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[ThongyDonk]

The Rev is gonna be backwards compatible with the GC games.

Firstly don't GC games get read backwards by the GC (Or am i being thick?)
Also won't the rev then also need to be able to work this way too?

i ask because it looks like the rev will also not be BR/HD-DVD, so will Nintendo be able to create a proprietary media disc, with the capacity needed next gen? We all know its one of the thorns in the GC's side,

Your help would be appreciated!!

 

[Nightbringer]

Formats supported by Nintendo Revolution.

DVD Video.
HD-GOD (HD-DVD 8cm diameter)
HD-GOD10 (HD-DVD 10cm diameter)
GOD.

This is speculation by me, of course.

 

[soundwave05]

Nintendo could still use regular DVD discs, Blu-Ray discs, or HD-DVD discs and maintain GCN backwards compatibility.

What they end up choosing is anyone's guess though. I think it'll probably be higher capacity propietary mini-discs again, or HD-GOD if you wish.

 

[ThongyDonk]

How can one laser read 2 different types of media, especially if the GC discs are read in such a way??

 

[soundwave05]

How can one laser read 2 different types of media, especially if the GC discs are read in such a way??

The Panasonic Q has been doing it for three years now. I'm not sure if that's a single-laser design though.

 

[ThongyDonk]

True. But they are similar media, Doesn't HD/BR use a different laser type?

 

[DDayton]

I'm not sure why people seem to be so afraid of "proprietary media" -- they seem to be confusing disk capacity and pricing with Nintendo's format for the disk.

 

[soundwave05]

HD-DVD I believe still uses a laser similar to regular DVD players.

Blu-Ray uses a new, blue laser.

 

[aphasias]

dreamcast games were read the same way (starting from the outside of the disc), but the system was capable of reading regular cds which would obviously read starting from the inside. i doubt theres much needed to make a system read in two different directions.

 

[soundwave05]

The GameCube definitely does not use a blue laser.

Those are very pricey even today, let alone for a system released four years ago.

 

[ThirdEye]

HD-DVD I believe still uses a laser similar to regular DVD players.

No. HD-DVD uses a blue laser too.

IMO Nintendo will adopt a proprietarily-protected mini Blu-ray disc or even a regular size as Matsushita pushes Blu-ray along with Sony.

 

[Romaji]

I'm fairly sure the backwards spin is a myth.

 

[Cold-Steel]

Nintendo will definitely go the route of proprietary media.

Nintendo will either expand on the GOD format (since it is their own proprietary media) or opt to collaborate with Panasonic on some Blu-Ray variant. I highly doubt Revolution will be capable of DVD playback or use any form of HD-DVD.

Not going to happen folks.

 

[Neo_ZX]

Jeez when will they learn. If they're happy to play 3rd fiddle again I guess that's their choice.

 

[soundwave05]

The only thing I could see maybe changing their mind on movie playback would be the fact that they're getting into the movie business themselves via Nintendo Animation.

But still I'm guessing a propietary solution that maybe stores 3-4x more than GODs.

 

[gofreak]

Nintendo will either expand on the GOD format (since it is their own proprietary media) or opt to collaborate with Panasonic on some Blu-Ray variant.

The Bluray companies are making a 8cm disc - 15GB per layer, 30GB dual layer. That'd be great (well, if we have to go the "proprietary" route, at least). Not sure if it'll be ready and/or cheap enough by the time Rev needs to be released though.

 

[ManaByte]

How can one laser read 2 different types of media, especially if the GC discs are read in such a way??

The PS2 uses a single laser to read both CD and DVD. Before the PS2, DVD players used two lasers; one for DVD and another for CD.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Whatever media format they end up going with, I definitely think they should include DVD playback this time around. It's just an extra feature that people will like.

 

[WordAssassin]

Nintendo will definitely go the route of proprietary media.

Nintendo will either expand on the GOD format (since it is their own proprietary media) or opt to collaborate with Panasonic on some Blu-Ray variant. I highly doubt Revolution will be capable of DVD playback or use any form of HD-DVD.

Not going to happen folks.

Nintendo is going into the movie business. Why would they create a machine that couldn't play their own movies?

 

[gofreak]

Nintendo is going into the movie business. Why would they create a machine that couldn't play their own movies?

This is an interesting argument on the pro "standard movie format for Rev" camp, and one I'd like to subscribe to. I'd love to think of Yamauchi stomping into Nintendo HQ and demanding Rev be able to play movies because of his pet projects, and I'm sure some in Nintendo would be secretly willing to take any excuse to back themselves out of the "games only hardware" corner, and run with it. We'll have to wait and see...

...without going for DVD or Blu-ray, they could always release their own movies on Rev's disc format and have them be playable on Rev

I'd err on the side of caution now. A lot of people thought GC would play DVDs, Nintendo even announced they'd be using DVD technology (which ended up being mini-DVD technology, so they weren't incorrect, but it gave some people the wrong impression ).

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah I was thinking Nintendo might be crazy enough to release their own movies on the Revolution disc format and then maybe throw in some interactive mini-game functions.

