Super Mario Bros. 2
- Thread starter Fantasmo
- Start date
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
This page has a nice summary of the changes that were made to turn DDP into SMB2.
http://www.classicgaming.com/tmk/smb2_ddp.shtml
http://www.classicgaming.com/tmk/smb2_ddp.shtml
bobbyconover
Member
Yeah, totally. Bring back playable Toad. He has really been getting the shaft lately!
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
bobbyconover said:
Yes. Whomever it was that decided not to include both Toad and Toadette in Mario Power Tennis as a playable characters needs to be fired.
M64DS should have had Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Yoshi as playable characters IMO (I'd say Peach instead of Yoshi as well but she gets kidnapped and the whole point of the game is to rescue her). Since when is Wario a good guy?
It's wishful thinking but I'd like to see Mario 128 feature Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad as playable characters again. And bring back the fire flower and the suits too damn it!
Yea, I always wondered how epic Mario would be if Mario 2, 3 and World were COMBINED into an uber-adventurelike quest.
Imagine if Wart, Bowser and his Koopa Kids, and Smithy (or someone else since Smithy was kinda dumb even though SMRPG ruled) were all trying to take over the world, and each section of the game played similarly to parts 2, 3 and World and even had a few combined worlds where the different baddies might be against each other... with an explorable Mushroom Kingdom to boot?
It'd be unoriginal, derivative and yet undeniably awesome, exactly what Nintendo loves to do anyway. The combinations of enemies and gameplay styles would be limitless and it wouldn't feel forced like a forced Star/Shine fetch quest. How freaking cool would that be?
:EDIT: In 3d of course.
PS - Let's forget Mario's RPGs for a moment for the sake of clarity.
Imagine if Wart, Bowser and his Koopa Kids, and Smithy (or someone else since Smithy was kinda dumb even though SMRPG ruled) were all trying to take over the world, and each section of the game played similarly to parts 2, 3 and World and even had a few combined worlds where the different baddies might be against each other... with an explorable Mushroom Kingdom to boot?
It'd be unoriginal, derivative and yet undeniably awesome, exactly what Nintendo loves to do anyway. The combinations of enemies and gameplay styles would be limitless and it wouldn't feel forced like a forced Star/Shine fetch quest. How freaking cool would that be?
:EDIT: In 3d of course.
PS - Let's forget Mario's RPGs for a moment for the sake of clarity.
Just imagine a whole set of levels where Mario had (and couldn't lose) the cape.
Or an entire mission where he could be a Hammer Brother?
How about a few Mario Sunshine Acapella levels or FLUDD combined with the desert hills of World 2 in Super Mario 3?
Shy Guys and Koopas, a return of Mallow, Yoshi levels... hell, why not a teamup with a character or two from old-ass Nintendo games?
Or an entire mission where he could be a Hammer Brother?
How about a few Mario Sunshine Acapella levels or FLUDD combined with the desert hills of World 2 in Super Mario 3?
Shy Guys and Koopas, a return of Mallow, Yoshi levels... hell, why not a teamup with a character or two from old-ass Nintendo games?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Yes, but have you ever sung along?Apple Jax said:
Dadadadadadadadadadadadada DA da Su-per Mario 2 Su-per Mario 2, Su-per Mario Brothers 2! Bobobobobobobobobobo
Mario baddies could do with a look more personality than they have.
Example of what I mean are Wind Waker's Moblins. Just watching them guard a room is awesome. Seeing them go from Guard to Alert mode is even cooler. Even the dungeons in Zelda, especially Wind Waker, ooze this sort of character and it would be welcomed to Mario.
Mario's characters could use a little bit of that character although they should stop short at giving it to a water gun!
Example of what I mean are Wind Waker's Moblins. Just watching them guard a room is awesome. Seeing them go from Guard to Alert mode is even cooler. Even the dungeons in Zelda, especially Wind Waker, ooze this sort of character and it would be welcomed to Mario.
Mario's characters could use a little bit of that character although they should stop short at giving it to a water gun!
It was a dream, dude.
