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The Mega-Cave Shooter Post, because they're totally awesome and sweet

B

British Monsoon

Member
GUWANGE! Fuck yeah, hopefully we'll get more Cave on XBLA - i'd personally love Dangun Feveron, ESP Ra.De or Progear, they'd all be great fits for XBLA.

Also, whatever happened to that patch Cave and 5bp were talking about for DDP on the 360?

*edit, just read the full article and it says 5bp claim that Microsoft is testing the DDP patch now!
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
hipgnosis said:
Fuck yeah for Guwange XBLA. Hope it will be available outside of Japan too.
Click to expand...
typically xbla releases are universal i believe
i wonder how they'll figure out a solution for high score initials if it is though
 
J

jlevel13

Member
May 27th for DeathSmiles II - it really is CAVE overload this year!

The Guwange port is said to include three modes - Arcade, Cave Festival "Blue" Version and a new arrange mode that uses dual stick control(?!)
 
L

LiK

Member
jlevel13 said:
May 27th for DeathSmiles II - it really is CAVE overload this year!

The Guwange port is said to include three modes - Arcade, Cave Festival "Blue" Version and a new arrange mode that uses dual stick control(?!)
Click to expand...
Won't be region free tho :'(
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Here's the cover and some info I saw posted over at the shmups forum;

PV85kqrmaP8FGmC6zwRl95l1yQLMGK1Z.jpg


Changes from the arcade version:
-7 stages total (2 more than the arcade version)
-2 new characters (Follett and Rosa)
-Updated graphics (16:9 mode)
-New bosses

Other stuff:
-The LE comes with a DLC code for an arranged soundtrack
-Release date: May 27th!
-Region locked, you'll need a Japanese 360 for this one.
Click to expand...
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Death Smiles 2 will get me to fix my J360 or buy a new one :( Better start saving up $400.

Since Guwange is XBLA, I bet it'll come out in the US really fast. Really bummed that Ketsui/DS2 are going to be region locked and then eventually the Cave game I really really want (after EspII, which was my most wanted) DDP Daifukkatsu.
 
M

mjemirzian

Banned
STG said:
yeah I laughed too, considering it is much harder than mushi futari for example :)
Click to expand...

There is a secret Mushihimesama Futari achievement for killing crazed larsa (ultra mode tlb) which is much more difficult than anything in Espgaluda 2.

Not to rain on anyones parade, but Death Smiles 2 is Cave's first fully 3D game and it is one of their worst. The arcade version has been through 4 revisions (it's at 4.0 now) and most expert shmup players still dislike it. They will have to do some serious tweaking if they want it to match up to their other shmups. Just look up some youtube vids of the game if you don't believe me.

Ketsui on the other hand is considered one of their best ever shmups and I really hope it's region free. I don't believe how overpriced it is to get an import 360 arcade still.
 
C

Chiaroscuro

Member
_dementia said:
in ds2 the girls are younger?
Click to expand...

No, slighter older. But there is a new younger character, the boy in the front center of the cover (yes, he is a boy) which is the brother of one of the girls.
 
O

Oyashiro

Member
Haven't been keeping up with the thread at all, so I'm just trying to see if I have this right:

Espgaluda II is out already and it's RF
DeathSmiles is coming to the US in April

Is that correct? I read somewhere that Cave is gonna stop doing RF releases for a while, so does that mean that DeathSmiles will be the last shmup we get here in the states? (through either RF or retail release in NA)
 
E

epmode

Member
The idea is to stop region free releases in the hopes that they will be picked up by Western publishers. I will do unspeakable things if these games aren't released here, BTW.
 
C

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oyashiro said:
Haven't been keeping up with the thread at all, so I'm just trying to see if I have this right:

Espgaluda II is out already and it's RF
DeathSmiles is coming to the US in April

Is that correct? I read somewhere that Cave is gonna stop doing RF releases for a while, so does that mean that DeathSmiles will be the last shmup we get here in the states? (through either RF or retail release in NA)
Click to expand...

Almost right.

