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Splinter Cell 4: Double Agent 360 screens (in-game engine?)
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
Doom_Bringer
Banned
What is with this hate?
All three stealth games are fantastic! Splinter Cell, Hitman and MGS are all very different and they all rock! What is with you people?
All three stealth games are fantastic! Splinter Cell, Hitman and MGS are all very different and they all rock! What is with you people?
Doom_Bringer's spin doctoring said:
Heres what you as an X-bot read into that:
The MGS4 graphics are finished, the engine will not improve.
Heres what he actually said:
This year's trailer focused on visuals.
Next year's will focus on gameplay.
Take off the blinders man, good lord. He in no way stated that work was done on the engine.
Red Blaster
Member
Wow, Doom_Bringer's really stupid.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Somebody is calling Doom_Bringer a Xbot.
This thread is officially destroyed.
This thread is officially destroyed.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Yeah, I think thread is pretty much done for. Thanks a bunch you bastards.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Solo said:
Spin doctoring :lol
I am not an Xbot! I don't even own a Xbox. I think all my posts made perfect sense.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
You know what I think? PS3 fanboys have some crazy ass expectations that are not going to be met. MGS4's graphics engine might improve but it will only improve by a little. The textures are the main problem and that's pretty much it, the rest looks done.
Why is so hard to accept that Kojima Productions got served by Ubisoft Shanghai? Even I am blown away by these screens. Good work Ubi
Why is so hard to accept that Kojima Productions got served by Ubisoft Shanghai? Even I am blown away by these screens. Good work Ubi
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
C+ it is, I guess.
There has been no "serving" on either part. MGS4 could look better, or possibly worse by the end of development. SC4 "screens" are a bit dodgy at this point, and Im positive several are simply CG demos. Point is, we havent seen enough of either title to say what looks better. Wait until E3, and then we can make a preliminary judgement. We havent seen SC4 in motion yet, and weve only seen a very early MGS4 in motion. Save the "serving" for later. My guess? As usual, SC4 will have the edge slightly on the technical level, while MGS4 will kick the shit out of it on an artistic level.
buckfutter
Member
No guyz! Srsly! Kojima toeld me that teh grafix ewngine was finsihed!
The MGS4 tech demo took 4 months, was on uncompleted hardware, and used holdover textures from MGS3. What the hell are you smoking? No game of medium or greater production scale has completed graphics in 4 months. How could you even come to that conclusion?
The MGS4 tech demo took 4 months, was on uncompleted hardware, and used holdover textures from MGS3. What the hell are you smoking? No game of medium or greater production scale has completed graphics in 4 months. How could you even come to that conclusion?
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Solo said:
I think I have seen enough of MGS4, we just have to wait and see what Splinter Cell DA looks like in motion. But yes lets wait until E3 or until Ubi releases more media.
buckfutter said:
PS3 devkits were always next gen. The cell was there, it had 512 ram, and a 7800 GTX. The final one will only offer greater bandwidth, a higher clocked Cell and RSX (7800 GTX).
You cannot prove that the textures were from MGS3 and we also don't know how long Kojima productions have been working on MGS4.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
PG2G said:
It is, but spring lasts until the 21st of June, so...
Lakitu said:
Take some of your own advice. We all know dark is an MGS fan, and he suggested SC should change. If I say the converse, then MGS fans go nuts. They have what they like, we have what we like. It seems that the two camps are mutually exclusive. I doubt I would be fond of changes that an MGS fan would want with SC. I know MGS fans don't want their franchise messed with - so step off.
dark10x said:
I'm sure the same can be said for those of us who don't care for MGS.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
TAJ said:
But do we know how many final dev kits Sony had been shipped to the developers? Do we know long does it take to move the program from beta to final hardware? Two months is nothing...
I never said I wanted it to be changed in such a way. Good lord.
I don't want SC to be like MGS. There are many other things, unrelated to MGS, that SC would benefit from. Wide open environments with a final goal that can be achieved through a number of ways, for example, would improve the experience a lot. Like I said, the older Thief games would be a great example.
