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[DCharlie]

"That is not my point: fuck-ups of SEL should not doom and gloom PSP or a justification to say that Sony programmers are shitty and untalented which hopefully is handled better by SCE than the way SEL handled PSX."

you've never actually worked for anyone????
Sony are not impressing with their software output, i couldn't give a shit which departments are or aren't fucking up, and i'm sure the general public aren't going "well... that doesn't matter because it's not an SCE related bit of software...'

all they'll see is a shitty interface that doesn't work, a crap implementation of broadband, a GT4 game with no online and think "FUCK! Sony fucking SUCKS!"

Also Pana, what is the amazing software implementation that Sony have done so far? Their online system? Sonic Stage? Online banking? Online GT4? what exactly shows you that they are such accomplished coders???

 

[Panajev2001a]

"That is not my point: fuck-ups of SEL should not doom and gloom PSP or a justification to say that Sony programmers are shitty and untalented which hopefully is handled better by SCE than the way SEL handled PSX."

you've never actually worked for anyone????

I have.

Sony are not impressing with their software output, i couldn't give a shit which departments are or aren't fucking up, and i'm sure the general public aren't going "well... that doesn't matter because it's not an SCE related bit of software...'

all they'll see is a shitty interface that doesn't work, a crap implementation of broadband, a GT4 game with no online and think "FUCK! Sony fucking SUCKS!"

No, I see a GT4 game with ultra impressive car physics, graphics, car modelling and track modelling, cars and tracks variety.

I see Wanda and the Colossus and I say "whoa, some talented programmers, game designers and artists are working there", I see ICO and I say the same thing, I see J&D, J&D 2 and J&D 3 and I say "whoa, these guys are the best of the best", I see a fully online AAA title like R&C 3 and I say the same thing, etc...

I see PlayStation 2 with a functional and responsive interface.

I do not see PSP's XMB as a shitty interface that does not work (from what we have seen so far).

SCE definately did impress me with their Hardware and their Software output.

 

[DCharlie]

"No, I see a GT4 game with ultra impressive car physics, graphics, car modelling and track modelling, cars and tracks variety."

your sony filter is working well - the lack of promised online play from 2 years ago is lost on you. You should buy a PSX! You'll enjoy all the amazing features it doesn't have!

"I see PlayStation 2 with a functional and responsive interface."

fuck me! sell me your PS2!

"I do not see PSP's XMB as a shitty interface that does not work (from what we have seen so far)."

As you say - from WHAT YOUVE SEEN. The PSX interface looks amazing in shots and vids, but it's a piece of shit in reality. The fact that the PSP is based on this does not fill me with confidence....

Saying that, It could run at 4 fps and take 2 months to boot up! you'd still love it as long as sony makes it.

"SCE definately did impress me with their Hardware and their Software output."

4 whole games impressed you, the major one of which again follows the sony patern of promising something they can't deliver. Awesome stuff i admit!

Come on - this is getting rediculous! You PSPenispounders would be all over MS like a rash if they made these fuck ups! This is a fucking joke!

New Xbox multimedia console lacks features

Pana : HA HA HA - They suck!

New Sony multimedia console lacks features

Pana : Welll... it's probably for the best!

 

[Panajev2001a]

"No, I see a GT4 game with ultra impressive car physics, graphics, car modelling and track modelling, cars and tracks variety."

your sony filter is working well - the lack of promised online play from 2 years ago is lost on you.

It kinda is, I prefer getting it this December than waiting: GT3 had no online and I still liked it .

4 whole games impressed you, the major one of which again follows the sony patern of promising something they can't deliver. Awesome stuff i admit!

Most of them ?

Beside missing the online mode in GT4, what other major features were promised in "most" of those games I listed that should piss me off so much ?

Actually more than those four games impressed me... I was just quoting the most impressive ones (I quoted more of 4 games, if you bothered to count ).

DCharlie, let's try to keep this civil... ok ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

New Xbox multimedia console lacks features

Pana : HA HA HA - They suck!

New Sony multimedia console lacks features

Pana : Welll... it's probably for the best!

You remember my initial comments about PSTwo when the HDD was kinda killed ?

They were so positive. Oh so positive.

 

[DCharlie]

"It kinda is, I prefer getting it this December than waiting: GT3 had no online and I still liked it ."

Cool - then that is the EXACT same situation as the PSX!
Oh wow! And Sony promised an updated version ASAP with online play...
the similarity is uncanny!

It's okay though, being such a big sony fan you won't mind paying for the rest of the functions that won't be coming anyways!

Come on, the lack of online play is a source of major embarrasement for a company like Sony.

"Most of them ?"

... "the major one of which"

"Beside missing the online mode in GT4, what other major features were promised in "most" of those games I listed that should piss me off so much ?"

i was siting GT4 specifically, if you check my response.

"Actually more than those four games impressed me... I was just quoting the most impressive ones (I quoted more of 4 games, if you bothered to count )."

I can't count beyond 4.

"DCharlie, let's try to keep this civil... ok ?"

Given the level of utter fanboyism in this thread, it really is becoming more and more difficult....

Just to recap, you have some games as showing the ability of Sony to code. Where is the evidence of good convergence machine coding, user interfaces , online implementation etc... etc...

Good coding is not just games.

 

[DCharlie]

"
You remember my initial comments about PSTwo when the HDD was kinda killed ?

They were so positive. Oh so positive."

yet you made an entire thread making excuses as to why you had to buy one......

