Indeed she is pretty awesome.
Her limited movelist is her weakness tho and you can quickly seee what moves people go for the most.
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Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads
- Thread starter AAK
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Her limited movelist is her weakness tho and you can quickly seee what moves people go for the most.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Doesn't matter because those moves are all stupid good. She has frame datawise the best d/f+1 in Tekken history. i13, -1 on block, +8 on hit!!!, with a follow up that kd. That is insane.
Watching the vids and her running 2 is just amazing,Tiger uppercut seems not like a good launcher choice but high crushes and that damage too. 3,2? into d2 or tiger is amazing too and her normal combo ender with the tiger pushes them to the wall from very far also good wall ender.
The topic of Kazumi reminds me of this death match of Knee's Shaheen vs Japan's premier Kazumi Karei:
https://youtu.be/aUXRWZzUkpc?t=10345
Frame Data right now to me is whatever... I can't even begin to be bothered over those details when I'll never be able to play for another year and half. Who knows what's gonna change...
Hmmm.. I see what you mean. Those gifs definitely look good (especially with no customizations) but I don't think that's enough to be truly marketable.
Just to clarify my point of view: T7(even when chowcased with Kane/STL quality) is missing the novelty factor that I believe is so imperative for selling a brand new numbered sequel. The Tekken 4 trailer had characters like Kazuya do a move like f+2 from Tag 1 now being used for a wall splat, or Xiaoyu doing that wall push into the d/b+1 guaranteed... an application of an old move never seen before. It showcases a utility that was never seen before in the series that can get players salivating about the new gameplay doors it can open up. It's the same way how SFV is marketable by showing Dhalsim's Yoga Flame now being able to place a flame carpet or Bison now being able to reflect projectiles, it's all showing new utility that was never possible in the series before.
And that's marketing your gameplay, then there's also marketing with the aesthetic. SFV also succeeded because it's showing some evolution to its characters (except a few like Ryu/Chun/Cammy/Zangief). When watching the Paris Games Week livestreams of any publication whether it be GiantBomb, GameTrailers, or any other mainstream outlet, everyone instantly started talking outloud about Dhalsim's new beard the second it appeared on screen. And with that word of mouth during the reveal, SFV's name spread across the interwebs. The Tekken 7 cast need some kind new visual indicator showcasing evolution that can make people start caring & talking which is the end result of marketing.
Sure the Kane/STL vids are beautiful running at 60 fps/1080p res... but IMO it needs the gameplay novelty and visual evolution components accompanying it to be truely marketable. Let's put a hypothetical scenario where Namco tomorrow had a native res 60 fps video about Lili released to market T7... how much impact will it really have? Do you guys think the general public can start to generate hype when Namco already had this only a few years earlier on that marketing campaign? (honest question)
I know absolutely nothing about any MMORGPG... so everything goes way over my head already. BUT I'll still check it out with an open mind.
https://youtu.be/aUXRWZzUkpc?t=10345
Frame Data right now to me is whatever... I can't even begin to be bothered over those details when I'll never be able to play for another year and half. Who knows what's gonna change...
Hmmm.. I see what you mean. Those gifs definitely look good (especially with no customizations) but I don't think that's enough to be truly marketable.
Just to clarify my point of view: T7(even when chowcased with Kane/STL quality) is missing the novelty factor that I believe is so imperative for selling a brand new numbered sequel. The Tekken 4 trailer had characters like Kazuya do a move like f+2 from Tag 1 now being used for a wall splat, or Xiaoyu doing that wall push into the d/b+1 guaranteed... an application of an old move never seen before. It showcases a utility that was never seen before in the series that can get players salivating about the new gameplay doors it can open up. It's the same way how SFV is marketable by showing Dhalsim's Yoga Flame now being able to place a flame carpet or Bison now being able to reflect projectiles, it's all showing new utility that was never possible in the series before.
