gay rights, said in a recent interview on BBC's Newsnight. "It was the actual words on the cake they objected to. Because they found the words offensive."

"I would support their rights to say 'No, this is personally offensive to my beliefs, I will not do it,'” he added.
Click to expand...


http://www.dailydot.com/politics/sir-patrick-stewart-gay-rights-cake/?fb=dd


Welp. This is definitely something.
 
if they could show in good faith that it was the specific words they objected to then fine. Of course it was never the words and was clearly about the customers which is discrimination and illegal.

edit:

I misread. I thought it was about the customers not the message. My bad.
 
I think this one borderlines on forcing your beliefs on someone else, which is exactly what we're asking them not to do to us (banning gay marriage).

I'm torn. I'd probably have gone somewhere else rather than raise a stink.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I would just go somewhere else. I wouldn't try to force someone to make a gay agenda cake just as much as I wouldn't try to force someone to make a cake blaspheming Jesus.
 
He further clarified what he meant with this post on Facebook.
As part of my advocacy for Amnesty International, I gave an interview on a number of subjects related to human rights, civil rights and freedom of speech. During the interview, I was asked about the Irish bakers who refused to put a message on a cake which supported marriage equality, because of their beliefs. In my view, this particular matter was not about discrimination, but rather personal freedoms and what constitutes them, including the freedom to object. Both equality and freedom of speech are fundamental rights— and this case underscores how we need to ensure one isn’t compromised in the pursuit of the other. I know many disagree with my sentiments, including the courts. I respect and understand their position, especially in this important climate where the tides of prejudices and inequality are (thankfully) turning. What I cannot respect is that some have conflated my position on this single matter to assume I’m anti-equality or that I share the personal beliefs of the bakers. Nothing, absolutely nothing, could be further from the truth. I have long championed the rights of the LGBT community, because equality should not only be, as the people of Ireland powerfully showed the world, universally embraced, but treasured.
Click to expand...
 
genjiZERO said:
if they could show in good faith that it was the specific words they objected to then fine. Of course it was never the words and was clearly about the customers which is discrimination and illegal.
Click to expand...

don't most stores have a 'we reserve the right to refuse service' or something? Or is that just bullshit and not legally enforcable?
 
Serick said:
I'm torn. I'd probably have gone somewhere else rather than raise a stink.

Edit: No, I would just go somewhere else. I wouldn't try to force someone to make a gay agenda cake just as much as I wouldn't try to force someone to make a cake blaspheming Jesus.
Click to expand...

I would have gone somewhere else myself.
 
Fair. They have the right to decline a customer's request at their discretion, the couple has the right to never go back there and tell people about it. Doesn't matter if I find their reasoning for declining the request ludicrous, it's their business and unless money has changed hands, they aren't obligated to do anything for anyone.
 
Saying it's your belief doesn't make it right. It's not a blank check to do whatever you want.

The bakery is a private business and yeah, they can refuse whatever they want for whatever reason. It's still wrong.
 
What I cannot respect is that some have conflated my position on this single matter to assume I’m anti-equality or that I share the personal beliefs of the bakers.
Click to expand...

Extremists, as discussed in that other thread.
 
Bake it so.

Anyway he's right: that cake issue is more freedom of speech than equality (unless the bakery refuses to make any cakes for gays).
 
It wouldn't be okay if they decided to turn away a cake that says I Support Black Rights so I'm not sure why it's any different here.
 
This'll be a bit nuanced, but there's a difference between types of service refusal.

If Generic Wedding Cake were on sale and the Baker would sell it to Straight Couple - but not to Gay Couple - that's discrimination based on identity or trait.

If Specific Message Cake were requested and the Baker refused to sell it to anyone, straight or gay, that's discrimination based on a product.

For a business that's open to the general public, I'm fine with product-based discrimination, so long as everyone is equally subject to it. I'm not fine with trait-based discrimination. If someone wants to discriminate based on traits, they can form a private cake club and evaluate membership applications.
 
Kinda surprised by some of the replies here. Is it just because it's Patrick Stewart?

