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Realistically, will Nintendo fall any further?

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puck1337

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Edit: The short answer is no.

Putting aside all of the usual bickering over HD, online/no-line, DS v.s. PSP, etc., does anyone else think that Nintendo has already reached their logical bottom? I honestly don't see how Nintendo can fare any worse than they have during this generation of hardware, where they've been left with only their most core supporters.

In previous generations, Nintendo would launch a new system with some obvious advantage over its competitors. That's not to say that Nintendo's consoles were superior to their competition, but a consumer could at least say "Nintendo's system does *this* - the other guys don't". The Cube never had that benefit. From the beginning, any talk about capability centered around what it did badly, what it didn't do at all, and worse, what it looked like.

Even if Nintendo doesn't add HD capability to Revolution and they don't try to compete in computational power, the system will have some positive differentiators from the competition. That's all but ensured by the retro download network, Revolution's physical design, and whatever control hook/gimmick they come up with. The console will have an identity that's based at least partially on what's good AND different about it, instead of just the negative.

And that brings me to my next point. Nintendo has done a horrible job of providing standout software for their home console. The games haven't been bad; they just don't fit in enough to dominate existing genres, but at the same time, they aren't different enough to be recognized by a consumer as being unique. You can see this with almost every big Nintendo-published title. They're viewed as weird because they straddle the line between starched-collar orthodox and daringly original.

Wind Waker is an extreme example of this. Ignore the distant past and 'old spirit' of the series - Wind Waker's visuals weren't what most gamers expected from the Zelda series. It was basically the same game that they had always played, but the visuals were a turn off and the gameplay wasn't different enough to force the naysayers to give it a chance. There's no doubt that the game hurt GCN's prospects from a very early stage.

Metroid Prime is another example that's hard to ignore - the gameplay is completely different from what people are used to for games with Metroid Prime's orthodox visuals. People want multiplayer from their FPSes, they want free look, and they want all of the other trappings of FPS titles. Metroid Prime completely shits on tradition, and gives gamers what a lot of them don't want.

A lot of people think that Nintendo bears no blame for gamers' reactions to these titles, but they do. The unwashed masses should understand Nintendo's delicate genius, and all of that crap. Judged on their own, these games may be masterpieces. I certainly think that they are. But for Nintendo to release these games without alternatives that are more orthodox is to completely turn their back on a market that wants to buy Nintendo's software.

There wasn't a lot preventing Nintendo from developing Twilight Princess instead of TWW and making a new cel-shaded adventure series in parallel. The Zelda title would have sold better, and the new IP would have had a chance at drawing in new gamers and trying out alternative play mechanics. Similarly, had Nintendo found a way to provide a true superstar FPS, Metroid Prime's design decisions wouldn't have been nearly as controversial. There would have been something else to compare to Halo, and Metroid Prime could have been recognized for what it is instead of what it isn't.

I think that Nintendo is starting to understand that gamers' expectations should be met. They're taking Mario Kart and Animal Crossing and replacing ham-fisted attempts at multiplayer play with true online gaming. Twilight Princess fixes the areas where Wind Waker failed - the visuals are what people naturally expect from Zelda games, and the horseback riding, sword play, and wolf mechanics will be exciting enough to attract those who are looking for a change.

At the same time, their experiments are becoming more and more distant from established genres. These games aren't "weird" versions of mass market games, like Pikmin was. Nintendogs, regardless of what's available on other systems, is not the kind of software that people are experienced with. The same goes for Brain Training, Electroplankton, and so on. If these experiments are successful, Nintendo immediately becomes the market leader in a new genre, and can dictate the direction that they want that genre to move in. Doing that is probably a lot easier and potentially more profitable than making oddball versions of existing titles. Most importantly, it provides us with games that we might just enjoy on a very pure level. Think about how you felt the first time you played a defining game in a new genre. That can't happen without experimentation.

All in all, I still have doubts, but I think that Nintendo stands to do very well with Revolution. They might not compete on the same level as MS and Sony, but they aren't going to disappear. And for the first time since before the N64, I don't feel like I know what to expect. That can only be a good thing.
 
It's not doom and gloom per se, the bottom paragraph is very positive, I'm just left asking myself "what's the point?"
 
falling isnt exactly the term i'd use...Nintendo's more or less just lying there looking at the clouds above the sky and imagining a world where HD didn't exist
 
monchi-kun said:
falling isnt exactly the term i'd use...Nintendo's more or less just lying there looking at the clouds above the sky and imagining a world where HD didn't exist
HDTV doesn't enhance gameplay.

Gimmicks and dual screens do! :)
 
coffee.jpg
 
As in, can the Revolution have a smaller installed user base than the Gamecube?

