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Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
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GrayFoxPL
Member
Yup. And Kuma is Bear named "Bear". Kuma II actually. XD
Dem T4 endings.
They get bad rep because they took in game models and assets. Oh well T4 engine is amazing imho. They couldn't recreate Steve's flowing Hawaiian shirt even in T7
.In Kaz T4 ending I still don't know if Kaz controlled the Devil or Devil only made him think that he controls the Devil.
Kaz's T7 ending will be terrible, I can smell the exorcism shit from a mile away.
I'd like to think Kaz controls the devil with his own will. Because that's badass.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Numb, you should give SC5 a go. THREE random characters to mess with~! =D
Irony is i am a super character loyalist outside of Tekken to the point i don't even usually look past my guy.(Pot,Dedede,Lisa,Algol,Hilda,etc)Never play others.
Got Dengeki recently Soup. Haven't decided who to play yet. Who you playing?
SquirrelSoup
Member
Currently it's Yukina/Shana with Accelerator assist. Getting mauled in ranked though. There's this Taiga player that beat me up no end and this one other guy with an 98% win rate <.<;
Having a hard time of it. Fun game though.
Shana is pretty cool.
Was thinking of playing Shizuo and her maybe other dudes aswell.
But why does baskeball girl seem like the coolest even looking like that? She is amazing.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Tomoka is fantastic. Her setplay is nuts.
If you like being aggressive i'd recommend Kirito or Rentaro though. Both of them are completely insane in Trump mode. And Trump can last you long enough to kill someone if the opponent is slow to react. =3
So, after messing around with T7 for a few months, I guess I'll post up my impressions/opinions.
I'll start with some general observations first. This is a Tekken game, not significantly different than the Tekken games before it. I say this is a good thing because Tekken to me is simply a blast to play.
When I've dropped and pickup Counterstrike over and over throughout the years, there is always a boost in graphics and a few, new play mechanics to adjust to when I've come back, but in the end the gameplay is still 80%+ the same CS I've always loved. But if I want a radically different gameplay experience, I simply play a different FPS, not beg for CS to become something other than what it already is.
Not unlike other competitive activities such as football, basketball, etc., Tekken sequels (other than spinoffs) should stay predictably the same for the most part, and never try to re-invent its gameplay foundation. When Namco is ready to turn things upside down with a ton of great, new fighting game ideas, they can simply make a new fighting game altogether to show it off. Keep Tekken as it is with no pressure to re-invent it.
As for T7 itself, even as a glorified beta release the game is addictively awesome. Before I describe what I like, here are things that I don't care for: there are glitches that no doubt will be addressed in the home release are annoying, like occasional micro-freezes and weird hitbox detection issues. The music is terrible (TERRIBLE), which surprises me considering all the fantastic stage soundtracks the series has produced over the years. Also, while I appreciate the tactical design aspects of pretty much every stage, several of them are simply boring aesthetically (the multi-break Aztec stage for instance).
Another thing that I'm mildly not of fan of is that each player can choose their own side because of they have their own screen. For a Tekken game, that causes issues because of how sidestepping from full crouch works. If I'm using Kazuya on P1 side and get the opponent to block a f+4, he is forced to FC and I have a slight frame advantage. Normally, because he is on the P2 side, he is only able to side step right from FC since you can tap up from full crouch but never tap down. As a Mishima, Kazuya tracks MUCH better vs. opponents who SSR than those who SSL. In T7 this benefit is accentuated because of the general SS nerf. However, now that people can choose either side, both me and my opponent may technically be on the P1 side, which screws up this strategy. So far, these are my only issues.
What makes the T7 interesting as a sequel to me is how they took the basic Tekken formula and tweaked a number of things in an effort to shift the power/weakness balance of many gameplay elements. The easiest example to point out of this is the delay added to not only side step/walk evasion, but consequently to sidestep attacks as well. It appears that the delay is only 1-frame, but other than attacks with built-in lateral dodges that aren't affected by the change (like Jin's u/f+2), you can feel it as you play, and it is pretty jarring at first.
But over time, it becomes clear that the nerf doesn't make SS/SW worthless by any means. What it's done is make chaining them rapidly together far less effective than before - a decent player is still able to make a well-timed dodge work very well. This system change discourages evasion spam to avoid 80% of a characters move list like we could do before, and instead forces you to think about executing a single dodge vs. certain incoming moves a the general proper time. More effort, yes, but it works for and against both players.
On thing that this change has done, at least this early in T7s life, is allow a character to offensively use more linear moves than before. What I mean is, with opponents stepping and sidewalking less, it is possible to throw out moves on occasion that you otherwise avoided because how easily people avoided them. Yes, they are still dodge-able, but you will at least make contact (block or hit) a lot more often compared to past releases.
The throw break change is something I'm almost neutral on. I was above average with throw breaks in the past, but this adjustment (which was probably done to assist weaker players defensively) seems to be a bit too hard on the throw break system. It does accentuate the skills of a grappler like King since he can mix up all three breaks (which I like), but for other characters, they lose a decent strat against many players. Perhaps Namcoi could've reduced throw damage and kept it like it was before, or keep its current form, but reduce the throw break window since you can now mash out a 1 or 2.
