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[Jindrax]

Wall of text inc tldr: stopped by anti terror cops who went through my shit illegally and I might have met an IS member or something, Reported to the authorities ofc.

So this is in Brussels Belgium

Me and a good friend were doing our usual workout at an outside park with a few other guys there too.

Across the street I noticed this dude in a van staring at us from a distance. And older guy I'd guess end thirties. Didn't really think much of it at the time. World's full of weirdos whatever.

30 minutes into our workout two kids show up, I'd guess 17 and 21. They head over to the car greet the guy a make way to the park.

The weird guy greets me and my buddy in Arabic (I'm black and my buddy is Moroccan) ignored the other guys who were there who white.

Now they head over behind me and my buddy to workout and I'm keeping an eye on them because my bag and his bike were there. Didn't want them to get stolen so I was paying attention to them while working out. I overhear this conversation about how great Syria is and about religion and prophets and combat and stuff.

This is when I started thinking it was a bit weird. Then every time a white guy walks by he yells allahu ahkbar at them and stares them down. And starts saying insulting things about Belgians and French people loud enough for the others who were working out to hear.

Eventually he leaves with the two kids, after once again only saying goodbye to me and my buddy.

So at this point I'm just thinking weird dude... Not 10 minutes later me and me friend leave to head home... Were walking up the road when all of a sudden 4 cop cars stop. And two Captain America sized dudes come out of nowhere in civilian gear and tell us to go to the side.

So I'm like what, why? He goes yells GET TO THE SIDE THIS IS THE POLICE. I was like oh shit. A third captain America in civilian gear shows up and they detain us both until all the other people around were gone.

Then I had to empty pockets bags and strip of excess clothing (coat and sweater). Then we got frisked and they separated us.

This is when some illegal shit went down. They demanded my phone. And for me to unlock it. Now I'm a lawyer I know my rights but when you're surrounded by huge cops with guns you comply. They went through my contacts and calls. WhatsApp messages and checked my apps.

Then the specifically asked about that one guy. What he was wearing. Where he went. Details about the van. If I knew him. If knew who he was with. What he said. Was he armed.
Afterwards they told me I could go. My friend a few moments later. And they followed us home too...

I've been stopped by cops before but jeez never like that. Especially the phone part wtf... I'm guessing the guy was a terror suspect they were trying to catch. Especially since they were in civilian without any police emblem on their body.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Reported to the authorities ofc.

Wall of text inc tldr: stopped by anti terror cops who went through my shit illegally and I might have met an IS member or something.

So this is in Brussels Belgium

Me and a good friend were doing our usual workout at an outside park with a few other guys there too.

Across the street I noticed this dude in a van staring at us from a distance. And older guy I'd guess end thirties. Didn't really think much of it at the time. World's full of weirdos whatever.

30 minutes into our workout two kids show up, I'd guess 17 and 21. They head over to the car greet the guy a make way to the park.

The weird guy greets me and my buddy in Arabic (I'm black and my buddy is Moroccan) ignored the other guys who were there who white.

Now they head over behind me and my buddy to workout and I'm keeping an eye on them because my bag and his bike were there. Didn't want them to get stolen so I was paying attention to them while working out. I overhear this conversation about how great Syria is and about religion and prophets and combat and stuff.

This is when I started thinking it was a bit weird. Then every time a white guy walks by he yells allahu ahkbar at them and stares them down. And starts saying insulting things about Belgians and French people loud enough for the others who were working out to hear.

Eventually he leaves with the two kids, after once again only saying goodbye to me and my buddy.

So at this point I'm just thinking weird dude... Not 10 minutes later me and me friend leave to head home... Were walking up the road when all of a sudden 4 cop cars stop. And two Captain America sized dudes come out of nowhere in civilian gear and tell us to go to the side.

So I'm like what, why? He goes yells GET TO THE SIDE THIS IS THE POLICE. I was like oh shit. A third captain America in civilian gear shows up and they detain us both until all the other people around were gone.

Then I had to empty pockets bags and strip of excess clothing (coat and sweater). Then we got frisked and they separated us.

This is when some illegal shit went down. They demanded my phone. And for me to unlock it. Now I'm a lawyer I know my rights but when you're surrounded by huge cops with guns you comply. They went through my contacts and calls. WhatsApp messages and checked my apps.