And that's marketing your gameplay, then there's also marketing with the aesthetic. SFV also succeeded because it's showing some evolution to its characters (except a few like Ryu/Chun/Cammy/Zangief). When watching the Paris Games Week livestreams of any publication whether it be GiantBomb, GameTrailers, or any other mainstream outlet, everyone instantly started talking outloud about Dhalsim's new beard the second it appeared on screen. And with that word of mouth during the reveal, SFV's name spread across the interwebs. The Tekken 7 cast need some kind new visual indicator showcasing evolution that can make people start caring & talking which is the end result of marketing.
Sure the Kane/STL vids are beautiful running at 60 fps/1080p res... but IMO it needs the gameplay novelty and visual evolution components accompanying it to be truely marketable. Let's put a hypothetical scenario where Namco tomorrow had a native res 60 fps video about Lili released to market T7... how much impact will it really have? Do you guys think the general public can start to generate hype when Namco already had this only a few years earlier on that marketing campaign? (honest question)
I know absolutely nothing about any MMORGPG... so everything goes way over my head already. BUT I'll still check it out with an open mind.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I got a taste of that SFV....
That might be three games under my belt come Final Round next year.
That might be three games under my belt come Final Round next year.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
I tasted it and it tastes like shit. Only thing appealing to me about the game is the potential to make money winning local tournaments with little effort.
Funny you should mention that. Here's something new that Ling can do in T7 for free if blocked (near a wall or not):
Which kinda illustrates the point I was making earlier after having played for several months - there are more "Tekken-ish" additions, changes and adjustments than some who haven't played give it credit for.
Sure, the game is certainly more of an evolution instead of a revolution, and we already talked about the pros and cons of re-inventing the game vs. simply releasing a new franchise. But that doesn't mean the sequel is a stagnant update. I'll say again that a lot of the things in this game are subtle but potentially significant, and altogether add up to a enjoyable refinement of the Tekken formula.
For instance, here's the last response Manbig posted to a quote of mine on this very point (I said the the T7 back spring kick and toe kick adjustments from knock-down position forces you to adjust your okizeme strategies):
This is simply not accurate. Moreso than any other Tekken, a fallen opponent is better equipped to deal with aggressive okizeme. These are two of at least five anti-oki techniques Namco added, changed or tweaked that you will have to look out for or some of your old wake up tactics will be blocked or interrupted. The back spring kick comes out significantly faster (for those that can access it - i.e. Steve can't do it) than before and has a lot of priority. As I watch T7 matches, I can sometimes "see" players aware of this move as they instinctively zone it in order to evade or punish it should it come out. Other times I see it interrupting in situations where it would have been too slow in earlier games to work.
With the toe kick, it was barely worth trying except to end a round because even on hit, you were at a significant frame disadvantage right in front of your opponent. Now? I've seen high level players use it with their backs to the wall of all places because even then the game rolls them backwards to a much safer situation.
Of course okizeme is still very potent, and plenty of setups can still deal with these defensive buffs. But the overall benefit to the game is that it is definitely easier than before to defend against oki, which means players will take less damage while rising on average, which ultimately means more action occurs with both players on their feet (which is good IMHO).
Lastly, I should have responded to your post here earlier, but I accidentally wiped it and didn't feel like re-typing it, lol.
Honestly, I think the basketball analogy works half-way decently.
Of course real life will always offer more than what's possible in any game. NBA2K is considered one of the best sports titles in videogames, but even it can't offer "limitless potential for innovation" for obvious reasons. Still, to me one reason Tekken is a blast compared to most 2D fighters (as an example) is that the huge move lists offer a lot more opportunities for discovery and innovation of custom setups. Lei Wulong alone has more moves (400+) than some fighting games' entire cast put together!
One might argue that most moves are useless, and there is a point to that except for one thing: in T7, more ignored moves are a bit more useful because of how sidestep/sidewalk were nerfed. A player can't simply evade 85% of a movelist as easy as before with step cancels. This opens up possibilities with each characters movelists while still retaining the usefulness of 3D evasion. Subtle, but significant.
