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[aravuus]

I'm just rambling for the most part since I'm so excited I finally found the RTwP light but I do have a question, so skip to the very end if you have fun CRPGs to recommend to me.


I recently got the GOTY version of DA: Inquisition to give it a second chance but found it incredibly boring, so I decided to check a let's play of it for shits and giggles. Found one with nice, calm commentary, someone who plays on nightmare (in case someone's curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwTTiKR3b9A&list=PL5dr1EHvfwpNbGW1MP6pRbymy68xtEHCf&index=1). Very relaxing to watch. He plays the battles almost exclusively in the "RTwP mode", and watching him overcome various challenges and cheese the shit out of some encounters was very entertaining and it seemed like he was having fun, and I get this feeling like.. I want to have that sort of fun too. DA:I's RTwP mode is cumbersome as fuck though, so what to do? Well, everyone loves Baldur's Gate 2 and even though I have finished it once before, it was a full on cheating run, so why not give it a proper go and actually PLAY it too, not just read it?

And I did, and I've been loving it for the last couple of days. For some reason I've always disliked the RTwP system. I dunno, not fun and it's just there in the way of the story. But I decided to persevere, and really pay attention to everything on this BG2 run, from stats and attributes to equipment and spells and so on.

And after a couple of hours "yeeah I dunno, I'll play a bit more I guess", something just kind of clicked and I started having fun. It wasn't very challenging - I'm playing on either normal or core difficulty, can't recall right now - but trying out all the spells and gear was fun. Then I started running into harder encounters and had to start considering character placement, buffs, debuffs, stuff like that, and I started having more and more fun. Now I'm absolutely stuck on a really hard battle in one of the houses in the Temple area, I've died like 10 times already, and I'm enjoying the SHIT out of it!

It's not JUST the battles, of course, that I find so much fun: character progression feels fucking great, every level up and piece of gear feels like a massive upgrade compared to the stuff I've gotten used to in JRPGs.

Funnily enough I've suddenly gone all the way to the other extreme and I've found myself even skipping some story stuff, just because I want to get to the next challenging fight. There's stuff I still dislike, like the UI and how hard to follow it can get at times, but holy shit does it feel good to finally beat a hard battle after multiple tries. Sort of like the satisfaction you get from the Souls games, but different.

So yeah, BG2 is tons of fun, and I really want that fucking Celestial Fury before I continue, so I guess I better go look for at least some gear with confusion protection. After that I might have to bump up the difficulty, cause I'm sure this is the hardest battle I'll come across for a while.



What after BG2, though? It's gonna be a while before I finish this game, but it's nice to plan what to play ahead. Currently planning on checking out the Icewind Dale games and Dragon Age Origins on a harder difficulty after this. What other CRPGs are there with battle systems and character progression/itemization systems that are generally considered good or great? Doesn't have to be strictly RTwP, I'll check out turn-based games too.

e: PS:T and the new Obsidian games are great, I agree, but I should've mentioned I'm not going to be playing them any time soon!

 

[Alrus]

Icewind Dale is great if you really really like the combat in Infinity Engine games. It's super light on story and honestly it gets a bit tedious by the end. Never finished the expansion because I got bored. Tried IWD 2 and couldn't get into it, new D&D rules compared to previous Infinity Engine games and I never got around to learn them again.

Planescape Torment has less emphasis on combat but it's an amazing game and you should absolutely play it if you have the chance.

Pillars of Eternity has a different set of rules but it still feels pretty close to the old IE games so try that too.

 

[Anno]

I would say Icewind Dale and Temple of Elemental Evil are the two from that time period to check out for a gameplay focus. More recently you definitely want to check out Divinity: Original Sin and the currently in early access D:OS 2 for brilliant turn based combat. Pillars of Eternity and now Tyranny are both RTwP games that I personally enjoy more than the older D&D systems, though opinion seems mixed on that.

 

[J Jizzle]

Who's in your party OP?

 

[aravuus]

I know the IWD games are very (VERY) light on story, but I do remember people here and there calling the combat some of the best/most fun CRPGs have to offer, which is why I've included them in the to-play list.