Then the specifically asked about that one guy. What he was wearing. Where he went. Details about the van. If I knew him. If knew who he was with. What he said. Was he armed.
Afterwards they told me I could go. My friend a few moments later. And they followed us home too...

I've been stopped by cops before but jeez never like that. Especially the phone part wtf... I'm guessing the guy was a terror suspect they were trying to catch. Especially since they were in civilian without any police emblem on their body.

Not seeing how it's illegal when you fully complied with their demands/requests and unlocked your phone for them, unless there are more strict protection laws in Europe.

 

[Snaku]

Be glad this didn't happen in the US, you'd be dead by now.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

In what way did they go through your stuff illegally? If it's legal in Belgium for police to search a person on suspicion of a weapon or whatever and if you agreed to unlock your phone for them, wouldn't it be fine? I'm not aware of the extent of policing powers in Belgium, so if you could explain what was wrong I'd super appreciate it!

Sounded very intimidating though OP, I'm sorry you had to experience that.

 

[Symphonia]

You allowed them to go through your phone. They didn’t brute force it. You could’ve retained your rights and refused to unlock it.

 

[CSJ]

In what way did they go through your stuff illegally? If it's legal in Belgium for police to search a person on suspicion of a weapon or whatever and if you agreed to unlock your phone for them, wouldn't it be fine? I'm not aware of policing powers in Belgium, so if you could explain what was wrong I'd super appreciate it!

Sounded very intimidating though OP, I'm sorry you had to experience that.

Look up coercion and abuse of power.
Complying doesn't mean it's legal for fuck sake; fearing for your safety makes people do stuff they don't want to.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

You allowed them to go through your phone. They didn’t brute force it. You could’ve retained your rights and refused to unlock it.

Still doesn't necessarily make it morally right

 

[Jindrax]

Not seeing how it's illegal when you fully complied with their demands/requests and unlocked your phone for them, unless there are more strict protection laws in Europe.

You can't ask me or make me unlock my phone for you to check.
Privacy law, etc etc etc. You need a warrant or an order from a high ranking officer in extreme cases to get to use anything from my phone.

All these things are protected like laptops etc.

 

[Joni]

I'd personally be more scared about the apparant terror suspect that was hanging out with you.

 

[mysocksarepink]

Be glad the officials at least know about a potential terrorist. Id have complied with everything they asked if it meant getting that got in the van off the streets

 

[Jindrax]

Look up coercion and abuse of power.
Complying doesn't mean it's legal for fuck sake; fearing for your safety makes people do stuff they don't want to.

basically this. Anything they got wouldn't hold up in court and Belgium courts are known for throwing out cases for the tiniest mistake in procedure.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Look up coercion and abuse of power.
Complying doesn't mean it's legal for fuck sake

Ease up, mate, I'm well aware that may be the case. As I said, I'm not aware of the extent of policing powers in a country I've never been to and don't have time to look up their privacy legislation or PPR acts on it right now.

You can't ask me or make me unlock my phone for you to check.
Privacy law, etc etc etc. You need a warrant or an order from a high ranking officer in extreme cases to get to use anything from my phone.

All these things are protected like laptops etc.

Oh interesting, they can't request it at all without a warrant? In my state you can consent to having the police search your phone or refuse and make them get a warrant (or prove probable cause), so that's what was confusing me. Then yeah, reporting it was the right thing to do OP.

 

[BriGuy]

I'm sorry you went through that. You were probably well within your rights to refuse the search, but this may have been one of those situations where keeping your head down was the smarter move. It's sad the world is coming to this.

 

[daxy]

Even if those cops didn't pick you up, you should definitely file reports on crazy propaganda spreading dudes like that. Talking about going to war in Syria and yelling Allahu Akbar to white people is typically a sign of being severely deranged and, in this climate, possibly dangerous to society.

 

[Goldrusher]

^ Exactly.

I mean wtf:

So at this point I'm just thinking weird dude... Not 10 minutes later me and me friend leave to head home.

How about taking some initiative and reporting that scum?

You do know there was another terrorist attack yesterday in Brussels? By a black guy?

 

[shira]

Now I'm a lawyer I know my rights but when you're surrounded by huge cops with guns you comply.

glad you are alive

 

[smuf]

They actually shot a terrorist in Brussels last night, which makes your story even scarier.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.3054684

 

[RulkezX]

Wasn't there just another attack in Belgium yesterday.