Getting up or defending from oki after being knocked down is significantly easier. Holding back when trying to rise no longer backrolls, but slides you into blocking position. The toe tap (KND d+4) rolls you back to safety now. The get up spring kicks for most characters (KND 3+4 now instead of KND b+3+4) has almost no start up animation and comes out super fast with high priority. Floats are mostly gone. They even added a new low, knock down kick to the face down, feet away position (SLD). Namco obviously wanted to help weaker players get on their feet more safely.
However, oki still works well in T7. While tougher than before, floats are still possible with some setups if they flinch. Certain ground positions, which occur for example when spiking juggles with some TTT2 bound attacks at the end will leave them in the SLD position that is still slow to attack from. And with no spring kick or toe kick option, that grounded opponent is easier to harass with your oki. Understand though that they instantly recover standing after the spike enders if they tech back with the controller, but the frame disadvantage for them is high.
Other oki observations... hopping over tech rollers still works well for some setups. Also, if the opponent falls in PLD position (face up, feet away) or FCD position (face down, feet towards) when using the new tech backwards slide, they rise with their back towards you for a few frames, allowing you to get in free back attacks when near a wall. So while oki is tougher to execute consistently, it can still effective in many situations that you plan (or guess) correctly.
Speaking of the wall, the biggest change is that you can't get the Bound replacement (Tail Spin) to work once they go splat. Getting the Tail Spin to come out just before they reach the wall is one option, but in the end some combos going towards the wall will do about the same damage whether you got a TS! or not.
This is because the damage scaling in juggles is SEVERE. The more hits you add, the quicker the later hits will do only slight scratches to the opponent's health bar. Overall, your best bet is to overload the front end of your combos with the power hits first. This means that the first and second hits after launch should be very strong when possible, because after that you don't hurt them with the later attacks nearly as much.
The overall balance in this game is better than TTT2 in part because of this system change if only because every character can do 40% - 50% juggles now. Another positive buff compared to TTT2 is that since (most) juggles aren't as impactful as the strongest ones in the last game, poking is a lot more relevant. The balance between the two offensive methods is really nice to experience in this game.
The most prominent new features, Power Crush and Rage Arts, are not dominating in how they affect matches. One might even say their underwhelming at this point, particularly Power Crushes. Perhaps characters need a couple of them because right now, some are a lot more worth trying than others. Hwoarang's is solid, and Lili has a really good one (a launchable mid that juggles), but if PCs were too effective then people would spam them in a way that throws off the game's balance.
Rage Arts are strong, so they definitely force the player with an advantage to turtle up a bit towards the end of a round when expecting it. However, I like how at least being in Rage mode only increases the damage of regular attacks by a tiny bit. Comebacks are more skill-based as a result.
There is other T7 stuff, both subtle and obvious, that could be commented on. Things like as how trading hits now causes CHs (a cool buff for strategic frame counters) and the various changes each returning character received. But I'll leave it there and repeat that I've had a blast playing the game, and I look forward to the home release which will undoubtedly bring us even more fun game play elements and system/character adjustments to play with.
I'll start with some general observations first. This is a Tekken game, not significantly different than the Tekken games before it. I say this is a good thing because Tekken to me is simply a blast to play.
When I've dropped and pickup Counterstrike over and over throughout the years, there is always a boost in graphics and a few, new play mechanics to adjust to when I've come back, but in the end the gameplay is still 80%+ the same CS I've always loved. But if I want a radically different gameplay experience, I simply play a different FPS, not beg for CS to become something other than what it already is.
Not unlike other competitive activities such as football, basketball, etc., Tekken sequels (other than spinoffs) should stay predictably the same for the most part, and never try to re-invent its gameplay foundation. When Namco is ready to turn things upside down with a ton of great, new fighting game ideas, they can simply make a new fighting game altogether to show it off. Keep Tekken as it is with no pressure to re-invent it.
As for T7 itself, even as a glorified beta release the game is addictively awesome. Before I describe what I like, here are things that I don't care for: there are glitches that no doubt will be addressed in the home release are annoying, like occasional micro-freezes and weird hitbox detection issues. The music is terrible (TERRIBLE), which surprises me considering all the fantastic stage soundtracks the series has produced over the years. Also, while I appreciate the tactical design aspects of pretty much every stage, several of them are simply boring aesthetically (the multi-break Aztec stage for instance).
Another thing that I'm mildly not of fan of is that each player can choose their own side because of they have their own screen. For a Tekken game, that causes issues because of how sidestepping from full crouch works. If I'm using Kazuya on P1 side and get the opponent to block a f+4, he is forced to FC and I have a slight frame advantage. Normally, because he is on the P2 side, he is only able to side step right from FC since you can tap up from full crouch but never tap down. As a Mishima, Kazuya tracks MUCH better vs. opponents who SSR than those who SSL. In T7 this benefit is accentuated because of the general SS nerf. However, now that people can choose either side, both me and my opponent may technically be on the P1 side, which screws up this strategy. So far, these are my only issues.
