Support NeoGAF

[Mejilan]

This isn't exactly a "YAY I BEAT TOS CONGRATULATE ME THIS GAME RAWKS" thread. I'm very curious about ToP. I've played through about half of the game using the English fan patch, but frankly, I can't stand playing games that way and I can never finish them. And it's not likely to come out here in English in any form at this point, sadly.

I would GREATLY appreciate it if someone who's played through both games could take some time to inform the rest of us how exactly ToS and ToP are linked. I know enough about both games to recognize that ToP takes place long after ToS, possibly eons later. I do believe that ToP takes place in the newly reunited world that Lloyd creates in ToS. I also believe that the name that Lloyd gives to the Great Kharlan Tree is revealed in ToP... Ygdrassil? Interesting, naming it after Mithos. Also, at the end of ToS, in the sky of the new world, you see two satellites... are they the old planets of Sylvarant and Tethe'ala (which I thought were now gone) or are they its new moons? I seem to recall something about moons in ToP, but...

Derris Kharlan. That's mentioned in ToP too, no? As well as Heimdall. Dhaos. Who exactly is he? Are any of the ToP characters distantly related to any of the ToS ones?

Thanks in advance!

 

[AniHawk]

Well... Martel is still guarding the Yggdrassil Tree in Phantasia from what I heard.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Well, I think I remember seeing Sylvarant and Tethealla listed as the names for the two moons.... although that's probably just a linkage in name only. They probably decided "Hey let's name the moons after our old separate worlds!"

That one ninja child you help out, forgot his name, is a descendant of Sheena (his last name if Fujiyabashi, too.)

Spoiler

oh, and Dhaos.... if you don't want me to spoil the ending, then don't continue reading these spoilers. Dhaos is an alien from another world, where magic is plentiful, and mana is in decline. He came to get a mana seed to save his world. So he's not some evil dude who's trying to rule the world or anything: He's just trying to save his own world.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, I think I remember seeing Sylvarant and Tethealla listed as the names for the two moons.... although that's probably just a linkage in name only. They probably decided "Hey let's name the moons after our old separate worlds!"

That one ninja child you help out, forgot his name, is a descendant of Sheena (his last name if Fujiyabashi, too.)

Spoiler

oh, and Dhaos.... if you don't want me to spoil the ending, then don't continue reading these spoilers. Dhaos is an alien from another world, where magic is plentiful, and mana is in decline. He came to get a mana seed to save his world. So he's not some evil dude who's trying to rule the world or anything: He's just trying to save his own world.

Delete the "s" and you're in business.

 

[AniHawk]

Spoiler

The tree's name is Yggdrasil. Very given to all Phantasia players. I can't explain much about Yuan, he sorta fades into the background in the final moments. Not too positive about Krato's Cruxis comment either. *Hmm, is Yuan halfelf? XD

Now for some fun details that theortically link this to Phantasia. It's about 1000 years before Phantasia takes place even. Let's see:

Shihna is Suzu's ancestor (Both share the last name Fujibayashi and Shihna's chief outfit is what Suzu wears)

The Eternal Sword, Flamberge, Vorpal blade. It was thanks to Lloyd's pact about humans being able to use the Eternal Sword that Cless is able to use it as well a millenium later in Phantasia.

The ending, the combination of Sylvarant and Tethe Alla in theory is Aselia (I think thats the name of the planet Phantasia takes place on) There's also mention of about the two moons named Sylvarant and Tethe Alla in Klarth's library in Phantasia.

Derris Kharlan. This was supposedly the place where ToP villian Dhaos originated from.

Yggdrasil Tree. The mana tree Aselia depends on, with the goddess Martel watching over it.

Toize Valley Mine. It's believed that the door leads to the Morlia Gallery

Ymir forest/Heimdall/BUSHBABY: Both are in present day Phantasia, and both inhabit elves that hate halfelves.

That's all I can recall for now.. There are naysayers about this, but for all we know, Tales Studio probably rewrote Phantasia canon.

There we go.

 

[kiryogi]

Well, I think I remember seeing Sylvarant and Tethealla listed as the names for the two moons.... although that's probably just a linkage in name only. They probably decided "Hey let's name the moons after our old separate worlds!"

That one ninja child you help out, forgot his name, is a descendant of Sheena (his last name if Fujiyabashi, too.)

