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So how's this budget PC?

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I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
So, I'm looking at possibly going for a cheap upgrade to my PC. No need for monitors, keyboards, mice, operating systems et al, because I've already got some lying around the place. Here's a budget system that I've specced out based shamelessly on one from ExtremeTech - any suggestions for improvements that wouldn't break the bank? The intention is for it to mostly be a Linux box, but no doubt with some Windows variant for gaming...

£64.74 - Gigabyte GA-K8NS Ultra-939
£84.73 - AMD (Winchester) Athlon 64bit 3000+ 939pin 512kb L2cache 90nm Retail Boxed Processor with Heatsink and Fan Included and 3 Year Warranty
£54.60 - 2 x Viking 512mb DDR PC3200 400MHz 184pin Memory Module
£42.12 - Antec Solution Slk3700amb - System Cabinet - Mid Tower - Atx - Metallic Bronze - Power Supply 350 Watt
£42.46 - Western Digital Caviar SE 120Gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache EIDE Hard Drive - OEM
£20.70 - Liteon SOHC-5235 52x32x52x16x Internal IDE Combo Retail
£68.97 - Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9800 PRO 128 MB DDR 8x AGP DVi & TV-Out - Retail Box lite
£24.76 - Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 Value - 24bit 64 Voice Pci 6 Speaker Support - Win98 Xp - OEM
Cart Total: £403.08 ($734)

[Edit: Now the processor fits the motherboard. Duh.]
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
No comments from the PC experts out there? :(

In particular, any recommendations for a vaguely equivalent NVIDIA card to replace the 9800? Obviously I'd prefer that under Linux...
 
D

Danj

Member
iapetus said:
No comments from the PC experts out there? :(

In particular, any recommendations for a vaguely equivalent NVIDIA card to replace the 9800? Obviously I'd prefer that under Linux...
Click to expand...

Looks okay. Personally I prefer MSI over Gigabyte for boards, but that's just me. As far as the NVIDIA thing goes... it looks as if all the top-of-the-line last-gen parts (which is what the 9800 is) have disappeared. Since you're looking for an AGP part, I suggest a 6600 AGP card, there seem to be plenty of them about the place on dabs.com now.

Is there any reason you're not going with PCI-Express/SATA? PCI Express motherboards and graphics cards really aren't that much more expensive any more, and SATA is obviously the way of the future as far as hard drives are concerned (plus the cabling is easier and doesn't obstruct the airflow as much as IDE). Also, why a combo drive instead of a full DVD writer? The current generation of NEC DVD writer (I think they're up to ND-3520A or something now) is only about £14 more.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Very nice - one problem though...

I'd suggest getting a larger power supply, at least 400-450W to be safe. Some boards are more power hungry than others. I built a comp with an MSI K7N2GM-L; it has a 2500+, 512MB, 80GB hard disk, floppy disk drive, and one optical drive. It has a 380W power supply, which you think would be enough for an AGP card, but it's not. I'm forced to use onboard video (GeForce4 MX) because any AGP card will make it freeze upon boot because there's not enough power. The same happens during Windows Setup. I even tried putting in a ATI Rage 128 PCI card and it did the same thing. Keep in mind I am using NO expansion slots; it (the board) simply needs a ridiculous amount of power.

Get an Antec TruePower if you're looking for something good. Thermaltake seems to make reliable PSU's (based on consumer feedback at least), but are also very affordable.

I'd also suggest a DVD burner, simply because you could find one for only ~$25 more than what you're spending - and even if you don't backup movies and stuff, it's STILL nice to have for archiving personal data. 650-700MB CD-R's really don't cut it anymore, let alone 4.7GB!

Other than that your comp is looking just fine.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Danj said:
Is there any reason you're not going with PCI-Express/SATA?
Click to expand...

Cluelessness, probably. That's exactly why I was looking for feedback on the spec. :)

So, a couple of possible changes, then:

£24.99 - Casecom KG-828 Black Atx Midi Tower Case With 400w PSU and USB/Audio
£75.59 - Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9 SKT939 NFORCE4 PCI-E DDR400 RETAIL BOX
£84.73 - AMD (Winchester) Athlon 64bit 3000+ 939pin 512kb L2cache 90nm Retail Boxed Processor with Heatsink and Fan Included and 3 Year Warranty
£48.50 - Maxtor 6B160M0 Diamondmax 10 160GB 7200rpm Serial ATA150 8MB Cache - OEM
£79.10 - Inno 3D GeForce 6600 PCI Express / 256MB DDR (300/550) + DVI + TV out (Resolution up to 1024x768) + Dongle. (Fan)
£27.99 - LG GSA4163 16X DVD Dual Layer R/RW/RAM Internal IDE (Beige) - OEM
£54.60 - 2 x Viking 512mb DDR PC3200 400MHz 184pin Memory Module
£24.76 - Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 Value - 24bit 64 Voice Pci 6 Speaker Support - Win98 Xp - OEM
Cart Total: £420.26 ($765)