Why are you so unwilling to give them the benefit of the doubt while, at the same time, posting CG renders of Splinter Cell and claiming them to be totally possible?
buckfutter
Member
Doom_Bringer said:
You mean besides the fact that Kojima said during E3 2005 that they had finished the design document and were just about to start production? Or the fact that we have a direct quote from him saying that the graphics will get better? Why do these quotes mean nothing, and yet comments about the thematic focus of the next trailer are obviously conclusive proof that he walked into the office the morning after TGS and went "Well guys, now to start the physics!"?
Also, from the original MGS2 trailer, the game increased in resolution and had minimal AA added. In addition, shadows are present in the game everywhere they were present in the original trailer, the Ray deck sequence still appears in cutscene form in realtime, and the Tanker escape was cut at the last minute because it was a trial and error sequence which Kojima claims was simply not fun. Also, the scene with the tens of marines watching the projected Ray images was originally included as a joke, and yet was so popular that it was incorporated into a gameplay sequence.
To say there was no improvement is quite naive.
Littleberu
Banned
The graphics won't be better guys, end of the story. Doom_Bringer says so.
dark10x said:
Chaos Theory had multiple routes to explore to get to the same points. Did you play it? Obviously for game design reasons, things can't be "too wide open". And what of MGS? From what I have played, things weren't wide open at all in my experience. Or are you suggesting its good for SC, but not for MGS? I don't know if I understand the "multiple ways to achieve goals" idea. If you have someone you have to eliminate - how many different ways can it be achieved? And is there such a thing in MGS? If not, why do you feel for a call to change SC, but not MGS? The series is just fine. You don't like it that much - fine. There are a lot of us who think it's just fine, isn't broken - and doesn't need to be necessarily "fixed".
Thief wasn't all "that" open either. There were multiple routes to get to the same area, but for the most part, it was very similar IMO. Things can only be "so wide open" anyhow - it's a videogame afterall.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
>>>But do we know how many final dev kits Sony had been shipped to the developers? Do we know long does it take to move the program from beta to final hardware? Two months is nothing...<<<
I would expect there were many final devkits then, considering that the first few batches of pressed retail games had already been sold. The PS2 was older at that time than X360 is now.
I would expect there were many final devkits then, considering that the first few batches of pressed retail games had already been sold. The PS2 was older at that time than X360 is now.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
buckfutter said:
The development for MGS4 was well underway before E3; Kojima said that they didn't want to show it at E3 because he predicted there would be a lot of realistic FPSs shown off on the PS3 hardware and that would make his game look bad.
Technically I don't think Kojima knows what he is talking about. He said there were no differences between Xbox and PS2 and to him PS3, X360 and PC are all equal in power. We would need to talk to his programmer for that info.
Again MGS4 graphics look complete to me. The only think that could improve is the textures. Looks pretty fucking amazing for a second gen PS3 title.
How can you even talk about the resolution? This is total BS. The resolution was always the same and I don't think there is any AA in MGS2. You are right about the shadows part.
The Metal Gear Ray deck sequence was taken out damnit! Don't lie!!! I just beat the tanker part two weeks ago!! The final sequence present in the game is nothing like the E3 one and it runs at a lower frame rate.
Finally I think the marines watching Ray was always part of the game. The frame rate in both MGS2 and MGS3 went down big time, especially during gun fights
buckfutter
Member
Doom_Bringer said:
Haha, can I see a source on this?
Doom_Bringer
Banned
buckfutter said:
Can't find it but it was right after E3 in one of the interviews.
This has nothing to do with MGS. MGS is a story based experience with a very different type of stealth gameplay. They focus on individual areas and allow you to play with them in extreme detail. Each gameplay map for MGS is loaded with things to do. It's a very different kind of game, so let's not even bother with comparisons. I don't want either to duplicate the other.Dr_Cogent said:
Splinter Cell isn't designed to be like that. What I disliked was the fact that it felt like you were forced to approach each situation as the developer intended while navigating thin areas in rather small maps. There is no map even remotely close to the size of, say, the Warehouse or Bank in Thief II. Those were MASSIVE single maps that took hours to fully explore when you first attacked them. You really never felt as if you were just following a path. I love the controls, setting, visuals, and feel of SC...but the mission designs always felt so linear. I think it could be so much better.
