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Stem cells reverse defects in mice embryos
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MaddenNFL64
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Crazy wizardry is what that is. Devil work.
Thank Jesus Christ our Lord, and Savior that Bush doesn't support these Satanists.
Thank Jesus Christ our Lord, and Savior that Bush doesn't support these Satanists.
Even worse is that the excess stem cells created by in vitro fertilization are being discarded instead of being used because of the current asshole in office. So much medical progress to be made, so much potential wasted because of ignorance and fear.
The US scientists of today may not have the threat of death hanging over their heads, but I'm sure many of them are beginning to realize how Galileo felt way back when. It's ridiculous. It's 2004. It's history repeating itself.
The US scientists of today may not have the threat of death hanging over their heads, but I'm sure many of them are beginning to realize how Galileo felt way back when. It's ridiculous. It's 2004. It's history repeating itself.
You don't want Christopher Reeves buying up all the stem cells with hs Superman royalty money and then transforming himself into some sort of super-villain, do you? That's right, keep this evil science banned to keep us safe. Crippled people are handicapped stickers and crosswalks to get by. PEACE.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
Do you think the medical community as a whole really want full blown cures for major diseases or that world leaders really want to deal with the overpopulation that will result when people die much less often? I don't think they do, unfortunately, and it's these sorts of powers that be (including the religious right) that will make these sorts of medical breakthroughs much more difficult to pull off.
I'm for the idea of finding cures for diseases and stuff, but I'm against mankind playing God. It's a delicate balance. And I'm also afraid that science gone wrong could very well be the end of us.
I'm for the idea of finding cures for diseases and stuff, but I'm against mankind playing God. It's a delicate balance. And I'm also afraid that science gone wrong could very well be the end of us.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
open_mouth_ said:
Um, what? Do you actually believe what you just typed? Do you even have the faintest idea what stem cells are, how they can be obtained, and the possibilities they offer?
clipunderground
Member
MaddenNFL64 said:
:lol
I read a long article about Lysekno years back. Fascinating stuff, but I remember almost admiring the nutty bastard when he decided that math and science shouldn't mix after a math error in his early days left one of his normally very vague "experiments" open to actual review and inevitable criticism.Hitokage said:
Almost more amazing than Lysenko's opportunism was the post-Revolution period just before he became famous when the differing schools of thought in biology inevitably ended with one side trying to pull the other down with charges of reactionism. It happened in *all* the sciences in Soviet Russia, but the whole charade of scientists trying to discredit each other by trying to dress up their theories of biology as being Marxist-ier-than-thou is just bizarre to read about. Thanks to the stuff that went down in the Communist Academy in the decades after the revolution it's no surprise that by the 70s the only really exceptional academic disciplines in the Soviet Union were in classical history and other fields where the subject matter could in no way be seen in the modern social/political terms of Socialism/Capitalism. Of course when you remember that geneticists would have career-ending arguments about whether or not their theories about heredity in fruit-flies contradicted Marx I guess there weren't many immune fields of study.
Ahh, google comes up with my fav Lysenko quote re: his own personal "scientific method":
"In order to obtain a certain result, You must want to obtain precisely that result; if you want to obtain a certain result, you will obtain it .... I need only such people as will obtain the results I need."
Oh yeah, the stem cell thing is cool too.
open_mouth_ said:
WHO THE HELL IS PLAYING GOD????
Do you and the rest of these freaks think that its SICK and DISGUSTING and "playing god" when people get organ transplants?
OMG they have parts in them FROM ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. WHAT A SICKO! THEY'RE FRANKENSTEIN. KILL THEM KILL THEM. THERE GOING TO HELL FOR NOT DYING THE WAY GOD INTENDED THEM TO.
And if you have to worry about anything "being the end of us" its the moron in Washington that wants to attack every country before he has the facts, hasn't increased security at most of the nuclear plants in this country, and has enough nuclear weapons in just America (NOT COUNTING POLAND) to blow up this Earth 50 times over. You heard that right 50 TIMES OVER.
And you people are worried about stem cell research being the end of us....unless your a disease then you shouldn't be worried about it.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
It's naive to think that many people in power don't place more importance on sustaining that power (whether it's political or wealth or whatever) than they do on the good of mankind. Ever watch movies like the Medicine Man? Their themes ring true in the real world.