Off-topic:
I was thinking about this the other day: Wouldn't it be awesome if they move BACKWARDS with gaming? If they got all nostalgic and say.. Mario moved back to being 2D (same with the Zelda series). I'm sure they could make it INCREDIBLY huge as well as come up with interesting ways to utilize 2D in ways they never could...
I dunno... I'd dig a BIGGER, nostalgic, 2D game.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Golden Darkness
Member
explodet said:
Pretty much. He gets forgotten while the Shy Guys, Snifits, Ninjis, Pokeys, Bob-ombs, and the infamous Birdo appear in later Mario games.
You know, if Nintendo didn't convert Doki Doki Panic to the American SMB2, these guys would have never been incoprated into the Marioverse.
Helena,
I think most of us realize that a game series does not have, nor need continuity or a canon, especially something like a Mario game. I started hearing about this canon nonsense with Halo recently. Everytime I hear that word I cringe because I know somebody is going to start griping or screaming a moment later over a few changes. Does Mario even have a canon? lol!
I've played enough games and sequels that change is welcomed and keeps things fresh. Continuity is overrated, it tips game design to old and stale, like sweatsocks.
A good example is the Megaman Battle Network games. From 17+ action games to RPG is a heavy switch. Personally I enjoyed it and was glad to see Megaman get a nice change
I think most of us realize that a game series does not have, nor need continuity or a canon, especially something like a Mario game. I started hearing about this canon nonsense with Halo recently. Everytime I hear that word I cringe because I know somebody is going to start griping or screaming a moment later over a few changes. Does Mario even have a canon? lol!
I've played enough games and sequels that change is welcomed and keeps things fresh. Continuity is overrated, it tips game design to old and stale, like sweatsocks.
A good example is the Megaman Battle Network games. From 17+ action games to RPG is a heavy switch. Personally I enjoyed it and was glad to see Megaman get a nice change
Naked Snake
Member
The only Mario game I didn't play.
junkster said:
Yeah, honestly. Who gives a shit about canon in a series that is largely devoid of plot, unless you're that much a rabid fanboy that you honestly think that if game X isn't a perfect copy of Game Y and provides marginal plot progression in the process, then it's unplayable garbage...
Swordian said:
Sounds like a plan although we should have told him before all the games were ported/remade for the GBA.
junkster said:A good example is the Megaman Battle Network games. From 17+ action games to RPG is a heavy switch. Personally I enjoyed it and was glad to see Megaman get a nice change
Yeah MM has many seperate series. But I'm not talking about continuity storywise I mean it gamewise. Doki Doki Panic /=/ a Mario game and shouldn't be counted as part of the main series. Normally people don't support hackjobs but whatever~I'da rather the real SMB2 been brought to the US even though it's pretty much a retrash of the first game it is still a real Mario game and a fun one at that.
Kobun Heat
Member
I have a book I'd like you to read, might change your mind.Helena said:
So gamewise, Mario isn't allowed to go into territories?
Mario64 and SMS don't center around stomping at all, instead Shines and Stars. They also retain platforming, but SMB2 had platforming also.
SMB3 retained SMB2's ability to carry enemies, namely the Koopas. World retained the carrying enemies in the form of Koopas, Goombas, and a few others. SMB3 also kept the fact that you can re-enter and exit pipes over and over, but put the timer back in to keep things speedy.
SMB2 Jap did come to the US in SMB All Stars, so what exactly are you griping about?
Do you not like 4 playable characters, plucking vegetables? New enemies? Wart as the bad guy instead of Bowser? Bombing walls, digging? Varied gameplay instead of run to the right?
Btw, Plucking vegetables would be easier to implement in 3d than hitting a block from underneath.
Mario64 and SMS don't center around stomping at all, instead Shines and Stars. They also retain platforming, but SMB2 had platforming also.
SMB3 retained SMB2's ability to carry enemies, namely the Koopas. World retained the carrying enemies in the form of Koopas, Goombas, and a few others. SMB3 also kept the fact that you can re-enter and exit pipes over and over, but put the timer back in to keep things speedy.