Yes, in fact it's very likely. There are many people who have sworn off ever buying another Nintendo system ever again because the GC disappointed them so much. The same thing also happened with the N64.

Nintendo will always have their small, dedicated fanbase. But that fanbase continues to shrink with each new generation.
 
AB 101 said:
Wow, another gloom and doom Nintendo thread.

Months since I have seen one of these.

<rolleyes>
Read it. It isn't doom and gloom. What I'm proposing is that things are already starting to get better.
 
monchi-kun said:
falling isnt exactly the term i'd use...Nintendo's more or less just lying there looking at the clouds above the sky and imagining a world where HD didn't exist
Perrin: Did you see that cloud?! It looked like a Panasonic HDTV playing Super Smash Bros Melee Online in 720p!
Iwata: You are to remain three steps behind me... at all times!
Perrin: But we're not wal--
Iwata: Even in conversation! *Sigh* You have dishonored me!
 
SonicMegaDrive said:
As in, can the Revolution have a smaller installed user base than the Gamecube?

Yes, in fact it's very likely. There are many people who have sworn off ever buying another Nintendo system ever again because the GC disappointed them so much. The same thing also happened with the N64.

Nintendo will always have their small, dedicated fanbase. But that fanbase continues to shrink with each new generation.
That's the most retarded thing ever. Ever.

Really, what are they going to do if (...if) the Revolution turns out to be a real dream come true? "OMG WAY TOO COOL!!!!! OMG *DROOL* omg.. omg" and then "Oh. Shit. I swore I would never buy a Nintendo console again! NOOOOOO."
 
jimbo said:
SEGA

There's always a worse and there's always a better.
Sega didn't have the kind of enduring franchises that Nintendo has. I'm not talking about quality here. Nintendo just has loads of high selling franchises, that if done to gamers' expectations, will continue to sell large volumes of copies. Outside of Sonic and VF, Sega has never really had that.
 
You guys have to read his actual post, not just the first couple lines.

I agree Puck, it does look like its getting better; specially the DS lineup.
 
Ruzbeh said:
That's the most retarded thing ever. Ever.

Really, what are they going to do if (...if) the Revolution turns out to be a real dream come true? "OMG WAY TOO COOL!!!!! OMG *DROOL* omg.. omg" and then "Oh. Shit. I swore I would never buy a Nintendo console again! NOOOOOO."

I'm not sure how that statement is 'retarded' as I have spoken personally with dozens of people who have said this. I'm just reciting hearsay.

I'm a Nintendo fan. In my perfect world, Nintendo would be the market leader, and all the 3rd parties would flock to Nintendo's console, just like the old NES and SNES days.

However, Nintendo's position seems to be that they just won't cater to the same market that Sony and Xbox are able to attract. And Nintendo seems perfectly fine with this, so long as they continue to run a successful business. Which they do, and will continue to do.

Nintendo's new console might have enough new ideas and innovation to attract more of those 'lost' consumers. But more than likely, people are going to flock to the system that has the best 3rd party support and the 'edgy' games that people hear about from their friends or on MTV.
 
Considering how wrong everyone got the DS, I won't be surprised if they read Revolution entirely wrong as well.

Start saving quotes.
 
Deku said:
Considering how wrong everyone got the DS, I won't be surprised if they read Revolution entirely wrong as well.

Start saving quotes.

The distinction? Nintendo owned the handheld market going into the DS. Can the same be said of the gamecube?
 
Having faith in Nintendo eventually getting it right is like closing your eyes and walking across glass. Its not worth it,unless you love pain.
 
akascream said:
The distinction? Nintendo owned the handheld market going into the DS. Can the same be said of the gamecube?

Not really. DS isn't Game Boy, and had it been a Game Boy 2, it probably would have done even better. Granted backwards compatability with the GBA was a pretty strong move, but the DS didn't benefit all that much from the Game Boy's strength in the area.

BuddyC said:
Or better yet, stop thinking what FanboyZ1987 says actually matters.

I don't really care what FanboyZ1987 thinks matters, actually, given GAF's miserable history at predicting success and failure and generally towing the 'popular' line when it comes to so-called industry analysis, I don't have much faith in what the popular consesnsus is.

That said, saving quotes is always a nice way to rub it in after the fact since most people here will just as quickly sell their souls and pretend they didn't make certain claims with the benefit of hindsight. It's more for the entertainment value than anything.
 
They can. Some Nintendo zealots will still take pride that their company somehow makes a profit while waiting the next 9 month for something worthwhile to play.
 
