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Raw footage of Fallujah action

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pnjtony

Member
Interesting, but here's what I see.

First I would have liked to see more Iraqi military going into that city instead of our guys.

Secondly, In like 15-20 years we're going to be attacked by Iraq and we're not going to know why or how and it'll be Afghanistan all over again. We do this shit to ourselves. We train em and then eventually they turn on us. You just shouldn't train other people's military.
 
Forsete

Forsete

Member
Interesting.

My brother said he saw a video of a Bradley being blown to bits on CNN, also what looked to be a humvee.
 
Phoenix

Phoenix

Member
Socreges said:
Yeah, need more!

I can just imagine what the footage would be like if the insurgents had cameras. :lol
Click to expand...

They kinda do. There tends to be press embedded in close proxmity to insurgents (which is how we get those pictures of them firing at troops and such).
 
M

Meier

Member
Man, it's bad enough on someone's bandwith to get slashdotted.. Cox probably wants to kill Matt Drudge for linking to this. :lol :lol
 
F

Firest0rm

Member
pnjtony said:
Interesting, but here's what I see.

First I would have liked to see more Iraqi military going into that city instead of our guys.

Secondly, In like 15-20 years we're going to be attacked by Iraq and we're not going to know why or how and it'll be Afghanistan all over again. We do this shit to ourselves. We train em and then eventually they turn on us. You just shouldn't train other people's military.
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That will never happen. The reason why America was attacked by "Al-Qaeda" NOT Afghanistan was because America supported the extremists to indirectly fight off the Russians. The US isn't supporting extremists in Iraq, and the people their fighting right now are the ba'ath loyalists.
 
R

RiZ III

Member
Im not siding with these guys. It was a general statement about spreading democracy through such intense violence and aggression. I was talking about the war itself, not this fallujah attack in specific.
 
Phoenix

Phoenix

Member
pnjtony said:
Interesting, but here's what I see.

First I would have liked to see more Iraqi military going into that city instead of our guys.

Secondly, In like 15-20 years we're going to be attacked by Iraq and we're not going to know why or how and it'll be Afghanistan all over again. We do this shit to ourselves. We train em and then eventually they turn on us. You just shouldn't train other people's military.
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You want to see their military doing the job, but you don't want to train them. SOrry, but that doesn't make sense.
 
D

DeEJaYMiND

Member
I don’t know for you guys but in Portugal they have showed this same images in national TV news this past days when they talk about the fights in Falluja...

They even showed another clip where you see about 20 marines trying to kill a single guy that is barricaded in a house. They hounded him first and them kill him.... you can even listen to a marine saying "He is gone". Them they show a bunch of guns and ammo and a guy killed in a corner...
 
E

Eric-GCA

Banned
The footage definately has the feel of a videogame, since you never see any of the enemies being killed.

Crazy stuff indeed. I'm annoyed that more isn't shown on the US broadcasts.
 
Phoenix

Phoenix

Member
Oh you've missed some of the GOOD stuff.... line charges fired into neighborhood area, 500 lb bombs dropped behind walls, and just completely nutty stuff from people getting photos of insurgents (TIME has good photos of this).

03.jpg

08.jpg
 
Phoenix

Phoenix

Member
I just have to say that by the time the fight for Falluja is over, there won't be a whole lot of city that isn't battle ravaged or blown to all hell, or full of mines, etc. It will be a while after the city is declared safe before people will be able to actually return.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
The US isn't supporting extremists in Iraq, and the people their fighting right now are the ba'ath loyalists.
Click to expand...

The people leading the fight might indeed be ba'athist elements from Saddam's old regime. However, there's also plenty of people left impoverished and in destitution because of the failure of the Bremer/Bush regime to properly manage post-war Iraq, where the free market absolutism failed the common people of Iraq spectacularly. There are also people incensed by the US puppet interim government and repeated acts of desecration of holy sites, ranging from the casual mosque to the holy city of Najaf.

You can't pin this insurgency on just ba'athists. It's an uprising that would not have occured with the ferocity and pervasiveness if we had managed to quickly implement security and had a realistic plan for reconstruction in place. It would have still been there, but it would not have taken over large swaths of the country like it has now.

Regarding the footage, it appears that Fallujah will not be a habitable place for a long time to come. Even if people do move back in, the cleanup operation and the restoration of basic sanitation and utlities will take a very long time-and is unlikely to get very far with an insurgency that is only controlled as long as the US armed forces are present in large force.

It appears that while we've been working on Fallujah with such ferocity, other exisitng problem spots such as Mosul gets worse. Are we going to deal with those problem spots in the same way? How much of this country do we have to devastate in order to liberate it?

Iraq is just FUBAR, in the most literal of senses. There's no way to hold a reasonable election that would form a coalition government that would reprsent Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds alike and do so in a manner that would represent all of the groups equitably without introdcuting a kind of federalism that would make the country's neighbors very uneasy. There's a good risk of the tyranny of the majority in the elected legislative house. There's the huge influence of a few powerful clerics with large amounts of public power. Finally, there's a massive security problem that is probably beyond recovery at this point.

No way out folks. People might berate me for my nihilism on this one, but there's no way to win this one without turning our gameplan completely around.
 
K

Kettch

Member
I just have to say that by the time the fight for Falluja is over, there won't be a whole lot of city that isn't battle ravaged or blown to all hell, or full of mines, etc. It will be a while after the city is declared safe before people will be able to actually return.
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Return? Many aren't allowed to leave.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=246764

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq Nov 12, 2004 — Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.S. troops following orders to allow only women, children and the elderly to leave.
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As it believes many of Fallujah's men are guerrilla fighters, it has instructed U.S. troops to turn back all males aged 15 to 55.

"We assume they'll go home and just wait out the storm or find a place that's safe," one 1st Cavalry Division officer, who declined to be named, said Thursday.
Click to expand...
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Pellham said:
It amazes me how people will actually side with those people who are beheading innocents and posting videos of it.
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Yes, cause that's what he did right there ay dumbass.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
"We assume they'll go home and just wait out the storm or find a place that's safe," one 1st Cavalry Division officer, who declined to be named, said Thursday.
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Of course, when you're shelling homes and houses with inaccurate munitions and peppering them with assualt rifle fire, there are plenty of safe places.

Those that aren't injured from combat-related injuries could very well succumb to starvation or disease. This is, of course, collective punishment of a population and a violation of Geneva convention, but hell, we don't follow those quaint little rules anymore anyway.
 
M

miyuru

Member
The world is so fucked up today, it's good to be in Canada though.

Honestly, I forget why there even is a war, can't people just get along?

I blame religion, religion is the devil.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Here's some pictures from Fallujah that won't be seen on TV. 56K no-no, be prepared to lose your lunch.

Fallujah Picutres

I blame religion, religion is the devil.
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Religion is fine. People of faith have done great things over the span of millennia for our civilization. The problem is that they have also done horrific things as well, but rarely have those been in the pursuit of true faith. Those things were perpetrated using faith as a smokescreen for a different agenda, but get lumped in as 'religion destroying man'.
 
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