What makes the T7 interesting as a sequel to me is how they took the basic Tekken formula and tweaked a number of things in an effort to shift the power/weakness balance of many gameplay elements. The easiest example to point out of this is the delay added to not only side step/walk evasion, but consequently to sidestep attacks as well. It appears that the delay is only 1-frame, but other than attacks with built-in lateral dodges that aren't affected by the change (like Jin's u/f+2), you can feel it as you play, and it is pretty jarring at first.
But over time, it becomes clear that the nerf doesn't make SS/SW worthless by any means. What it's done is make chaining them rapidly together far less effective than before - a decent player is still able to make a well-timed dodge work very well. This system change discourages evasion spam to avoid 80% of a characters move list like we could do before, and instead forces you to think about executing a single dodge vs. certain incoming moves a the general proper time. More effort, yes, but it works for and against both players.
On thing that this change has done, at least this early in T7s life, is allow a character to offensively use more linear moves than before. What I mean is, with opponents stepping and sidewalking less, it is possible to throw out moves on occasion that you otherwise avoided because how easily people avoided them. Yes, they are still dodge-able, but you will at least make contact (block or hit) a lot more often compared to past releases.
The throw break change is something I'm almost neutral on. I was above average with throw breaks in the past, but this adjustment (which was probably done to assist weaker players defensively) seems to be a bit too hard on the throw break system. It does accentuate the skills of a grappler like King since he can mix up all three breaks (which I like), but for other characters, they lose a decent strat against many players. Perhaps Namcoi could've reduced throw damage and kept it like it was before, or keep its current form, but reduce the throw break window since you can now mash out a 1 or 2.
Getting up or defending from oki after being knocked down is significantly easier. Holding back when trying to rise no longer backrolls, but slides you into blocking position. The toe tap (KND d+4) rolls you back to safety now. The get up spring kicks for most characters (KND 3+4 now instead of KND b+3+4) has almost no start up animation and comes out super fast with high priority. Floats are mostly gone. They even added a new low, knock down kick to the face down, feet away position (SLD). Namco obviously wanted to help weaker players get on their feet more safely.
However, oki still works well in T7. While tougher than before, floats are still possible with some setups if they flinch. Certain ground positions, which occur for example when spiking juggles with some TTT2 bound attacks at the end will leave them in the SLD position that is still slow to attack from. And with no spring kick or toe kick option, that grounded opponent is easier to harass with your oki. Understand though that they instantly recover standing after the spike enders if they tech back with the controller, but the frame disadvantage for them is high.
Other oki observations... hopping over tech rollers still works well for some setups. Also, if the opponent falls in PLD position (face up, feet away) or FCD position (face down, feet towards) when using the new tech backwards slide, they rise with their back towards you for a few frames, allowing you to get in free back attacks when near a wall. So while oki is tougher to execute consistently, it can still effective in many situations that you plan (or guess) correctly.
Speaking of the wall, the biggest change is that you can't get the Bound replacement (Tail Spin) to work once they go splat. Getting the Tail Spin to come out just before they reach the wall is one option, but in the end some combos going towards the wall will do about the same damage whether you got a TS! or not.
This is because the damage scaling in juggles is SEVERE. The more hits you add, the quicker the later hits will do only slight scratches to the opponent's health bar. Overall, your best bet is to overload the front end of your combos with the power hits first. This means that the first and second hits after launch should be very strong when possible, because after that you don't hurt them with the later attacks nearly as much.
The overall balance in this game is better than TTT2 in part because of this system change if only because every character can do 40% - 50% juggles now. Another positive buff compared to TTT2 is that since (most) juggles aren't as impactful as the strongest ones in the last game, poking is a lot more relevant. The balance between the two offensive methods is really nice to experience in this game.
The most prominent new features, Power Crush and Rage Arts, are not dominating in how they affect matches. One might even say their underwhelming at this point, particularly Power Crushes. Perhaps characters need a couple of them because right now, some are a lot more worth trying than others. Hwoarang's is solid, and Lili has a really good one (a launchable mid that juggles), but if PCs were too effective then people would spam them in a way that throws off the game's balance.
Rage Arts are strong, so they definitely force the player with an advantage to turtle up a bit towards the end of a round when expecting it. However, I like how at least being in Rage mode only increases the damage of regular attacks by a tiny bit. Comebacks are more skill-based as a result.
There is other T7 stuff, both subtle and obvious, that could be commented on. Things like as how trading hits now causes CHs (a cool buff for strategic frame counters) and the various changes each returning character received. But I'll leave it there and repeat that I've had a blast playing the game, and I look forward to the home release which will undoubtedly bring us even more fun game play elements and system/character adjustments to play with.
Rentaro was on my list.
Thanks for the impressions man.
Learned some stuff.
Thats what I'm sayin! So much to learn!
Its the laboratory!