[spoilers] oh, and Dhaos.... if you don't want me to spoil the ending, then don't continue reading these spoilers. Dhaos is an alien from another world, where magic is plentiful, and mana is in decline. He came to get a mana seed to save his world. So he's not some evil dude who's trying to rule the world or anything: He's just trying to save his own world. [/spoilers]

You ignorant little... Suzu is not a guy! (And yeah, supposedly Shihna is Suzu's ancestor) And Dhaos is from Derris Kharlan But the thing about ToS to ToP is iffy according to some Tales followers, but considering all the hints/clues dropped, you'd think it is.

 

[Mejilan]

Well, I think I remember seeing Sylvarant and Tethealla listed as the names for the two moons.... although that's probably just a linkage in name only. They probably decided "Hey let's name the moons after our old separate worlds!"

That one ninja child you help out, forgot his name, is a descendant of Sheena (his last name if Fujiyabashi, too.)

[spoilers] oh, and Dhaos.... if you don't want me to spoil the ending, then don't continue reading these spoilers. Dhaos is an alien from another world, where magic is plentiful, and mana is in decline. He came to get a mana seed to save his world. So he's not some evil dude who's trying to rule the world or anything: He's just trying to save his own world. [/spoilers]

I mentioned that there would be major spoilers in the title. Spoiler tags are unnecessary. Thank you, that's cool. Yeah, I guess those satellites I saw are the new moons. And they named 'em after the two old worlds. That's fantastic.

From what I understand, Dhaos may not be hugely evil, but he doesn't give a shit about the ToP world or its inhabitants, and caused thousands to die by his actions and apathy. That's bad enough. Lloyd found a way to save his worlds without destroying others. Dhaos... well, didn't.

 

[belgurdo]

Didn't Dhaos fight the humans because they attacked him first?

 

[Mejilan]

Thanks Kir, Ani. It seems obvious that the games are directly linked, from what I understand and what's been posted here. On what basis can it be definitively denied?

 

[kiryogi]

Apparently ToP: Narikiri Dungeon 1 would be all nulled with some of the things in ToS. I never played it personally and I don't know about having a GBC game being canon rather than just some odd gaiden :Shrug?:

Belgurdo: No, he was fighting because of the humans usage of mana. (The Magic Cannon at Midgard for example) Dhaos is supposedly a pretty deep char, sadly I never got to read novels or listen to many of the drama cds. (Though I do have rips of the Drama cds..)

 

[Eric-GCA]

I guess Dhaos is just like Mithos then. Its too bad Kratos probably isn't around anymore to kick some sense into him.

 

[Mejilan]

Hmmm, Dhaos is from Derris Kharlan? Is that confirmed? I thought DK was already a pretty dead world when ToS takes place. So Dhaos shows up a 1000 years later and his world is only in decline? Odd.

The GBC game, the one that stars the twins? I understand that takes place a relatively short while after ToP... Though I don't know anything about it beyond that.

 

[kiryogi]

He's definitely from Derris Kharlan. And yeah it stars the twins...

 

[Eric-GCA]

Yeah, thats the odd thing, if Dhaos IS from Derris Kharlan, then that means his world (which was supposedly a ball of huge mana) somehow is even worse off than The new combined world of Sylvarant/Tethealla.

 

[kiryogi]

Heres a little something I'm borrowing from a fangirl in my channel: (and screw spoiler tags, its already a spoiler thread)

Here is what happens with ToS-ToP-ND1:
(I'm not quoting anyone, but I will put it in a quote to make it easier for others to quote since I notice SOMEBODY doesn't seem to care about spoiler colors -_-;.)
Quote:

That great war some 4000 years ago messed up the Great Tree Kharlan and also killed Martel (who was actually just a girl, not a goddess). Martel is perserved in the Tree's Great Seed, and her little brother spends the next 4000 years trying to ressurect her at the cost of many lives. He brings the world called Derris-Kharlan uncomfortably close to Sylvarant and Tethe Alla because he thinks that's what she wants.

Sylvarant and Tethe Alla have mana issues all this time; there's not enough mana to go around for both of them. In order to save both plants, Lloyd and Collet use the Eternal Sword to combine the two planets into one and to send the Great Seed back down to the combined planet.

