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[sonycowboy]

http://news.inq7.net/infotech/index.php?index=1&story_id=28673

Meanwhile, Nanako Kato, official spokeswoman of the Sony Computer Entertainment headquarters in Japan, was careful to cut through the hype created by the Cell Chip announcement.

“The details of Cell announced at ISSCC are based on the full specs of the chip. Cell is the broadband processor used for a wide number of applications, and will be optimized according to the needs of each application,” she told INQ7.net.

Asked to comment on how powerful a Cell processor the PS3 will be able to accommodate, she replied: “The performance of Cell announced at this time may not equal the performance of SCE’s next-generation computer entertainment system. At this point in time, it is too premature to discuss our next system. We will announce the details in due course.”

This seems to open up the possibility (which we've already heard) that Sony's PS3 "may not equal the performance" of the "full spec" CELL processor. You could take this either way, but it certainly seems to imply the possibility of it being less than the "full specs" of the CELL. Of course, with optimizations, the modified CELL is the PS3 could be more appropriate to that application than the standard CELL implementation shown at ISSCC.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

"may not equal " = ps3 "cell" is not powerful as "ISSCC" cell

 

[Reanimated]

Well this was pretty obivous.

My money is on the PS3 version being the 4 SPU version.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

There's no REASON for it to equal that spec. It's overkill to the extreme for a gaming platform.

 

[lexi]

There's no REASON for it to equal that spec. It's overkill to the extreme for a gaming platform.

Yeah, but the more nuclear warheads it can launch simultaneously, the better.

 

[pcostabel]

The performance of Cell announced at this time may not equal the performance of SCE’s next-generation computer entertainment system

This seems to mean the opposite, i.e. PS3 may be more powerful than the announced Cell.
Either way, I think they are just saying that Cell in PS3 could be different, not necessarily faster or slower.

 

[Timedog]

There's no REASON for it to equal that spec. It's overkill to the extreme for a gaming platform.

yeah there's no reason other than having AWESOME graphics, AI, animation, sound, etc etc etc

 

[sonycowboy]

This seems to mean the opposite, i.e. PS3 may be more powerful than the announced Cell.
Either way, I think they are just saying that Cell in PS3 could be different, not necessarily faster or slower.

Taken by itself, but combine it with the comment regarding the ISSCC announcement being the "full" CELL, I got the reverse interpretation.

Again, we just don't know yet. I acknowledged that it could go either way.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Yeah..i take that as, the chip at the confrence isnt the highest powered cell that sony will tailor for the PS3. I guess you can take it either way. At any rate the chip will do fine especially with that insane memory controller should keep that nivida gpu from sitting around idle.

 

[Azih]

I think what it means is that any predictions on how PS3 will perform based on ISSCC are not worth it. Sorry Sony but THAT WON'T STOP US!

 

[Elios83]

It can be interpreted in both ways.
But considering this sentence:

“The performance of Cell announced at this time may not equal the performance of SCE’s next-generation computer entertainment system.

She says that the ISSCC Cell may not equal the performance of PS3 Cell.
If she were hinting the PS3 Cell could be less powerful wouldn't be more natural to say :
"The perfomance of SCE's next-generation computer entertainment system may not equal the performance of Cell announced at this time (ISSCC)" ??
Of course just wild guessing.

 

[Reanimated]

She says that the spec announced at ISSCC is the full spec. If that was the full spec, how exactly does the PS3's Cell go up from there? Maybe it's getting the fullerest spec?

 

[border]

She's most likely speaking in Japanese. So since it's in translation there's not much point going into the semantics of what she said.

 

[Elios83]

She says that the spec announced at ISSCC is the full spec. If that was the full spec, how exactly does the PS3's Cell go up from there? Maybe it's getting the fullerest spec?

Full spec could mean it's the standard spec,the typical version of the chip.
But we'll see in a month time.

 

[Reanimated]

Yes, I must be misunderstanding the definition of FULL.


full


adjective (comparative full·er, superlative full·est)
1. filled to capacity: holding as much or as many as is possible

2. with much or many: having a large amount or number of something
full of mischief

3. greatest in extent: being at the highest degree or largest extent
at full speed
I like my coffee full strength.

4. complete with nothing missing: with nothing or nobody left out or missing, or with no part uncompleted or used
the full complement of staff

5. completely developed: at the end or peak of development
roses in full bloom

6. completely so: having reached or fulfilled all requirements for a position, rank, or description
a full colonel


No, it seems I've gotten it just right.

 

[Any1]

There's no REASON for it to equal that spec. It's overkill to the extreme for a gaming platform.