£521.33 including VAT and Saturday delivery. Switching over to a 256MB PCI-E GeForce6600, the larger SATA drive and the DVD burner is pretty much offset by the cheaper (but higher-power) case - didn't think my budget would stretch to the higher-end Antec.

What's the vague difference in power between the 9800 128MB AGP and the 6600 256MB PCI-E in terms of graphics? Is this a step up or down in power for the sake of good drivers? :)
 
H

Hooker

Member
Get an nvidia card for Linux. ATi isn't quite there yet for Linux drivers

EDIT: Saw you already changed the card.


And it's a step up as well. Newer generation so supports more stuff
 
D

Danj

Member
iapetus said:
Cluelessness, probably. That's exactly why I was looking for feedback on the spec. :)

So, a couple of possible changes, then:

£24.99 - Casecom KG-828 Black Atx Midi Tower Case With 400w PSU and USB/Audio
£75.59 - Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9 SKT939 NFORCE4 PCI-E DDR400 RETAIL BOX
£84.73 - AMD (Winchester) Athlon 64bit 3000+ 939pin 512kb L2cache 90nm Retail Boxed Processor with Heatsink and Fan Included and 3 Year Warranty
£48.50 - Maxtor 6B160M0 Diamondmax 10 160GB 7200rpm Serial ATA150 8MB Cache - OEM
£79.10 - Inno 3D GeForce 6600 PCI Express / 256MB DDR (300/550) + DVI + TV out (Resolution up to 1024x768) + Dongle. (Fan)
£27.99 - LG GSA4163 16X DVD Dual Layer R/RW/RAM Internal IDE (Beige) - OEM
£54.60 - 2 x Viking 512mb DDR PC3200 400MHz 184pin Memory Module
£24.76 - Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 Value - 24bit 64 Voice Pci 6 Speaker Support - Win98 Xp - OEM
Cart Total: £420.26 ($765)

£521.33 including VAT and Saturday delivery. Switching over to a 256MB PCI-E GeForce6600, the larger SATA drive and the DVD burner is pretty much offset by the cheaper (but higher-power) case - didn't think my budget would stretch to the higher-end Antec.

What's the vague difference in power between the 9800 128MB AGP and the 6600 256MB PCI-E in terms of graphics? Is this a step up or down in power for the sake of good drivers? :)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go with a Maxtor drive, I'd recommend WD or Seagate.. in my experience Maxtors are problematic. As for the 9800 128Mb and 6600 256Mb, it should be a step up, because not only is the 6600 current-gen, you're getting a PCI-E version. Also the extra VRAM will help.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Fair enough:

£24.99 - Casecom KG-828 Black Atx Midi Tower Case With 400w PSU and USB/Audio
£75.59 - Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9 SKT939 NFORCE4 PCI-E DDR400 RETAIL BOX
£84.73 - AMD (Winchester) Athlon 64bit 3000+ 939pin 512kb L2cache 90nm Retail Boxed Processor with Heatsink and Fan Included and 3 Year Warranty
£47.54 - Western Digital 160GB Serial ATA150 7200rpm 8mb Cache- OEM
£79.10 - Inno 3D GeForce 6600 PCI Express / 256MB DDR (300/550) + DVI + TV out (Resolution up to 1024x768) + Dongle. (Fan)
£27.99 - LG GSA4163 16X DVD Dual Layer R/RW/RAM Internal IDE (Beige) - OEM
£54.60 - 2 x Viking 512mb DDR PC3200 400MHz 184pin Memory Module
£24.76 - Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 Value - 24bit 64 Voice Pci 6 Speaker Support - Win98 Xp - OEM
£0.00 - Gentoo Linux AMD64
Cart Total: £419.30 ($764)

Even saves a couple of pounds. :)
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Just one last question on this one (hopefully) - will bog standard Windows XP Home run on this, or does it need the Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition? If either will work, which is the best gaming option?
 
