Support NeoGAF

[Bebpo]

Ok, I know there are a few people on this forum who are wise in the way of Beatmania so I have a question.

I picked up Beatmania IIDX 3rd Style back when it was released on the PS2 along with the controller. I really enjoyed the game but I was never that good at it, I could get up to about 5 stars after a few months and then I kinda stopped playing.

The other day I felt like getting back into Beatmania so I picked up IIDX 8th style and ummmm, there are almost no songs under 4 stars >_<. Like 80% of the new tracks are 7 stars are higher which is way above my league. I've lost most of the skills I gained 3 years ago so I'm barely getting by at 3 stars currently in 5 key (even 2 stars is tough for me in 7 key ;_

So since I really really suck at the game but I want to get better, are any of the versions from 4th-7th style more beginner-friendly? Like do any of them have a good selection of sub 5 star songs?

Thanks.

 

[ourumov]

I have the PAL beatmania which is 5 buttons + scratch. Much more accessible.

 

[aku:jiki]

I hear they're progressively harder and harder. Go for one of the oldest ones you could find, perhaps?

I agree with ourumov, though. 5-key PS1 Beatmania is much more fun. Not just because it's easier to get into, but also because the music was more about fun than "hardcore raver trance coolness" back then. Not that the IIDX music is necessarily bad, but I never thought it was a very fun change in direction.

 

[Bebpo]

Actually I picked up a couple of the PS1 Beatmania versions for cheap when I got 3rd style. good stuff, but the overall music encoding quality and presentation are just so much better on the PS2 versions that I'd rather find a PS2 one I could get into.

 

[fury]

Generally, the songs are progressively harder with each mix, but 4th Style is a bit hard to find now. I would suggest trying Light 7, because even though there are 2 more keys, IIRC the note patterns are generally a bit easier than 5 keys (plus you'll be able to go into full 7 easier).

 

[ourumov]

I have a friend who claimed to be a STAR in PSX beatmania. One day he invited me and I saw him playing.
He used both hands for the 5 buttons...I said that was cheating... I can't imagine him playing IIDX...He would use even the fingers of the feet.
What I mean is that there are certain games that even practising a lot are out of the range of mortals like us. I think IIDX is one of these games.

Anyways isn't there any normal beatmania for PS2 ? Not a IIDX one I mean.

 

[metroid23]

I politely disagree that 5-key is the way to go, please stick with 7

As for your problem, 3rd is really the "easiest" of the bunch. 5th (or was it 6th?) introduced a "beginner mode" which made everything 3 "stars" or easier, but if you're already doing 5 stars in light7, it may be too easy and not worth your time.

4th is rather fast. Konami got all hung up with eurobeat it seems. For CS they also introduced HS3 which wasn't in the arcade. As such, it's very fast.

5th brought in the revamp of the options menu which sped up gameplay but they also reduced the speed of HS3 to a very low level.

6th is very well rounded and easy to navigate. Lots of unlocks!

7th and 8th very similar both in terms of navigation and music selection. Both are also very hard. 7th introduced the first 7star L7 song. Look for the same in 9th.

Personally, I would go with what version has the music you like best and then just practice practice practice.

Go here for a list of difficulties (as well as note charts) for each style- keeping in mind that this is for the arcade and that the CS version of the same game varies slightly.

Hope that helps!

edit:
ourumov: There are no PS2 5-key beatmania avalible. Of course, you can always play your PS1 5-key BM on the PS2 without any problems. Or if you're cheap, you can play IIDX in 5-key mode

 

[Bebpo]

Thanks! That helped a bunch.

I think I'll keep practicing with the few doable 8th style tracks since I'm kinda bored of the 3rd style songs at this point and then I'll grab 6th style used next time I see it.

 

[ourumov]

ourumov: There are no PS2 5-key beatmania avalible. Of course, you can always play your PS1 5-key BM on the PS2 without any problems. Or if you're cheap, you can play IIDX in 5-key mode

I still use one hand to play them. My friend uses both I don't care about using more or less buttons but to use them in the right way.
I think I always sucked when it comes to coordination games.

But it's a pity the 5 key controller from Beatmania PSX doesn't work with the IIDX ones.

 

[JackFrost2012]

I can't do 7 key to save my life, despite being a 5-key PSone Bemani star.

Guitar Freaks has the same difficulty problem, though (well, fortunately I'm good at Guitar Freaks). But the new mixes are HARD HARD HARD.

Cool, I just noticed that with the new Gitadora mix out this week, they FINALLY restandardized the numbers. Drum Mania has always been one behind Guitar Freaks, so the latest was GF11/DM10. The new mix is Guitar Freaks V and Drum Mania V - synchronicity at last!

EDIT: Just to add to what others are saying, most "pro" Bemani players use two hands, except the "insane pro" gamers who play 14-key mode.