Hell yeah, it's overkill! Sony is not stupid enough to think us gamers actually care about such trivial things. I don't know about yall but when i bought my first sports car, it had a Chevy 350 in it, pushin around 300 hp. Well that was just overkill too. So i had the dealership tone it down to about 90 hp. I mean come on, the speed limits around hear are 70 mph, so anything that makes it go faster than that is just a waste, right?

 

[Elios83]

Yes, I must be misunderstanding the definition of FULL.


full


adjective (comparative full·er, superlative full·est)
1. filled to capacity: holding as much or as many as is possible

2. with much or many: having a large amount or number of something
full of mischief

3. greatest in extent: being at the highest degree or largest extent
at full speed
I like my coffee full strength.

4. complete with nothing missing: with nothing or nobody left out or missing, or with no part uncompleted or used
the full complement of staff

5. completely developed: at the end or peak of development
roses in full bloom

6. completely so: having reached or fulfilled all requirements for a position, rank, or description
a full colonel


No, it seems I've gotten it just right.

So multi core Cell processors won't exist,the ISSCC model is already TEH Full processor.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Hell yeah, it's overkill! Sony is not stupid enough to think us gamers actually care about such trivial things. I don't know about yall but when i bought my first sports car, it had a Chevy 350 in it, pushin around 300 hp. Well that was just overkill too. So i had the dealership tone it down to about 90 hp. I mean come on, the speed limits around hear are 70 mph, so anything that makes it go faster than that is just a waste, right?

:lol!

 

[Reanimated]

So multi core Cell processors won't exist,the ISSCC model is already TEH Full processor.

Um, I guess you weren't paying attention to the fact that the 8 SPU Cell is the full spec. Number of SPUs only goes down from there.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Hell yeah, it's overkill! Sony is not stupid enough to think us gamers actually care about such trivial things. I don't know about yall but when i bought my first sports car, it had a Chevy 350 in it, pushin around 300 hp. Well that was just overkill too. So i had the dealership tone it down to about 90 hp. I mean come on, the speed limits around hear are 70 mph, so anything that makes it go faster than that is just a waste, right?

Thats not really a good comparison, its different for a computer system, or embedded system such as a console. There is no overkill if there isnt a sufficient workload. And there usually isnt a sufficient workload because it would be wasteful to use the CPU for things a GPU could do, why use store/load cycles if things can be completed locally? Im not sayin the PS3 will be a cut down version, but i could see the reason why it could be cut down. If the PS3 doesnt need the full power why not save the money with a sufficient processor to keep the GPU full, makes sense no? Its a waste of money and power if an overpowered CELL is in the PS3 sitting idle most of the time. Its a big reason why CPU's and GPU's are converging, why bother with an insane CPU if its workload is being cut down by more and more parts that are being integrated into the system. Besides multi tasking of totally different programs there isnt one.

 

[soundwave05]

My personal feeling is this -- Kutaragi will do whatever it takes to make the PS3 noticably more powerful than the XBox 2.

You're talking about a guy who wouldn't compromise the size of the PSP LCD even by a few millimeters.

And no one at Sony is going to challenge Kutaragi, they're going to take a loss upfront on the PS3 anyway, just like they did with the PS2, Kutaragi is probably the next president of Sony and the Playstation brand is too important.

With the PS3 not having a headstart, and Kutaragi being a hardware junkie like he is ... I just can't see Ken resisting the temptation to throw in a few more CELL cores in the PS3 to give the system a decisive performance advantage.

 

[DCharlie]

if having overkill specs is not that important, then where does the Xbox 2 fit (with, say, circa 90 gflops) into this equation?

surely 90 gflops is more than enough right?

At what point does the cpu ability go beyond a level at which it becomes wasteful to have extra power?

"Kutaragi is probably the next president of Sony and the Playstation brand is too important."

Indeed - Cell is either Kutaragi's path way to glory, or he's taking the bullet for getting it wrong.

 

[Vince]

If ISSCC-Cell is the "full" version, what's the 2-way CMP one being used in the Sony|IBM 16TFlop workstations? Just curious...

EDIT: Ohh, this article is definitly first rate, my favorite comment;

And while no one is seriously thinking that the PS3 will be powered by a 4GHz processor

 

[Reanimated]

You're talking about multiple CellS, not the full spec of Cell, smart guy.

Now if you think that Sony is going to cram multiple Cells into PS3, you're an absolute idiot. How many processing threads do you think they're going to be throwing at these developers? :lol Not to mention the fact that a single Cell puts off enough heat to cook eggs. I guess you think they'll be liquid nitrogen cooling this thing...

 

[soundwave05]

You're talking about multiple CellS, not the full spec of Cell, smart guy.