SMB2 Jap did come to the US in SMB All Stars, so what exactly are you griping about?
Do you not like 4 playable characters, plucking vegetables? New enemies? Wart as the bad guy instead of Bowser? Bombing walls, digging? Varied gameplay instead of run to the right?
Btw, Plucking vegetables would be easier to implement in 3d than hitting a block from underneath.
PkunkFury
Member
It's almost a shame they turned Doki Doki Panic into SMB2 instead of releasing it on its own. Had they released it, we would have one more great franchise to look forward too, their would probably have been sequals, a 3D update on the 64 or cube, character inclusions in Super Smash brothers, etc... Doki Doki Panic had the ingredients of an awesome franchise.
At the same time, however, I understand releasing it as a mario game in the states. The Lost Levels was so similar to the original Mario (and so much more difficult) that I doubt casuals would have cared much. Mario 2 was unique and intrigued a lot of people. I think it helped carry Mario fandom until SMB3's release far better than Lost Levels would have.
At the same time, however, I understand releasing it as a mario game in the states. The Lost Levels was so similar to the original Mario (and so much more difficult) that I doubt casuals would have cared much. Mario 2 was unique and intrigued a lot of people. I think it helped carry Mario fandom until SMB3's release far better than Lost Levels would have.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Yeah. I'm split between happiness that this added a lot of new things to the "Marioverse", and curiosity about what might have been if DDP had gone on to be a parallel platforming franchise of its own. Doki Doki Dokart, anyone? I wonder what Luigi would look like today?Golden Darkness said:
It's a shame those game mechanics haven't been used again. Sure later on Mario could pick up shells and certain other things, but nothing like being able to sit on ALL the enemies and toss them about. Early on some of the extras in Super Mario Advance led people to believe it was going to be a significantly different game using the same gameplay and graphics, but... not so much.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Actually, I'd argue that Doki Doki Panic / Super Mario Bros. USA has heavily influenced the Mario games. Keep in mind that Super Mario Bros. USA (our SMB2, aka Doki Doki Panic with changes) was released for the Famicom in Japan after the release of Super Mario World on the Super Famicom. It was very successful, and certain design elements did reappear in later Nintendo Mario games.
* The "pluck & toss" ability is a prominent part of the Game Boy Donkey Kong (DK '94), and reappears in Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
* Luigi's fluttering jump reappears in many games... now, it's true that Luigi had a different style of jumping in the Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2, but the floating/wiggling feet aspect didn't really come into play until the release of Super Mario Bros. USA. Luigi's had a special high/far/flutter move in several games so far (including all the GBA rereleases and Super Mario 64 DS).
Let's not forget the Princess's floating move in Super Smash Bros. Melee! Heh.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I'd agree that there are influences, but things like modifications to Peach and Luigi that were later reused are certainly "A major in Mario, with a minor in DDP" to make a bad analogy. Good catch on Donkey Kong, though, I'd never made that connection before.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Also, Shy Guys starting popping up in Mario games after the release of Super Mario Bros. USA. Pokey, Bob-Ombs, and Ninjis did appear in SMB3 or SMW, but there is a good chance that SMB USA is the game that led to Shy Guys being the major enemy in Yoshi's Island.
Or not.
radios shipping overview
Member
My favorite in the series, definitely.
Kobun Heat
Member
It's telling how all the most endearing characters from Doki Doki Panic were folded into the Mario series. Even while they were making the game (which to the best of my knowledge used main characters created by/for Fuji Television), Miyamoto commented that it felt like they were doing a Mario game. It was by the Mario team, Miyamoto worked on it more than he did the "real" Super Mario sequel.
If they couldn't use the original characters in the US, then it just makes even more sense to replace them with Mario. The other thing is that SMB2 hit Japan in 1986; by the time the US was ready for a Mario sequel graphic quality had really improved on the system and they needed something more spectacular. SMB2's fantastic graphics (which hold up quite well even today) really helped the NES' image.