 

[fury]

I don't care about using more or less buttons but to use them in the right way.

There is nothing wrong with using 2 hands. All the high skilled players use 2 hands.

 

[aku:jiki]

I still use one hand to play them. My friend uses both I don't care about using more or less buttons but to use them in the right way.
I think I always sucked when it comes to coordination games.

Who says you have to play with one hand? I can't imagine there being some unwritten rule about that. Having one hand just lay idle for half the game is no fun!

 

[ourumov]

Wait Wait
Are you telling me you play Beatmania with 2 hands ????

Shit. I played it with one hand because I saw tons of videos of people doing that way...I understand using 2 hands for 7 keys but...for the original 5-button one too ?

Shit...Now I see why I had so many problems.

 

[metroid23]

fury: Simply not true. I've seen some spectacular stuff by one handed players- please don't further that silly assumption.

The "one hand vs. two hand" argument is as silly as "left scratch vs right scratch."

For the record: Left scratch, 2 hands, 5 years.

 

[ourumov]

I don't see it silly. The game changes a lot. The coodination is much more easy with 2 hands than just using one...at least to my neural system.
Besides I think the game was done to have the Left hand on the buttons while the right one on the scratch.

 

[aku:jiki]

Shit. I played it with one hand because I saw tons of videos of people doing that way...I understand using 2 hands for 7 keys but...for the original 5-button one too ?

Shit...Now I see why I had so many problems.

Back in the day, Konami hosted some events and competitions for 5-key, and subsequently hosted videos of the winners on their site. Yes, they used both hands if necessary. I can't imagine even wanting to try SKA a GO GO without it.

 

[metroid23]

So, if you're a professional piano player, you would find using two hands easier than one for doing scales? Doubtful. It really is easier for some people.

Beatmania 5-key was probably created in mind with a Right scratch mentality, however, keep in mind that they also later added a "center" play mode that allowed you to use the 1p scratch and the 2p buttons for us "lefties."

By "silly" I mean that it's silly to argue that one is better or easier or whatever than the other. It is really on a song-by-song basis and you really wind up in the middle. No one benefits and what matters most in the end is what you can do with your play style.

 

[fury]

It's not an assumption. All the top Internet Rankers play 2 handed. I've seen some spectacular one handed play also--but scorewise it's been done better 2 handed. Personally, I could care less how anyone plays the game.

 

[bobbyconover]

I have a friend who claimed to be a STAR in PSX beatmania. One day he invited me and I saw him playing. He used both hands for the 5 buttons...I said that was cheating...

I've never been a fan of this argument. It might look cooler to one-hand the keys, but this widely-held idea that it's "cheating" is some serious bullshit. Two hands w/ "pinky scratch" works for myself and countless others, including some of the very best players. I refuse to believe that playing the game in the way that works best, and is the most fun, is cheating. If anything, the one-handers are showing off.

What I mean is that there are certain games that even practising a lot are out of the range of mortals like us. I think IIDX is one of these games.

Well, that's one way to look at it. I really do think that anyone is capable of getting at least fairly good at IIDX, though, if enough time is spent practicing. It's just not really possible to expect instant results like you can with, say, 5-Key Beatmania or Donkey Konga. You seriously have to play again and again and again for weeks, months or years if necessary, until you're good enough to instinctually move your fingers to the right places as you see the notes flying down at you. In that way, it's not unlike learning to play a real instrument. If you keep it up long enough, you will progress. I started off literally only able to pass 3 or 4 songs in IIDX 3rd Style when it came out, and that was after a couple years of playing 5-key Beatmania! It's that hard for everyone at first.

I've seen countless posts from Bemani players who thought they could never improve at a certain game - even the really hard ones - only to keep pushing and ultimately prevail. Metroid23 here, for instance, used to suck at Drummania compared to me. A few weeks passed, and he started matching and sometimes beating my high scores. A couple more months, and he could completely crush me at the game. The difference was that he kept actively practicing and trying to improve that entire time, while I just sat around resting on the skill that I already had. In other words, nobody starts off as one of those ridiculous IIDX (or Drummania, or whatever else) players who can full-combo the hardest songs, and nobody is a "mere mortal" incapable of getting that good. It's all about how hard you work at it.