Imagine a mission where you infiltrate a facility that is off in a remote location. You have an entire field with woods around this place as well as the security to deal with. You can explore all around the structure and there are plenty of possible entrances you could make. All doors, windows, tunnels, etc. would be completely functional with nothing blocked off. The surroundings and everything within that large structure would be rendered on one map. In addition, a siginficantly enhanced AI system would add much to the experience. It would not necessarily require a complete redesign either. Simply change the way enemies react and concentrate on making the AI more "fun" to play with.
Just a quick example. I simply want to see the size and scope of the game fleshed out. The Unreal Warfare engine always felt so limited. You could FEEL that each map was just a small chunk surrounded by a skybox. Hard to explain, but it's something the game conveyed to me.
A broad approach, with a new engine, and a different approach to AI would be a lot of fun.
I'm interested in discussing this kind of thing and it angers me a bit that you assume that I'm simply bashing the game or trying to bring MGS into this. It has NOTHING to do with that. NOTHING.
Actually, Doom, you are quite incorrect here.
The original MGS2 trailer was running in PS2's field rendered mode (same Ridge Racer V and many other PS2 titles). It was using a half frame buffer with an effective per frame resolution of 640x224. The final version ran with a full frame buffer (which is why you can force progressive scan with the blaze adaptor). The game was displaying a 640x448 image 60 times per second. The vertical resolution doubled from the original to final.
Once again, why are you acting so skeptical towards MGS4 while giving Ubi the benefit of the doubt? You accept those renders as realtime shots...yet believe that MGS4 could never improve (despite using some older assets from PS2). Foolish.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Hey guys, where's the SC4 thread?
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Funky Papa said:
It grabed a beer with Snake
Doom_Bringer said:
Uh, nope. Have you even played MGS2? It has only extremely slight framerate hitches during action. Im talking like a 60FPS to 50FPS drop. Still runs extremely well. If youre talking about the X-Box version, then youd be correct, as that was a shoddy port. The PS2 original runs as close to flawless as any game out there. MGS3 I will not argue about. There were huge framerate drops, and I really didnt like the game period, even as a hardcore MGS fan, so I wont baselessly defend it.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Funky Papa said:
I got up at 6:00 this morning, watched the 1up show, and read the beginnings of this thread. I KNEW this would happen.
Sam Fisher and Snake can co-exist.
No, it does not. Absolutely does not.
I know this because I still play this game on a regular basis. Yes, I love it that much. I very recently replayed it once again after grabbing the JP version for cheap. 95% of the time, the game will not drop the framerate in any sort of gun battle. It occurs during the fight with Fortune, for certain, and it can occur when fighting Vamp for the last time. Also, the storage room (with the flour) on the tanker can see a framerate drop when the secondary screen appears and flour particles are active. Either LOADS of destruction must be occuring...or the secondary "clear" screen needs to be active. Otherwise, it holds.
Now, on XBOX...that wasn't the case. Bad port.
MGS3 does not hold, however. It basically runs, oddly enough, like a Splinter Cell game. A base of 30 fps with slowdown (occasionally severe, such as in the swamp).
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Doom_Bringer
Banned
dark10x said:
ok. But the frame rate in MGS3 is bad
Doom_Bringer
Banned
dark10x said:
ok fair enough but they need to lock the frame rate at 60 FPS no drops!! that's what I want.
scarybore
Member
dark10x said:
I feel the same way. I love the Splinter Cell games, even Pandora Tomorrow which gets a lot of shit here, but it is incredibly linear in its execution. Your scenario of how a Splinter Cell game could play is so much more appealing than what they are currently doing, and hopefully when they fully shift to next gen development we get something similar to this. They just need to expand their horizon a bit.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
These new screens give me all new hope for next-gen Ubisoft. GRAW and SC4 = WOW!!!
I'm sure MGS4 will run very much like 2 and hold 60 fps the vast majority of the time (more than 95%).Doom_Bringer said:
What I DO doubt is that this new Splinter Cell game will even hold a constant 30 fps. I'm honestly expecting a ~30 fps game with tearing. Surely you aren't expecting 60.