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Someone is shooting and stabbing homeless men
- Thread starter DeafTourette
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Little Mac
Gold Member
TBH the first thing I thought of was ...
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
TBH the first thing I thought of was ...
Honestly, me too... But this person assaults them in their sleep.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Saw this on the news this morning when I woke up.
Hope they catch this fucker asap. Actually no I hope he encounters a sleeping homeless guy with a fully loaded shotgun
Hope they catch this fucker asap. Actually no I hope he encounters a sleeping homeless guy with a fully loaded shotgun
teezzy
Banned
TBH the first thing I thought of was ...
Is that what this movie about?
Hawking Radiation
Member
There might have been a hobo or two in there somewhere but I don't remember anyone just randomly killing them. I dunno.
I might be wrong.
Artoris
Gold Member
Watch it, it's probably his best film
SpiceRacz
Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They take homeless people and tell them they can win money if they survive being hunted by wealthy men. Yancy Butler (i used to think she was the SHIZNEY!) needs help looking for her dad and she meets Chance (Jean-Claude) ... He gets caught and made to play the hunt game... It was the best of his movies after Bloodsport
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
better than bloodsport?
Artoris
Gold Member
I don't know, they are too different
Prison Mike
Banned
Artoris
Gold Member
No need for Freddy
what if he has a kindred spirit who likes walking in the woods. I am sure I remember this next time I go camping
Prison Mike
Banned
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Two of the homeless men were killed. One was burned as he died.
kurisu_1974
Member
mcjmetroid
Member
Wow hope they catch this fucker.
Taxexemption
Member
This is the worst possible response.
Instead of asking,
"Why are there people living on the streets" or "is it still okay to let people sleep on the streets in this vulnerable position" you now want people who can't manage their own lives to sleep in public with firearms. I almost admire your libertarian love of freedom, but no that isn't the answer.
Prison Mike
Banned
Taxexemption
Member
And what is the answer
Not letting homeless people live on the streets. Temporary housing. Declare a state of emergency and make airbnb rentals comply with the same rules as other short term rentals. Place a high tax on unoccupied rentals to be used to pay for mental hospitals and temporary housing. I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist, it just takes will. We have all the will in the world to deal with other matters, but for the homeless? Nothing.
You should not be allowed to sleep on the streets, period. Attempting to do so, or doing so by accident should result in you being swiftly picked up by law enforcement and relocated to a place that is indoors. We could easily fix this problem if it was important to us as a society. Instead we like to parade our homeless around town and watch them die slowly as an example of how little society cares.
Prison Mike
Banned
InfiniteCombo
Banned
There's a question of providing shelter for the homeless who want it. That's the easier topic
The more difficult one is what to do about those who DON'T want shelter. It's kinda of hard to find (at least with the time and effort I can afford right now) what the New York State and New York City laws are exactly, but my understanding is that you can't force a homeless person into a shelter against his/her will. This got so bad that at one point former Governor Andrew Cuomo had to sign an executive order to forcibly shelter homeless people -- even against their will -- under certain conditions; from what I remember it was weather-based. (As in: "Temperatures below freezing," from what I remember.)
There will always be a subset of the homeless population that will be on the streets no matter what.
The more difficult one is what to do about those who DON'T want shelter. It's kinda of hard to find (at least with the time and effort I can afford right now) what the New York State and New York City laws are exactly, but my understanding is that you can't force a homeless person into a shelter against his/her will. This got so bad that at one point former Governor Andrew Cuomo had to sign an executive order to forcibly shelter homeless people -- even against their will -- under certain conditions; from what I remember it was weather-based. (As in: "Temperatures below freezing," from what I remember.)
There will always be a subset of the homeless population that will be on the streets no matter what.
Taxexemption
Member
You can force them to accept accomodations and not live out on the streets as long as you have shelter to offer them. At least that is the case in CA.
You don't have a fundamental right to sleep on the streets. Not only should they be forced off the streets, if they insist on their lifestyle they should be forced into counseling. If you had a son or daughter that decided they wanted to live on the streets and beg for change you wouldn't start getting all libertarian on us and telling us how they had a human right to not contribute to society, live in squalor, while taking advantage of its resources would you? You would do everything you could to prevent your children from living outdoors in a city?
InfiniteCombo
Banned
I think my post was clearly coming at it from a New York perspective.
Who the hell is being libertarian? I wasn't taking a stance, I was stating facts. You went way off the rails with your emotional response.
These past few days, I don't know what the hell is going on, I feel like some people here on GAF are on edge. The jumpiness and frustration from some of the replies.... my god
Taxexemption
Member
I think my post was clearly coming at it from a New York perspective.
Who the hell is being libertarian? I wasn't taking a stance, I was stating facts. You went way off the rails with your emotional response.
