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[maxcriden]

Shmuplations has been doing some awesome work on their site. I saw this on Nintendo Life so credit goes to them as well for their article on it!

Some excerpts:

Miyamoto: If it was a simpler game, one that you just beat once and are done, then you could probably get rid of half of these mechanics, but we designed Yoshi’s Island so players would be able to replay the stages many times. That ended up giving us a lot of leeway for all the things we wanted to include.

—As this is the 10-year anniversary of Super Mario Bros., can you say something about each game in the series?

Miyamoto: Sure. During the development of Super Mario Bros., I was extremely worried and stressed out. But when I finally saw it up on the monitor, and saw how everyone was crowded around the screen, unable to pull themselves away, waiting patiently for their next turn… that was the first time I realized, “this game is going to be a hit!” And it was the first time since Donkey Kong that I had felt like something big was about to happen for me.

Super Mario Bros. 2 was a real maniac’s game. It started with our staff making a really hard Super Mario Bros. map just for fun, but when they played it, they actually enjoyed it, and decided to make a whole game like that. I think the whole messy situation with all the Super Mario bootlegs floating around Taiwan was another motivation.

As for Super Mario Bros. 3, this was where I switched over to the role of Director. I consider this the “real” sequel to Super Mario Bros. When most people think of a sequel, for movies and whatnot, I think they usually imagine a simple rehash of the original with the visuals and presentation upped a notch. Our point of departure for Mario 3, however, was to make something distinct from what we’d done before.

With Super Mario World we were dealing with the new Super Famicom hardware, so there we did endeavor to create a more impressive, upgraded Mario game in comparison with the Famicom titles. Joining the land and water levels together into one stage, was one such idea. I was very happy with how the graphics and the three-directional scrolling (vertical plus left/right) came out.

—I understand that the next Mario game will be for your new 64-bit machine.

Miyamoto: In the new Mario, I want to leave behind traditional-but-absurd gameplay notions, like bumping into an enemy==death. I want to try and make it a game that can appeal a little more broadly to players. The other staff members at Nintendo are still caught up in the pursuit of “tension”, but I think that if you include enough enjoyable elements in a game, it’s ok for it not to be tense in that same old way.

Full interview at the link:

http://shmuplations.com/yoshi/

 

[Nanashrew]

I need people to draw a lot of full bearded Marios.

 

[Stopdoor]

Interesting that he was actually for moving Mario to a health-based system instead of single-hits, considering they've gone back to that now.

 

[ItsTheNew]

Takashi Tezuka

We deliberately chose not to go for realistic graphics like Donkey Kong Country: we wanted take a chance and do the opposite. Probably every game from here on out is going to look more like Donkey Kong Country…

He wasn't wrong, thank god Nintendo and some other Devs bucked the trend of chasing crude, realistic art styles that made the 32/64 bit era so damn ugly.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Takashi Tezuka

He wasn't wrong, thank god Nintendo and some other Devs bucked the trend of chasing crude, realistic art styles that made the 32/64 bit era so damn ugly.

Somewhat reminds me of TWW situation where everyone wanted the tech demo art style and wanted a more modern, realistic LOTR-esque Zelda as that was what was in(and still is).

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

Somewhat reminds me of TWW situation where everyone wanted the tech demo art style and wanted a more modern, realistic LOTR-esque Zelda as that was what was in(and still is).

I think Skyward Sword had a good blend. They polygons of the characters were fairly normal, but the colors were vibrant and the world had detailed textures.

 

[Wiped89]

Even now, I don’t have the utmost confidence that I can create an innovative, timely, relevant product through the medium of video games. And yet, making video games is what fits me, and I actually know how to design them, so in that sense it’s comfortable for me.

I know the way I’m talking sounds like my head is in the clouds, but I joined Nintendo because I wanted to create a product that people would talk about and remember. And that’s what I want to do in the future, too: create something that will make an impact on the world..

Three years before Ocarina of Time released, 11 years before the Nintendo Wii.

Wow.