 

[acidviper]

Panasonic made a GC/DVD player. I'm pretty sure if they can make the Q, they can make others.

 

[Blabala]

Men you can NOW play GC-games with a typical DVD (without the GC case) or a mini-DVD and you don't need a chip for doing it, just the PSO bug.

I don't think the GOD's are read backwards. That was dreamcast.

 

[xexex]

Nintendo should be smart and use a custom enhanced full-sized version of Blu-Ray, working with Matsushita.

 

[xavean1]

How would doing that make them smart? Their choice of mini-DVD with the data padded on the outer edge of the disc has made them virtually unpiratable. You cannot buy one piece of working GameCube pirated software that doesn't at least require a mod chip.

 

[Enigma]

It would make them smart because it would put them on the same boat as Sony... a great solution for people looking for HD movies, but unwilling to pay the huge standalone price. And with both of them offering HD playback, it'd really make the Xenon look like a shitty deal (Price drop or not.)

I don't see why Panasonic would wanna eat those costs to make it feasable, however, With Sony, they have a vested interest in making sure that format succeeds (And will make the money back on the backend). If Panasonic cut them a sweet deal, how would they ever really recupperate all the money back?

 

[jarrod]

I sort of doubt any blue laser solution is worth the cost to Nintendo for a 2006 console. More likely they go with some sort of custom GOD2 with Matsushitsa, maybe full size and dual layered to increase data storage. DVD playback should be expected too I think, Nintendo's been trying to distance themselves from the "game only" ethic these days.

Maybe had both their competitors gone with HD media next gen Nintendo would be "forced" to follow, but Microsoft's left the door open for them to cheap out. That extra cost would be better served going to increasing RAM or chip speeds anyway.

 

[cja]

I sort of doubt any blue laser solution is worth the cost to Nintendo for a 2006 console. More likely they go with some sort of custom GOD2 with Matsushitsa, maybe full size and dual layered to increase data storage.

So that'd be a standard DVD-9 with the GODs copy protection then!

DVD playback should be expected too I think, Nintendo's been trying to distance themselves from the "game only" ethic these days.

I don't see the point. DVD playback will be worth what, a $5 value in late '06? It'd cost more for Nintendo to license DVD-Video playback than the value the consumer perceives it as. Perhaps a DVD remote that unlocks DVD, just like Xbox. An SD card slot with MP3, MPEG4 & MPEG4 AVC playback along with photoviewer that'd be something worth having. The cost would be little more than the cost of an SD card reader and developing the software, literally pennies per unit.

Maybe had both their competitors gone with HD media next gen Nintendo would be "forced" to follow, but Microsoft's left the door open for them to cheap out. That extra cost would be better served going to increasing RAM or chip speeds anyway.

YES! Every dollar spent on the media is one less they're going to spend on the silicon. Microsoft have been clever and gone with a silicon heavy machine, not only does it emphasise pure grunt power but also it will mean cost of goods comes down rapidly, something they struggle with today with a HDD in the machine. If Sony make blu-ray standard (they have only said PS3 will support BR for the moment) it'll be they who struggle with costs and they who'll either after hike up prices or come out with a technically inferior machine.

 

[Enigma]

and they who'll either after hike up prices or come out with a technically inferior machine.

More like it'll be used to ensure BR prevails over a format it otherwise would have had zero chance against (HD-DVD) and will make up the money lost initially through the format succeeding.

 

[mrklaw]

it'll be they who struggle with costs

But then they will manufacture bluray drives, and have developed the technology, and have a majority interest in the patent pool etc. So you could argue they have more cost flexibility over time.

At the end of the day, its still a lightbulb on a little railway track - just smaller/more accurate. In a couple of years Bluray drives will probably cost no more than HD-DVD/DVD anyway.

 

[Zaptruder]

Why would discs need to be read backwards?

Just load crap on the inside parts of the disc so that the real data is on the outside, which maintains optimal transfer speeds anyway.


As for nintendo using propriety media...

well, they haven't benefited much from doing so for the last 2 generations... ever since CDs became a standard over catridges.

 

[cja]

More like it'll be used to ensure BR prevails over a format it otherwise would have had zero chance against (HD-DVD) and will make up the money lost initially through the format succeeding.

I agree that if blu-ray is as successful as DVD then the inclusion of Blu-ray in PS3 will be a huge boon for Sony. The problem with both HD-DVD and Blu-ray is the consumer needs a new TV to get the advantage from the format, something DVD and its inclusion in PS2 didn't have to overcome. There was a huge jump in technology from VCR to DVD, the gap in terms of time and technology is nowhere near as big going from DVD to Blu-ray.

But then they will manufacture bluray drives, and have developed the technology, and have a majority interest in the patent pool etc. So you could argue they have more cost flexibility over time.

At the end of the day, its still a lightbulb on a little railway track - just smaller/more accurate. In a couple of years Bluray drives will probably cost no more than HD-DVD/DVD anyway.