Anyway, my point about b-ball and Tekken was that after the awkward early starts, they both settled into what is pretty much the same thing for years with added tweaks here and there. Tekken 1 and 2 are like the first few decades of basketball, where they played with peach baskets with closed bottoms, and once you had the ball you couldn't move - only pass or shoot. Dribbling didn't come until later.
Like T3, basketball eventually became at least 80% of the sport that that is recognizable today. The three point shot and the 24-second rule are major advancements, just as sidestep/walk and walls were in Tekken. But overall, most of the game is pretty much the same. None of us here have fully mastered the characters we play, and in T7, your winning potential increases if you learn how to mix your old tactics with the subtle but significant changes the new game offers.
As I said before, like Counterstrike, basketball, etc., I see nothing wrong with evolution over revolution. But I will say, I like some of your ideas, and maybe the home version will flesh out Power Crushes and Rage Arts a bit more. Perhaps give everybody at least two of each for different strategic uses.
Though, there is already a decent variety in how they are implemented between the characters. Lili's PC is potentially very dangerous as it is mid and gives a full juggle for armor crushing an attack, but it guarantees an opponent juggling her if it is blocked. You would go at her differently if you knew the player could throw it out, vs. how Yoshi's flash PC is used (only dangerous in close), which is different from the properties of Ling, which is safe but is high and doesn't juggle.
As for RAs, Paul can cancel his mid animation to create better combos, Jin and Steve's RAs are so fast that they can punish whiffed jabs (but are high for balance), Lucky Chloe's is a high crushing ultra.
No, none of this is overwhelming. But I maintain that it doesn't have to be in order to add enjoyment to a franchise that is fundamentally a ton of fun even without these new mechanics. They are just icing on the cake at this point. If one is looking for major changes and a lot of purely new stuff, then yeah, they will be disappointed.
Not to take away from these other games, but it is easier to do significant overhauls to 2D fighters when they have comparatively fewer moves than Tekken characters. To me, it is exciting playing with the tools that the Tekken characters already have since discovering "my optimal response to his effective set up" and vice-versa is never ending and filled with good times.
I don't outright reject anything being completely new, and depending on what it is I may welcome it. It's just that the absence of some whizz-bang new feature is not as big of a deal to me as it may be to you and others simply because I feel there is still plenty to learn and do with the returning Tekken gameplay, as well as enough interesting stuff to work with in the T7-only gameplay tweaks.
Well, as I continue to point out, there are far more T7-only "Tekken-ish" updates than some realize, and I don't feel an evolving game has to incorporate a ton of never-seen-before features to be a legit sequel (i.e., almost all sports games, competitive games like Counterstrike, etc.). In all those cases, a developer could simply tweak an existing game as you say instead of releasing a sequel.
Honestly, either way is fine for me. A number in the end is just a number. I just enjoy playing Tekken.
Yup, I'd love a Tekken 2 HD!
You know what was the real crime in this franchise?
No co-op Tekken Force. :/
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Tekken might be the only fighting game series where it's fans are it's #1 haters.
Tekken sucks
But everything else sucks even more, so I'll stick with it.
lol, who did you play in BR4? Stun and Gado were always my favorites, well at least in BR2, not sure I ever played 4.
Xiaoyu always had some extreme frame advantage (I think it's +21) after three steps of her b+1+2. It's like cheating
Yeah, but Rage Arts in general are new, and she has a unique ability to take advantage of them.
MikeBreezy92
Member
That's kool man.
MikeBreezy92
Member
extra post
GrayFoxPL
Member
The only thing I hate is dullness of T7 and humongous amounts of copy paste.
That argument that Koreans play boring way so T7 looks boring. I find that pretty insulting and incorrect. I'm watching insane amounts of Tekken(dr,6,tag2) matches on youtube, often whole night and Koreans play really awesome matches in those games.
Players like Knee and JDCR play the best way they can in every Tekken and somehow their T6 and Tag2 matches are much more more exciting and dynamic than T7. So suddenly they intentionally play T7 the boring way? Jesus.