Discrimination based on orientation because of holding onto beliefs in the tales of an old magical storybook is not something that should ever be supported. Backward religious "morals" should be respected because the religion is institutionalized and been around for a long time? Fuck that.
 
Living in Belfast, this has been a hot topic over the past few weeks. I get where Patrick Stewart is coming from with the freedom of speech angle, but when you have the people who own the bakery literally saying things such as "We continue to insist that we have done nothing wrong as we have discriminated against no individual but rather acted according to what the Bible teaches regarding marriage" then I sort of get the feeling that Patrick hasn't really bothered to look into it all.

He says that they have issues with what is actually stated on the cake. This is what the cake was supposed to look like:

ernie.jpg


So yeah, stuff.
 
genjiZERO said:
The difference is the trait of the message not the customer.
Click to expand...
How is Support Gay Rights any different than Support Black Rights? I mean if we think he's "right" in a legal sense then sure, I guess, but if one refuses to make that cake I'm still free to think of them as a jerk from a moral/ethical perspective.
 
maquiladora said:
Kinda surprised by some of the replies here. Is it just because it's Patrick Stewart?

Discrimination based on orientation because of holding onto beliefs in the tales of an old magical storybook is not something that should ever be supported. Backward religious "morals" should be respected because the religion is institutionalized and been around for a long time? Fuck that.
Click to expand...

Unless I misunderstood it, they didn't refuse to make the cake they refused to write the message?

Is this worth getting up in arms about?

What if we asked them to write "Fuck <insert minority here>!" and someone said no to that?

Edit: I don't know, I think I'm just getting exhausted with fighting over shit like cake. No one is taking anything away from me, I think I'm just ready to move on and find a new bakery. My lack of money in their pockets can talk.
 
I agree with Patrick Stewart. The owners can hate and refuse service to whoever they want, even gays. That doesn't mean they're right though
 
mrklaw said:
don't most stores have a 'we reserve the right to refuse service' or something? Or is that just bullshit and not legally enforcable?
Click to expand...

greatgeek said:
Bullshit.
Click to expand...

You can refuse service, it just can't be based on discriminatory reasoning. For example you can refuse service to people who are obnoxiously drunk or disrupting your business. You can't refuse service based on sex, race, or religion federally. Whether you can refuse based on sexual orientation is a matter of which state you're in.
 
Dissonance said:
I mean if we think he's "right" in a legal sense then sure, I guess, but if one refuses to make that cake I'm still free to think of them as a jerk from a moral/ethical perspective.
Click to expand...

well, absolutely, that's the whole point of his statement.
 
Dissonance said:
It wouldn't be okay if they decided to turn away a cake that says I Support Black Rights so I'm not sure why it's any different here.
Click to expand...

Dumb comparison, but yes, it would need to be OK for them to refuse that, too, even if it makes them rather despicable as people.
 
I understand where he's coming from, but "if it offends you, it's out" seems like an impossible standard that could be used to exclude just about anyone.
 
If your religious beliefs say that gay marriage is wrong, then I think it is ok to refuse to do a cake that has a message supporting gay marriage.
We allow people to wear religious headress in certain situations or jobs, where people of other religions or non-religions are not allowed, simply because of their beliefs. If I were an atheist and wanted a cake that said 'jesus sucks' or something and they refused, I think they are within their right. This is a private business, and if they don't want to write a message that goes against their religious beliefs then I think that should be within their right.
As times change they will be in the minority of people that think that way, and as they see the world change around them, perhaps they will change their viewpoint. But until then I think they should be allowed to refuse the cake if they want.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Real or Cake?
12
943
daffyduck replied
Max only has 26 movies that support Dolby Atmos (in my country).
9
747
nush replied
UK considering charging Netflix users licence fee to support BBC
2 3
130
6K
Cyberpunkd replied
  • Locked
Resetera no longer supporting Twitter
3
1K
Hookshot replied
SAW 3 | A Finale on Life Support (HyperBitHero)
Opinion 
4
1K
HyperBitHero replied
Top Bottom