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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

Nobody made a thread about Dreamhack?

Samurai you slipping bro. ;b

Anyways some great matches today and TY almost lost 2-0 to Bunny only to come back each time.

It felt so good seeing a TvT after so long.
 
I'd make it but it'd be a lazy job. I'd just link the wiki with the bracket and title it Dreamhack SC2 lol. Lets wait for our bro Samurai who does the real threads.
 

Syf

Banned
It's settled. Counting on you, Samurai

༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ give dh thread ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ
 

Zen

Banned
We’d like to share our current thoughts and gather more detailed feedback from you on the current state of HotS balance.

PvT
Following the balance patch and then the Season 2 map update, we’re seeing that this matchup has gotten much better. However, we do believe the matchup is still slightly in favor of Protoss. Whether this is actually the case or another balance adjustment is needed remains in question.

ZvT
This matchup may have shifted slightly in-favor of Zerg recently. While we believe full army vs. army-play is fine, Zerg players seem to be getting to the later stages with an advantage more often than not. We’re investigating whether we can make a slight tweak earlier in the game to keep Zerg economy from scaling too quickly.

We believe ZvP is in a good place with a lot of diversity.

While we don’t currently believe that we need to take action hastily, we’d like to continue discussions with you and prepare well-tested changes, if they’re needed. There’s not a clear problem, and we may not issue a balance patch at this time, but we’re constantly on the lookout for signs that we need to get a balance test map going.

With that said, we have a couple of proposed changes that we could test. Please keep in mind, as always, this is an open discussion and nothing is even close to final. We do not yet have a balance test map.

Option 1:
- Terran infantry level 2 upgrade costs down from 175/175 to 150/150.
- Terran infantry level 3 upgrade costs down from 250/250 to 200/200.

The main thought behind this option is to allow Terran to pressure both Protoss and Zerg a bit more, so that they can keep up in army strength throughout the game. As you can see, saving 25/25 per upgrade at level 2 isn’t huge, but because it affects the core Terran army, we believe it will be fairly big in-game.

Option 2:
- Remove the transformation servos upgrade.
- Allow Hellions to transform to Hellbats when Hellbats are enabled with the armory.

This option addresses the concern that PvT is trending better than we expected, and ZvT worse than expected. At this point, we’re fairly certain that Protoss isn’t struggling against Terran (which runs contrary to pro feedback we’ve been receiving), but we’re also receiving pro feedback on ZvT that indicates we might want to have a bigger change lined up.

We saw the strength of not having this upgrade for the transform in the early HotS beta. However, since then, Hellbats have had their damage reduced and require the blue flame upgrade to be at their max strength. The main cool factor of reverting this upgrade is: being able to save the initial Hellions that players use to harass vs. not being able to do so will have a huge impact on the rest of the game. This means that players who are capable of microing well will be rewarded heavily.

Again, we want to hear what you think as we explore the possibilities. Thank you very much for your feedback.

cool!
 
I don't get the Servo's change at all since Terran rarely build hellions in TvP and usually fail when making hellbats in TvZ. Terran can already get 3/3 so much faster than Zerg, not sure why they'd make it easier for them.
 

Aaron

Member
Neither solve the muta problem so it's pissing in the wind for tvz, especially when the strongest terran effort lately is mainly going thor / tank / widow mine. They should add the medivac speed boost to vikings. At least give them a chance against mutas and phoenixes instead of being completely useless.
 

Zen

Banned
Would you still need factory tech to unlock the hellbat form?

- Removed Transformation Servos upgrade
- Changed Hellion/Hellbat transform requirement to Armory

Wait, huh, you could never build hellbats or research the upgrade without the armory.
 
I love Nexus Wars (esp. when I'm drunk) and Left 2 Die. Never tried Mafia, what is it?

It is like a party game. Bunch of people assigned various roles with factions.
Factions are like town, mafia etc. Specific roles like doctor and serial killer. Doctor is town aligned and serial killer is a neutral evil role.

The role/faction have a goal to win. Like town must eliminate the bad guys like the mafia and neutral evils. Jester is a neutral benign role and must be lynched during the day to win.

Lynching is done during the day where you may vote to kill off one person. At night you can use the powers each role has. Like the doctor can protect someone from death at night whereas the serial killer can attempt to kill on person.
 

Zen

Banned
Yoshi mode was engaged, sorry about that. As much as I defended the muta ball in last seasons maps, it is absurdly powerful now in the new maps.
 

Aaron

Member
Yep. If you don't cripple the zerg in the early game as a terran you are fucked. As a terran, you need to be in an entirely higher weight class of skill to beat a zerg. They buffed the mutas so much for zvz, where they're barely used anyway, that it wrecked other match ups.
 