 

[Rhanitan]

I agree with miyamoto, grown mario in a diaper would have been hilarious. He should have put his foot down for that one.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Yoshi's Island continues to be the the best platformer on the SNES and, sadly, the only great game in that sub series.

I'm still salty over Yoshi's Story. Bought that game blindly after my love for YI and it ended up being the first Nintendo game I bought and sold in my life. Such a dissapointment.

 

[Spirit Icana]

This interview reveals that "tension" in their games was actually a topic of debate within Nintendo back then. Interesting.

I think those old developers may still have a point, Miyamoto. : P

Tense moments can still be "enjoyable" moments. In fact, they may just be the most enjoyable and memorable moments (Ornstein & Smough anyone?). Maybe have those moments spread out along with the more relaxed moments, and the players will be in good shape.

The old Super Mario Bros games never seemed consistently too hard and difficult. The tough parts were begging to be conquered, and when we lose, it makes players like me want to rise up again to the challenge, knowing we can totally do it. : D

 

[Not]

In the new Mario, I want to leave behind traditional-but-absurd gameplay notions, like bumping into an enemy==death. I want to try and make it a game that can appeal a little more broadly to players. The other staff members at Nintendo are still caught up in the pursuit of “tension”, but I think that if you include enough enjoyable elements in a game, it’s ok for it not to be tense in that same old way.

This is so tight. What a pioneer.

 

[Fewr]

Yoshi's Island continues to be the the best platformer on the SNES and, sadly, the only great game in that sub series.

I'm still salty over Yoshi's Story. Bought that game blindly after my love for YI and it ended up being the first Nintendo game I bought and sold in my life. Such a dissapointment.

Haha, same. I can't believe how bad that is. It felt like a game meant to be rented and enjoyed for a weekend, not something worth keeping.

 

[daTRUballin]

Donkey Kong Country's graphics still look fine.

Come at me, GAF.

 

[Spirit Icana]

This is so tight. What a pioneer.

But when they went to back to that tradition, one hit=death, unless you find and obtain a mushroom, which they made much easier to grab in the "NEW" series, the games exploded in sales.

Which makes the "I want to try and make it a game that can appeal a little more broadly to players" thing interesting.

Regardless, Super Mario 64 was great. Title was revolutionary in many ways, but the controls were expanded and immensely more complex to mess with and master for the 3D world. They left tense and simple, to easy but complex. Mario 64 was still great though. It had moments like racing that penguin in the ice stage. Finding that invisible path was magic.

 

[Peltz]

Yoshi's Island continues to be the the best platformer on the SNES and, sadly, the only great game in that sub series.

I'm still salty over Yoshi's Story. Bought that game blindly after my love for YI and it ended up being the first Nintendo game I bought and sold in my life. Such a dissapointment.

Yoshi's Wooly World is the 2nd great game in that sub-series in my humble opinion.

 

[wild wild rice]

Great read, thanks!

 

[MoonFrog]

But when they went to back to that tradition, one hit=death, unless you find and obtain a mushroom, which they made much easier to grab in the "NEW" series, the games exploded in sales.

Which makes the "I want to try and make it a game that can appeal a little more broadly to players" thing interesting.

Regardless, Super Mario 64 was great. Title was revolutionary in many ways, but the controls were expanded and immensely more complex to mess with and master for the 3D world. They left tense and simple, to easy but complex. Mario 64 was still great though. It had moments like racing that penguin in the ice stage. Finding that invisible path was magic.

Yeah especially given the new dialectic is 3D is too daunting for beginners and, therefore, they need to be eased into it by 2D gaming rules. A bit of a sad statement on the 3D revolution of the late 90s.

 

[Sapiens]

Donkey Kong Country's graphics still look fine.

Come at me, GAF.

They look great on a CRT.

 

[Mike Golf]

Thanks for bringing this to GAF OP, very good read. I love reading Miyamoto's comments on past titles, his words ring true and carry weight even these 20 some years later. DKC was incredibly impressive for its time but after playing both YI and DKC countless times over, YI holds up much better.

 

[Richie]

Three years before Ocarina of Time released, 11 years before the Nintendo Wii.

Wow.