And what's with that argument that on low level it's very fun? Or that American play is fun because they don't know what they're doing? Is that supposed to make T7 appealing?
Who watches Tekken for some low level screwing around? And wont that "fun American play" eventually mature to "boring Korean play" because that's how you actually play the game?
I remember how Aris reacted on the T7 stream when Harada first started to bring it to US events. "I know how it may seem but the game is actually fun, trust me." He kept repeating things like that throughout the stream. Almost apologizing for the game and boredom it emitted. Poor Aris.
Maybe try not to fault the players but the game instead? T7 is just painfully dull to watch. It's that simple.
That argument that Koreans play boring way so T7 looks boring. I find that pretty insulting and incorrect. I'm watching insane amounts of Tekken(dr,6,tag2) matches on youtube, often whole night and Koreans play really awesome matches in those games.
Players like Knee and JDCR play the best way they can in every Tekken and somehow their T6 and Tag2 matches are much more more exciting and dynamic than T7. So suddenly they intentionally play T7 the boring way? Jesus.
And what's with that argument that on low level it's very fun? Or that American play is fun because they don't know what they're doing? Is that supposed to make T7 appealing?
Who watches Tekken for some low level screwing around? And wont that "fun American play" eventually mature to "boring Korean play" because that's how you actually play the game?
I remember how Aris reacted on the T7 stream when Harada first started to bring it to US events. "I know how it may seem but the game is actually fun, trust me." He kept repeating things like that throughout the stream. Almost apologizing for the game and boredom it emitted. Poor Aris.
Maybe try not to fault the players but the game instead? T7 is just painfully dull to watch. It's that simple.
Yugo, come see me.
I forgot, I uploaded some matches of me and a buddy a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd41RhOmz4Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPKpUkI73e0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2mNPR5ZlTY
GrayFoxPL
Member
Nice.
Reji was pretty op in this game.
Great series, underrated.
2 was fantastic though there was some crazy stuff. I remember at one point I was able to cancel first half frames qcf+k (Jumping grab) into qcf+p (uppercut) with Marvel. She just teleported from air to ground. Broken/glitch. Crazy game but really awesome and insanely playable.
Interestingly 2 was one of the best or even the best game in the series but Bloody Roar 3 was the game that got the 2 different variations. Primal Fury for GC and Extreme for Xbox. But it wasn't very good.
4 was solid with insane combo possibilities but at this point no one played BR.
But BR2 will rock forever.
What I like about the series Is how they changed every sequel it was a new game every time(not counting the part 3-sequels) and how they redesigned Yugo.
Yugo
BR1 - general street fighter, uppercut, flash kick, tiger knee.
BR2 - kick boxer with new "one, two, body, upper!" reanimated every move and added tone of combos.
BR3 - kick boxer with 70% boxing 30% kicking. Many new boxing techniques like flicker.
BR4 - Almost entirely a boxer with few kick techniques. Amount of boxing tech almost uncountable. Totally awesome.
I also played mostly Yugo but also Bakuryu with probably most fun juggles ending with air throw, Long with his circle of death loop combo, Marvel/Shina the better Gado, Xion the cool looking but shit tier grasshopper and Stun the huge beetle he was hard to play but probably the first grappler in fighting games I started to like.
Hate Alice.
Alice/Alisa every character with a name like that is bound to be awful.
Edit:
Another.
Sick, thanks for sharing. I wish I knew how to cancel stuff like this as a kid, looks so much cooler than what I was doing lol.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Cool!
I'm not sure but I think there was option to turn off cancel everything stuff in BR2, they went a little overboard with it, lol.
Even the smallest details matter. Showing stuff like the fruit falling off the cart in the Souq stage, showing some of the better rage arts (like Claudio's), showing the power crush and slow motion.........that's all novelty that wasn't there before......and part of it impacts the gameplay.
To a general audience, showing this stuff would be wow-zers and hype!!