And I absolutely agree that PS:T is just amazing, but I JUST replayed it a couple of months ago so I won't be playing that one again for quite some time lol.

 

[FrontalMonk]

Congrats on getting RTwP to stick.

When it comes to the IE games, think of them like a sliding scale of Story<--->Combat. PS:T is all story, IWD is all combat, and BG finds itself somewhere in the middle.

Oh, and as far as suggestions go, it's hard not to recommend Pillars of Eternity.

 

[aravuus]

^ Thanks! I'm halfway through a Tyranny playthrough too so replaying the Obsidian games will have to wait until I've finished some of the games I haven't even played before, but I'm definitely checking PoE out on a harder difficulty too.

I would say Icewind Dale and Temple of Elemental Evil are the two from that time period to check out for a gameplay focus. More recently you definitely want to check out Divinity: Original Sin and the currently in early access D:OS 2 for brilliant turn based combat. Pillars of Eternity and now Tyranny are both RTwP games that I personally enjoy more than the older D&D systems, though opinion seems mixed on that.

I actually noticed I have Temple of Elemental Evil on my GOG account, so definitely checking that one out too. Thanks!

Who's in your party OP?

Currently rolling with Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshimo, Viconia and Edwin. Haven't given my party composition much thought to be honest, I just picked characters I liked. Hopefully the tweak patch worked and people with clashing alignments won't start leaving my party, cause I really like both Jaheira and Viconia lol.

e: and Edwin. He's pretty much essential currently, haste alone is too good for me to lose him.

 

[Farks!]

Planescape: Torment if you want to experience the video game story of a lifetime. Rather light on combat and tons of reading, but it's so worth it.

 

[xealo]

Suppose this is more advice for secondary playthroughs than your first ones, but id recommend the Sword Coast Stratagems mod to spice up the difficulty if you ever start to feel it is too easy. It enhances the gameplay not by HP bloat or anything of the sort, but by making the AI smarter.

 

[trw]

While Icewind Dale seems to be the best recommendation due to it being light on story and heavy on combat I would also strongly recommend to try Planescape Torment. While it's the opposite - light on combat and heavy on story - it's for me still the best not just crpg but game of all time.

I would also recommend Neverwinter Nights 2. The original game is good but not great but the expansion is fantastic and a gigantic step up in quality.

There's also the new games from Obsidian, Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny. Both great games with good rtwp systems.

 

[aravuus]

Suppose this is more advice for secondary playthroughs than your first ones, but id recommend the Sword Coast Stratagems mod to spice up the difficulty if you ever start to feel it is too easy. It enhances the gameplay not by HP bloat or anything of the sort, but by making the AI smarter.

Oohh, read the description and it sounds pretty damn amazing! Will absolutely check it out when the time comes to replay BG2 again, thanks a lot for the suggestion!

Planescape: Torment if you want to experience the video game story of a lifetime. Rather light on combat and tons of reading, but it's so worth it.

While Icewind Dale seems to be the best recommendation due to it being light on story and heavy on combat I would also strongly recommend to try Planescape Torment. While it's the opposite - light on combat and heavy on story - it's for me still the best not just crpg but game of all time.

I would also recommend Neverwinter Nights 2. The original game is good but not great but the expansion is fantastic and a gigantic step up in quality.

There's also the new games from Obsidian, Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny. Both great games with good rtwp systems.

Ah sorry, I should've mentioned I've already played through PS:T multiple times and that I'm kind of in the middle of a Tyranny playthrough too already. But thank you in any case!

 

[LurkerPrime]

In order of recommendation:

• Tyranny's been really good so far in terms of RTwP combat. Good progression and balance. Plus the rest of the game is fantastic. (Note that I'm only halfway through right now, though.)
  
• Neverwinter Nights 2 with some fixes is also good, although you need to suffer through the original campaign to get to the fantastic Mask of the Betrayer expansion. Storm of Zehir is probably fun too, but I've never really played it. (Skip NWN1)
  
• KotOR1 and KotOR2 are highly worth playing, although their combat engines are rather primitive. For KotOR2, install the Sith Lords Content Resoted mod to play it as its best.
  