Metroid Prime is another example that's hard to ignore - the gameplay is completely different from what people are used to for games with Metroid Prime's orthodox visuals. People want multiplayer from their FPSes, they want free look, and they want all of the other trappings of FPS titles. Metroid Prime completely shits on tradition, and gives gamers what a lot of them don't want.

If people don't like what Metroid Prime offers, then it's their failure as a gamer to recognize a good one. The fault does not lie within Nintendo. There, I said it.

The rest of your points were pretty valid.
 
Instigator said:
They can. Some Nintendo zealots will still take pride that their company somehow makes a profit while waiting the next 9 month for something worthwhile to play.

You just described the PSP. And Xbox 1.5
 
akascream said:
The distinction? Nintendo owned the handheld market going into the DS. Can the same be said of the gamecube?

Bingo. People keep comparing their handheld domain to the console when it doesn't work like that. Just like Sony's dominance in the console domain doesn't automatically mean they're going to have it in the handheld domain as we've seen. Nintendo's been fallen for years in the console world while they're still really big among handheld gamers. So its definetly not a valid comparison. They're in no way seen in the same way as a console developer as they're as a handheld developer.
 
The man in charge is a freaking lunatic... that is why they will fall further.

Iwata quotes...

"If people want to listen to music on the go, then they should purchase (an) iPod." 6/3/2004 - an Australian newspaper

"Customers do not want online games" - 5/7/2004 -a state of the industry speech to the Japan Economic Foundation

"It is our assumption that it is the software that provides the sensational experiences, and that [the games] are the only reason to buy the hardware," - Gamespy Interview

"People are tired of games that are complicated and full of graphics but offer little else." - Iwata

My personal favorite...

"We can't be optimistic about the game market. No matter what great product you come up with, people get bored. I feel like a chef cooking for a king who's full."
- Satoru Iwata
president of Nintendo Co. Ltd., June 7, 2002
 
nintendo will once again revolutionize the way how we play games, like they did with the N64 controller, and we'll have our Marios, Metroids, and Zelda games. What's to complain?
 
I don't think you could fall further than having a purple console. WTF were u thinking Nintendo, did u want Europe to laugh at you?
 
Deku said:
That said, saving quotes is always a nice way to rub it in after the fact since most people here will just as quickly sell their souls and pretend they didn't make certain claims with the benefit of hindsight. It's more for the entertainment value than anything.

Haha, you're saving quotes for the inevitability that Revolution might beat PS3 or Xbox360 from a marketshare perspective?

Take a step back and snort a line of coke or something, man. It's the internet.*







*(Don't bother saving em', SEARCH finds the quotes just as easily when the time comes! ProTip!)
 
jedimike said:
The man in charge is a freaking lunatic... that is why they will fall further.

Iwata quotes...

"If people want to listen to music on the go, then they should purchase (an) iPod." 6/3/2004 - an Australian newspaper

"Customers do not want online games" - 5/7/2004 -a state of the industry speech to the Japan Economic Foundation

"It is our assumption that it is the software that provides the sensational experiences, and that [the games] are the only reason to buy the hardware," - Gamespy Interview

"People are tired of games that are complicated and full of graphics but offer little else." - Iwata

My personal favorite...

"We can't be optimistic about the game market. No matter what great product you come up with, people get bored. I feel like a chef cooking for a king who's full."
- Satoru Iwata
president of Nintendo Co. Ltd., June 7, 2002
:lol Fair point.
 
If the Revolution really is noticably weaker or the controller doesn't usher in a "paradigm shift ", then yes, they can fall even further.
 
Iwata said:
We can't be optimistic about the game market. No matter what great product you come up with, people get bored. I feel like a chef cooking for a king who's full.

Or in this case, the king is getting all of his food from a better, more reliable chef.

Rediculous statement to make, by the way. I hadn't seen that before.
 
Nintendo will continue to falter because they do not listen to the consumer demand and to the overall market. They've done nothing to prove they're aggressive enough to win back any mindshare they've lost to the competition the past 2 generations. They'll just continue to carve away at their own fanbase until they've become completely niche.
 
SonicMegaDrive said:
As in, can the Revolution have a smaller installed user base than the Gamecube?

Yes, in fact it's very likely. There are many people who have sworn off ever buying another Nintendo system ever again because the GC disappointed them so much. The same thing also happened with the N64.

Nintendo will always have their small, dedicated fanbase. But that fanbase continues to shrink with each new generation.

Unless you start hating their franchise titles I just don't see how they are chasing their dedicated fanbase away. Their dwindling userbase is purely from gamers who were not raised on Nintendo's key franchises and don't give two shits. Myself, I'd support them no matter what because I have to have my Nintendo game fix.
 
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