If they couldn't use the original characters in the US, then it just makes even more sense to replace them with Mario. The other thing is that SMB2 hit Japan in 1986; by the time the US was ready for a Mario sequel graphic quality had really improved on the system and they needed something more spectacular. SMB2's fantastic graphics (which hold up quite well even today) really helped the NES' image.
If Nintendo hadn't taken Doki Doki Panic and incorporated it into the Mario universe, Mario and his Universe would be so different now. Look at what the real sequel to Mario was supposed to be. It was just more of the same. If it hadn't been for SMB2 USA breaking the mould, we'd still be playing the same game over and over with little improvement. The only things extra Mario had in SMB3 Japan were Plants that came out even if you were next to them, poisoned mushrooms and pipes you jumped up into.
Personally, I enjoyed SMB2 back in the day and still find it a nice change. In fact, the other day I loaded it up in my NES and played all the way to the last room. (Where I promptly died my last life and ended my game. Still, back then I could only dream to make it that far without a Genie.) It was fun. I for one am glad all those DDP elements made it into the Mario universe.
I always wondered what Wart would look like in 3D though. I'm still hoping for an epic Mario 3D adventure that took place in all the environments from the first 4 games (Maybe some of Yoshi's Island.) and included both Bowser AND Wart as enemies. They team up to take out the Mario team once and for all.
It's only recently that Nintendo has begun to acknowledge their past and started bringing back elements that had been gone for years..
In Mario 64 DS the Super Mushroom comes back after 12 years on hiatus. Mario, Luigi AND Wario all get a chance to become Super big again. And in the upcoming New SMB, it happens again.
In Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, there's an entire lab in the Hooniversity where you get to test out all the old ? Blocks. There are also some retro underground type levels hidden throughout the game.
Also in 64 DS, the Balloon Mario makes a comeback. Now if only they had kept the Raccoon Tail instead of the winged cap.
Mario Tennis has a retro Mario Bros. court that looks oh-so-cool.
Mario 64 DS, Yoshi regains the ability to make eggs and throw them.
Add to that all the remakes on the GBA and you can see Nintendo is all about pleasing us nostalgic fans. (Actually, I wish they'd release some Classic NES versions of SMB 2 and SMB 3. The Advance versions of them are too much sometimes, and SMB 3 was just plain screwed up.)
I look forward to seeing what else Nintendo has in store for us Mario fans.
Personally, I enjoyed SMB2 back in the day and still find it a nice change. In fact, the other day I loaded it up in my NES and played all the way to the last room. (Where I promptly died my last life and ended my game. Still, back then I could only dream to make it that far without a Genie.) It was fun. I for one am glad all those DDP elements made it into the Mario universe.
I always wondered what Wart would look like in 3D though. I'm still hoping for an epic Mario 3D adventure that took place in all the environments from the first 4 games (Maybe some of Yoshi's Island.) and included both Bowser AND Wart as enemies. They team up to take out the Mario team once and for all.
It's only recently that Nintendo has begun to acknowledge their past and started bringing back elements that had been gone for years..
In Mario 64 DS the Super Mushroom comes back after 12 years on hiatus. Mario, Luigi AND Wario all get a chance to become Super big again. And in the upcoming New SMB, it happens again.
In Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, there's an entire lab in the Hooniversity where you get to test out all the old ? Blocks. There are also some retro underground type levels hidden throughout the game.
Also in 64 DS, the Balloon Mario makes a comeback. Now if only they had kept the Raccoon Tail instead of the winged cap.
Mario Tennis has a retro Mario Bros. court that looks oh-so-cool.
Mario 64 DS, Yoshi regains the ability to make eggs and throw them.
Add to that all the remakes on the GBA and you can see Nintendo is all about pleasing us nostalgic fans. (Actually, I wish they'd release some Classic NES versions of SMB 2 and SMB 3. The Advance versions of them are too much sometimes, and SMB 3 was just plain screwed up.)
I look forward to seeing what else Nintendo has in store for us Mario fans.
MrPing1000
Member
"The average brother was changed to Mario"
Its Official Nintendo doesn't like black people
although maybe they tried to redeem themselves here
Its Official Nintendo doesn't like black people
although maybe they tried to redeem themselves here