Now if you think that Sony is going to cram multiple Cells into PS3, you're an absolute idiot. How many processing threads do you think they're going to be throwing at these developers? :lol Not to mention the fact that a single Cell puts off enough heat to cook eggs. I guess you think they'll be liquid nitrogen cooling this thing...

I don't what its going to be, but I do think that PS3 will be decidedly more powerful than the XBox 2, simply because of Kutaragi.

 

[Reanimated]

I don't what its going to be, but I do think that PS3 will be decidedly more powerful than the XBox 2, simply because of Kutaragi.

The same guy who created the Emotion Engine?

 

[soundwave05]

The same guy who created the Emotion Engine?

Yeah.

It's also a big difference IMO that the head honcho at Sony's game division is also the hardware architect, not just some regular business suit.

So it becomes more of a matter of pride also.

The corporate culture at Sony's game division is very different from what you see at Microsoft (dominated by suits) or Nintendo (dominated by the software designers).

 

[nitewulf]

well, i'm pretty sure the 8 SPE cell would be tougher to produce in bulk, definitely would cost more per unit. sony might decide to go with a less-than-full spec cpu in order to cut costs and start production now. they do have to get the production underway, soon.
aren't they eating a lot of losses with the PSP? they might want to go with a less risky route for the ps3, as they know that market is assured anyway.
more powerful than xenon? sure.
decidedly more so? not so sure. what do you mean by decidedly, a generational leap?

 

[Azih]

The corporate culture at Sony's game division is very different from what you see at Microsoft (dominated by suits) or Nintendo (dominated by the software designers).

I'd say Microsoft culture is dominated by software engineers (that's the company's core focus and also explains the focus on XNA) and Nintendo is dominated by their own game developers (which is a double edged sword).

 

[Endymion]

You're talking about multiple CellS, not the full spec of Cell, smart guy.

Now if you think that Sony is going to cram multiple Cells into PS3, you're an absolute idiot.

Bookmarks thread just in case

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I don't what its going to be, but I do think that PS3 will be decidedly more powerful than the XBox 2, simply because of Kutaragi.

Yeah, because dude's is also going to stand behind nvidia with a whip and personally make sure that the PS3 GPU outperforms the Xbox 2 GPU.

This sounds more and more like a repeat of the mid-late 90's CPU craze.

 

[thorns]

The corporate culture at Sony's game division is very different from what you see at Microsoft (dominated by suits) or Nintendo (dominated by the software designers).

that sounds like bullshit to me.

 

[Redbeard]

Hype balloon deflating...

More hot air needed...

 

[DCharlie]

can you please tell me what the corporate culture at Sony .jp is like?

Any chance anyone can have a look at my previous questions?

 

[Azih]

Hype balloon deflating...

More hot air needed...

:lol

 

[Reanimated]

Hype balloon deflating...

More hot air needed...

:lol :lol :lol

 

[IJoel]

Hype balloon deflating...

More hot air needed...

:lol

 

[maharg]

Welcome to Project Reality Part 2.

 

[sonycowboy]

can you please tell me what the corporate culture at Sony .jp is like?

Any chance anyone can have a look at my previous questions?

DCharlie or WhiteAce? What's going on with your account? It changes like every 5 minutes. :lol

 

[DCharlie]

an attempt to form a full rainbow of "Ace" user names failed, and i couldn't quite get used to WhiteAce...

 

[golem]

if having overkill specs is not that important, then where does the Xbox 2 fit (with, say, circa 90 gflops) into this equation?

surely 90 gflops is more than enough right?

At what point does the cpu ability go beyond a level at which it becomes wasteful to have extra power?

i get the feeling that next gen will be a battle of GPUs rather than CPUs...

 

[thorns]

if having overkill specs is not that important, then where does the Xbox 2 fit (with, say, circa 90 gflops) into this equation?

surely 90 gflops is more than enough right?

At what point does the cpu ability go beyond a level at which it becomes wasteful to have extra power?

Assuming GPU is going to handle all the graphics work, 90gflops IS plenty enough for physics, AI etc. I will be strictly talking about non-graphics stuff here.

As far as physics is concerned, let's say in a racing game, it is possible to approximate most things to a degree that it is almost indistinguishable from reality, without using much CPU power. Thus, making a realistic physics engine for racing simulators starts to depend on having more real data to work with then raw CPU power.

AI? It is possible to make quite advanced AI with 90gflops, but again it is a lot of work and is more than simply having a lot of power available.

I'm not very knowledgable about animation and how much it is dependent on CPU, so can't help you there.