Sony Electronics aren't going to give SCEI the technology at cost. Blu-ray costs will come down dramatically but the technology at the moment is stuck in oversized boxes and costs four figure sums, DVD in 1999 was in a far more advanced state.

 

[psycho_snake]

The Bluray companies are making a 8cm disc - 15GB per layer, 30GB dual layer. That'd be great (well, if we have to go the "proprietary" route, at least). Not sure if it'll be ready and/or cheap enough by the time Rev needs to be released though.

I think they are going to stay with the GOD format and make it better, although this is very possible. If they did make this though, could the console still read GC games?

isnt it possible to have two lasers in one console, one that can read GC games and one that can read Blu-ray or HD DVD? I would really like to see Nintendo use Blu ray 8cm or 12cm instead of a proprietary format, but as long as I can play my games, I dont care

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Firstly don't GC games get read backwards by the GC (Or am i being thick?)

The GC spins the disk in same direction all others spin them, clockwise.

 

[Vallarfax]

I don't think we'll see the revolution playing DVD's simply because of what happened to the X-Box and PS2. Once you allow the programming to read a DVD disc movie, then mod-chips can be made to make the system think a burned game is actually a real game. Nintendo is lightyears ahead of microsoft and sony when it comes to anti-piracy. Think about it, what was the last reasonably priced nintendo pirating done? Weren't there devices that could back up carts and blank carts to copy them to?

 

[cja]

I think they are going to stay with the GOD format and make it better, although this is very possible. If they did make this though, could the console still read GC games?

isnt it possible to have two lasers in one console, one that can read GC games and one that can read Blu-ray or HD DVD? I would really like to see Nintendo use Blu ray 8cm or 12cm instead of a proprietary format, but as long as I can play my games, I dont care

Red & blue laser, along with infared for CD playback, is certainly possible (Blu-ray and HD-DVD wouldn't be backwards compatible with DVD otherwise!) but is currently very expensive.

The problem for Nintendo & Microsoft, if they were to go down the blue laser route, is their costs would be higher than those for Sony. Sony are world leaders in combining optical head technology that allows the reading of multiple wavelengths. Whereas every other consumer electronics company was having to put two separate optical heads in their DVD players Sony combined them into one for the PS2. Sony have again announced a single pick-up head for Blu-ray and its inclusion in PS3.

With Nintendo announcing backwards compatibility it means red laser in Revolution is a certainty. Given how Nintendo have been trying very hard to avoid Sony's strengths, see DS and the de-emphasis of semi-conductor technology, it'd be very surprising if they were to go with blu-ray. Historical precedent would also hints at the exclusion of blu-ray, the main reason the GOD drive is cheap for Nintendo is its exclusion of an infared laser diode that is necessary for CD playback. Nintendo would be at a competitive disadvantage if they went with Blu-ray.

 

[fse]

DVD playback was confirmed for Rev 2 years ago...

 

[God's Hand]

I kind of remember some kind of confirmation on DVD playback for the successor to GC, but that was a long time ago. Things change... but you never know.

 

[MegaByte]

Why would discs need to be read backwards?

Just load crap on the inside parts of the disc so that the real data is on the outside, which maintains optimal transfer speeds anyway.

This is basically what the GC discs do.

 

[jarrod]

So that'd be a standard DVD-9 with the GODs copy protection then!

Pretty much. BTW, I thought I remembered hearing GOD copy protection is actually pretty similar to what Matsushitsa helped develop for the Blue-Ray standard... this true?

I don't see the point. DVD playback will be worth what, a $5 value in late '06? It'd cost more for Nintendo to license DVD-Video playback than the value the consumer perceives it as. Perhaps a DVD remote that unlocks DVD, just like Xbox. An SD card slot with MP3, MPEG4 & MPEG4 AVC playback along with photoviewer that'd be something worth having. The cost would be little more than the cost of an SD card reader and developing the software, literally pennies per unit.

Well, offloading the cost to a peripheral would make some sense. At the end of the day it might not be much of a practical benefit to Nintendo directly but it's certainly a PR benefit to add to Nintendo's score card. They really can't afford to be seen as comparatively lacking in features, like GameCube was. It's worth the $5 fee imo.

I think an SD slot would be a good idea too though, but it's less likely as Nintendo prefers to reap propietray memory card sales. More likely we'll just see the SD card adapter again (with multimedia fuctions) if anything... I think a modular HDD or Flash Drive will be more likely though.

YES! Every dollar spent on the media is one less they're going to spend on the silicon. Microsoft have been clever and gone with a silicon heavy machine, not only does it emphasise pure grunt power but also it will mean cost of goods comes down rapidly, something they struggle with today with a HDD in the machine. If Sony make blu-ray standard (they have only said PS3 will support BR for the moment) it'll be they who struggle with costs and they who'll either after hike up prices or come out with a technically inferior machine.

Yep, I see Nintendo following Microsoft in this approach. Full DVD, modular HD, 512MB RAM, WiFi, high spec multicore CPU and custom effects/shader heavy GPU. The main difference should be in Nintendo's unique interface additions.