Seriously got vibes similar to....

 

[@MUWANdo]

But when they went to back to that tradition, one hit=death, unless you find and obtain a mushroom, which they made much easier to grab in the "NEW" series, the games exploded in sales.

Which makes the "I want to try and make it a game that can appeal a little more broadly to players" thing interesting.

Regardless, Super Mario 64 was great. Title was revolutionary in many ways, but the controls were expanded and immensely more complex to mess with and master for the 3D world. They left tense and simple, to easy but complex. Mario 64 was still great though. It had moments like racing that penguin in the ice stage. Finding that invisible path was magic.

The comments he made in this interview are similar to many comments he made during the early 3D era; he's not specifically commenting on difficulty or challenge, but more about the explicit "gaminess" of his products and how it's okay to lose some of that rigidity in exchange for immersing the player more deeply into the world.

 

[Nanashrew]

This interview reveals that "tension" in their games was actually a topic of debate within Nintendo back then. Interesting.

I think those old developers may still have a point, Miyamoto. : P

Tense moments can still be "enjoyable" moments. In fact, they may just be the most enjoyable and memorable moments (Ornstein & Smough anyone?). Maybe have those moments spread out along with the more relaxed moments, and the players will be in good shape.

The old Super Mario Bros games never seemed consistently too hard and difficult. The tough parts were begging to be conquered, and when we lose, it makes players like me want to rise up again to the challenge, knowing we can totally do it. : D

This still happens in their games. Game Makers Toolkit actually has a really good video on how Nintendo makes their levels in Mario games, more specifically he talks NSMBU. There are moments of relaxation and moments of tension. And with the introduction of red coins, those can provide a mundane area to be more suspenseful with you trying to race to collect them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0c5Le1vGp4

It's a good video. He also goes into a couple of other Mario games too on their gimmicks, tricks and such.

 

[casiopao]

Yoshi's Island continues to be the the best platformer on the SNES and, sadly, the only great game in that sub series.

I'm still salty over Yoshi's Story. Bought that game blindly after my love for YI and it ended up being the first Nintendo game I bought and sold in my life. Such a dissapointment.

Hey Wooly World is damn good too here.

 

[Volotaire]

This still happens in their games. Game Makers Toolkit actually has a really good video on how Nintendo makes their levels in Mario games, more specifically he talks NSMBU. There are moments of relaxation and moments of tension. And with the introduction of red coins, those can provide a mundane area to be more suspenseful with you trying to race to collect them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0c5Le1vGp4

It's a good video. He also goes into a couple of other Mario games too on their gimmicks, tricks and such.

Game Makers Toolkit is a great series.

 

[Rymuth]

Hey Wooly World is damn good too here.

No lie detected

 

[Ochi]

Definitely a cool read. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Yeah especially given the new dialectic is 3D is too daunting for beginners and, therefore, they need to be eased into it by 2D gaming rules. A bit of a sad statement on the 3D revolution of the late 90s.

Given that the overwhelming majority of children are introduced to gaming via Minecraft these days, often navigating a 3D environment without any physical buttons on mobile, or way more buttons than is needed with a keyboard and mouse on PC, I'd say 3D gaming is just as easy for children to grasp today as it was for kids in the 90's.

If anything, I'd argue traditional 2D games sell better to adults looking for nostalgia, and the more successful mobile 2D games are dumbed down easy to understand time wasters, neither of which are looking for a youthful audience.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Yoshi's Island continues to be the the best platformer on the SNES and, sadly, the only great game in that sub series.

I'm still salty over Yoshi's Story. Bought that game blindly after my love for YI and it ended up being the first Nintendo game I bought and sold in my life. Such a dissapointment.

I love Yoshi's Story, especially the visuals. I'm so glad Nintendo made it. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I have really fond memories of it.

 

[maxcriden]

They look great on a CRT.

No doubt they look best there, but they do look surprisingly good on Wii U VC.

 

[KooopaKid]

Awesome read, thanks!

 

[Pancakes R Us]

No doubt they look best there, but they do look surprisingly good on Wii U VC.