Agreed. Main reason I'm still experimenting in Tag 2 is because I'm anticipating T7. Thanks for the detailed impressions!
GrayFoxPL
Member
I'm against this way of thinking. Going by this logic Namco should have never made Tekken 3. That game played fundamentally different to Tekken 2. Or Capcom making SFV where every character is fundamentally very different from their SFIV counterparts.
EDIT: But in the end, no one is asking Namco to make a brand new IP level of changes to its sequels to Tekken. Just change enough so that we don't have to simply copy and paste 90% of our playstyles and strategies from the previous games to the next one.. that's all. And update the presentation and aesthetics that make your game worthy of being on a brand new engine & hardware rather than repeatedly copy and pasting 90% of what you had in the previous title.
If it's being recorded and commentated, I'm willing to look past it.
Yep. Was looking forward to it.
Really unfortunate.
Sure Spooky will do his own commentary bout.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Tekken 7 is like an old potato.
It's the first Tekken that makes me fall asleep while watching yt matches from KR/JP. I'm not trolling. It has that effect on me and I watch uncountable number of any Tekken matches.
I fire up Nobasin, TakTak or Knee and what I see?
People are using even less moves then before, lack of float and shitty new get up makes for predictable dull pokefest. Characters struggling to move in their magnet boots. I'm not saying sidestep doesn't work but watching all those Japanese, Korean mid and high ranked players use it once a million to evade a move takes me to one conclusion - it's not worth to risk it.
Same with moves. At first Kaz players used df+1,2 and he had old and new df+1,2 but they patched it out. (morons) Now no one uses df+1,2 for anything other then floor break. Not even at the wall because f+4, b+4 is better.
And Devil Kazuya? No one goes with it ever. Literally find one DK activation in last months, hundreds and hundreds of matches. There isn't one because it's not worth it. At all. Players just fire up Rage Art at twitch since it eats pokes at reduced damage and there you go, dumb wins I warned about ages ago.
Watching Kazuya matches is just sad.
He lost df+1,4 nc launcher, now does nothing.
Lost df+1,2 nc launcher and df+1,2 to df+1 f+2 mid high(+frame) mixup.
Lost Devil Kaz at any time for near death DK with electrics with no frame advantage or/and push back.
Lost ss+3 into db+2 combos.
Lost oki float setups like hellsweep 1, db+2 bind, b+2,4, df+3, ws+4, floats.
Gained b+4 ch launcher from DJ, the laziness is incredible, they couldn't be even bothered to animate one lousy new move for one of the most important characters in the Saga.
He's been literally reduced to 3 moves. It's painful to watch. Depressing.
And I'm already tired watching the same 2 screw combos over and over.
Tag2 was combo overkill but at least they were more varied since players looked for different opportunities:
Long wall carry for wall bound, into oki or spike after bound for refloat attempt etc.
In T7? Wall hit then spike and dj b+4 type of move everyone seems to have. I think I'm gonna puke watching this 2 move wall oki one more time.
I really hope the update is gonna be beefy and change that shit. Because there's no thrill watching this game and analyzing the matches. What is there to analyze?
It's predictable as fuck. It's like watching the same episode of Friends over and over.
Shut the fuck up Chandler.
It's the first Tekken that makes me fall asleep while watching yt matches from KR/JP. I'm not trolling. It has that effect on me and I watch uncountable number of any Tekken matches.
I fire up Nobasin, TakTak or Knee and what I see?
People are using even less moves then before, lack of float and shitty new get up makes for predictable dull pokefest. Characters struggling to move in their magnet boots. I'm not saying sidestep doesn't work but watching all those Japanese, Korean mid and high ranked players use it once a million to evade a move takes me to one conclusion - it's not worth to risk it.
Same with moves. At first Kaz players used df+1,2 and he had old and new df+1,2 but they patched it out. (morons) Now no one uses df+1,2 for anything other then floor break. Not even at the wall because f+4, b+4 is better.
And Devil Kazuya? No one goes with it ever. Literally find one DK activation in last months, hundreds and hundreds of matches. There isn't one because it's not worth it. At all. Players just fire up Rage Art at twitch since it eats pokes at reduced damage and there you go, dumb wins I warned about ages ago.
Watching Kazuya matches is just sad.
He lost df+1,4 nc launcher, now does nothing.
Lost df+1,2 nc launcher and df+1,2 to df+1 f+2 mid high(+frame) mixup.
Lost Devil Kaz at any time for near death DK with electrics with no frame advantage or/and push back.
Lost ss+3 into db+2 combos.
Lost oki float setups like hellsweep 1, db+2 bind, b+2,4, df+3, ws+4, floats.
Gained b+4 ch launcher from DJ, the laziness is incredible, they couldn't be even bothered to animate one lousy new move for one of the most important characters in the Saga.
He's been literally reduced to 3 moves. It's painful to watch. Depressing.
And I'm already tired watching the same 2 screw combos over and over.
Tag2 was combo overkill but at least they were more varied since players looked for different opportunities:
Long wall carry for wall bound, into oki or spike after bound for refloat attempt etc.