Here are maps of Sylvarant and Tethe Alla, and here is a map of Aselia (ToP's world)
I'm sorry that none of the maps are good quality, but they will have to do.
-Look at the lower-right quarter of Tethe Alla. During the combonation, that continent (and probably the island above it that is 1/3 mountain) rotated roughly 90 degrees counter-clockwise and drifted a little northeastward (to put it a little lower the middle of the map). This leaves Ymir Forest, Trent Forest, the village where the elves live, the Moria Gallary, and the surrounding mountain ranges where they are in ToP.
-Franor (aka Fenrir or Freezekill) is already the right shape! ^_^
-most other things involve combining contenents and are less obvious, but I'm sure you can see them

Tabitha (and android, who was, if I'm not mistaken, created for the sake of housing Martel's spirit, but it didn't originally work) catches the Great Seed as it comes down. Martel's spirit, along with the spirits of all the girls who were sacrificed in vain for Martel's sake, goes into Tabitha and the Great Tree Kharlan is replanted. The combination is neither Martel nor Tabitha; she is a new entity, she is immortal, and she becomes the guardian of the newly replanted Kharlan. Her name is still Martel though. Lloyd renames Kharlan to Yggdrasil (the name the little brother went by; it's his and his sister's last name.)

Here is The Gap; stuff happened in this interval that has yet to be explained to us, but hopefully there will be a game, a novel, an audio drama, or something based on it. It hasn't even been stated how long The Gap is, but it's agreed that it's at least 4000 years. Some people prefer to say it's more like 10,000 years. At some point Derris-Kharlan seems to have gotten a Great Tree (also named Kharlan, but it's not the same one that was renamed as Yggdrasil) and a reliance upon it. Its guardian is named Norn.

After the gap, there's a war between two countries on Derris-Kharlan. One of them is developing a magic-science weapon, and they fire it against the other. Millions of people are killed, and Kharlan is seriously damaged, which will potentially kill the rest of the planet (lack of mana). Dhaos, the leader of another country, goes to the planet that was created from combining Tethe Alla and Sylvarant (called Aselia) because they have a healthy Great Tree (Yggdrasil). He can get a Great Seed from Yggdrasil that can be used to either repair the tree on Derris-Kharlan or plant a new one there.

But a stupid country called Midgard is creating a magic-science weapon just like Palace Gudra (country on Derris-Kharlan) did. Its existance is harming mana and Yggdrasil. He tries to talk sense into Midgard at first, but it doesn't work. Finally he gets violent and starts a war against them. A group of warriors defeat him, and he time travels away.

The same warriors (in some timelines at least x_X; thank time travel) save Yggdrasil. 150 years later (thank time travel) Dhaos tries again. He doesn't want to fight them (and he thanks them for saving yggdrasil) but they kill him.

Martel (the guardian of Yggdrasil) manages to create a Great Seed out of her power and out of Dhaos's corpse. (In the original version of the game, she also sacrifices herself, but in the remakes she doesn't.)

 

[Mejilan]

So is Dhaos an elf then? DK was the elven world originally, wasn't it? I'm a little confused about what it really is/was.

DK has awesome music though, both parts.

Edit - just read that Kir, thanks. Sylvarant and Tethe'alla were originally one world, however, right? She fails to mention that in her summary. IIRC, Mithos divided the world into Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.

 

[djtiesto]

I beat the game too tonight... All I can really see is Yggdrasil being the tree, and I know in TOP you get a Derris Emblem as well, that you need to prevent getting teleported around Dhaos's castle. There are some interesting references to the Star Ocean games in TOS... Kratos = Clatos Village (SO1), Iselia = Iselia Queen, Sylvarant = continent in SO1.

Oh yeah, interesting to see Kevin Gifford (Fenneku Gitsune) name in the credits, especially since I'm a big fan of his site (video-fenky.com for those that don't know)

 

[Mejilan]

ToS had some FF7 and Titanic references too, not references to prior ToS heroes, Pac Man, Klonoa, etc. Wahooo!!! Hweeeeee!!

Edit - Cool... ToP had a Derris Emblem too? Man, I love it when developers do cool shit like that in their pseudo-sequel/prequels.

 

[Golden Darkness]

I believe that summary was written before the English version was released.

 

[kiryogi]

yar..