Is that on a big screen or the gamepad you're referring to?

 

[maxcriden]

Is that on a big screen or the gamepad you're referring to?

Big screen. Surprisingly. Your eyes get used to it pretty quickly. I think they look better than they did on Wii.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Big screen. Surprisingly. Your eyes get used to it pretty quickly. I think they look better than they did on Wii.

Thanks, good to know, especially given people's complains about how VC games look on Wii U compared to Wii (darker or something).

 

[Spirit Icana]

This still happens in their games. Game Makers Toolkit actually has a really good video on how Nintendo makes their levels in Mario games, more specifically he talks NSMBU. There are moments of relaxation and moments of tension. And with the introduction of red coins, those can provide a mundane area to be more suspenseful with you trying to race to collect them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0c5Le1vGp4

It's a good video. He also goes into a couple of other Mario games too on their gimmicks, tricks and such.

Nice video! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Admiral Alliteration]

I'm so glad Shmuplations unearthed this. Previously there was next to nothing known about the development of Super Mario World 2 – aside from that widely known Miyamoto anecdote about how he made the graphics more cartoon-ish after Donkey Kong Country was released, which came from from Kent's book. SMW2 is one of the few Mario games (along with Super Mario Land 1 + 2) with next to no development information, so this was a great find.

 

[Nightbird]

This still happens in their games. Game Makers Toolkit actually has a really good video on how Nintendo makes their levels in Mario games, more specifically he talks NSMBU. There are moments of relaxation and moments of tension. And with the introduction of red coins, those can provide a mundane area to be more suspenseful with you trying to race to collect them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0c5Le1vGp4

It's a good video. He also goes into a couple of other Mario games too on their gimmicks, tricks and such.

Oh wow, I will definitely design my next level with that design philosophy!

 

[maxcriden]

Thanks, good to know, especially given people's complains about how VC games look on Wii U compared to Wii (darker or something).

Ah, I have to add a caveat then, my friend. SNES games on Wii U VC look better than they do on Wii. NES and N64 ones are the ones with the darkness filter problem, and look better on Wii, and still very good and better than Wii U over on 3DS. On the bright side, no pun intended, apparently the darkness filter looks not as bad IRL as it does in screens online but I still stick to Wii for most NES/N64 VC, I suppose unless I felt like it was a game where save states would be crucial. Though Wii has such a better selection for those systems to begin with.

 

[Yoshi]

Given that the overwhelming majority of children are introduced to gaming via Minecraft these days, often navigating a 3D environment without any physical buttons on mobile, or way more buttons than is needed with a keyboard and mouse on PC, I'd say 3D gaming is just as easy for children to grasp today as it was for kids in the 90's.

If anything, I'd argue traditional 2D games sell better to adults looking for nostalgia, and the more successful mobile 2D games are dumbed down easy to understand time wasters, neither of which are looking for a youthful audience.

Minecraft does not put a lot of weight on the player skill though, so even if you have difficultiesnavigation with precision, it won't hamper your enjoyment (if you can get any from Minecraft, I cannot). Super Mario games demand for precision in your 3D movement which can be quite difficult, particularly if you only have a two-dimensional projection of the 3D game world at hand.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Ah, I have to add a caveat then, my friend. SNES games on Wii U VC look better than they do on Wii. NES and N64 ones are the ones with the darkness filter problem, and look better on Wii, and still very good and better than Wii U over on 3DS. On the bright side, no pun intended, apparently the darkness filter looks not as bad IRL as it does in screens online but I still stick to Wii for most NES/N64 VC, I suppose unless I felt like it was a game where save states would be crucial. Though Wii has such a better selection for those systems to begin with.

Ah, alright. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[maxcriden]

Ah, alright. Thanks for clarifying.

For you, anytime, Flapjacks!

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Super Mario Bros. 2 was a real maniac’s game. It started with our staff making a really hard Super Mario Bros. map just for fun, but when they played it, they actually enjoyed it, and decided to make a whole game like that. I think the whole messy situation with all the Super Mario bootlegs floating around Taiwan was another motivation.