I'd you feel so strongly about privacy and you're a lawyer , why did you unlock your phone. It's Belgium , you weren't getting shot.

 

[Ovid]

Damn, so it looks like the 17 and 21 y/o got caught up are now probably brainwashed by that lunatic.

If they are terror suspects I hope they get caught before something bad happens.

OP, you're lucky.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I hope you were going to report that guy to the police anyways, talk about beyond sketch.

Although if he actually was a terror suspect, he's doing a horrible job keeping a low profile

 

[DevilFox]

A weird guy approaches, talks about "how great Syria is and about religion and prophets and combat and stuff" and you're scared by cops looking at your phone?
I understand you felt uncomfortable but they were doing their job, promptly as well I'd say. My two cents, but you should've walked out from the weird guy asap.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

I've been coerced into a car search before in the US. I assure you standing in the cold with no jacket being watched is not fun. I appreciate what our boys in blue do but not everything is always justified.

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

A weird guy approaches, talks about "how great Syria is and about religion and prophets and combat and stuff" and you're scared by cops looking at your phone?
I understand you felt uncomfortable but they were doing their job, promptly as well I'd say. My two cents, but you should've walked out from the weird guy asap.

Yeah, that's pretty much what i got out of it.

 

[Gussemke]

I dont see any problem here. I am sorry you had to experience this first hand. But if there is a terrorist treat i wouldnt mind if they searched my shit. Sure they are doing ethnic profiling. But on the other hand if you dont have anything to hide, why bother. Luckily you dont live in the US because that would go down otherwhise. But none the less. Pretty fucked up situation you got into OP! I am glad to hear that you and your friend are ok!

 

[TSM]

I'd probably be more concerned that you might be on a list of some sort now.

 

[Gussemke]

A weird guy approaches, talks about "how great Syria is and about religion and prophets and combat and stuff" and you're scared by cops looking at your phone?
I understand you felt uncomfortable but they were doing their job, promptly as well I'd say. My two cents, but you should've walked out from the weird guy asap.

Also this ^

 

[ClosingADoor]

While it sucks for you, at least they are keeping a watch on that crazy dude. Police could have handled it better I guess, but there was a attack in Brussels so everyone is on edge again.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

So I'm confused. You see a sketchy looking guy talking to youths and shouting the terrorists favourite murder phrase at people...why didn't you call the police yourself already?

 

[Dyle]

How did you unlock your phone, with your fingerprint or by inputting a pin? Not sure about the laws in Europe, but as I understand it in the US the two are considered different things and require different levels of probable cause to justify a search, with fingerprints requiring less cause.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/05/iphone-fingerprint-search-warrant/480861/

 

[Symphonia]

Still doesn't necessarily make it morally right

I never said it was. I was just stating a fact.

 

[Jindrax]

ah there seems to be confusion, I'll rephrase the OP, I meant the weird dude was reported not the cops. I couldn't report them if I wanted to I didn't see badge or anything and the cars were unmarked ofc I only knew because they used those clip on lights.

 

[knkng]

I get that it kind of sucks for you, but if those really were terrorists that were greeting you, then I can kind of understand why this happened. I would say it's maybe an unfortunate inconvenience of the world we are living in.

 

[Anion]

Seems like you ran into like the FBI of Belgium? Doesn't seem like a standard cops

 

[RulkezX]

So I'm confused. You see a sketchy looking guy talking to youths and shouting the terrorists favourite murder phrase at people...why didn't you call the police yourself already?

Given the seemingly rapid response in assuming someone did.

It's conceivable that given crazy IS guy was shouting at white people ( while the OP didn't bat an eyelid) and was engaged in conversation in Arabic by crazy IS guy , the OP was probably also mentioned to the cops

 

[Occam]

A weird guy approaches, talks about "how great Syria is and about religion and prophets and combat and stuff" and you're scared by cops looking at your phone?
I understand you felt uncomfortable but they were doing their job, promptly as well I'd say. My two cents, but you should've walked out from the weird guy asap.

Yeah, or maybe even should have done something about it.
The police were obviously watching the guy, which is good.
This is one of those times where I want the police to act.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

ah there seems to be confusion, I'll rephrase the OP, I meant the weird dude was reported not the cops.

