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PS3 Nvidia GPU will deploy more transistors than ALL GPUs + CPUs of current consoles

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midnightguy

Member
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=116466&eventID=1060901

Nvidia CEO said in the recent conference call:

________________
"we are days away from the beginning of one of the most exciting eras in the videogame industry. the amount of technology we're developing is nothing short of astounding. The nvidia GPU driving the next generation Playstation will deploy more transistors, than all of the CPUs and GPUs, in all three current generation game consoles combined."

"The power of the Playstation GPU coupled with the Cell processor, will give the developers the ability to create unbelivable content. We are really excited to be working with Sony, on one of the most important computer entertainment, and digital consumer platforms, of the 21st century." - Jen-Hsun Huang
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well lets see....

transistor counts

PS2 Emotion Engine CPU: 13 million
PS2 Graphics Synthesizer: 43 million
Gamecube Gekko CPU: 21 million
Gamecube Flipper GPU: 51 million

Xbox Intel CPU: 9 million ? (or 23 million?)
Xbox NV2A GPU: 63 million

that is 200-214 million transistors for all the CPUs and GPUs in the current consoles. not certain about the amount in Gekko or Xbox CPU (but i must be close). this 200-214 million number (all current console CPUs+GPUs) *has* to be within 15 million transistors of error.


so Nvidia PS3 GPU will have more than 214 million transistors.

well that is not saying much since NV40 - GeForce 6800 had 222 million transistors anyway.

so Nvidia CEO statement is not impressive in and of itself -- that is, if Nvidia PS3 GPU has only slightly more than all the CPUs and GPUs of the current consoles put together. because if the PS3 GPU is in the two hundred millions range, then that is far less than originall expected.

PS3 GPU was expected to be around 500 million minimum, and upwards of 1 billion -- going by all the talk of the last few years. and this has little or nothing to do with how many Cells. this was going by Sony's own comments about EE3, and the assumption that the PS3 GPU would have lots of eDRAM.

the Nvidia CEO did not mention Xbox360 GPU at all.
 
midnightguy said:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=116466&eventID=1060901

Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang said in the recent conference call, that Playstation3's GPU will deploy (contain) more transistors than all the GPUs and all the CPUs in all three of the current consoles.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us where in the webcast he says that, so I can jump to it? Thanks! :)

But...I'd expect it to have more transistors than the CPUs or GPUs in the current consoles, I think that's a given..
 
GhaleonEB said:
How many does the ATI one on the 360 have? I thought it was way over 200m transistors as well.
Click to expand...

IGN says 150m.

But according to midnightguy's post, they made no reference to next-gen consoles. Just current consoles..

edit - oh, wait, he said all cpus + gpus combined?
 
According to my quick google search:

PS2 GS = 53mil
GC Flipper = 51mil
XBox NV2A = 66mil

Total = 170mil


edit: Oh, CPUs too?


Wasn't the X360 GPU something like 150mil?

Perhaps PS3 GPU has true eDRAM like PS2? If that's for enough frame buffer for 1920x1080, I wonder how much transistor that accounts for? 30mil? More?
 
I think we need a direct quote :p If you could let us know where we should start listening it'd be greatly appreciated, midnightguy :)
 
Right, I heard it: he said more transistors than all of the CPUs and GPUs in all 3 current systems combined. So, north of 200m, judging by midnightguy's numbers.
 
gofreak: the entire audio begins at the 48:40 min mark -


the main PS3 segment (there are at least 3) where Nvidia CEO mentions that PS3 GPU will have more transistors than the combined transistors of the CPUs and GPUs of all the current consoles is at the 1:09:40 minutes in
 
midnightguy said:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=116466&eventID=1060901

Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang said in the recent conference call, that Playstation3's GPU will deploy (contain) more transistors than all the GPUs and all the CPUs in all three of the current consoles

hmmm!!!

PS2 EE CPU: 13 million
PS2 GS 43 million

Gamecube CPU: 21 million?
Gamecube GPU: 51 million

Xbox CPU: 9 million ? (or 23 million?)
Xbox GPU: 63 million

that is 200-214 million transistors for all the CPUs and GPUs in the current consoles. these numbers HAVE to be within 15 million transistors of error.


so Nvidia PS3 GPU will have more than 214 million

well that is not saying much since NV40 - GeForce 6800 had 222 million transistors anyways.

not impressive in and of itself, if Nvidia PS3 GPU is only slightly more than all the CPUs and GPUs of the current consoles put together, because if the GPU is in the two hundred millions, that is ALOT less than expected. PS3 GPU was expected to be 500 million minimum and upwards of 1 billion -- going by all the talk of the last few years. and this has little or nothing to do with how many Cells. this was going by Sony's own comments about EE3, and the assumption that the PS3 GPU would have lots of eDRAM.
the Nvidia CEO did not mention Xbox360 GPU at all.
Click to expand...