• Baldur's Gate 1 is a good time, though it's not as much fun as Baldur's Gate 2.
  
• Pillars of Eternity, which is a variation of Tyranny's combat engine. Not as polished as Tyranny, but there's a lot more combat to be had, as well as more variation in terms of party composition.
• Dragon Age Origins (2 and Inquisition have fundamentally broken combat, so avoid them.) the combat isn't great, but serviceable. The titular Origins and voiceless protagonist give it a lot more flexibility than its sequels, which makes it a more interesting game overall.

Now a dark horse recommendation: the Total War series, strategy wargames where you control entire armies on a battlefield with RTwP mechanics, while managing an empire in a turn-based overworld. Total War: Warhammer is the one to play here; it has the most RPG mechanics of any games in the series, though be warned it is very much a strategy game rather than any kind of RPG.


I know you've already dismissed some of these, but I figured I'd put the whole thing up for anyone wondering.

 

[aravuus]

Now a dark horse recommendation: the Total War series, strategy wargames where you control entire armies on a battlefield with RTwP mechanics, while managing an empire in a turn-based overworld. Total War: Warhammer is the one to play here; it has the most RPG mechanics of any games in the series, though be warned it is very much a strategy game rather than any kind of RPG.

That's a very interesting recommendation! Age of Empires was one of the seminal video games of my childhood so I've always enjoyed strategy games, but somehow I've never paid much attention to the Total War games despite seeing some awesome videos of them every now and then.

 

[friz898]

I tried to get into BG2 right after 60 hours of BG1 and the expansions.

I tried 3 different classes, I just couldnt get into it. I suspected maybe BG temp-burnout.

Willing to try again, but I no longer game at my desk, I now comfy-couch game and the text/dialog I imagine is as bad as reading an MMO that doesn't have Upscale UI.


.....so that's my long way of asking, do you guys think I should try BG2 EE on my Shield Tablet? Or should I do it on Steam, and you guys will let me know if it's Comfy-couch doable? (I haven't actually installed and tried the game since desk-gaming 2 years ago)

 

[Mupod]

Currently rolling with Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshimo, Viconia and Edwin. Haven't given my party composition much thought to be honest, I just picked characters I liked. Hopefully the tweak patch worked and people with clashing alignments won't start leaving my party, cause I really like both Jaheira and Viconia lol.

e: and Edwin. He's pretty much essential currently, haste alone is too good for me to lose him.

That's how I play BG2 myself, I just pick who I like. I recommend giving Jan Jansen (mage/thief) a try for his interactions with Minsc. He's not a pure thief like Yoshimo but I've played through vanilla BG2 plenty of times and he was always good enough.

 

[aravuus]

.....so that's my long way of asking, do you guys think I should try BG2 EE on my Shield Tablet?

I'm hardly the best one to give an answer to this, but I don't see why not! Aside from obviously missing a couple of nice to have hot keys/shortcuts, BG2 does feel like it'd be a great fit for a tablet.

That's how I play BG2 myself, I just pick who I like. I recommend giving Jan Jansen (mage/thief) a try for his interactions with Minsc. He's not a pure thief like Yoshimo but I've played through vanilla BG2 plenty of times and he was always good enough.

Mage/thief sounds good, I'll definitely keep an eye out for him. I'd say Yoshi is the most disposable of my current party, it's not like I dislike him, but honestly the real reason I'm keeping him around is just to take care of locks and traps. His interactions with Edwin have been hilarious, though.

 

[Com Truise]

Icewind Dale II is secretly one of the best games in the genre. Best combat and a surprisingly decent story.

 

[aravuus]

Icewind Dale II is secretly one of the best games in the genre. Best combat and a surprisingly decent story.

How's IWD 1, should I play it? Does my party carry over to the sequel from the first game or are they both completely their own thing? In case IWD2 isn't a direct sequel and nothing carries over, I suppose I should just play the better one of the two, which I assume is the sequel.