- Only the normal edition of Espgaluda II is RF, the Limited package is not.
- There is no fixed date for the US release of DS, but we can assume it will come until the middle of the year (I am guessing May-June).
- Cave said the this (Espgaluda II) should be the last RF game for a while, we think it is because of their licensing for US releases contract (which means that we will get more Cave US releases).
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
mjemirzian said:
Not to rain on anyones parade, but Death Smiles 2 is Cave's first fully 3D game and it is one of their worst. The arcade version has been through 4 revisions (it's at 4.0 now) and most expert shmup players still dislike it. They will have to do some serious tweaking if they want it to match up to their other shmups. Just look up some youtube vids of the game if you don't believe me.
Click to expand...

Watched some vids and yeah from what it looks like I can imagine hating this game.
For one thing it's ugly. Now I know Cave's penchant for rendered graphics isn't beloved by everyone but DS2 looks terrible. It's got that unnatural look that reminds me of Shikigami No Shiro or some other similar piece of garbage.

Also apparently scoring is based around using some forcefield to make bullets follow the player around until I dunno a multiplier hits or something. It looks incredibly boring.

I can see why this game has been ported relatively early quite clearly now.
-The first is probably Cave's most successful console port.
-Nobody in the arcades likes it.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
PepsimanVsJoe said:
It's got that unnatural look that reminds me of Shikigami No Shiro or some other similar piece of garbage.
Click to expand...
hey
SnS games aren't exactly gorgeous but at least they're fun to play.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
I dunno. There's a lot of hate on DS2, but a lot of people weren't big fans of DS.

DS is my favorite post-Espgaluda-era Cave game. So even if DS2 is a little worse (it's not like the pre-rendered sprites in DS were great looking in the first place) I'm still pretty excited. It may sound silly, but I like the little bits of story inserted into DS to give the appearance of an actual plot and likable characters. I liked the branching endings and thought the end dialogue along with the vocal theme was touching. I also like the horror homages (and now xmas ones in DS2).

It sounds odd, but I don't play shmups entirely for the gameplay. That's 80% of it, but the presentation/graphics/music/theme are the other 20% and DS1 nailed that 20% very well and the DS2 trailers and vids give me a similar vibe outside of slightly worse visuals. So I'm still looking forward to it with excitement.
 
D

danmaku

Member
PepsimanVsJoe said:
Watched some vids and yeah from what it looks like I can imagine hating this game.
For one thing it's ugly. Now I know Cave's penchant for rendered graphics isn't beloved by everyone but DS2 looks terrible. It's got that unnatural look that reminds me of Shikigami No Shiro or some other similar piece of garbage.

Also apparently scoring is based around using some forcefield to make bullets follow the player around until I dunno a multiplier hits or something. It looks incredibly boring.

I can see why this game has been ported relatively early quite clearly now.
-The first is probably Cave's most successful console port.
-Nobody in the arcades likes it.
Click to expand...

After they updated the scoring system, took out the boss milking and added a few stages I read some positive comments about the gameplay. The main complaints were that the game was too short (only 4 stages) and the scoring system was broken, but both problems should be solved now. The graphics still sucks but I expect at least a fun game.
 
A

Arpharmd B

Banned
The problem I have with DSII is that it is a visual downgrade from 1.

High res animated 2d, even if it's that weird CG 2d, still looks better than Dreamcast era 3d.

But, they are just visuals. I love the first Death Smiles. I still need to get caught up here, what an overload.

Also I came in here to ask: What ever happened with the big DoDonPachi Daijou patch? Did that ever get worked out? I really love DoDonPachi, and really I want all the cave shmups even the 5bp ones like Ketsui and DDP.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
iconoclast said:
They are still working on the DOJ patch and it should hopefully maybe probably not be almost done. The patch was delayed after consulting with MS and finding out the issues were deeper than they thought...


http://mihara.sub.jp/top/blog/sb203/log/eid10506.html

:lol
Click to expand...

Wow. I feel bad for Mihara and the people involved. Porting Cave games on hardware as strong as the X360 should not be this difficult and life destroying.

Cave really should just outsource everything to M2 after the amazing job they did on Futari.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Guys, I want to buy a 20" (max 25") LCD/OLED/whatever just to finally play all my shooters in proper TATE mode.
Can you help me out with suggestions? I don't know where to start, I don't think that just going out to buy any tv would be a good fit, so maybe there's something that enthusiast are using (relatevely cheaper, hopefully).
 
