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RTTP: Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver

So after re-conquering Unova, Kalos, and Sinnoh, I decided that I would next head off to Johto

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That above is Game Freak breaking the fourth wall and telling the audience how hard it is to actually remake a beloved classics. A look back at the original Pokemon Gold and Silver (and Crystal!) brings to mind many additions to the series like the ability to choose between a male or female protagonist, berries, Pokemon genders and breeding, hold items, Pokeball variants, the Steel and Dark type, Day and night cycle along with timed events, new methods of evolution, etc. Just looking at these things, it's hard to ignore that Gold and Silver were a big deal for the franchise. They're very much direct sequels to Red and Blue which is a rarity. But how well do these remakes stand out?


Both games were released in 2009 in Japan and 2010 in North America, closing off the 4th Generation of Pokemon games. Gameplay wise, they're not that different from the Sinnoh games. They have all of the benefits of the years of new additions to the series like abilities, natures, and the physical/special split. They run a little better, and they look a lot more brighter and colourful, so at this point it feels like Game Freak has a good understanding of the DS hardware, which go on to continue with Pokemon Black and White. Cool new gameplay mechanics involve the return of the awesome feature of Pokemon walking behind you. Not since Pokemon Yellow has a Pokemon been able to walk behind you the whole game, but in that game it was just Pikachu. This time it's been hugely revamped, Game Freak drew sprites for every single known Pokemon at the time, and every single one of them can walk behind you no matter how goofy it looks. You can talk to your Pokemon and see how they're doing, and often times they'll have context sensitive reactions. Like a fire type walking by a beach, in the rain or a pool will be very anxious and unhappy. Other new gameplay additions include the Pokeathalon, where you can train a team of your Pokemon for Olympic style events. These all revolve around the touch screen and are a nice time waster. Your reward is points that you can use to cash in for rare items like Moon Stones which help evolve certain Pokemon. They also happened to add two new additional routes to the west of Cianwood City that lead into something that wasn't in the original Gold and Silver, The Safari Zone. This Safari Zone is the best one in the series, as you get to customise the terrain and distribution of Pokemon in it yourself. There's also no step limit so you don't have to worry about that either. It's really quite outstanding. It also helps fix some of the problems of the original, like the lack of Dark type Pokemon available to you.


The Johto region is often time derided for being very small and unmemorable compared to other regions, but I beg to differ. I think Johto has a lot of personality, and this goes towards how it is a region of culture and history to contrast with its sister region of Kanto. There's a focus on specific Pokemon with many of these cities, a sort of connection to the way of life for the people. From the very start, you learn from the resident Professor that before Pokeballs, Pokemon just walked with their trainers. The first major city you visit is Violet City and North of the city is Sprout Tower, a Tower that is supposedly built around an ancient Bellsprout. Here you'll fight a bunch of monks to earn the Flash TM, but they all seems devoted to this Pokemon. Just on the outskirts of the city is the creepy Ruins of Alph. This place is very strange, if you access your radio you'll hear sounds that are otherworldly and if you solve a certain puzzle there, you'll trigger the awakening of the Unown, strange Pokemon shaped like the alphabet. As you travel, you come to another town called Azalea Town, and here Slowpoke is the Pokemon of the day. In ancient times, the town had very serious drought problem, until a Slowpoke yawned and brought rainfall back to the town and from that point the Pokemon is worshipped. You'll also learn of how Pokeballs used to be made with strange fruits call Apricorns, and in the Ilex Forest nearby there's an ancient guardian Pokemon protecting the place. A lot of the game is like that, with little bits of backstory injected into each city. It helps flesh the world out, something that Game Freak would go on to do with their later games. Altogether, it took me around 30 hours to finish the Johto portion of the game, which seems along the line how long it took me to finish other games in the series. Of course, Gold and Silver don't just end there...


Probably the thing these games are most remembered for is the post game where you return to the Kanto region. Being able to see how much the region has changed in the three years since Red and Blue is such a great delight, and the remake managed to expand and fix some things. Things like Viridian Forest was just a collection of bushes in the original Gold and Silver, but now it has returned in full glory along with awesome music too. The Rock Tunnel has largely expanded, and the Unknown Dungeon has returned. Speaking of music, defeating the all of the Kanto gym leaders and talking to the Game Freak sound designer in Celadon City nets you with the GB sounds key item, which allows you to listen to the Gameboy version of music tracks of Gold and Silver. Now that is serious fanservice. Some chocie tracks from this game:

Azaelea Town: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdqNzFd86vc
Route 47: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc5YFrh8mVM
Route 30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx3pM_OHmGk
Route 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=053CMsCnmHg
Viridian Forest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcUHZv5o41I
Champion Battle theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFEUfS4r_A


The story of these games is weird, cause there really isn't one. It feels like a bunch of loosely connected side stories. There is a through line here that was added with the remakes, a bunch of Kimono girls have chosen you to tame the box legendary of whatever game you're playing, but it's really in the background and gets largely resolved without much fanfare. It's actually kind of quaint, it's just you on an adventure, traveling and seeing the sights. There's no larger goal here, and in that way, I guess it's easier to appreciate each place you visit. The villainous is team of this game is Team Rocket, who has returned and set their sights on bringing back their former leader Giovanni. This plan largely goes kaput thanks to you and the Champion Lance's help.