If I had the time, I would create a custom trailer for Tekken 7 to show how good it can look. But unfortunately, I don't have the time now and, unfortunately, the marketable stuff doesn't speak to the quality of the entire game.........because as soon as you introduce stuff like TTT2 customs and colors and clipping and bad 3D modeling.........it all goes down the drain.
But nevertheless, it is still a marketable game if you focus on the good aspects.
Heyyyy, I've been very supportive of Tekken 7.
Even though the gameplay isn't very evolutionary, I'm still fine with it because it's still Tekken and fun to play.
But then, the more I've started to see super hideous TTT2 customs and colors, the more I've just started to not like the game. Why create a beautiful looking game if you're gonna fill it up with all this hideousness? The stuff like hair clipping and models I imagine will be fixed over time......... but at least don't ruin the visual appeal of the game by forcing nauseous, ugly, hideous, disgusting, terribly odious TTT2 customs down my throat. It's not like they're gonna give us an option to turn off customs online and not see other people's messy, monster of a creation since some of the custom items impact gameplay (like axes, guns, paper fans, whatever).
MikeBreezy92
Member
No the way koreans tend to play the game is as if its T6 or TTT2..which its not. Something I picked up on at EVO this year. The way they play the game is not very exciting while when I watch American play I can get more into it even if its not really optimal play because they're playing it like its a new game trying to figure out stuff. I get the same feeling watching Japanese play. They're the ones experimenting it feels like. Add on to that is personally I didn't watch korean play for Tag 2 either. It bores me at this point because you exactly what they are going to do, and how they're going to do it. And I don't learn anything new that can help me.
And Aris likes T7...a lot of people do actually that have played the game. Its not even boring to Non-Tekken players watching it. Actually...the only people who I've seen actively dislike T7 or called it dull are...Tekken fans....damn ZTS was right.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Watching the match videos from the beginning(of T7) Koreans also figured stuff out to the point where they noticed it's not working or is not worth it, like Kaz's Devil transformation at brink of death. You have probably 50 to 1 more chances to hit someone with RageArt then to pull of death combo starting with f+4 on crouching opponent at the right spot.
Show me the match videos where Japanese players are playing all that different from Koreans. Especially tournament players.
Because we actually know what we are watching.
Show me the shitiest Starcraft footage ever and I say it's interesting because I don't know squat about it.
@MikeBreezy
There's a lot to dislike about Tekken 7 and people that are voicing concerns can't be faulted for doing so.
Is there any denying that they are literally copy/pasting customs over from TTT2? Is there any denying that there are hair clipping and character modeling issues with Tekken 7? Is there any denying that rage arts and power crush moves are not (r)evolutionary mechanics?
Are these not legitimate complaints?
Beyond that, there are subjective reasons to dislike the game. Many people are not fond of some of the new character designs (Lucky Chloe, Gigas, Devil Kazumi) or the reinventing of old ones (Jin, Jack). Many people like myself are also annoyed that diversity is lacking with the female cast. We really did not need characters like Lucky Chloe and Josie. Those slots could have been filled with some good fighting styles like silat. Now all we have is another troll hybrid of Lili and Chreddy and a crying rip off of Bruce.
There's a lot to dislike about Tekken 7 and people that are voicing concerns can't be faulted for doing so.
Is there any denying that they are literally copy/pasting customs over from TTT2? Is there any denying that there are hair clipping and character modeling issues with Tekken 7? Is there any denying that rage arts and power crush moves are not (r)evolutionary mechanics?
Are these not legitimate complaints?
Beyond that, there are subjective reasons to dislike the game. Many people are not fond of some of the new character designs (Lucky Chloe, Gigas, Devil Kazumi) or the reinventing of old ones (Jin, Jack). Many people like myself are also annoyed that diversity is lacking with the female cast. We really did not need characters like Lucky Chloe and Josie. Those slots could have been filled with some good fighting styles like silat. Now all we have is another troll hybrid of Lili and Chreddy and a crying rip off of Bruce.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Already said it, watch EVO.