Bunch of senseless fluff from the one and only Nvidia..they do this all the f'n time too and when final product arrives..everyones underwelmed like always. I swear..sony and nvidia is a match made in heaven lol
 
midnightguy said:
PS3 GPU was expected to be around 500 million minimum, and upwards of 1 billion -- going by all the talk of the last few years. and this has little or nothing to do with how many Cells. this was going by Sony's own comments about EE3, and the assumption that the PS3 GPU would have lots of eDRAM.
Click to expand...

Can you link to those comments?

Anyway, you must understand that an Nvidia gpu is going to be very different from simply a GS multiplied by whatever.

~200m transistors is about what i expected. A console is a very closed system, 1bn transistors was never going to happen..
 
Moegames said:
Bunch of senseless fluff from the one and only Nvidia..they do this all the f'n time too and when final product arrives..everyones underwelmed like always. I swear..sony and nvidia is a match made in heaven lol
Click to expand...


aww....you're gonna have to do better than that...
 
Also interesting to note that they refer to the PS3 as...the PS3. NVidia had before said that Sony weren't calling it that, but I think it's safe to say that'll be the final name.

Also, they mentioned we should see their next-generation part next week at E3..I wonder if they mean as part of PS3?
 
gofreak said:
Also interesting to note that they refer to the PS3 as...the PS3. NVidia had before said that Sony weren't calling it that, but I think it's safe to say that'll be the final name.

Also, they mentioned we should see their next-generation part next week at E3..I wonder if they mean as part of PS3?
Click to expand...


yeah, Jen says 'next generation playstation' but the other nvidia guy actually says Playstation3 :)


i think the next PC part means G70. which may, or may not be related to the PS3 GPU.
 
I hope that PS3 GPU has, at bare minimum, more power/performance than SLI'd GeForce 6800 Ultra's. (as the recent reports sugguest, that SLI'd 6800Us do not scratch the surface of what the final PS3 chipset will be able to do)

now, SLI'd 6800Us do not provide 2x the performance of a single 6800U, but more like 20 to 60 percent more performance, maybe even 80 percent more in some cases, but never double.
 
I may have been mishearing, but was there a little info in there about PS3 technology licensing? Starting in their Q3? That'd be August - October, which would about tie in with when they said they'd be finishing work on the GPU before. Maybe I picked that up wrongly though..
 
If its a G70 design going in the PS3 that would make it possible for a 2005 launch for sure, also the G70 certaintly wouldn't have much over the 360 GPU. Nvidia said the PS3 GPU would be something new, G80 etc. If Nvidia are saying the part is nearly ready that will not be the G80. I doubt we will hear anything at E3, but you never know.
 
Pug said:
Nvidia said the PS3 GPU would be something new, G80 etc.
Click to expand...

Well, they said it'd be of a new architecture, but they didn't throw out codenames ;) We'll see how it all fits together. PS3's GPU may not be wholly one or the other.

Pug said:
If Nvidia are saying the part is nearly ready that will not be the G80. I doubt we will hear anything at E3, but you never know.
Click to expand...

I'd expect to hear at E3, at least about the PS3 GPU. I don't think they're saying it's "nearly ready" though, I got the feeling they'd were saying they'd wrap up work on it by October, and pass it to Sony then. Who knows, though, again we've no real idea where PS3 fits in yet in terms of NVidia's gpu families.
 
Add in Blue-Ray ect how much is this thing supposed to retail for? What with PSP I can see another big loss for each unit sold. Wasn't the new guy brought into Sony to actually MAKE money?
 
COCKLES said:
Add in Blue-Ray ect how much is this thing supposed to retail for? What with PSP I can see another big loss for each unit sold. Wasn't the new guy brought into Sony to actually MAKE money?
Click to expand...

I get te feeling blu-ray may be dropped, just a hunch.
 
gofreak said:
Well, they said it'd be of a new architecture, but they didn't throw out codenames ;) We'll see how it all fits together. PS3's GPU may not be wholly one or the other.



I'd expect to hear at E3, at least about the PS3 GPU. I don't think they're saying it's "nearly ready" though, I got the feeling they'd were saying they'd wrap up work on it by October, and pass it to Sony then. Who knows, though, again we've no real idea where PS3 fits in yet in terms of NVidia's gpu families.
Click to expand...


I agree with everything you said here. :)
 
Endymion said:
To win, sometimes you have to look much further in the distance than the immediate launch losses.
Click to expand...

How about co-habitation instead of winning ;)

Well Im just trying to look at it objectively if Sony do intend to pack all of the following into the PS3 : 8 SPE cell,blu-ray, large NV GPU . They are going to either take more than "immediate lanch losses" or find alternate sources of revenue generation.

PS: The 500 million transistor NV GPU is well ridiculously optimistic. ITs not like we need to run Doom 3 at 1600x1200 4xAA, 8xAF and still get 60FPS.
 