 

[Com Truise]

How's IWD 1, should I play it? Does my party carry over to the sequel from the first game or are they both completely their own thing? In case IWD2 isn't a direct sequel and nothing carries over, I suppose I should just play the better one of the two, which I assume is the sequel.

They are standalone stories, nothing carries over. Icewind Dale is good, but if you want to avoid burnout and just play an awesome RPG focused on combat it's got to be IWD II.

 

[Brandon F]

Replayed the entirety of Icewind Dale 1 last summer and that game still holds up incredibly well.

Compared to Baldurs Gate, I appreciated the larger variety of combat content. Every new location you visit delves deeper into the monster manual and pits your party against new threats, constantly. You rarely get repeat encounters from dungeon to dungeon. It's a straightforward journey with almost no real player agency in terms of narrative or progression design, but you also aren't floundering away battling the same low-level enemy fodder during exploration. Upgrades are doled out pretty regularly and since it is a straightforward dungeon crawl across the land, it feels natural.

Highly recommended, and the music is still some of the best in gaming.

Oh and Pillars of Eternity is worth a look as well. The half-speed option during real-time combat makes you wish ALL games in this genre had this option all along.

 

[Eridani]

How's IWD 1, should I play it? Does my party carry over to the sequel from the first game or are they both completely their own thing? In case IWD2 isn't a direct sequel and nothing carries over, I suppose I should just play the better one of the two, which I assume is the sequel.

Your party doesn't carry over. Both games are actually quite different (though they are still both very combat focused), since IWD 1 is based on the same ruleset as Baldur's Gate, while IWD 2 uses the newer 3rd edition D&D rule set instead. Because of this there's not really a consensus to which game is better. I prefer IWD 2, but I know some people don't really like how they adapted the 3rd edition rules.

 

[decoyplatypus]

For non-RTwP games, I'll second (or third, or whatever) Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a good translation of D&D 3.5 edition combat. So you'll get the crazy range of abilities and tactical flexibility you loved about BG2, but with a clean, turn-based system that makes it easier to map out and execute your plans.

 

[FrontalMonk]

I tried to get into BG2 right after 60 hours of BG1 and the expansions.

I tried 3 different classes, I just couldnt get into it. I suspected maybe BG temp-burnout.

Willing to try again, but I no longer game at my desk, I now comfy-couch game and the text/dialog I imagine is as bad as reading an MMO that doesn't have Upscale UI.


.....so that's my long way of asking, do you guys think I should try BG2 EE on my Shield Tablet? Or should I do it on Steam, and you guys will let me know if it's Comfy-couch doable? (I haven't actually installed and tried the game since desk-gaming 2 years ago)

Not sure how effective the EE's are on the shield, but I've had success with the ipad version of BG1.

That said, it took several tries for BG2 to stick for me and it has become in my top 10 games of all time, possibly top 5. The part that sucks about it is that they front load the most boring slog of a dungeon right at the beginning of the game. Tough it out once, then install a mod like Dungeon Be Gone to skip it on subsequent playthroughs. It gets better, but you really have to stick with it. If you're already out of the first dungeon, you might just be burnt out...which is fine, just take a break and come back to it later.

 

[Mupod]

I'm hardly the best one to give an answer to this, but I don't see why not! Aside from obviously missing a couple of nice to have hot keys/shortcuts, BG2 does feel like it'd be a great fit for a tablet.



Mage/thief sounds good, I'll definitely keep an eye out for him. I'd say Yoshi is the most disposable of my current party, it's not like I dislike him, but honestly the real reason I'm keeping him around is just to take care of locks and traps. His interactions with Edwin have been hilarious, though.

Have you done Edwin's Nether Scrolls questline? It's hands down my favorite in the game and Yoshimo is great in it.

 

[aravuus]

Interesting, I hadn't realized IWD and its sequel were different games on such a fundamental level as the DnD version they're based on. Maybe I'll play the sequel first and later on check out the first one. Otherwise I'd probably stick to just IWD 2, but Brandon's post made me curious.