"Oh my old PS2 died! have to get a new sleeker one with less functionality!!! SONY ROCK!! REDUCE MY OPTIONS PLEASE!!!!"

 

[Sho Nuff]

DON'T MAKE ME SEPARATE YOU TWO!!!

Dcharlie, go sit in the corner! Pana, I'm calling your parents!

 

[Panajev2001a]

"
You remember my initial comments about PSTwo when the HDD was kinda killed ?

They were so positive. Oh so positive."

yet you made an entire thread making excuses as to why you had to buy one......

"Oh my old PS2 died! have to get a new sleeker one with less functionality!!! SONY ROCK!! REDUCE MY OPTIONS PLEASE!!!!"

You have bad memory: in that thread I said I was buying a SCPH-50001, which I did, and I put the money I got for my PlayStation 2 SCPH-39001 towards a Nintendo DS.

I never said I appreciated that they killed the HDD (all the contrary): I actively use the HDD for PlayStation 2 Linux... how can I say that I want to replace my dying SCPH-39001 with the PSTwo which does not support PlayStation 2 Linux ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

"It kinda is, I prefer getting it this December than waiting: GT3 had no online and I still liked it ."

Cool - then that is the EXACT same situation as the PSX!
Oh wow! And Sony promised an updated version ASAP with online play...
the similarity is uncanny!

It's okay though, being such a big sony fan you won't mind paying for the rest of the functions that won't be coming anyways!

Come on, the lack of online play is a source of major embarrasement for a company like Sony.

Why ?

Are you saying GT4 is now worthless just because it is off-line ?

I can't count beyond 4.

Given the level of utter fanboyism in this thread, it really is becoming more and more difficult....

I am being relatively good .

Just to recap, you have some games as showing the ability of Sony to code. Where is the evidence of good convergence machine coding, user interfaces , online implementation etc... etc...

Good coding is not just games.

I have no example of great convergence machine coding: PlayStation 2 is a convergence machine (CD Audio, DVD-video and games), but it does not go beyond being functional... in that case I do not blame the programming, I blame the GUI designers.

Online implementation ? How about R&C 3 ? .

 

[Pfucata]

Panjev, "CD Audio, DVD-video and games" does not count as convergence. Otherwise, I'd have to count my Sony headphones as convergence too -- since they are speakers you can wear on your head and ear warmers...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Panjev, "CD Audio, DVD-video and games" does not count as convergence. Otherwise, I'd have to count my Sony headphones as convergence too -- since they are speakers you can wear on your head and ear warmers...

Well, it is a step towards convergence... PSOne could not play movies although it had a Hardware M-JPEG decoder (MDEC): it could only play CD-Audio and games.

PlayStation 2 plays CD-Audio, PSOne games, DVD-video and PlayStation 2 games and in Japan they had the BB Navigator available as well and you could count PlayStation 2 Linux.

 

[jarrod]

Actually PS2 was touted as a convergence device early on, possibly being a sound replacement for PCs eventually (net browsing, email, movie/music content distribution, etc)... that's part of the reason MS was spooked into Project Midway.

Funny enough, Sony's initial claims for PS2 sound eerily similar to Nintendo's initial intentions for Famicom. Follow our lead!

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Uhh...
Listening to Pana and DC is funny...
I'm working for the company in question and Pana's feelings about the company are stronger than anyone I work with....You interviewing at Sony anytime soon Pana?

I won't take sides or anything, just make a few statements... Then go back to lurking...

1. I got a PSX discounted for about $250US (for that price it's an absolute steal even with it's problems)
2. It's useless arguing about a company's ability to do something. They either usually make good products or they don't. Unless you work for them you'll never know how products A, B, C, and D arrived on store shelves in their final state.
3. Pana - game programming is pretty straight forward. When comparing programming skill there are tons of other software engineering problems with higher difficulty than the relatively closed systems handled by games. Most of the coolest, most kick ass stuff you see in games today is someone faking something in a really nifty way...
4. To the folks railing on Sony. If you want to test out Sony'd products before you buy and you live in Tokyo you can always go to Mediage in Odaiba. Usually 2 weeks to a month before a product launches you can go there and get you hands on Sony's newest products (unfortunately, usuallly not games and systems)
5. Generally companies with their roots in hardware have two qualities. A) They're quick to churn out new products B) The empahsis on those new product's software isn't as high as it should be. That said, Sony is alot better than most companies out there. The big difference you guys see is that Sony is better at quickly making new hardware products than their competition. So the sample space is generally larger...

 

[kaching]

Now, i'd look at it like this : <snip>

Got it. Now, here's a few things I'd like to point out:

After initial reports that the PSX sold out of its launch shipments to stores, sales apparently tanked and never recovered (suggesting that most people were smart enough to realize that Sony's effort in this case wasn't good enough ). While you waited several weeks for a firmware update, discounts at retail did nothing to restart sales.

According to IGN, there were three separate firmware updates - one in February (2/10), one at the end of March and one that coincided with the rerelease of the PSX under new model numbers in July. Is that accurate? If so, that's quite a bit of effort on behalf of a small userbase that flies in the face off any supposed intent to lie or mislead.

Either way leads to credibility issues, no? If they were foolish and over zealous enough to hype a product with imaginary, idealistic features then it should surely result in serious credibility issues when it comes time to evaluate any future product announcements, no?

Absolutely and, again, never disputed. A botched effort like this tarnishes their reputation/credibility in a *general* sense. But if you want to start to infer what this means for the actual quality of future products/efforts, *specific* details regarding why they failed in this case matter.