In T7? Wall hit then spike and dj b+4 type of move everyone seems to have. I think I'm gonna puke watching this 2 move wall oki one more time.
I really hope the update is gonna be beefy and change that shit. Because there's no thrill watching this game and analyzing the matches. What is there to analyze?
It's predictable as fuck. It's like watching the same episode of Friends over and over.
Shut the fuck up Chandler.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Thanks man.
I was holding it in. I love Tekken, that's why I bitch so hard. If I didn't love it I wouldn't give two shits about state of Tekken as of now and where it's going (to a clown fest!).
Someone save Tekken and punch Harada in the balls because he's making me go more and more into "not caring zone".
I respectfully disagree with this for many reasons. Seems more of a rant than a careful analysis lol
Also remember: we're in Tekken 7 unofficial beta release.
GrayFoxPL
Member
You could pick a random number of videos from sources I noted above and wont see a crap worth of actual sidesteping=move evading. But okay it's just a rant and I didn't notice anything watching hundreds of those matches. I'm blind as always.
I agree with you on the gameplay end. It's still the Tekken you love and it's amazing.
But as you note, the new mechanics don't really do much of anything and I would like there to be at least somewhat of an evolution.
A greater focus is needed on reinventing old returning characters both aesthestically and from a gameplay perspective.
I also hope they get better 3D modelers. The actual concept art for new characters like lucky chloe and devil kazumi actually looks pretty good, but the way they've translated these characters into 3D models looks awful.
A lot of people also have that Tekken 4 itch and would like to see a more serious focus on presentation and less goofiness in general. I really am tired of the customization system. Please just remove it altogether and give me two good defaults. I do not want to see characters looking like clowns. My fear is that even if this game gets a PC release, there won't be a way to escape customizations with a mod because some of them are usable as items and affect the gameplay.
What's worse is that they are re-using the shittier customs from TTT2 (hello again fish glued to the back) and not the good ones from Tekken 6. If they were going to recycle from past games, at least use the better quality stuff.
What's worse is that they are re-using the shittier customs from TTT2 (hello again fish glued to the back) and not the good ones from Tekken 6. If they were going to recycle from past games, at least use the better quality stuff.
I just bought the LE Devil Asuka banapass from this ebayer.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Tekken-7-limi...r-not-for-sale-namco-/272018805359?nav=SEARCH
Should I also get that Devil Kazumi? Or just wait for jbstyle Katarina or jbstyle Lili, jbstyle Lili/Eliza?
You can have three cards registered to one id. My vanilla card has taken a bunch of scuffs in my wallet. I'll still get a custom vinyl sticker for it. For my LE Devil Asuka I'm going to use a plastic sleeve going forward. Lol
Edit: this is what I bought.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Tekken-7-limi...-sale-namco-/272018804677?txnId=1548702962017
I found a Lili/Eliza card along with others in a yahoo auction, I'll keep eye out for that.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Tekken-7-limi...r-not-for-sale-namco-/272018805359?nav=SEARCH
Should I also get that Devil Kazumi? Or just wait for jbstyle Katarina or jbstyle Lili, jbstyle Lili/Eliza?
You can have three cards registered to one id. My vanilla card has taken a bunch of scuffs in my wallet. I'll still get a custom vinyl sticker for it. For my LE Devil Asuka I'm going to use a plastic sleeve going forward. Lol
Edit: this is what I bought.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Tekken-7-limi...-sale-namco-/272018804677?txnId=1548702962017
I found a Lili/Eliza card along with others in a yahoo auction, I'll keep eye out for that.
I keep hearing this... but this is another sign of alarm... a beta to a final product is where mechanics are tuned and refined to a better balance. If this is the beta for the final release, what are the chances we'll get any new mechanics or things that will introduce more variables to make the game feel more fresh?
I was having a conversation with boutdown a while ago about this & what I think would be super cool for a Tekken game is if they removed the customization system but allowed for real-time dynamic clothing during battle. For example, if let's say we look at Jin's T7 outfit. Throughout the match, the zipper on his jacket would loosen until the Jacket itself would be open. And if the match proceeds further, the jacket could even potentially loosen and de-sleave on one side when an attack land that causes him to spin/somersault in mid air. And then during a side-role the entire jacket can come off. Something to make the fight look more believable. Not just limited to clothing but for the facial features as well. When it comes to the hair, you can have Jin's hair gel loosen causing it to fall, something like Takamura's fight with Hawk in Hajime no ippo as seen in the images below. Or if some character has a ponytail, the ponytail band could loosen causing the hair to fall.
Beginning of Fight:
End of Fight:
Ditch the customs if you can't make them the calibur of Tekken 6 and focus on making the default outfits have real time deformation and better cloth physics. And it's not like it's unheard of:
I'd gladly take sub-HD to have those kinds of effects honestly. Kasumi's default outfit looks so sick, but the lack of the lower body having near non-existent cloth phsyics makes it so disappointing.