In the classic game types we have, considering their scope, there isn't that much improvement to be gained from having lots of CPU. However a lot of new things could be done with a lot of CPU power, such as having 1000s of enemies, or having a living, simulated world with complex behaving NPCs etc. All the possibilities are certainly very exciting. How much they'll be realized is a big question, most of the games will most likely be just prettier versions of current gen games. A lot depends on the programming part. CELL having all these SPUs complicates things even further, since it's hard to take full advantage of those in non-graphics context. I find cell very interesting in a scientific computing context, but I'm a bit skeptical about how much of an impact it can have on gaming, especially just in a couple of years.

The xbox cpu is, a mere what 3gflops? And just take a look at the disparency in AI in Halo/Halo 2 vs. other games. As I said, most of the burden is on the programming side, and most companies choose to spend resources on graphics then AI or simulating complex behaviour.

 

[android]

Many of you guys don't seem to realize that Sony doesn't have to total dominate MS and Nintendo in the hardware specs department. They can come in slightly more powerful than MS and the ball is still in MS court next gen. Why would they go with multiple cells if they would only need one to equal MS? I think next gen will be equal across the board for power. Why spend more money per system than you have to? Sony proved to themselves and the other two that power doesn't win the top spot.

 

[Sysgen]

SONY could power the PS3 with a hard bolied egg and it would do just fine. I don't see why SONY needs to compromise profit to make the machine an nth degree better than Xenon. At some point they will look at the cost / performance ration and cap it. I don't buy that they're going to go all out at the expense of increased cost much less profit.

 

[HokieJoe]

Taken by itself, but combine it with the comment regarding the ISSCC announcement being the "full" CELL, I got the reverse interpretation.

Again, we just don't know yet. I acknowledged that it could go either way.

I don't think there's any question that Sony's goal is to have superior graphics to the nextbox/cube offerings. I don't think their goal is to totally leapfrog them- they have no reason to. I mean why should they? They have the #1 console right now, and I doubt that will change nextgen.

If they overshoot the target too far, they'll simply have more money tied up in the hardware than need be to accomplish the same goal.

 

[Reanimated]

SONY could power the PS3 with a hard bolied egg and it would do just fine. I don't see why SONY needs to compromise profit to make the machine an nth degree better than Xenon. At some point they will look at the cost / performance ration and cap it. I don't buy that they're going to go all out at the expense of increased cost much less profit.

Especially when you consider their current financial situation. They're cutting business units left and right to try and stop all the massive losses they've been taking.

 

[doncale]

“The performance of Cell announced at this time may not equal the performance of SCE’s next-generation computer entertainment system.

read what was said here. she said that the performance of the Cell announced at ISSCC may not equal the performance of SCEI's next-generation system.

thus, it is being implied that Playstation3 *could* be more powerful than the Cell processor shown a few weeks ago.

Asked to comment on how powerful a Cell processor the PS3 will be able to accommodate, she replied: “The performance of Cell announced at this time may not equal the performance of SCE’s next-generation computer entertainment system. At this point in time, it is too premature to discuss our next system. We will announce the details in due course.”

Ironically, both the PS3 and the next-generation console of its closest rival, Microsoft, will make use of IBM’s processor technology, though of course the next Xbox won’t be powered by the Cell chip. Microsoft has yet to unveil the specs of the successor to the Xbox, which has been code-named Xenon (and sometimes referred to as Xbox 2 or even Xbox 360). Some of these alleged “official documents” leaked on the Net have claimed that Xenon will be powered by three IBM 64-bit processors (which ironically are supposed to be the same type of chips that power Apple’s G5 PowerMac).

Asked to compare the IBM chips that will be used for the PS3 and Xbox 2, IBM Fellow Kahle replied: “Microsoft announced that it has licensed leading-edge semiconductor processor technology from IBM for use in future Xbox products and services to be announced at a later date. No other details have been disclosed and we cannot compare Cell to any custom work for Microsoft.”

While Cell is a revolutionary architecture that will power different devices, from gaming consoles to workstations to home entertainment systems, excitement over this important technology has to be tempered by the fact that different factors will determine real-world performance and market availability. Though Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are expected to announce the details of their next-generation consoles at Electronic Entertainment Expo in May, what is clear about the PS3 is that it will be part of Sony’s overall home entertainment strategy.

 

[Shogmaster]

OH LORD HAVE MERCY!!!!

 

[Reanimated]

Yeah, you can make things mean just about whatever you want when you take them completely out of context and totally ignore previous qualifying sentences.

 

[kaching]

Yeah, you can make things mean just about whatever you want when you take them completely out of context and totally ignore previous qualifying sentences.

Which is exactly what just about everyone in this thread, including yourself, has been doing thus far. So its pointless for you to single out a specific occurrence of it.