Rival theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5quTVDGb1_0

I've got to talk about the rival character. He's great, a really douchebag who grows to be a lot nicer by the end of the game. He freaking steals a starter Pokemon, hates Team Rocket, and wants to kick your butt so bad. Throughout the game, people comment on how he is cruel to his Pokemon, and that because of that he cannot win. In a neat sort of merging of gameplay and story, in some of your later battles, he's become much more stronger than before, his Golbat has evolved into a Crobat. Something that can't happen unless it loves its trainer. This is the sort of neat touch Gold and Silver has.


These games do have some problems though, some of which were problems with the original Gold and Silver. The leveling curve is really bad. Wild Pokemon are too weak, along with regular trainers. They don't really prepare you enough with the experience to challenge the trainers in the gyms. It's a seriously annoying problem, which results in you having to have to grind at times. There's a huge difficulty spike once you get to the eighth Gym leader and have to deal with her dragons, they don't really give you the tools to deal with her despite her town literally being next to Pokemon with her weakness. Some people will also dislike the Pokemon distribution having so many Kanto Pokemon in Johto, but this wasn't really a big deal to me as I found there still to be plentiful amounts of new species to use.

All in all, HeartGold and SoulSilver are largely still awesome games which easily live up to the originals. If you can still find a copy, I wholly recommend picking them up and going on your own Johto journey.

 

Zalman

Member
The leveling curve is indeed bad. Probably the worst in the series. Almost everything else is fantastic though.
 

Robin64

Member
Despite the curve problem, this is my favourite entry in the series.

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And I used this bad boy all the damn time. It felt like the best "extra thing" they ever added to Pokemon to me, and it was a shame that it was left behind for this one game.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
It's a good remake but I had zero regrets selling my used copy of gold for $120.

Not big on sticking to the older games.

wish they would bring back the pokemon following
 

Erheller

Member
HGSS are my favorite games in the series. I've been recently playing the Storm Gold/Sacred Silver rom hacks, which are pretty faithful to HGSS but add a lot of neat new things, like being able to catch all 493 pre-Gen V pokemon, new events, and harder Gym battles.

And you get the running shoes and GB sounds at the start!
 
The level curve is definitely ass. Not even the remake alleviates that.

Everything else is great, though. I definitely agree that Johto being a bit more culture oriented added to it's charm even in spite of it's size relative to other regions. It's short, but super sweet.
 

Spyware

Member
That stupidly horribly bad leveling curve is the single thing holding this back from being the best games in the series by miles. But since it's there I don't know if I'm ever gonna replay them after doing two nuzlockes (one in each version) early this year. Soooo much grind.
Makes me sad because the UI rocks and they have so much charm. :(

Nice threads btw!
 

Qurupeke

Member
Pokemon following you was awesome. Pokeathlon was one of the most fun mini games too. And I really liked Pokewalker.

Yeah, they were good remakes with a lot of nice additions.
 

Crayolan

Member
Still my favorite in the series. Despite knowing that the level curve is really janky I like it because of the few parts it makes super difficult. Battles like Whitney, Clair, Lance, and Red are my favorites in the entire series. Easily makes up for the parts where you just steamroll everything for a few badges IMO.

And they still need to bring back pokemon following you.
 

The Lamp

Member
These games remain the best in the series and would be able to hold that crown simply by the fact that any of the Pokemon can follow behind me.

Fucking new generation and I can't let Pokemon out of their balls.
 
I really don't understand why they didn't fix the leveling curve of all things. Its the reason I have trouble getting through the game. I just get bored.
 
I can't stand slogging through this game. Found my old copy during the Pokemon GO craze and was so turned off by the slow speed and horrible UI that I immediately sold it before reaching the first Pokemon Center. Made $70.
 
I need to return to this. I start SS almost immediately after after playing Diamond a crazy amount, but I was getting kinda burnt out on Pokemon. I put it aside a short ways in and didn't play any more Pokemon until X came out. It's been sitting there ever since.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Other than the poor level curve and Pokémon distribution, I really enjoyed the Johto remake and felt that it was miles better than the Kanto remake and possibly better than the Hoenn remake.

The Johto remake brought one of the best features to the series that is yet to return and that is auto run, why they dropped this feature is beyond me.