D

Danj

Member
Yes, XP Home will run on it, and in fact for gaming that's what you should probably use - because driver support for XP 64-bit is patchy at best, and there are still lots of compatibility issues.
 
G

golem

Member
XP standard will work with 64bit athlons no problem

you really should get a 6600GT if that is not one already

i recently got a 3200+ 64 venice, MSI Neo4 Plat SLI, 6800GT, and Antec NeoPower 480.. it rocks :D
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
golem said:
XP standard will work with 64bit athlons no problem

you really should get a 6600GT if that is not one already

i recently got a 3200+ 64 venice, MSI Neo4 Plat SLI, 6800GT, and Antec NeoPower 480.. it rocks :D
Click to expand...

It's quite a price jump to the GT - another £20+ for a model with half the RAM. Is the difference really big enough? I'm upgrading from a PCI GeForce4 MX 440, so at least it's likely to be light years better whichever I end up with. :)

Current plan was to upgrade the graphics card some time after the next generation hits - basically try to keep a generation or two behind bleeding edge, with the cost savings that entails...
 
D

Diablos

Member
Can you post a link to the case so I can see the specs for the PSU?
Make sure you have enough amps on the rails. Annoying as hell, I know - but it'll save you headaches later on.

But in any case, a 400W PSU should not be a possible change, but a manditory one - it's simply not a good idea to build a new PC these days with 300-350W power supplies.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Hmm. Should I be worried that I can't find the PSU specs anywhere? :)

The PSU seems to be an Encer 400W CPU, but I can't find useful specifications at all.
 
G

golem

Member
H

Hooker

Member
The PSU thing is overblown.


I've been running a P4 2.4b, Radeon9800Pro @ XT, 2*IBM Deskstars, 1*WD 74 GB Raptor, Plextor burner and normal DVD drive on a no-name 300W PSU and NEVER had problems. (upgraded to a 380W Coolermaster now though, came with the case :D - Centurion-5)


1 thing you need to look is whether the PSU has the right connectors for that 6600
 
D

Diablos

Member
Hooker - AMD boards are known for using a lot more power than Intel ones, especially nForce boards. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. :)

iapetus - the 400W that comes with the case should be fine. But I personally wouldn't trust anything other than Antec. I've read too many horror stories about people using no-name/unpopular PSU's. If you're really trying to save money, chances are the more generic 400W one will be fine. Of course, another advantage of Antec PSU's is that they are much much quieter. I'm not blowing things out of proportion here, just trying to avoid a hassle when his PC would lock up before the first phase of Windows setup. :)
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Right, I'll stick with the generic case/PSU for the moment, then. If I have problems with it, I can always track down the money for a decent case/PSU from somewhere, and use the generic case as an upgrade for my current system (a no-name 400W should be more than enough to handle this). Having looked at some gaming benchmarks I will upgrade to the 6600GT, though - seems to be 10-50% better performance over the 6600.

Brings the final price inclusive of VAT and shipping to £613.36, which seems pretty respectable to me for what's basically a pretty highly specced system.
 
C

CurlySaysX

Banned
I have a 300W PSU (which came with the cheap case) an AMD 64 3500+ Gigabyte motherboard with the Nvidia NForce 3 ultra chipset. 2 HDD ( 1 sata and 1 IDE), 1 DVD Burner, 1 CDRW, 9600XT, 3 Case fans ( 6 in total - 1 cpu, 1 vga and 1 PSU), and my pc hasn't crashed once - EVER!!!
It does boot up a bit slow though... but once it's up and running it runs like a champ. :)
a good PSU is only needed if you plan to overclock your system.
 
D

Diablos

Member
iapetus said:
Right, I'll stick with the generic case/PSU for the moment, then. If I have problems with it, I can always track down the money for a decent case/PSU from somewhere, and use the generic case as an upgrade for my current system (a no-name 400W should be more than enough to handle this). Having looked at some gaming benchmarks I will upgrade to the 6600GT, though - seems to be 10-50% better performance over the 6600.

Brings the final price inclusive of VAT and shipping to £613.36, which seems pretty respectable to me for what's basically a pretty highly specced system.
Click to expand...

Right. That's the smart thing to do.

If you have problems with the PSU, no big deal - you needed the case anyway, they all come with PSU's so it's not like you were wasting your money if you have to buy the Antec later on.

I realize you have higher prices, VAT, and all of that other happy horseshit. :)

Chances are - based on other responses - that my MSI board is slightly flawed in how much power it needs to operate.
 
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