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[djtiesto]

Saw this article via "Clicked" on MSNBC... was a pretty interesting read, as a fan of some of this stuff... It's just basically a bunch of different imagined utopias and their downfalls.

The 10 Stupidest Utopias

 

[Doth Togo]

I think this writer tosses in the Internet as #10 because he lost so much money in the stock market. Sore loser!

 

[Triumph]

The Postwar American Suburb

Historian Robert Fishman calls American suburbia a "bourgeois utopia," whose hopes for community stability were founded "on the shifting sands of land speculation," backed up by racially discriminatory covenants and lending standards. The postwar American suburb, each a Nueva Germania of the soul, organized men's life around commutes and women's life around the home: the result was absent fathers, isolated mothers, and alienated children, who seldom knew anyone of a different race. In providing for the material needs of the growing middle class, the suburb created social and spiritual cavities that numerous social movements—from the 1960s New Left to today's Christian fundamentalism—have tried to fill.

According to census data, today the middle-income suburb is actually disappearing, drowning between the Scylla of racially exclusive gated communities and the Charybdis of ethnically diverse subdivisions. The poorest suffer from a lack of public services, lousy schools, and little in the way of parks or squares that might provide some sense of community. The most affluent suburbs are often populated by "relos," executive nomads who move every few years to keep their careers on track, never putting down roots, never investing in the community beyond the gated neighborhoods in which they own their homes. "There's no there there," said Gertrude Stein; the American suburb is still the definitive "no place," an empty parking lot sitting where our past and future should be

*whistles innocently*

 

[Fragamemnon]

The snip Raoul clipped above about American suburbia is priceless. They do have a point about the middle income suburb-for the most part, the classical form of this suburb is disappearing and being replaced by either the gated/McMansion communities or medium income folk-often of various racial and socioeconomic background-moving into reasonably nice communities with housing prices in the low to mid 100's or less.

The race is basically on (pun intended) for whitey to move out of the latter communities and either into the McMansion gated communities or out into the exurbs, where they can construct their sound defenses "for their children" against black and brown people with sheer land mass. The McMansion option is more desirble and, with rising amounts of home equity from the real estate boom and flexible mortgage options, it's within the feasible range (though they will be seriously shit out of luck when their dismal savings rates hit and almost all of their savings is tied up in the home and mortgage).

 

[Doth Togo]

The snip Raoul clipped above about American suburbia is priceless. They do have a point about the middle income suburb-for the most part, the classical form of this suburb is disappearing and being replaced by either the gated/McMansion communities or medium income folk-often of various racial and socioeconomic background-moving into reasonably nice communities with housing prices in the low to mid 100's or less.

The race is basically on (pun intended) for whitey to move out of the latter communities and either into the McMansion gated communities or out into the exurbs, where they can construct their sound defenses "for their children" against black and brown people with sheer land mass. The McMansion option is more desirble and, with rising amounts of home equity from the real estate boom and flexible mortgage options, it's within the feasible range (though they will be seriously shit out of luck when their dismal savings rates hit and almost all of their savings is tied up in the home and mortgage).

I disagree. For the US, fuel prices will send people back to the cities as people will not afford to commute from some of the far-outlying suburbs or have a social conscious and not want to drive as far.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I disagree. For the US, fuel prices will send people back to the cities as people will not afford to commute from some of the far-outlying suburbs or have a social conscious and not want to drive as far.

I don't agree with this, having lived in the South all my life where the suburb is a long-lasting implementation of apartheid and segregation. People will simply buy more efficient cars and travel less, or spend more on energy, than live with the colored folk and have their precious little snotdemons spoiled by the evils of multiculturalism and diversity.

 

[BigGreenMat]

The snip Raoul clipped above about American suburbia is priceless. They do have a point about the middle income suburb-for the most part, the classical form of this suburb is disappearing and being replaced by either the gated/McMansion communities or medium income folk-often of various racial and socioeconomic background-moving into reasonably nice communities with housing prices in the low to mid 100's or less.

The race is basically on (pun intended) for whitey to move out of the latter communities and either into the McMansion gated communities or out into the exurbs, where they can construct their sound defenses "for their children" against black and brown people with sheer land mass. The McMansion option is more desirble and, with rising amounts of home equity from the real estate boom and flexible mortgage options, it's within the feasible range (though they will be seriously shit out of luck when their dismal savings rates hit and almost all of their savings is tied up in the home and mortgage).

I think you are hitting too much on the racial ideas (which are everywhere in this article) and less on the ideas that the suburbs are a spiritual black hole that sucks out any sort of individualism or expression from the people who reside there.

 

[Doth Togo]

I don't agree with this, having lived in the South all my life where the suburb is a long-lasting implementation of apartheid and segregation. People will simply buy more efficient cars and travel less, or spend more on energy, than live with the colored folk and have their precious little snotdemons spoiled by the evils of multiculturalism and diversity.

The rich will move out of the suburbs, price out the poor from the cities and send them packing.

 

[Triumph]

The rich will move out of the suburbs, price out the poor from the cities and send them packing.

Well, that's certainly been happening in Atlanta. But the Atlanta area is so fucking sprawling that it's tough for Whitey to move even FARTHER out into new exurbs. So gentrification it is!

 

[Synth_floyd]

LOL I love how they always love to throw the race card out there. Suburbs are racist! But I do believe that suburbia is on the way out, mostly due to peak oil.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Gentrification has other issues, mainly that, even in wealthy city areas, you can't shelter yourself away from the working poor and minorities completely.

I think it is and will continue to be more popular with the godless young urban hipster professionals (buying condos/townhomes in gentrified neighborhoods) moreso than the current Dear Leader/Jesus Loving nuclear family types that make their nests and breed prolifically in the suburbs.

A lot of white collar folk are doing what they can to beat the cost of long commutes with mobile offices and carpooling, often a mix of both.

 

[Fragamemnon]

LOL I love how they always love to throw the race card out there. Suburbs are racist! But I do believe that suburbia is on the way out, mostly due to peak oil.

Have you ever lived in a medium to large sized Southeastern city?

 

[Doth Togo]

Have you ever lived in a medium to large sized Southeastern city?

Charlotte. Boone. Raleigh.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Togo-I wasn't referring to you-your arguments are pretty well reasoned, I just don't agree with them that much. I was asking Synth_floyd with that one.

The suburban environment of the former confederate states and that of the the rest of the country is really, really different, IMO.

 

[Synth_floyd]

The issue isn't race, it's money. Just like with the New Orleans thing, it wasn't the black people and minorities who were left behind but the poor, who just happen to be minorities.

 

[Hitokage]

The issue isn't race, it's money. Just like with the New Orleans thing, it wasn't the black people and minorities who were left behind but the poor, who just happen to be minorities.

That would only be true if everyone had an equal chance of starting out poor to begin with, as if a magic wand was raised and everything made right. Geographic segregation has a LONG legacy, and wealth is what perpetuates such effects of past institutional racism.