Something that's been surprising me is how little Terran have been pressuring Zerg after Hellions right now. Zerg's right now are delaying Baneling speed so much lately. Most Zerg's Baneling Nest's I've seen lately have been finishing around the same time as Spire and Baneling speed much later after that. Been waiting for more Terran to stop at 6 Hellions and then do a big Marine push with medivacs almost out and just kiting Banelings without speed.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
How's this thread going, oh, looks like balance would be solved if you couldn't just 1a entire clumps of shit into shit gg

cool game Blizzard

No really how are things going, I barely have watched any SC2 at all or even followed anything
 

Aaron

Member
zerg: mutas and swarm hosts win everything.
protoss: at least we still totally own the terran.
terran: last chance to see.
 

Zen

Banned
Something that's been surprising me is how little Terran have been pressuring Zerg after Hellions right now. Zerg's right now are delaying Baneling speed so much lately. Most Zerg's Baneling Nest's I've seen lately have been finishing around the same time as Spire and Baneling speed much later after that. Been waiting for more Terran to stop at 6 Hellions and then do a big Marine push with medivacs almost out and just kiting Banelings without speed.

In much the same way that Terrans figured out a lot of zerg all ins (by getting a siege tank, or even skipping it lolz), I feel like zergs have figured out a lot of early aggression from terran, and zerg macro in general is so much better than it use to be.

But maybe we have just gotten complacent.
 

Aaron

Member
I feel as the game stands terran can't do enough damage to zerg early game as long as the zerg isn't playing way too greedy, or is just lousy. Queen and zerglings while using choke points will keep terran damage to recoverable levels. Even bunker rushes aren't doing what they once did.
 

Syf

Banned
It is like a party game. Bunch of people assigned various roles with factions.
Factions are like town, mafia etc. Specific roles like doctor and serial killer. Doctor is town aligned and serial killer is a neutral evil role.

The role/faction have a goal to win. Like town must eliminate the bad guys like the mafia and neutral evils. Jester is a neutral benign role and must be lynched during the day to win.

Lynching is done during the day where you may vote to kill off one person. At night you can use the powers each role has. Like the doctor can protect someone from death at night whereas the serial killer can attempt to kill on person.
Sounds interesting, I'll give it a try.
No really how are things going, I barely have watched any SC2 at all or even followed anything
Protoss isn't totally dominating anymore, so there's that. But there's only four terrans in the code S round of 32 (well, three now), so there's that too. There's a design patch coming that will allow hellions to transform into hellbats as soon as you have an armory, which might help terran early game. Overall though the game still feels stagnant and badly in need of a major meta shift, at least imo.
 
There's a design patch coming that will allow hellions to transform into hellbats as soon as you have an armory, which might help terran early game. Overall though the game still feels stagnant and badly in need of a major meta shift, at least imo.

From my perspective as a mediocre player but avid watcher of the game, PvP and ZvZ are terribly boring matchups, and seem fairly frequent vs previous years. Late-game Zerg has been really anemic lately it seems, too, lots of local minima where they get trapped and spend a lot of time at Muta or Muta/Corruptor due to strong Phoenix play, and also how strong late game Protoss is versus Broods (nothing is more depressing than watching Z flail against Oracle + Tempest + Mothership).
 

Zen

Banned
I feel like the game has tones more range than Wings of Liberty did at this point, and keep in mind, Brood War was like one build/composition per matchup at all times.
 
From my perspective as a mediocre player but avid watcher of the game, PvP and ZvZ are terribly boring matchups, and seem fairly frequent vs previous years. Late-game Zerg has been really anemic lately it seems, too, lots of local minima where they get trapped and spend a lot of time at Muta or Muta/Corruptor due to strong Phoenix play, and also how strong late game Protoss is versus Broods (nothing is more depressing than watching Z flail against Oracle + Tempest + Mothership).

ZvZ sucks because of how efficient mass Roach is. I still don't get Spores doing insane damage to bio making Muta's useless outside of clearing Overlords. PvP is decent whenever it goes to 2+ bases. Going Muta/Corruptor early in ZvP is fine until Protoss gets Archons, where they need to immediately switch into either mass Swarm Hosts or Roach/Hydra/Viper.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Sounds interesting, I'll give it a try.
Protoss isn't totally dominating anymore, so there's that. But there's only four terrans in the code S round of 32 (well, three now), so there's that too. There's a design patch coming that will allow hellions to transform into hellbats as soon as you have an armory, which might help terran early game. Overall though the game still feels stagnant and badly in need of a major meta shift, at least imo.
The 1a was in regard to mutas actually this time.
I feel like the game has tones more range than Wings of Liberty did at this point, and keep in mind, Brood War was like one build/composition per matchup at all times.
BW wasn't that bad, but there was a ton more in the execution of a strategy and I feel like the small tweaks to builds felt like they affected more (probably not true).
 

Syf

Banned
Never forget

iIAA87V.jpg
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Never forget
This is truly the 1a hell SC2 deserves.

I don't understand how such a thing is possible. Where is 1 BL, 1 Muta, Nydus, bane bombs from overlords? Fucking disgusting.
Surely anyone with half a brain can see half of those are useless and drop some else where on the map, jesus fuck.
 
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