Drexon said:
They're having a meeting _tomorrow_ about the future of HD-DVD/Blu-ray. :)
Click to expand...

Where did you read that? :)

I heard on CNN a few days ago that the unification is leaning towards a BD standard (they were interviewing some tech guy I presume). Also they said a delay in the new format could also delay "the next generation of Sony PlayStation".
 
I think Kutaragi should just get his engineers working fulltime on 65nm as both Cell and NV GPU are going to be a bitch to cool (especially at load and running continuously at load). We're looking at 1kg of aluminum and copper heatpipes plus fans. PS3 will be heavy and expensive.

I'm glad the Japanese are nice enough to subsidize the cost of the machine when it launches first in Japan. ;) I would estimate $499(US) for Japan launch if it comes with Next Gen DVD playback and a HD included. Don't expect it to be small either. Could be a whale of a console. :lol
 
Forsete said:
Where did you read that? :)

I heard on CNN a few days ago that the unification is leaning towards a BD standard (they were interviewing some tech guy I presume). Also they said a delay in the new format could also delay "the next generation of Sony PlayStation".
Click to expand...

Well if they do end up going with one standard I hope its blu-ray.
A delay of the next play-station huh this is why I think they might have to drop it if the wranglings are nto sorted quickly enough cant give microsoft a 1.5 year head start can we.
 
COCKLES said:
Add in Blue-Ray ect how much is this thing supposed to retail for? What with PSP I can see another big loss for each unit sold. Wasn't the new guy brought into Sony to actually MAKE money?
Click to expand...

Sony has always been very product-orientated with the Playstation line, I don't know why this would be surprising. They can also pack stuff into their system for less than either Nintendo or MS, and I'd expect them to take advantage of that. They have the volumes to support a very high initial investment, and thusfar it's paid off for them every time they've adopted this strategy. PS3 is, strategically, a highly important product for Sony, so I'd expect it to be a high-investment piece for them (and thusfar it has been).


Forsete said:
Where did you read that? :)
Click to expand...

A japanese newspaper reported that the HD-DVD and Bluray forums would be meeting on Monday, with the aim of selling a unified deal to them (thusfar, Sony, Toshiba and another company, I believe, have been heading talks, but any agreement would have to be "sold" to all the other partners in their respective camps). If that happens you may hear about it tommorrow morning (by my time, anyway, GMT). They also claimed they were close to a deal which would see Bluray's physical format and HD-DVD's software being adopted, which wouldn't delay PS3 at all. Both Sony and Toshiba denied the report, however. We'll see if the paper was correct..(i hope they were, but i have some doubts..)
 
faster.jpg
 
COCKLES said:
Add in Blue-Ray ect how much is this thing supposed to retail for?
Click to expand...

Not this shit again, every console cycle it's the same arguments. You know, Seppuku is an honorable choice.
 
If we are going by those numbers the Xbox 1 to PS2 is more powerful than the PS3 to Xbox 360 or is it vice versa?
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
If we are going by those numbers the Xbox 1 to PS2 is more powerful than the PS3 to Xbox 360 or is it vice versa?
Click to expand...
Transistor count can not be equated directly to power/features.
 
Gattsu25 said:
english please? what the hell is the benefit of having more transistors? is this an example of 10mil sales = WIN logic?
Click to expand...


we're talking about the architecture of the graphics chip inside PS3. without getting overlly technical. this isnt a sales thread :)
 
Gattsu25 said:
english please? what the hell is the benefit of having more transistors? is this an example of 10mil sales = WIN logic?
Click to expand...

Everything else being equal, a greater transistor budget should yield a more powerful chip. But everything else rarely is equal.

I'm more interested to see the GPU configuration, it's specs etc. That should be far more telling as to where it stands.
 
Gattsu25 said:
english please? what the hell is the benefit of having more transistors? is this an example of 10mil sales = WIN logic?
Click to expand...
More transistors usually means it's more complex but also generates more heat (craming more into the allowable die size). For comparison sake though, I guess you could say it's a lot like the Intel/AMD cpu rating scheme. You can get a 3GHz PIV, but a 2.2GHz AMD 64 will beat the pants off of it. It all depends on how you use it (ie. a 220M Trans part might be better than a 250M trans part from another company).
 
I know it's not a sales thread but what I was getting at is what exactly does this number of transistor pimpage mean? Is it a truly important figure or is it not as important as it seems? Does thinking that “more transistors = better” mean the same thing as thinking “10 mil sales = win” (ie. diluted “logic”)?

edit: much thanks, pestul and gofreak!
 
I was going by the numbers used then I realized they were being used in theory, so pardon my post
 
gofreak said:
Also interesting to note that they refer to the PS3 as...the PS3. NVidia had before said that Sony weren't calling it that, but I think it's safe to say that'll be the final name.?
Click to expand...

In other news, the sky is blue.
 
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