Wait, does this mean there were Super Mario Bros equivalents of Street fighter 2 Black Belt edition back in 1986?

I’ve been asked before why we made a game with Yoshi as the main character. The main reason is that that wanted to make a Mario-style action game that even young children would be able to play. For that, the friendly character of Yoshi seemed perfect to us. I’ve also been wanting to make a pure action game that used Yoshi for a long time now.

That sure puts Yoshi's Story into perspective.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Hey Wooly World is damn good too here.

Co-signed.

 

[Sapiens]

Wait, does this mean there were Super Mario Bros equivalents of Street fighter 2 Black Belt edition back in 1986?


That sure puts Yoshi's Story into perspective.

If you lived in a mid-sized or bigger american city in the 80s and your rental store was "cool", (ie not Blockbusters), they made sure to have a decent selection of bootlegs for you to rent. Our local video store even had a bootleg of the real Mario Bros 2 for us that worked in our NA Neses.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I love Yoshi's Story, especially the visuals. I'm so glad Nintendo made it. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I have really fond memories of it.

Can I ask how old were you when you played Yoshi's Story for the first time? 'Cause I was 11 and even to me it looked and felt like a game designed for babies. Its aesthetics, its simple gameplay, nonexistent difficulty, 20 minute-long length, and ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that music... it all catered to very small children. Something the SNES one with a friggin' baby front and center managed to avoid!

 

[Brazil]

Thanks for sharing, OP, that was a great read!

He was a bit more honest back then, wasn't he?

 

[maxcriden]

Can I ask how old were you when you played Yoshi's Story for the first time? 'Cause I was 11 and even to me it looked and felt like a game designed for babies. Its aesthetics, its simple gameplay, nonexistent difficulty, 20 minute-long length, and ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that music... it all catered to very small children. Something the SNES one with a friggin' baby front and center managed to avoid!

I want to say I was...the same age? I had the same experience. I'd never played Yoshi's Island, though, so for me Yoshi's Story was just this game for babies. It amped up Nintendo's "for kids only" image. I guess I was just about to turn 10 when it came out and I probably had just recently gotten or was about to get my N64. Hmm. I know I did own the game but I never got into it too much because I felt so babied by it. I know it's a tough game to do the all melons run and everything but I could never work up the interest for it. Tried it again on Wii VC not long ago and it was my wife's first time playing it and both of us were kind of bored with it pretty quickly despite my hope to see what's special about the game beyond the art and that rockin' OST. I've got the OST on my iPod Touch though and listen to it on the reg. I'm listening to the SM64 OST now and I'll gently headbang to that one next. Here in my (Koopa) car. Where I feel safest of all.

 

[SOR5]

I laughed at "real maniacs game"

Thats my shiggy

 

[Allan Holdsworth]

Can I ask how old were you when you played Yoshi's Story for the first time? 'Cause I was 11 and even to me it looked and felt like a game designed for babies. Its aesthetics, its simple gameplay, nonexistent difficulty, 20 minute-long length, and ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that music... it all catered to very small children. Something the SNES one with a friggin' baby front and center managed to avoid!

The funny thing is that it's the hardest Yoshi game to 100% (all melon run). Or at least the most annoying and frustrating.

 

[maxcriden]

The funny thing is that it's the hardest Yoshi game to 100% (all melon run). Or at least the most annoying and frustrating.

It's hard for me to believe it's harder than 100%'ing m(any) of the other YI's. Maybe most annoying and frustrating I can buy. #paging AgentUnknown

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Can I ask how old were you when you played Yoshi's Story for the first time? 'Cause I was 11 and even to me it looked and felt like a game designed for babies. Its aesthetics, its simple gameplay, nonexistent difficulty, 20 minute-long length, and ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that music... it all catered to very small children. Something the SNES one with a friggin' baby front and center managed to avoid!

I think I was around 15 when I played it. Yes, the Yoshi baby voice tunes weren't appealing at all, but I had a lot of fun playing it - visuals helped a lot. I really like that level with the massive mama Cheep Cheep that jumps up and swallows you if you're not careful.