Have you done Edwin's Nether Scrolls questline? It's hands down my favorite in the game and Yoshimo is great in it.

Yes! Just finished it earlier today, it was funny as hell. Loved it.

 

[FrontalMonk]

Interesting, I hadn't realized IWD and its sequel were different games on such a fundamental level as the DnD version they're based on. Maybe I'll play the sequel first and later on check out the first one. Otherwise I'd probably stick to just IWD 2, but Brandon's post made me curious.

Yeah, it sounds like they just came one right after the other, when in reality IWD came right on the heels of BG, not even using the engine improvements that BG2 brought to the table, and IWD2 was literally the last game made with the Infinity Engine.

 

[Eridani]

I actually noticed I have Temple of Elemental Evil on my GOG account, so definitely checking that one out too. Thanks!

If you want to play Temple of Elemental Evil I would definitely recommend installing the unofficial Circle of Eight Modpack, since the base game is incredibly buggy. Unless the GoG version already includes fan patches in which case you might be fine. Without the fan patches It's probably the most broken game I've ever played.

 

[aravuus]

If you want to play Temple of Elemental Evil I would definitely recommend installing the unofficial Circle of Eight Modpack, since the base game is incredibly buggy. Unless the GoG version already includes fan patches in which case you might be fine. Without the fan patches It's probably the most broken game I've ever played.

Does look like there's a stickied thread just for the fan patch on their forums, so yeah, have to install it separately. I'll keep that in mind whenever I get to it. That's probably it mods-wise? They don't have other mod related threads on GOG for that game, at least.

 

[m_dorian]

Planescape: Torment: As people have said, you 'll play a book but what a book it is!

Icewind Dale 1: You will get to make your own party following a usual and very linear D&D story. It is fun but nothing more. I loved it.

Icewind Dale 2: More of the same with same locations as the first one with a more interesting story. I like its gameplay more than the first one. Still love it.

Pillars of Eternity: There are parts i loved about this game and parts i really disliked. I am more attracted to a Forgotten Realms like world than the one Obsidian made for the game. Without being bad it was not interesting enough to explore. The story and the mood of this game felt depressing to me. You ll get to visit the Fox and Goose Inn though i think you already did...

Divinity: Original Sin: Not the best story around and the

Spoiler

imp

is terrible but it has the best turn based group game play i ever played. The maps are well made and the world is fun.There is some Belgian humour there which is good too. Don't miss it!

Neverwinter Nights: The vanilla one would be great if you could make a full party. Bioware attempted to encourage co-op play and missed this one big. The game is worth primarily for its third expansion, Hordes of the Underdark with the usual, at the time, writing greatness of Bioware (i think it was Gaider). If you have played the rest try this one, you can find it very cheap on GoG or other places.

Neverwinter Nights 2: This was made by Obsidian with the assistance of Bioware and the vanilla story is great up until the last chapter and the final boss where it ends in a very stupid manner. A Kotor 2, repetition more or less, but here we got a great expansion, Mask of the Betrayer where Obsidian redeems themselves.

 

[aravuus]

Are there any UI and/or camera mods/fixes for either of the Neverwinter Nights games? I've played some hours of NWN2's Mask of the Betrayer, but the UI and camera were just atrocious.

I'm sure I could get used to them, but for real... Atrocious.

 

[Taruranto]

BG2 is the best the genre has too offer, a fantastic mix of excellent itemization, excellent encounter design, excellent sub-quests, excellent character progression and a pretty good story with a memorable villain. The genre doesn't get better than that.

IWD is pretty much Infinite Engine porn. Personally I found IWD1 dreadfully boring and I don't remember much of 2.

Check out Planescape if you didn't already.

NWN2 main campaign is kinda of a turd, but Mask of the Betrayer is one of the best thing ever. Awful engine tho', one of the worst ever created.