Well for one that's kinda the point. If it looks good to non-Tekken players then that's a good thing. If you find watching T7 dull then that's you. I mean you already don't like the game based on concept so how do you expect to be entertained by it?
@Sayah None of what you said really disagreed with anything I said. You can have your complaints. I'm saying most of the negativity towards T7 is by Tekken fans. My only issue with the complaints is that is just too constant.
GrayFoxPL
Member
EVO, really? I've seen it. What was so fantastic about those matches?
I don't like the game after I've seen enough of it to make an opinion, not from a concept. I always give a chance for something to change but if it stay the same or goes worse after first 100h of footage, I won't be suddenly optimistic for no reason.
Nobody will believe me but it's the first game in the series that makes me fall asleep watching. Before second match ends I'm uncontrollably yawning. It never happened before. I wish I was trolling.
Even now I have little hope of some new version of the game turning things around but it's not gonna happen will it?
MikeBreezy92
Member
Yo from the very beginning you did not like the TR influences, rage arts or Power crushes. Then of course the other issues with the game popped up and that turned to border line confirmation bias. You don't like the game so why do you expect so much out of something you don't like to its very concept, nothing will change your mind unless they all the back on everything they did and that's not happening. I know you love the series but its legit to understand that T7 might not be the game for you. Everyone needs to understand that.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Tekken 7:ZR is being anounced in about a month or so & all you guys can talk about is 7.0. :/ No hope for the future huh?
Harada said no Tekken 7 announcements until around Spring 2016 after SFV is finished releasing (from what I remember), which is even more infuriating because Tekken 7 got revealed a year before SFV.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I can eat crow, I'd eat it. There is no reason. Nothing changed from the game since the alpha. This game doesn't grow. I'm not counting thieving players on shitty items as growth.
Why do I expect so much? Why do I bitch so much? Because I love Tekken. From the first time I saw the tiny screens on harsh paper in one of the first polish gaming magazines and the words: "Rave Wars"......... then Tekken("Oh, that's much better!").
I complain because I care for something that's been with me most of my life.
Did Tekken 7 kill my dog? No. But the staleness and lazy ass copy pasting to the point of insult is something that bugs me. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this. If something is on a plate with my bitching then we'll see it in the next game or T7:XX.
No one "out there" will ever give two shits about what I think, even if I did gave my heart and soul for this series. But maybe there's someone who thinks similar and who's words do matter.
Harada might not care now about fans like me, but we were the ones who put him where he is now. By buying everything-tekken for 20 years. You better fucking remember us Harada.
Do you understand now, Mike? It's not like you think that I want to hate T7 and I set myself on it. The more I want to love it, the more I seek good shit about it - the more I'm disappointed. I want it to be good, no, more - I want it to be the best. The greatest fighting game. Not some unimaginative, stale, boring piece of copy pasted game. For the love of God put some heart into this game, designers!
That's why I'd wish for something like fresh, new VF6 to suddenly appear and crush Tekken 7 like a cockroach. Not because I love VF more - it's fucking great but fuck if I do. But if this happened then maybe these old ass stale minded T7 designers would actually stop and scratch their heads:
"Oh... Maybe we should put some effort too now."
I know what you're saying Mike. "It's not for you. Deal with it."
I can only answer: "After 20 years, I can't."
Funny you should mention that. Here's something new that Ling can do in T7 for free if blocked (near a wall or not):
Which kinda illustrates the point I was making earlier after having played for several months - there are more "Tekken-ish" additions, changes and adjustments than some who haven't played give it credit for.
Sure, the game is certainly more of an evolution instead of a revolution, and we already talked about the pros and cons of re-inventing the game vs. simply releasing a new franchise. But that doesn't mean the sequel is a stagnant update. I'll say again that a lot of the things in this game are subtle but potentially significant, and altogether add up to a enjoyable refinement of the Tekken formula.