T

TheFLYINGManga_Ka

Member
Cave Story is a good shooter! :p

Anyway, back to topic, Cave is okay and their games are real cool!

But it's tough for me to acknowledge that manic shooters/bullet-hell are good game design though. I don't know if it really is to be honest. It's just a crapload of bullets on the screen.

They're hard, pretty fun, and cool, but is it really good game designing as a SHMUP?

It's arguable to me.
 
R

RagolSlayer

Neo Member
TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:
Cave Story is a good shooter! :p

Anyway, back to topic, Cave is okay and their games are real cool!

But it's tough for me to acknowledge that manic shooters/bullet-hell are good game design though. I don't know if it really is to be honest. It's just a crapload of bullets on the screen.

They're hard, pretty fun, and cool, but is it really good game designing as a SHMUP?

It's arguable to me.
Click to expand...

Call me biased, but it's :lol to see somebody criticize bullet hell shmups for having bad game design simply on the basis that "it's just a crapload of bullets on the screen." Many shmups certainly are a lot deeper than that, in my opinion.

play more CAVE shmups
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Every time I see this thread come back up it feels like a punch in the gut knowing what I'm missing out on. :(
I want these games so much...but I'm not willing to throw money away on a JP 360 with no warranty (plus having 3 consoles is just too much for me). I'll always have my ps2 copies of DOJ, Espgaluda, and Mushi though!

*curls up into a ball and rocks back and forth, whimpering softly*
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
luka said:
Every time I see this thread come back up it feels like a punch in the gut knowing what I'm missing out on. :(
I want these games so much...but I'm not willing to throw money away on a JP 360 with no warranty (plus having 3 consoles is just too much for me). I'll always have my ps2 copies of DOJ, Espgaluda, and Mushi though!

*curls up into a ball and rocks back and forth, whimpering softly*
Click to expand...
*pets*
100_5182.jpg
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Eh no it's not arguable. The bullet-hell has been successful since the mid-90s and to this day it's the sub-genre of choice for nearly every arcade and indie shooter-dev out there.

The amount of bullets really don't mean anything. A game like Image Fight, Truxton 2, or Gradius 3 arcade is still more difficult than the average Cave shooter and those games use maybe 5% of the number of bullets. It's all in how they are used. With Cave titles most of them they're window dressing and the only bullets you really have to worry about are the ones that are inches away from your ship.

The reason bullet-hells are so successful is that they can provide a more constant feeling of excitement as the tiny hitbox on the player's ship allows them to effortlessly weave through gobs of bullets. Furthermore the system allows for more creative designs when it comes to scoring. This leads to techniques like bullet-canceling(destroy enemy bullets for bonus points), grinding(or whatever the term is for when bullets touch the ship but not don't result in death..leads to bonus points or whatever), absorbing bullets for points/special attacks(large number of games) and so on. Would you want to play a game like Mars Matrix with bullet levels similar to something like Twin Cobra or ThunderForce III? I can't imagine why.

Even non-bullet hells like games by Raizing carry manic similarities due to their scoring systems and such(large focus on medal-chaining, which means lots of flying around to catch everything).

But feel free to say it's arguable. It doesn't make any sense and makes you come off as ignorant but whatever's whatever.

BTW
Read on shmups forum that Death Smiles US is apparently due on June 29th...at least that's what Aksys is hoping. They're also planning an LE though no idea what's going to be in it.
 
T

Tain

Member
But it's tough for me to acknowledge that manic shooters/bullet-hell are good game design though. I don't know if it really is to be honest. It's just a crapload of bullets on the screen.

They're hard, pretty fun, and cool, but is it really good game designing as a SHMUP?

It's arguable to me.
Click to expand...

You're gonna have to go into a hell of a lot more detail than that.
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:
Cave Story is a good shooter! :p

Anyway, back to topic, Cave is okay and their games are real cool!

But it's tough for me to acknowledge that manic shooters/bullet-hell are good game design though. I don't know if it really is to be honest. It's just a crapload of bullets on the screen.

They're hard, pretty fun, and cool, but is it really good game designing as a SHMUP?