 

[dog$]

First:
The whole one hand vs. two hand argument comes up quite often and the whole debate eventually boils down to -
· play in whatever style you feel comfortable with
· not using two hands is a deliberate handicap, particularly for scoring.
My style is one-handed 2P side (right scratch). I've been playing 5 key since PS1 2nd Mix was released and IIDX since 3rd came for PS2, and I can very rarely AAA any song that's 5* or less. I continue to play one-handed since I really don't feel like relearning 7-key for the sake of AAAing everything, so the consequence of that is that I'll never be anything but slightly-above-average at playing 7key. There are quite a few songs that I can pass on 14key which I can't on 7.
Also: Meet LISU, if you haven't already.
Here's a video of LISU playing this song. If there's a better one-handed player on this planet, I'm not aware of it; yet his end-score for this play, despite all of his effort, is handily crushed by people using two hands. That's just the way it is.
ps: the thing I most prefer about one-handed play is that I feel I have more control of scratching. *shrugs* Everyone has their own method and settings of playing and half will readily insult you for not mimicing theirs. Just remember that #s 1-11 of the Top 10 Ways to improve at IIDX is To Practice.

Second:
Bebpo, as for which style you should get next I'd probably say 7th or 6th. 8th has a lot of songs on 7th but also has a Beginners Mode. 5th and 6th have a thing called Drill Mode which is basically a specific set of routines to practice and also help reinforce timing and rhythm fundamentals. Beginner's Mode started in 5th (metroid23 was right), but I find 8th's to be sorta counter-productive.

Overall it's much more important to play what you have than to worry about which one to get next. Just be prepared to pay a lot for 4th if you really need to have them all. Also, if you haven't yet, for the love of God use the Hi-Speed mods. And make a point to regularly play songs you can't pass. I've failed The Safari 14K since 3rd Style and only managed to scrape a pass on it last week.

Third:

But it's a pity the 5 key controller from Beatmania PSX doesn't work with the IIDX ones.

Actually they do. Of course you can only use 5Key mode in IIDX for this, but they work.

Fourth:
Go sign up at the VJ Army (Bebpo, PM me for a referral code if you need it) and start punching your scores in. Watching your scores progress with the competition provides a lot of impetus for practice.

 

[JackFrost2012]

I just got back from the arcade and they had Gitadora V in! WOO!

Apparently going on the day (or day after?) a mix ships is when all the SCARY good players come out. I saw some guy full combo (980-something) a 5.0x SECRET SONG in Drum Mania. On the mix that came out yesterday. His internet ranking on the song at the end of that was top 50. Speaking of, I also finally broke down and bought a Gitadora card, so now I can stat track with the best of em. I shoulda done it years ago, but...

I played three games - one solo and two with another really nice guy who was way, way better than me. Well, I say that, but. He played at 6.0x speed; I played at 2.0x; he played on Extreme, and I played on Hard. But I was a hell of a lot more accurate (playing as I was on mortal settings), so our scores ended up mostly the same.

Oh, and I full comboed the first song I played on my first try!! Sakurambo - yeah, it was Basic 27, but a 333 hit combo makes me feel good.

There's also two new features at the end for folks with cards - Roulette and Gitadora Tower. Roulette randomly flips 3 squares on a 4x4 graphic. I dunno what happens when you unlock the full graphic. Gitadora Tower is a 3-reel slot which can unlock special abilities. I won an "Encore Ticket" which lets me play a secret, Encore Ticket-only song (one time!).

In any case, Gitadora V seems really like the start of a "new generation" for the franchise - it has a cool steampunk theme, the new enhanced card tracking bonuses are cool, and the interface has finally decently standardized all of the speed/hidden/whatever bonuses (well they finally fixes that around 10-11, but it's good to see it here, too).

EDIT: http://www.konami.co.jp/am/gfdm/gfdmv/top.html

 

[ara]

I've never been a fan of this argument. It might look cooler to one-hand the keys, but this widely-held idea that it's "cheating" is some serious bullshit. Two hands w/ "pinky scratch" works for myself and countless others, including some of the very best players. I refuse to believe that playing the game in the way that works best, and is the most fun, is cheating. If anything, the one-handers are showing off.

Clearly the game is easier with two hands, and yeah, it just goes without saying that it is fine to play the game however you feel like it. I must say though that I find playing with one hand to be immesurably more rewarding. There is a unique dynamic in having to move your hand around the keys that completely breaks down once you're able to dedicate each key to a finger the entire time. The game becomes quite different. I even play keyboardmania with one hand, except in the very few places in the game where it is physically impossible =].

To say that the one-handers are showing off is just as bad as saying that playing with two is cheating.

 

[daegan]

Back to the original question for a moment...

The "Beginner Mode" songs will stunt your growth as a player if you've been running things on 3rd Style in Light 7. However, 6th Style's Light 7 songs are mostly a lot harder than 3rd Style's. So it really depends on how much more time you want to spend with 3rd.

Tangent: Is anyone getting the BIG 9th Style box with the obnoxious amount of extras?

 

[Bebpo]

Checked out the local game store today and ended up getting 4th style and 5th style. I got 4th mainly because everyone in this thread said it was rare and it was only about $26 at this store. Got 5th for the drill mode/beginner mode.