For instance, here's the last response Manbig posted to a quote of mine on this very point (I said the the T7 back spring kick and toe kick adjustments from knock-down position forces you to adjust your okizeme strategies):
This is simply not accurate. Moreso than any other Tekken, a fallen opponent is better equipped to deal with aggressive okizeme. These are two of at least five anti-oki techniques Namco added, changed or tweaked that you will have to look out for or some of your old wake up tactics will be blocked or interrupted. The back spring kick comes out significantly faster (for those that can access it - i.e. Steve can't do it) than before and has a lot of priority. As I watch T7 matches, I can sometimes "see" players aware of this move as they instinctively zone it in order to evade or punish it should it come out. Other times I see it interrupting in situations where it would have been too slow in earlier games to work.
With the toe kick, it was barely worth trying except to end a round because even on hit, you were at a significant frame disadvantage right in front of your opponent. Now? I've seen high level players use it with their backs to the wall of all places because even then the game rolls them backwards to a much safer situation.
Of course okizeme is still very potent, and plenty of setups can still deal with these defensive buffs. But the overall benefit to the game is that it is definitely easier than before to defend against oki, which means players will take less damage while rising on average, which ultimately means more action occurs with both players on their feet (which is good IMHO).
Lastly, I should have responded to your post here earlier, but I accidentally wiped it and didn't feel like re-typing it, lol.
Honestly, I think the basketball analogy works half-way decently.
Of course real life will always offer more than what's possible in any game. NBA2K is considered one of the best sports titles in videogames, but even it can't offer "limitless potential for innovation" for obvious reasons. Still, to me one reason Tekken is a blast compared to most 2D fighters (as an example) is that the huge move lists offer a lot more opportunities for discovery and innovation of custom setups. Lei Wulong alone has more moves (400+) than some fighting games' entire cast put together!
One might argue that most moves are useless, and there is a point to that except for one thing: in T7, more ignored moves are a bit more useful because of how sidestep/sidewalk were nerfed. A player can't simply evade 85% of a movelist as easy as before with step cancels. This opens up possibilities with each characters movelists while still retaining the usefulness of 3D evasion. Subtle, but significant.
Anyway, my point about b-ball and Tekken was that after the awkward early starts, they both settled into what is pretty much the same thing for years with added tweaks here and there. Tekken 1 and 2 are like the first few decades of basketball, where they played with peach baskets with closed bottoms, and once you had the ball you couldn't move - only pass or shoot. Dribbling didn't come until later.
Like T3, basketball eventually became at least 80% of the sport that that is recognizable today. The three point shot and the 24-second rule are major advancements, just as sidestep/walk and walls were in Tekken. But overall, most of the game is pretty much the same. None of us here have fully mastered the characters we play, and in T7, your winning potential increases if you learn how to mix your old tactics with the subtle but significant changes the new game offers.
As I said before, like Counterstrike, basketball, etc., I see nothing wrong with evolution over revolution. But I will say, I like some of your ideas, and maybe the home version will flesh out Power Crushes and Rage Arts a bit more. Perhaps give everybody at least two of each for different strategic uses.
Though, there is already a decent variety in how they are implemented between the characters. Lili's PC is potentially very dangerous as it is mid and gives a full juggle for armor crushing an attack, but it guarantees an opponent juggling her if it is blocked. You would go at her differently if you knew the player could throw it out, vs. how Yoshi's flash PC is used (only dangerous in close), which is different from the properties of Ling, which is safe but is high and doesn't juggle.
As for RAs, Paul can cancel his mid animation to create better combos, Jin and Steve's RAs are so fast that they can punish whiffed jabs (but are high for balance), Lucky Chloe's is a high crushing ultra.
No, none of this is overwhelming. But I maintain that it doesn't have to be in order to add enjoyment to a franchise that is fundamentally a ton of fun even without these new mechanics. They are just icing on the cake at this point. If one is looking for major changes and a lot of purely new stuff, then yeah, they will be disappointed.