I just wish that the remake;

-Expanded Johto as it just fly by too fast,

-Gave Kanto a plot as trekking around a region with nothing to do feel directionless,

-Didn't up Red's Level or made it that you had to have HM moves to reach to the summit of Mt Silver,

-Fixed the Level curve,

-Gave you the GB sound at the start as getting after defeating the Kanto gym leader was pointless to me as I had finished the game.

I really don't understand why they didn't fix the leveling curve of all things. Its the reason I have trouble getting through the game. I just get bored.

They did for some of the Trainers in Kanto.
 
I still prefer Crystal. It felt more like an adventure to me. Definite nostalgia factor, but nonetheless.

Also I'm one of the very few who abhor the pokemon following you.
 

wmlk

Member
I still prefer Crystal. It felt more like an adventure to me. Definite nostalgia factor, but nonetheless.

Also I'm one of the very few who abhor the pokemon following you.

This has everything that Pokémon Crystal had. You're right, it is nostalgia.
 

Crayolan

Member
This has everything that Pokémon Crystal had. You're right, it is nostalgia.

Gen 2 artstyle>Gen 4 artstyle

And maybe someone might prefer the original soundtrack and/or like the novelty of the gen 2 battle mechanics?

That's all I can think of.
 

entremet

Member
It's my favorite of the Gen IV games, but it shows its age. No level scaling, making it a pain to grind.

Plus the Gen IV battle engine is glacially slow.

Gen V is better overall. Especially B2W2.
 
These games remain the best in the series and would be able to hold that crown simply by the fact that any of the Pokemon can follow behind me.

Fucking new generation and I can't let Pokemon out of their balls.

But that's exactly what Amie and Refresh do. You let them out of their pokeballs and you interact with them with far more unique interactions for many pokemon.

Also Fun fact, Shigeru Ohmori worked on the Pokewalker Portion of this game.
 

wmlk

Member
Gen 2 artstyle>Gen 4 artstyle

And maybe someone might prefer the original soundtrack and/or like the novelty of the gen 2 battle mechanics?

That's all I can think of.

If we're talking about adventure, HGSS had newer areas areas (everything west of Cianwood for example) and expanded on many areas that were lacking in Kanto. I'd say it easily succeeds in providing a better adventure.

But that's exactly what Amie and Refresh do. You let them out of their pokeballs and you interact with them.

Also Fun fact, Shigeru Ohmori worked on the Pokewalker Portion of this game.

It's nowhere near the same, though.
 
This has everything that Pokémon Crystal had. You're right, it is nostalgia.
I prefer the graphical style on the GBC. By the time these games had released I had some 3000 hours in gen 4 and no longer found that rendition of the pokemon battle system terribly interesting. Generally I found a lot of the atmosphere enabled by the simple graphics and japanese architecture diminished in the remakes in favour of bright colors and friendliness. And all that ignoring the fact that I find the earlier games do a much better job of presenting pokemon as the original concept: a kid going out on their own to find their adventure alongside pokemon. The newer games are too scripted, too willing to hold your hand, and too prone to streamlining the paths the player can take (though that last one isn't really an issue in HGSS, unlike the other gen 4/5/6 games).
If we're talking about adventure, HGSS had newer areas areas (everything west of Cianwood for example) and expanded on many areas that were lacking in Kanto. I'd say it easily succeeds in providing a better adventure.
Cutscenes are antithetical to the sort of adventure I associate with pokemon. That alone really hurts the presentation of HGSS in comparison to crystal in a nontrivial way.
How? Why?

That alone makes this the best Pokémon game ever.
I think really I just wish it was an option. I'm not big on the gen 4 graphics and found some of the sprites looked kind of silly. It wasn't like it made it unplayable, but if you're forced to look at something you don't really like for every second in the overworld, it wears on you.
 

Aleh

Member
Peak of the series graphically.

I have to agree. It's weird how a DS game managed to look better than ORAS (for the most part, and except battles of course), but the overworld in HGSS has an art style that really looks gorgeous.

Gotta say Sun and Moon look even better though, thanks to the move to a fully gridless environment, no more chibi models and other subtle effects.
 

woopWOOP

Member
Man, I feel like replaying my copy just seeing those screenshots.

The wild Pokemon distribution's a bit of a bummer tho. Would love to get a Murkrow early near the start, but.... yeah.
 

wmlk

Member
Cutscenes are antithetical to the sort of adventure I associate with pokemon. That alone really hurts the presentation of HGSS in comparison to crystal in a nontrivial way.

I'm not talking about cutscenes at all. I'm talking about the journey to the Safari Zone through Route 47 and Route 48. It's probably the best series of areas in GSC/HGSS. This is an entirely optional part of the map.

Then you have areas done justice in the remake like Viridian Forest, Cinnabar Island, the adventurous trek up Mt. Silver.