Overpopulation? Fine. But there are better, more realistic, ways of controlling population. How about reproduction restrictions. Yup, China's policy will eventually apply to the world. It's inevitable.open_mouth_ said:
That said...what's all this "playing God" bologna? PLEASE don't act like one of the uneducated morons who considers something wrong b/c they don't fully understand it. That's what Bush is doing, preying on the ignorance of the masses who have no clue what stem cells are, or how exactly they can/can't be used. I don't see anything in modern medicine that would lead us to play god. And even if there was, who cares? Man created god, we can play him all we want. I'm only concerned when science is purposely used for malice, like chemical weapons and stuff. But otherwise, we "play god" when we cure diseases or even when we take Robitussin to ease a cold. Is it that big of a deal choosing the color of your kid's eyes, or other things like that? What's the concern, that people might start getting what they want? I see no problem with that. That things could go wrong? Well, things can go wrong in regular child birth, we don't outlaw that. The government shouldn't be policing us on things like this. Especially since it's the government (the military) that is responsible for the most malicious uses of science in history, and probably the ones who'd use cloning and other things like that for wrong. PEACE.
open_mouth_
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NWO said:
I'm not talking only (or even directly) about stem-cell research and I'm sorry if it came off like that, but about that *type* of medical science that many people deem morally and religiously wrong. I'm talking about down the road when things like human cloning and pre-birth adjustments (among other things) become realities. Just because we can do something, should we? Are there certain limits that we shouldn't dare challenge? If we do, what will be the repercussions? Healing and saving lives is one thing, but making exact duplicates or adjustments of creation are issues that are much more complicated and, to me and many others, are akin to "playing God"
You're absolutely right. I didn't mean it "as a whole" as I said, but more as the majority of those individuals with high levels of financial interests invested in certain types of medicine (as opposed to full-blown cures).
I'm all for stem cell research, cloning and whatnot. But I think we need a lot more testing.
The only problem I have with it is that if someone were to try to clone a human right now, it is extremely likely that the clone would perish before birth, and the vast majority that make it to birth would have severe health problems. This is the case now with all animals we've cloned.
But yes, this is one of the issues that I disagree with Bush.
The only problem I have with it is that if someone were to try to clone a human right now, it is extremely likely that the clone would perish before birth, and the vast majority that make it to birth would have severe health problems. This is the case now with all animals we've cloned.
But yes, this is one of the issues that I disagree with Bush.
open_mouth_ said:
I guess all those physicians and other scientists working 12-15 hours a day trying to find a cure for cancer and Alzheimer's (among other things) are just pretending to be working. Or maybe if they found something, some government bureaucrat would swoop in and steal the evidence and suppress the idea. If anything, I think that self-interest would speak against such a conspiracy theory; think about it: if a single scientist or group of researchers came up with a cure for cancer, sure, lots of people would lose lots of money-- but those people would be filthy stinking rich. In other words, I think that the same motives that you assert would cause suppression of these ideas would necessarily have to motivate scientists as well to some degree; I don't think they'd keep the lid on such a discovery for these very same reasons.
Now if you're insisting that there's some vast governmental/industrial conspiracy to suppress medical discoveries, threatening those who make the discoveries with death somehow, then maybe you and MIMIC need to have a little talk...
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
Loki said:
I agree that there are many "good" people like those looking for these cures for either A) the good of humanity or a loved one B) fame or C) wealth... However, there are forces either working against them OR forces going out of their way to make it harder (not easier as it logically and morally should be) for these scientists to discover cures. Imagine a concerted effort by the greatest scientists/minds in the world to overcome the most devestating diseases/ailments known to man (aids, cancer, etc.)... cures would be reached much, much sooner. In conclusion, I think all the apathy by talented groups or individuals with the means to make a difference is a telling sign of the overall lack of importance placed on finding cures for these major diseases (rather than finding medicine to delay death and increase revenue). It's not just paranoia on my part--it's just the way things are.
Lysenko's policies is responsible for the Ukraine famine of the '20s (well, Stalin's collectivization procedures helped too), and an inspiration to the Great Leap Foward famine of China. Both cases involved morbid cases of cannibalism and a result of tens of millions of deaths. Quite a legacy.
open_mouth_ said:
It doesn't matter if they do or not, even if stem cells cures Parkinson, Alzheimer and a host of other diseases down the line, extending human lifespan won't stop a new host of disease to appear, either from advanced old age, pollution, bad genes or good od germs.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
With these stem cells I made myself a kick ass robot in Cyborg Justice
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open_mouth_ said:
Yeah, but how do you come to the conclusion that there's "apathy"? There are thousands of scientists working day and night trying to find cures for these diseases. Just go do research on any prominent university's research labs, or medical school/hospital labs, and you'll find that to be the case. I just can't imagine what would give you that impression, really.
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