Dragon Age is nothing like Baldur's Gate, the encounter design is dreadful and the battle system is modern ability/potion spam. Really a fucking disappointment.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Are there any UI and/or camera mods/fixes for either of the Neverwinter Nights games? I've played some hours of NWN2's Mask of the Betrayer, but the UI and camera were just atrocious.

I'm sure I could get used to them, but for real... Atrocious.

I think there were some, but the old Neverwinter Nights 1/2 mod site got nuked years ago by IGN. 90% of what was there, especially lesser known stuff, is lost.

 

[Eridani]

Does look like there's a stickied thread just for the fan patch on their forums, so yeah, have to install it separately. I'll keep that in mind whenever I get to it. That's probably it mods-wise? They don't have other mod related threads on GOG for that game, at least.

It's been a while since I've played it (4-5 years), but that was it at the time. If GOG doesn't have any other threads than that probably hasn't changed.

Another game that hasn't been mentioned yet is Knights of the chalice. It's similar to Temple of Elemental Evil in the sense that it's pretty much just turn based combat based on 3rd edition D&D with very little story. I personally couldn't get into it because it doesn't really offer anything outside the combat and I prefer RPGs to at least have some story, but the combat itself seemed pretty good. I know some people really liked it, and I've heard people compare it to ToEE a lot.

 

[aravuus]

I think there were some, but the old Neverwinter Nights 1/2 mod site got nuked years ago by IGN. 90% of what was there, especially lesser known stuff, is lost.

Ouch, what a shame. I've never tried modding my games, but maybe I'll take a look into making it a bit more tolerable for myself.

 

[aravuus]

Fuck yes! Super cheesed the fight, I went back downstairs as soon as the fight against Koshi's party started, only s/he and Meferan followed me down. Very easily taken care of when they were just the two of them.

I got what I came for, but I can't in good conscience leave the rest of their party alive lol. Still 4 left, but they should be much easier without Meferan.

e: whoops, got too excited and accidentally dp'd

e2: rest of the enemy party was easy peasy

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Yeah, it sounds like they just came one right after the other, when in reality IWD came right on the heels of BG, not even using the engine improvements that BG2 brought to the table, and IWD2 was literally the last game made with the Infinity Engine.

It's worth pointing out that IWD2 was made in something like 8 months as Interplay was circling the drain. It's remarkable that IWD2 turned out as well as it did and I wouldn't exactly call it incomplete or anything but I just feel like IWD feels like the first game was a more rounded experience.

Plus, there is no EE version of IWD 2 and I don't think there are plans for one. I think the EE's made a lot of really nice quality of life improvements.

 

[justsomeguy]

Planescape: Torment if you want to experience the video game story of a lifetime. Rather light on combat and tons of reading, but it's so worth it.

Can't get it running acceptably on my i7 920 / r9 270.

 

[Taruranto]

Can't get it running acceptably on my i7 920 / r9 270.

What's the issue exactly?

 

[aravuus]

Has anyone here played the Steam version of Dragon Age Origins Ultimate successfully with override mods? I can install .dazip mods fine with the mod manager from Nexus, but the override mods just don't work. Doesn't matter which override folder I place them into, DAMM doesn't recognize them and the mods just don't work in-game.

e: deleting every trace of the game and re-installing fixed it. I lost my DLC though, and can't redeem it again because I can't log into the horseshit BW social network portal. Lol.

 

[bati]

I'd advise you put Pillars of Eternity to the front of your queue - I'm going through it right now again after bouncing off a couple times but playing Tyranny really helped me understand the combat and rules better so now I'm enjoying it to the max. Cipher with blunderbuss is soooo good.

And now for a recommendation out of left field - Jagged Alliance: Back in Action. Yes, that's right - not the king of the squad TBS genre - Jagged Alliance 2, but a rather mediocre take on the formula JA: BiA. It uses a plan & go system which is essentially a RTwP. With some mods (look up the one by Killatomato, I forgot the name) you can turn it into a pretty decent game.

 

[MikeyB]

I've done three playthroughs over the years as lawful to chaotic good. Finally playing evil. Finally using Jan. So amazing.