Not to take away from these other games, but it is easier to do significant overhauls to 2D fighters when they have comparatively fewer moves than Tekken characters. To me, it is exciting playing with the tools that the Tekken characters already have since discovering "my optimal response to his effective set up" and vice-versa is never ending and filled with good times.
I don't outright reject anything being completely new, and depending on what it is I may welcome it. It's just that the absence of some whizz-bang new feature is not as big of a deal to me as it may be to you and others simply because I feel there is still plenty to learn and do with the returning Tekken gameplay, as well as enough interesting stuff to work with in the T7-only gameplay tweaks.
Well, as I continue to point out, there are far more T7-only "Tekken-ish" updates than some realize, and I don't feel an evolving game has to incorporate a ton of never-seen-before features to be a legit sequel (i.e., almost all sports games, competitive games like Counterstrike, etc.). In all those cases, a developer could simply tweak an existing game as you say instead of releasing a sequel.
Honestly, either way is fine for me. A number in the end is just a number. I just enjoy playing Tekken.
I guess I can't respond until I too have played it like you have. I'll have to wait until 2017 to see if the T7-only Tekkenish updates are as substantial as it seems. But on the topic of the sport analogy... if the current Tekken 3-6 system really is basketball and people want to play basketball you can always go back and play that sport, it's not going anywhere. When I see a company with as much money as Namco come and set out to make a brand new product I do want something new. Like basketball, I can always go back and play the games from the that era. They're not going anywhere. It all feels like such a wasted opportunity.
But at the very least, you have to at least agree that the presentation is very lackluster. The magnitude of re-working to characters done in Tekken 7 is by far the smallest amount seen ever in a numbered sequel for the series history. Even Tekken 5 and Tekken 6 which again are based off TTT1/T3 had their characters almost always have a plethora of new attacks and animations that really evoked a next generation level sequel. The biggest offence is how Namco flat out refused to do simple things that were staples in previous Tekkens. The bound replacement in this game only has one animation while the T6-Bound and TA animations were taken care of regardless of the orientation. The 2P outfits are taken out. The stages are missing so many effects like the snow trails that were already in Tekken 6. All these things were missing in the location tests too and I assumed everything would be added in the final release. Boy was I surprised
Also, why does that RA of Xiaoyu work? Shaheen should be able to still block while being at disadvantage?
We're spoiled from the era when Tekken was the most popular, best reviewed, and most uncompromisingly detailed fighting game in the industry
How am I just seeing this?
GrayFoxPL
Member
Dude, Kaz & Pachi have the coolest tag stuff.
If my Jinpachi playstyle didn't remind a dog trying to ride a motorcycle, I'd rock this team.
lol
Yeah, I'm just shocked I don't remember ever seeing this tag throw before. And this game has been released for 3+ years.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I want to get back into Tekken.
They need to release the new one so we can get news of the next one already!
They need to release the new one so we can get news of the next one already!
GrayFoxPL
Member
When I saw that Kaz and Miguel have one I thought: "Why I never saw this?" and then: "Wait. WHY does Kaz and Miguel have a tag throw?! What's the connection?!" Lol.
Ruthless
The more I keep seeing stuff like this.................
oh lordy
Link to this throw?
I also did't know Kaz and Miguel have a throw.
lmao
I'd rather this franchise just died off for some time and they work on a new IP after Tekken 7.
They pretty much exhausted the gameplay system with TTT2 and seem to be creatively bankrupt as to what they can do next, which is probably why they just copied the features SFIV introduced (i.e. ultras and focus attacks).
First time seeing that too. lol.
Arrh why my hair don't shine like dog's balls too?
Oh, because I wash it.
#Tekken7GreasyHair
Vaseline hair that were glued together.
That should aptly describe it.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Kaz too fast for 60fps!
Oh and I don't agree with killing off the franchise but a new traditional one would have been nice.
They could call it Rave Wars.
Damn... I just watched One-Punch Man Episode 4 a few minutes ago... and this quote fits perfectly with this one scene haha.
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