I no longer have photoshop and can't make gifs right now. :/
I made the mistake of switching to Windows 10 when I should have just stayed with Windows 8.
I love Windows 8.........
If only this was true.
I don't know why anyone at Namco thought re-using ugly TTT2 customs in a brand new game that is supposed to demonstrate the visual fidelity of UE4 was a good idea.
I'm seeing these matches from Tekken Crash and these players just have the most hideous customs on their characters. It's very unappealing.
Wow....these are nice.
Yeah they are!
My biggest problem is that I don't have a high quality image of the banapassport logo. Even though it's a png file, the one on the namco site is still too small.
I want to use this Katarina instead now.
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2073638?tags=dakkuu
My biggest problem is that I don't have a high quality image of the banapassport logo. Even though it's a png file, the one on the namco site is still too small.
I want to use this Katarina instead now.
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2073638?tags=dakkuu
This person has a bunch of good art on his twitter, including this Katarina one you posted.
Asuka in a hoodie would actually be really nice.
This person has a bunch of good art on his twitter, including this Katarina one you posted.
Asuka in a hoodie would actually be really nice.
Yeah it would, it's kinda hard between the Kat with a sword (my Kat always wields a sword!) or hoodie Asuka.
What does knowing this change? We've been in "unofficial beta release" for a year now and it's still the same things we can complain about today. They haven't added anything except for characters and frame data. The mechanics are still the same (triple floorbreak was pretty funny though
). I don't think we'll see any "big" changes in the official Arcade release.So a bit like Jin's hoodie in T4, only with whole outfits.
Tekken's very own engine has always been quite amazing. I still don't know if UE4 was a good idea.
I'll be honest, this is some pretty interesting detective work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpckx8kXVg4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpckx8kXVg4
Via Purifico
Banned
Damn, we're still in the beta phase? maybe working on all those projects was a bad idea.
I don't hold that opinion because that assumes Namco got it enough of it right with T1/T2 to carry it through today. They didn't, just like the guy who invented basketball in the 1800s didn't get enough of it right when the rules used peach baskets for the hoops (with the bottoms still attached) and did not allow dribbling the ball - team mates simply passed it to each other from a stationary position.
There are two ways that fighting game sequels make changes/adjustments/additions/subtractions... in the universal play mechanics and in the unique abilities of the characters themselves. Above I listed a whole slew of new or changed universal play mechanics in T7 that veterans will have to incorporate into their games to maximize their winning chances.
The thing is, most of these mechanics are subtle (unlike the new, flashier Power Crush and Rage Arts). That does not diminish the fact that you will adjust your tactics in various ways from TTT2 or you weaken your chances to win against someone who has adapted.
For instance, I talked about how toe kicks from KND position are a lot more effective now that you roll away to complete safety, unlike before when you were stuck in a heavy frame disadvantage right in front of the opponent.
This buffed mechanic will have people using it more, but there is a greater downside as well because people will look to low parry it more than before over time. That is important to note because one change I didn't mention is that low parries now allow you to dish out full juggles. In TTT2 you couldn't juggle-->Bound in low parry combos, but in T7 you can juggle-->Tail Spin them for extra damage and added wall carry. In fact, the decision in general to block low vs. low parry attempts is even more weighted more heavily towards low parrying a lot more because of this update.
As for T7 character adjustments, again the changes are more subtle than pronounced, but they are there. Sure, Namco can revamp a lot of what the character does, but look how that worked out for SCV when half the roster had their move lists readjusted (and given new names/profiles). Change for change sake is not necessarily the answer, unless one thinks that every T7 character should have gone under the knife like the Bruce--->Josie operation.
The subtle but impactful character changes in T7 become apparent as you play it. When one recognizes that people are spamming lateral dodge commands a lot less in this game because of the SS/SW nerf, you also find that you can use your linear attacks a bit more than you could in the past. That's a pretty cool thing to explore moves you may have previously ignored with your character, even though linear attacks still cannot be abused since tactical evasion works well.
And when someone does toss a Power Crush at your custom poke strings, it really throws you off because it shows you that your carefully constructed frame-data setups are not impenetrable. Sure, the opponent is taking CH damage for every attack that makes contact during the PC animation (the main deterrent from over use of 'em), but if you are tossing out jabs and generic d/f+1s you are going to get the worst of it. That's why PCs can be a really good (new) way to help maintain a lead from the crazy comeback of a dying opponent.
So it is simply not true that T7 doesn't change the way one plays, but the changes take place mostly under the hood with different Tekken-y stuff being tweaked, rather than an overhaul of the game properties or the introduction of a bunch of new abusable, features.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Take a guess. They announced TxSF in 2010. Through that time they've started and finished several projects and now started several new ones and TxSF, game that one seemed to think would be a top priority is a problem of some sad dude living in a cubicle at Tekken Project whom Harada given the honor to create the game from 7 pencils, 4 sheets of paper and an opened bag of dog biscuits Heihachi-kun didn't want any more.
Good luck Mister Japanese MacGyver.