I think HGSS is far better at the feeling of adventure than the original games. If you're annoyed about cutscenes, what really is there other than the Ho-oh/Lugia part? I don't recall any parts where the remakes are more hand-holdy either. Lyra/Ethan show up at only a few spots. Heck, I don't even recall the Ho-oh/Lugia battle to be mandatory, either. HGSS leaves a lot for you to explore on your own, maybe even more than the original games with the addition of a few fully optional areas. The only time where it felt hand-holdy was the Pokéathlon introduction. And again, that part is also totally optional.
 

nickgia

Member
Really bad level curve, but still my favorite pokemon game. I wish there was another pokemon game that is a direct sequel or one with another region even if that is an unrealistic expectation.
 

xzeldax3

Member
The nostalgia hit me like a ton of bricks when I first played this game. It is my favorite Pokemon game and the only one I've played multiple times.
 

Ezalc

Member
This along with B2W2 are the best games in the Pokemon series, an amazing remake that could have used just a few more tweaks but still goddamn amazing. Seeing these games and then seeing the treatment ORAS got is incredibly disappointing. It's like Gamefreak doesn't learn from their past.
 
It's a good remake but I had zero regrets selling my used copy of gold for $120.

Not big on sticking to the older games.

wish they would bring back the pokemon following

They're so expensive! I'm so glad my friend sold me his copy to me for 30 bucks even though he knew he'd probably get more off of ebay or something
 

Semajer

Member
I was disappointed that they didn't bother to add the Sevii Islands. They should have included them and added a battle with Leaf at the end of them.
 

Crayolan

Member
I'm not talking about cutscenes at all. I'm talking about the journey to the Safari Zone through Route 47 and Route 48. It's probably the best series of areas in GSC/HGSS. This is an entirely optional part of the map.

Then you have areas done justice in the remake like Viridian Forest, Cinnabar Island, the adventurous trek up Mt. Silver.

I think HGSS is far better at the feeling of adventure than the original games. If you're annoyed about cutscenes, what really is there other than the Ho-oh/Lugia part? I don't recall any parts where the remakes are more hand-holdy either. Lyra/Ethan show up at only a few spots. Heck, I don't even recall the Ho-oh/Lugia battle to be mandatory, either. HGSS leaves a lot for you to explore on your own, maybe even more than the original games with the addition of a few fully optional areas. The only time where it felt hand-holdy was the Pokéathlon introduction. And again, that part is also totally optional.

If you try to surf east of New Bark with 8 badges but without having fought Lugia/Ho-Oh, Ethan/Lyra show up and stop you.
 

Takashi

Member
Best remakes and probably the best Pokémon games in general. GF managed to properly weave in new elements while keeping the feel of the originals intact. It didn't just feel like a plain nostalgia grab remake either; it pretty much turned it into the definitive way to experience Gen 2.Though I very much enjoyed ORAS, I was disappointed that after already nailing remakes with HGSS, GF somehow wasn't able to make ORAS as great as it could've been.
 
Man, I feel like replaying my copy just seeing those screenshots.

The wild Pokemon distribution's a bit of a bummer tho. Would love to get a Murkrow early near the start, but.... yeah.
If you don't mind the wait, I managed to catch a Murkrow right after beating Jasmine as the Warden called me immediately when I did that. Murkrow shows up in the marshy area to the left of the rocky area where the Warden asks you to catch Geodude from.
 

ar4757

Member
Having never played the original Gold and Silver (I started with R/S, so not a huge nostalgia bias) I think HGSS is my favorite Pokemon game overall.

Sure I like Hoenn and Sinnoh more as regions, but HGSS has my favorite overall package. The following Pokemon, toggle running shoes, the epic finale on Mt Silver. Even the Pokewalker was pretty great. Johto is a pretty peaceful place. Visiting Kanto is amazing too. If the level curve was fixed, it would go from excellent to excellent+1.

Either way, it's awesome.
 
Good game, but I just found it really disappointing that I couldn't catch pokemon from Gens 3 and 4 during my journey. Shoutouts to the user here who recommended Storm Silver.
 

woopWOOP

Member
If you don't mind the wait, I managed to catch a Murkrow right after beating Jasmine as the Warden called me immediately when I did that. Murkrow shows up in the marshy area to the left of the rocky area where the Warden asks you to catch Geodude from.
Ohyeah, there's that new area! Hmm, well 6th gym is better than postgame I suppose.

But looking it up now, it turns out Murkrow can also be found through the Pokewalker at an early level as well. Huh! Guess I'm gonna give that a shot... if the thing hasn't died on me yet anyway.
 

Peléo

Member
Great topic OP.

Loved the game. It's funny how a rather small feature of the game, having pokemon to follow you, adds a whole lot. You end up creating an even deeper connection. Would love if they brought it back in the future. I will always miss the distinct chibi artstyle the old pokemons have. It is timeless in my opinion, wouldn't mind at all if they revisited it in the future.
 
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