It's arguable to me.
Click to expand...
I don't see what the problem is here. Also bullet patterns are a lot more intricate than your giving them credit for, and factoring the different techniques for dodging certain patterns requires a bit of skill. You can pick up pretty quickly, you really just need to figure out how find the safest path out of that rain of fire, factor in bullet speed, and curse your 360 dpad for being inadequate for this.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Dash Kappei said:
Guys, I want to buy a 20" (max 25") LCD/OLED/whatever just to finally play all my shooters in proper TATE mode.
Can you help me out with suggestions? I don't know where to start, I don't think that just going out to buy any tv would be a good fit, so maybe there's something that enthusiast are using (relatevely cheaper, hopefully).
Click to expand...

I take nobody plays TATE mode in here? :/
 
T

Tain

Member
I rotate my 23 inch ASUS LCD, but it's not even on a mount. It's pretty ghetto, the way I do it; the top side (well, top side after rotation) of the monitor leans against my computer desk's overhanging part, and the bottom is held in place by a textbook, lol.

Works pretty great for me, but it could be better.

When I can, though, I play shit on my 15hz RGB CRT monitors. One is horizontal, one is vertical.
 
D

danmaku

Member
luka said:
Every time I see this thread come back up it feels like a punch in the gut knowing what I'm missing out on. :(
I want these games so much...but I'm not willing to throw money away on a JP 360 with no warranty (plus having 3 consoles is just too much for me). I'll always have my ps2 copies of DOJ, Espgaluda, and Mushi though!

*curls up into a ball and rocks back and forth, whimpering softly*
Click to expand...

Mushi Futari and Espgaluda 2 are region free, Death Smiles is coming (at least in the US) so there's only Ketsui left out. Even if future Cave games won't be region free you can still play some of Cave's best games on your PAL/US 360 and you'll need A LOT of time if you want to master them.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
So now that people are saying Daifukkatsu is the next game getting ported I've caved
=P
and decided, against my better judgement, that once I get some extra cash I'm gonna get a Japanese 360 arcade. No idea where I'm gonna put it but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I am weak. :lol

...That is unless someone can convince me it's ok to just play DOJ and Espgaluda for the rest of my life. That would be awesome.


EDIT: Unless it's really easy to region-change a US 360. I don't care about xbl as I'd just be in it for Cave stuff anyway.
 
D

danmaku

Member
Cave (well, Mihara) said that there are only 2 more ports ahead, and Daifukkatsu was a big arcade hit (for a shooter) so it's obviously the n°1 candidate for a port. The other recent games that could be ported are Pink Sweets, Muchi Muchi Pork and Ibara Kuro, and none of them was as successful and well known as Daifukkatsu. As for the second game... who knows? :D

p.s. if you like DDP DFK or Death Smiles 2 so much, go on and buy a japanese 360 but if I was you I'd play the hell out of the region free games before buying another console.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
danmaku said:
p.s. if you like DDP DFK or Death Smiles 2 so much, go on and buy a japanese 360 but if I was you I'd play the hell out of the region free games before buying another console.
Click to expand...

I don't have a 360 at all so I might as well get the one that allows me access to all of the games I'm interested in. The only thing that concerns me if the reliability/warranty. I hate supporting region locked products in this day and age but even I have limits. :(

Also from what I've seen/heard of Pink Sweets it scares the hell out of me. :lol I'd love to give it a try though.
 
I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
luka said:
I don't have a 360 at all so I might as well get the one that allows me access to all of the games I'm interested in. The only thing that concerns me if the reliability/warranty. I hate supporting region locked products in this day and age but even I have limits. :(

Also from what I've seen/heard of Pink Sweets it scares the hell out of me. :lol I'd love to give it a try though.
Click to expand...
Well as someone who was convinced to buy a 360 solely because of Cave games. I'd say go for it and pick up the standard edition releases of the games for some prime time fun! (I'd do this myself, but I'm too much of a consumer whore and want everything in the LEs.)
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Do the 360 ports support TATE in both left and right configurations? I use a 24" monitor alongside my main screen as a dedicated TATE screen and it only tilts clockwise. DOJ and Espgaluda have only a counter-clockwise TATE mode, but since I play them emulated it's easy to just flip the screen in my video card's control panel.
 
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