Popped in 3rd style today for the first time in like 2 years and yea I realized my high point 2 years ago was getting up to 5 stars on easy difficulty on 5 key mode ^^; I think the farthest I ever got on light 7 was 2 stars.

Messing around with the light 7 on 5th style I can't do anything above 1 star currently :\ So I've started working on the drill mode and I'm really digging it. Although it's already becoming pretty tough for me as my main problem is just that my fingers are short and slow, so when they are several presses within a sec I can't really hit them all. Still I can see that if I practice drill mode daily I should be able to improve somewhat. Also I'm loving the beginners mode in 5th mix, it's just about my current level. I can do all the 1 stars in it and about half of the 2 stars, though none of the 3 stars yet. I think being able to finish all the songs in beginner mode will be my goal for the next 3-4 months. If I can do that I think I'll have gotten used to 7 key enough to start on light 7.

 

[Tain]

Bebpo: How much of Beginner's did you play on 8th?

Tangent: Is anyone getting the BIG 9th Style box with the obnoxious amount of extras?

Hells no. I can't justify spending that much for, well, a keychain and some other crap.

That said, I'm glad to see that I'll actually have the money for 9th on release. I was worried for a bit.

...And they'll probably end up announcing 10th about a week after 9th releases.

 

[dog$]

Tangent: Is anyone getting the BIG 9th Style box with the obnoxious amount of extras?

*raises hand*
I don't buy many games (2004 total = 9), and about 18 months ago PS2 7th Style seemed like a pipe dream. This is probably the most I can personally do to ensure that at least 10th comes out. My order's with Play-Asia, because I care the least about the poster (which they still won't list as one of the items in the set, for some reason).

e: Oh and with the exception of lower world, it seems like the included v-rare disc is remixing the worst songs of 9th Style; this should be a good thing though, since songs like Lion Suki and Silivia Drive need all the help they can get. Silvia Drive - lyrics = 100% improvement.

 

[Bebpo]

Bebpo: How much of Beginner's did you play on 8th?

Well I only gave it one try and I could do all the 1 star songs, but none of the 2 star songs. 5th seems a lot closer to a starting level which is where I want to be.

One of my problems is that I haven't gotten my hands adjusted to the controller again after all these years. I keep missing buttons and hitting the plastic instead since I'm looking at the screen.

Also what's the best setup for 2 hands on 7 keys? I've been doing like this:

L-HAND - bottom left 2 keys, upper left key
R-HAND - bottom right keys, upper right 2 keys

But I get totally thrown off balance when I need to scratch. My hands and fingers are really short so I can't scratch with my right hand while pressing buttons. So if the command is the upper right 2 keys + scratch I have to move my right hand to the scratch and then move my left hand to where my right hand used to be. This is very disorientating and really screws me up. With auto-turntable I do a lot better, but that's no fun so I keep auto-turntable off.

Oh and just out of curiousity was 1st & 2nd style ever released on a console? Never seen below 3rd style.

 

[Tain]

Nah, no home ports of the first two styles. 3rd has most of the songs from the first two styles, save for some ancient 5-key stuff I'd still like to see, like Ska a go go, and a couple of liscensed songs.

I never really assigned my fingers. Later on, you'll basically just have to come up with hand formations for countless kinds of situations, and trying to keep fingers in certain places will just mess you up.

 

[hanzo]

8th mix has some tough songs. I picked up 7th and 8th. Both games are fun, but I might seek out 3rd-6th mix to practice. Fun game, hard learning curve.

 

[Bebpo]

If anyone has 5th style can you load up the game and check out drill mode - basics - step 10 - hardest. I'm pretty stuck on this and was wondering if I could get some tips. The BPM just goes to fast for me :\ I can go fine for about the first 10-15 inputs but around halfway I just totally break down and miss everything from then on.

Is there some point when learning beatmania that your hands + reflexes adapt to the commands and when you see one on screen your hand instantly presses the correct keys? How many weeks/months/years does it take to get to that point?

 

[dog$]

OK, you're talking about Remember You, 52 notes, right?

For two-hands it's easier to just keep key5 riding the eighths through the phrase; once you get that you only have snare hits on beats 2 & 4 and bass on 1 and the two eighths of "&2 and 3" (maybe it'll help to anunciate "1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &" while you're hitting the eighth-note string that runs through the whole set). The only things you have going are the bass & snare parts with a string of eighths; if you can get the first part (the first two measures) the second is exactly the same.

Try playing some slowass songs on HiSpeed 3 or 4 (Wargame, Girigiri Daddy, Be In My Paradice (UGH), basically *<100bpm) and come back to this; Hi1 anything will seem slow as hell. I just booted this up and tried it, my first play was like 9/43/0/0/0 :lol it took a few more tries to get 34/18/0/0/0.