These past few days, I don't know what the hell is going on, I feel like some people here on GAF are on edge. The jumpiness and frustration from some of the replies.... my god
I have this conversation regularly in real life, and the people I argue with are usually otherwise extremely liberal and support lots of big government policies, but at the same time will tactically make libertarian arguments that the homeless deserve freedom not to participate in society in a way that we don't apply to other groups.
I walk by several homeless people and many more tents every time I go to work. I'm mad that anyone thinks its even a question of whether or not we should allow people to live on the streets.
Scotty W
Banned
There are a few things in here that I am not sure how you would justify. Wouldn’t forcing Airbnb’s to open up incentivize owners to avoid that?
I am also not sure what legal grounds you could use to force someone off of the street. Sure, it is sad, but so are alcoholism, smoking, obesity, divorce, infidelity and many other things, but we don’t ban those.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Heads up: I live in a city with LOTS of homeless, too. Full-blown, spread out encampments in public city parks. So you're not the only one who sees/experiences it. It's a complicated subject. There's a lot of mental illness involved and in my city, often the homeless will be a danger to themselves, but more broadly, to the community at large. (Just sign in to your local NextDoor and take a look for yourself, for neighborhood reports of harassment and assault by homeless people... I mean a lot of it is also on the news.)
If you must know, I'm not libertarian about this, at all. I'm not gonna get political, but -- there are real contributing factors for why some homeless stay on the streets. Cops can't do anything (again, coming at it from a perspective of both New York and the city I live in, both of which have seen the number of police and the law enforcement capabilities of police heavily reduced in the last couple of years; both cities have adopted a heavy anti police rhetoric in the past couple of years, so we're paying the price...)
On top of the police being somewhat unable to do anything about it, you have some people that try to claim "autonomy" for the homeless. (As in: a homeless person should remain in the streets if they want to, because they have "autonomy.")
Because of these reasons, among others I'm sure, you generally can't FORCE homeless people off the streets against their will.
So, take your angry emotional energy somewhere else, dude. Specifically, use that energy towards the people that are instituting culture and policies that are making it difficult to get homeless off the streets and get them the treatment and help they need.
EDIT: actually
Scotty W
brought up an absolutely great point in the post immediately above this one. No matter what emotions on any side are, there are all sorts of legal matters to consider...
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Taxexemption
Member
Do you have a right to sleep in front of a doorway? Does your right to sleep on the street supersede my right to walk on it?
Sleeping outside is camping. You don't have a legal right to camp wherever you want for an uninterrupted period of time. Even on public land that is maintained for the purpose of camping you have limited rights to use it, and there is a maximum amount of time you are allowed to camp. All the laws are on the books, you just have to actually enforce them.
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Ionian
Member
This used to happen constantly on a main st. here to homeless people. One dude was also doused and set on fire by a load of scumbags. He was asleep in the doorway of a closed shop for shelter.
Violence was common place to homeless people, groups formed to support them to make sure they were safe. However, incidents still happened by drunken assholes as the volunteers couldn't be everywhere at once.
Sickening shit. Pure and utter fucking SCUMBAGS.
Thankfully with cameras I think they caught the culprits for that and they were prosecuted. Still the dude was set on fire, was massive public uproar over the protection of the homeless.
EDIT: Looking it up again. A link. This was commonplace.
Man doused in petrol and set alight in Dublin
A man was doused in petrol and set on fire while he slept in a shop doorway in Grafton Street, Dublin, early yesterday.
poodaddy
Member
So your solutions boil down to telling people how to conduct their business with regards to landowners who utilize income producing properties as their main source of income, and even going so far as to punish them with additional taxes and fees on top of the unbelievable amount they already get in this business if they can't turn a unit quick enough and get it rented out again?
Another person who assumes all rental owners are rich.....Christ man. You people are squeezing us to fuckin death with all these fees and regulations. Way things are going, you won't have any private landowners soon, it'll all be owned and administered by wealthy Chinese landowners and the US government, and trust me you don't want that. For a look on what that does to property values, have a gander at Canada.
You can not just force private property owners to shoulder the burden of fixing the homeless problem. I get wanting to help, hell I wanna help, but I wanna help in my own way, not by being forced to surrender my property to vagrants for the potential of property damage, vandalism, and illegal drug use and dealings and the violence that comes with it. If you declare this state of emergency and I place four homeless people in one of my rentals, then who pays me for my time? Who covers the cleaning fee? Who covers the inevitable property damage? Who goes to the town council to vouch for me when the neighborhood complains about the drug smells and the loud noise complaints on my property? Who compensates me for my lost equity?
You think you've got it all figured out, but your entire solution to the problem is, help one demographic who couldn't help themselves by absolutely fucking over the demographic who did.
If you don't realize how fucked and ironic that is, then I'm wasting my time.
Ionian
Member
Ah fuck off, look at my link. Who deserves that?
Did he deserve that? Homeless or not? Even camping? Plenty of homeless people (new and old) camped across the city before/during and after the recession at the time. Some next to main roads, this was a public main St that is world famous.