Edit:
Btw. Remember when Tag2 was annouced as the first game of "Fighting Festival"? The second was SFxTK and the third was supposed to be TKxSF. They don't even remember the festival bit. Lol.
Not sure I understand you... by your definition, no T7 juggle is full since they are all heavily scaled. In the context of this new game you can do more than before because TS! is allowed in a low parry juggle where B! was not in the last game.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I think Manny means that parry now gives juggle status from the go so scaled to 60%(?) wherever in vanilla T6 it was a trip stun and the first launcher hit was full damage normal hit.
@joeblow
Thanks for the detailed reply, but IMO your analogy of basketball is flawed. A physical sport has limitless potential for innovation compared to a videogame for optimal play. I don't follow the sport but I'm relatively sure new methods, tricks, and plays are conjured up extremely frequently to optimize the level of play a team has based on fitness, synergy, and countless other factors. And with that the sport can naturally evolve. The same can't necessarily be said with Tekken where there is a fixed number of moves and mechanics at your disposal. In the end we are talking about a videogame, something that is meant to entertain us as a consumer. And in the context of videogames an overhaul for a numbered sequel is almost a pre-requisite unless you're Madden or FIFA where you an get away with it.
Yes I acknowledge your post about the universal changes to the gameplay that implement some modifications to the way you play and yes, I acknowledge that they are subtle. But in the end they are just buffs and nerfs to existing mechanics that are what result in the majority of gameplay modifications people are incorporating into their game. You mentioned a bunch of things like nerfing the lateral movement, nerfing the okizeme, buffing the low parry, buffing the wake-up attacks, those are all balance changes. We as consumers who pay money for this stuff shouldn't just expect a handful of balance changes for a numbered sequel. That's stuff that should be reserved for gameplay update patches like going from SSF4 to Ultra where they nerfed and buffed system-wide things like the wake-up and focus attacks.
The only new mechanics are the armor moves and supers. The armor moves themselves can even be considered a spin-off to the absorb moves introduced in Tekken 6 like Wang's ws+1+2 except now it does scaled damage on the person doing the move. So in the end, all that's really bramd new is the supers, which IMO is implemented in one of the most shallow ways. You'd except King's super to be a grab, or Asuka's super to be a counter, or some way for Namco to get creative with its implementation. But alas, it's just another armor move that can also absorb lows and puts you into a cutscene (another thing I personally detest) once they land. Only exception I guess is Kazuya's devil mode & Yoshi's flash. It's a paltry edition overall and it really could have been something to give characters a real new tool to change their game around.
And about the changes to individual character's moves... I see nothing wrong with expecting major changes ala Bruce->Josie just like how Tekken 3 did it. You bring the example of Soul Calibur V failing (I personally welcomed and enjoyed but regardless), I can bring up another example of Mortal Kombat X and now Street Fighter V that are doing it. While SFV isn't proven yet, MKX is a clear example of how you can successfully change every character completely and the community will still welcome it. Again I'm not asking to change characters to the extent that MKX did where they recycled practically nothing from MK9, but it's proof that it can (and should) still be done. For another game, Marvel vs Capcom 3 went through such a drastic change that the control scheme was completely altered. I wouldn't mind a brave new notion to introduce a brand new control scheme for Tekken either to see how it could improve the game and make it more enjoyable.
In the end, the final question to answer is what's the point of Tekken 7 then if there is no need to evolve the game anymore? Why not just patch TTT2 into a solo mode and incorporate the balance changes + characters that you described in your post? It's significantly cheaper, and its an avenue that both the east and the west can instantly play and invest in. And Namco added nearly nothing new technology wise since everything is a copy and paste from TTT2/T6 just at a higher polygon count & resolution. What really is the future of this series if this is the limit?
Thanks for the detailed reply, but IMO your analogy of basketball is flawed. A physical sport has limitless potential for innovation compared to a videogame for optimal play. I don't follow the sport but I'm relatively sure new methods, tricks, and plays are conjured up extremely frequently to optimize the level of play a team has based on fitness, synergy, and countless other factors. And with that the sport can naturally evolve. The same can't necessarily be said with Tekken where there is a fixed number of moves and mechanics at your disposal. In the end we are talking about a videogame, something that is meant to entertain us as a consumer. And in the context of videogames an overhaul for a numbered sequel is almost a pre-requisite unless you're Madden or FIFA where you an get away with it.
Yes I acknowledge your post about the universal changes to the gameplay that implement some modifications to the way you play and yes, I acknowledge that they are subtle. But in the end they are just buffs and nerfs to existing mechanics that are what result in the majority of gameplay modifications people are incorporating into their game. You mentioned a bunch of things like nerfing the lateral movement, nerfing the okizeme, buffing the low parry, buffing the wake-up attacks, those are all balance changes. We as consumers who pay money for this stuff shouldn't just expect a handful of balance changes for a numbered sequel. That's stuff that should be reserved for gameplay update patches like going from SSF4 to Ultra where they nerfed and buffed system-wide things like the wake-up and focus attacks.