Oh good, well atleast you reported that dude. I think that's something that everyone here can agree was the right thing to do.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

I never said it was. I was just stating a fact.

Sure. Don't disagree they complied with the law.

 

[Lister]

So I'm confused. You see a sketchy looking guy talking to youths and shouting the terrorists favourite murder phrase at people...why didn't you call the police yourself already?

Im 100% sure saying a religious phrase and saying how great Syria is NOT, nor should it be, a crime.

Definetely someone who should be kept an eye though, so yeah maybe calling a non emergency number to report.

 

[jesu]

Does Belgium have any special counter terrorism laws in place at the minute?
Ones that would give them the right to stop and search you, and your phone.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Im 100% sure saying a religious phrase and saying how great Syria is is NOT, nor should it be, a crime.

It's not a crime, but it is suspicious at least and should be reported considering the terrorist threat, and certainly with the problems Brussels is facing in dealing with radicalization there.

Edit:

Definetely someone who should be kept an eye though, so yeah maybe calling a non emergency number to report.

Yeah, this. No use in calling the emergency number of course.

 

[tonysidaway]

As I said, I'm not aware of the extent of policing powers in a country I've never been to and don't have time to look up their privacy legislation or PPR acts on it right now.

Then it would probably be a good idea to shut up until you can spare a moment or two to inform yourself.

 

[RockTurtle]

Im 100% sure saying a religious phrase and saying how great Syria is is NOT, nor should it be, a crime.

given the current situation in europe and context, and the fact that even the OP felt something was off about the dude, it's not that far fetched to err on the side of caution.

 

[daxy]

So, I tried to read up a bit on what the law's like in Belgium and how it's different from over here (the Netherlands). It seems like the police does not need to obtain judicial permission to have a phone unlocked in a criminal investigation ('opsporingsonderzoek') if they confiscate it from you--though I would assume different rules may apply in the case of (potential) witnesses or informants.

http://datanews.knack.be/ict/nieuws...psporingsonderzoek/article-normal-561735.html

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Then it would probably be a good idea to shut up until you can spare a moment or two to inform yourself.

That's why I specifically asked the guy who lives in BELGIUM and is a LAWYER about what the violated law or regulation was in regards to his encounter. I specifically did that before continuing, so don't start with this inflammatory stuff.

 

[Jindrax]

So, I tried to read up a bit on what the law's like in Belgium and how it's different from over here (the Netherlands). It seems like the police does not need to obtain judicial permission to have a phone unlocked in a criminal investigation ('opsporingsonderzoek') if they confiscate it from you--though I would assume different rules may apply in the case of (potential) witnesses or informants.

http://datanews.knack.be/ict/nieuws...psporingsonderzoek/article-normal-561735.html

Yeah I'm not under criminal investigation haha. They probably can check THAT guys phone willy nilly. But not two guys on the side of the road who happen to be there.
The searching of my person is legal in the event of another crime, so that's perfectly okay.

 

[daxy]

Yeah I'm not under criminal investigation haha. They probably can check THAT guys phone willy nilly. But not two guys on the side of the road who happen to be there.

Yeah, figured as much. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Yeah I'm not under criminal investigation haha. They probably can check THAT guys phone willy nilly. But not two guys on the side of the road who happen to be there.
The searching of my person is legal in the event of another crime, so that's perfectly okay.

Was literally about to ask for clarification on this haha, I tried looking for an option to read the article in English but no luck

 

[Joni]

Privacy commission in Belgium has stated in the past it isn't a privacy infraction if people would chose to give police access to their phone. They did so after there was a proposal to do so automatically after traffic accidents. So on their end, it wasn't an infraction on privacy laws because you gave them access.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Privacy commission in Belgium has stated in the past it isn't a privacy infraction if people would chose to give police access to their phone.

edit: nvm, worked it out

 

[TSM]

Yeah I'm not under criminal investigation haha. They probably can check THAT guys phone willy nilly. But not two guys on the side of the road who happen to be there.
The searching of my person is legal in the event of another crime, so that's perfectly okay.

Eh, I'd imagine it's in your best interest to convince the police that you have nothing to do with that guy. If looking through my phone accomplishes that then I'd be less concerned about the legality of it than washing my hands of the situation. Then again anyone looking through my phone isn't going to find anything remotely interesting.