There was one guy that was murdered and came from a rich family. He inherited properties but had mental issues and refused to live in them and preferred sleeping on the St. After the scum couldn't exploit him for more money (they had taken it) they eventually murdered him as they could no longer grift off his wealth.
Get a grip.
EDIT: I worked around these areas, not as a helper. Just my job (nightshift) was located there. It was constant the reports and the good people that spent their nights helping them. You don't CHOOSE that life for no reason.
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
bro why are you making this political when it's a thread about a serial killer killing homeless people
Scotty W
Banned
You are making a few arguments at the same time which are somewhat incompatible.
First you argued that there should be an absolute ban on homelessness. But now you are conflating that with sleeping in a walkway, and also conflating that with a tent city.
We have strayed from the original topic, are the homeless who are being murdered sleeping in doorways or on busy sidewalks? Doubtful. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to sleep in alleys, or like a guy in my hometown, refuse to go into a shelter and freeze to death sleeping in a park bench at -40 C?
Taxexemption
Member
He clearly didn't deserve it. However, this seems inevitable to me in a society where you have a lot of people that are very visibly vulnerable and accessible the way homeless are.
I'm not blaming the homeless. They need help, and letting them live on the streets is not helping them.
Ionian
Member
Brilliant post, I was always advised that I'd be treated like a scumbag as I rented out a house I bought.
I was always fair, went above and beyond with helping even when they are blatantly in the wrong. (An example: "we came home at 3 in the morning and had no key so called a locksmith. You pay!")
Another example, everyone loves a garden. I tell them all keep it the way it is and return it to me as such. When it comes down to some (not all leaving) and you say they didn't look after the property and I'll charge half to fix what I have to pay to fix their neglect? SCUMBAG LANDLORD! BUT WE PLANTED FLOWERS! Just tell them I never asked for flowers, I wanted it back the same minus wear and tear.
Unfortunately for those types, I know their contract backwards. Same one they received in writing as per government law (it's written by the actual government as to their obligations both ways).
I crack a beer can open and laugh when they leave. I always lost out financially but they all seem to think the place wouldn't exist only for them. Nearly always the same. NEARLY. There are decent people that let out properties but there and are pure scum but eventually you do wonder why you bothered being nice.
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Ionian
Member
You're talking out of your ass and from inexperience.
I stated mine. What is yours? Seldom I get this annoyed but you're seriously out of your depth on this topic unless you could explain why you think this way, from your own experience?
ParaSeoul
Member
Move out of big cities with ridiculous rent costs
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
You’re suppose to provide for the homeless not kill them.
MaestroMike
Gold Member
Taxexemption
Member
Would you want your son or daughter to live like that?
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Yup, I'm actually about to in the next couple of months, I hate most things about this city
Ionian
Member
You’re suppose to provide for the homeless not kill them.
People here do try, unfortunately they are amazingly vulnerable.
Capuchin Day Centre for Homeless People
www.capuchindaycentre.ie
This place is famous for it and work on a 'no questions asked' basis. You could be renting and poor but you get the same treatment, solid meals and food packages. The guy who speaks about it (main lad, a monk) is an absolute hero.
NOBODY is ever turned away, no matter your circumstance. Absolute legends.
Ionian
Member
You're really reaching here. Had a cousin that died on the streets after getting hooked on heroin, was even part of a documentary on heroin addiction that was part of a public broadcast.
So let me ask you again, "I stated mine. What is yours? Seldom I get this annoyed but you're seriously out of your depth on this topic unless you could explain why you think this way, from your own experience?".
Can you?
Taxexemption
Member
Do you think living unprotected from the elements outdoors on the street will improve their mental health? What about when they get robbed? I met a homeless guy a few years back who was having trouble getting access to social services because he had been woken up at knifepoint and was robbed of his ID and other belongings while sleeping on the street.
If you don't think living indoors is important, what is?
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Ionian
Member
I give up,
Your post - "I met a homeless guy a few years back who was having trouble getting access to social services because he had been woken up at knifepoint and was robbed of his ID and other belongings while sleeping on the street."
I called you out for experience. Asked yours, well you met a homeless guy a few years ago.
OK, I understand. your experience is that. Fair play to you for meeting a homeless guy. What did you do for him?
I need to head out but will reply in kindness to whatever you post as that is kinda the point. Will be later though.
Taxexemption
Member
In the particular case of that homeless guy I talked to him for a few hours, suggested resources that might help, gave him directions to a place he was trying to find, and gave him money. I brought that up to illustrate that sleeping outside is a safety issue.
I could try to one up you on the experience thing and say "I have family members who were homeless." I didn't respond because I think that is the least valid form of argument, partially because anyone can say whatever they want on the internet, and because it is anecdotal.
You are vulnerable when you sleep outside. That is obvious, we shouldn't let people do that as an ordinary thing even if that is what they want.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
TBH the first thing I thought of was ...
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
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