The only new mechanics are the armor moves and supers. The armor moves themselves can even be considered a spin-off to the absorb moves introduced in Tekken 6 like Wang's ws+1+2 except now it does scaled damage on the person doing the move. So in the end, all that's really bramd new is the supers, which IMO is implemented in one of the most shallow ways. You'd except King's super to be a grab, or Asuka's super to be a counter, or some way for Namco to get creative with its implementation. But alas, it's just another armor move that can also absorb lows and puts you into a cutscene (another thing I personally detest) once they land. Only exception I guess is Kazuya's devil mode & Yoshi's flash. It's a paltry edition overall and it really could have been something to give characters a real new tool to change their game around.
And about the changes to individual character's moves... I see nothing wrong with expecting major changes ala Bruce->Josie just like how Tekken 3 did it. You bring the example of Soul Calibur V failing (I personally welcomed and enjoyed but regardless), I can bring up another example of Mortal Kombat X and now Street Fighter V that are doing it. While SFV isn't proven yet, MKX is a clear example of how you can successfully change every character completely and the community will still welcome it. Again I'm not asking to change characters to the extent that MKX did where they recycled practically nothing from MK9, but it's proof that it can (and should) still be done. For another game, Marvel vs Capcom 3 went through such a drastic change that the control scheme was completely altered. I wouldn't mind a brave new notion to introduce a brand new control scheme for Tekken either to see how it could improve the game and make it more enjoyable.
In the end, the final question to answer is what's the point of Tekken 7 then if there is no need to evolve the game anymore? Why not just patch TTT2 into a solo mode and incorporate the balance changes + characters that you described in your post? It's significantly cheaper, and its an avenue that both the east and the west can instantly play and invest in. And Namco added nearly nothing new technology wise since everything is a copy and paste from TTT2/T6 just at a higher polygon count & resolution. What really is the future of this series if this is the limit?
It matters, because that was the true major difference between juggles off of low parry before BR and after. Before, it was a full juggle with full damage. Afterwords, you were scaled up front, so the follow up juggle was pretty much generic throw damage. It's a very big difference.
Adding talespin doesn't really increase the damage much, if at all. What it does give you is a lot more wall carry options, but juggles off of low parry are still very low damage, so to cite that one small difference as much of a game changer compared to BR/Tag 2 is a bit of an exaggeration.
Hmmm, you're looking at T7's low parry solely from a damage standpoint. I was looking at it from more angles than that, which includes an improved wall carry, which is significant.
Also part of that, which is another subtle offensive buff in T7 compared to the last game, is how Tail Spinning targets are noticeably vulnerable for a longer period of time than Bounded foes. Because of this, characters can follow-up a TS! with non-techable spike attacks that whiff vs. someone in the B! state.
In T7, this increases damage output for some characters because after the spike you may be able to squeeze in a final, free ground attack that doesn't have its damage drastically gimped like normal last hits in T7 juggles. I've seen Lili, Ling, and Shaheen take advantage of this, and there are likely more. This ends up allowing for max wall carry post low parry, or max damage in open ground.
Also part of that, which is another subtle offensive buff in T7 compared to the last game, is how Tail Spinning targets are noticeably vulnerable for a longer period of time than Bounded foes. Because of this, characters can follow-up a TS! with non-techable spike attacks that whiff vs. someone in the B! state.
In T7, this increases damage output for some characters because after the spike you may be able to squeeze in a final, free ground attack that doesn't have its damage drastically gimped like normal last hits in T7 juggles. I've seen Lili, Ling, and Shaheen take advantage of this, and there are likely more. This ends up allowing for max wall carry post low parry, or max damage in open ground.
Do you think that this is something along the lines of people exploiting in the system, or an intentional game mechanic that people are just now starting to capitalize on?
No, I'm not. I very clearly stated that it only gives you the option for better wall carry options, at least when necessary, but you did bring up a good point in regards to the unique spike moves that you can connect out of it now.
Of course, you won't be doing much of that if you do several hits before the actual tailspin. You actually become quite limited in those situations since you have to do a much deeper dash before going for your ender. In that case, your best options become WR moves or moves that come out fluidly from a running state.
Either way, while it gives you overall improvemed low parry options, I still feel like you are heavily overstating the value. As it is now, you get maybe an extra 1,2 jab's worth of wall carry out of it, or those sometimes unique spike options. Damage wise, it isn't really giving you anything. It's a small buff and still an absolute farcry from what low parries used to be. Not much more of a deterrent than it was during BR/Tag 2.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Honestly T7 is the proper evolution. That's how you change a game enough without taking away its essence. Could things be better? Yes. Can it be more aesthetically different? Yes. But for the most part its an evolution of the game. Enough to be noticeable but the same game we loved to play...for the most part.
Oh and T7 is actually really fun to watch. Well at least American play is which is odd.
Edit: You know what Korean play is just really boring.
Oh and T7 is actually really fun to watch. Well at least American play is which is odd.
Edit: You know what Korean play is just really boring.
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