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[RaySpencer]

Read this cool article or whatever you want to call it about the drive for photo-realistic games (saw it on Shacknews), was a pretty cool read ...i will warn you that its kinda long though

http://modetwo.net/users/nachimir/vga/

So how is our progress toward photo-realism? We obviously aren't there yet and won't be for some time to come. Take anything that's currently at the leading edge of the photo-real push, such as Project Offset or Unreal Engine 3. You'll certainly find some very pretty and visually impressive stuff, but it's still not quite good enough to dupe. Despite claims of cinematic quality, you can still see polygonal outlines on models, if you look. Photo-realism will have been achieved when, as a photographer and level designer, I can swap those two parts of my portfolio and actually fool people.

Katamari Damacy:

The designers of this faced a problem, in that they needed to populate a scaling world with many hundreds of objects. PS2 poly budgets meant that they could only use simple 3D objects, and this limitation was turned into a strength, infusing the bright, iconic, vaguely cubist aesthetic style at all levels.

[...]Arguably, Katamari Damacy is also a good example of the aesthetic being tied more deeply to the game. The simple, almost child-like visual style is a good complement to the basic game mechanics of rolling around collecting stuff, and also the childishly joyous and simple storyline.

This whole article was pretty much spot on how i feal about games today, i mean its great to see some games push twards realism, GT games, or really any "sim" is great...i want those to look real, as they are trying to BE real. but other than that, the games i love are the Ultimate Spiderman's, the Fzero's, the Smash Bros', the Katamari Damaci's, the Jet Set/Grin Radio, the games that can take a touch of realism, but then expand on it and create true art.

These are the real games to me, something like Rez is fantastic, i loved that game to death on my Dreamcast, purely for art and how it was a totaly new type of game. XIII (sorry to take the ones directly from his list, but they were my favorites too! ) is another game i loved to play purely for how it was designed and put together, the FPS part of it is hardly ground breaking, but the way the story unfolds through panels like a comic, and how the Cell Shaded graphics make the gameplay feal differant even though its really not, is amazing to me.

Like he says in the article, i hope we can achive photo-realism soon, so that we can start expanding and reaching for differant more exciting goals.

Edit: No one is even clicking this...so i have to move to drastic measures !! title change from "The Quest for Photo-realism" to "HL2 Graphics are boring"

Edit2: didnt work le sigh

 

[madara]

Like he says in the article, i hope we can achive photo-realism soon, so that we can start expanding and reaching for differant more exciting goals.

Yeah I agree. The sooner we get over the fact that we need photo realism in every damn game in order for it be "mature" "swank" and sell well the better off we'll be. It would be nice if we could go back to appreciating games more like paintings and other artistic scenes.

 

[Miroku]

Yes, this is a good read.

 

[RaySpencer]

Yeah I agree. The sooner we get over the fact that we need photo realism in every damn game in order for it be "mature" "swank" and sell well the better off we'll be. It would be nice if we could go back to appreciating games more like paintings and other artistic scenes.

yeah exactly ...there is a place for realism, and i love it there...but pushing for it everywhere is kinda anoying

 

[Wunderchu]

cool, thanx for the heads up

 

[Gek54]

Yeah I agree. The sooner we get over the fact that we need photo realism in every damn game in order for it be "mature" "swank" and sell well the better off we'll be. It would be nice if we could go back to appreciating games more like paintings and other artistic scenes.

I think you missed the point, the push for photorealism is to increase immersion. The less it looks like a videogame the easier it is for people to relate to image on the screen.

 

[Borys]

That looks pretty real to me:

 

[RaySpencer]

That looks pretty real to me:

Looks close, but still not 100%

 

[TTP]

Man, imagine a GTA like that.

 

[Liquid]

lol. thats nowhere near real. WTF. real CG looking. :lol

 

[MetatronM]

That looks pretty real to me:

The only things in that that look even close to real are the things that are waaaaay in the background. Everything else looks extremely fake.

 

[Liquid]

yeah. looks like a painting if anything.

 

[thorns]

we're quite far away to have this kind of quality real time. and even offline, i think we're pretty far away still, when it comes to having photorealistic humans/animals...

 

[J2 Cool]

No duh games aren't at a real life level yet. CG's not even there yet. They nail some aspects, and some modeled things are nearly indistinguishable. It still looks amazing and surreal though when you see really great, well done CG. They take aspects of life, exaggerate some, simplify others, and create things that we don't see in real life. They try to be real in possibility, but don't strive for naturalism. Animated features that is. And just because something goes for a semi-real style, something that could exist, doesn't mean it's going going all wrong about things. That's ridiculous. I mean, I love Katamari, Rez, Wind Waker, etc. But I also love the look of the Metal Gear Solid series, Devil May Cry 1, ICO, and Twilight Princess. You don't think they're grounded in realism? We don't need to rebel against attempting photo-realism. I am glad they are attempting it, as there is always art styles based within reality. And that's what I think a lot of these games are going for. Like a movie, a visual style be extremely impressive.

For me, it's all about variety, and I think at the moment a lot of it exists. We got Kingdom Hearts II, Kameo, PGR3, Okami, MGS4, and Crackdo... pfffft! :lol I love that game. But the point is, we got all these in production. Open your eyes and quit rebelling against the nature of the business right now. There's a hell of a lot of good being done realistic or "art" as he'd say. The new tools and systems allow both to advance right now. Imagine a world where Final Fantasy The Spirits Within and Toy Story are both made. Except Final Fantasy being an actual bad ass game and not the unwanted child of Final Fantasy lovers. In fact, mature realistic games are almost needed more so than "artistic" games, simply because there is no place for a mature CG movie these days. Only roles in live action where they're supposed to blend rather than express themselves. Which leads to stylized CG when they rebel and thus, unrealistic CG not up to T2 and Jurassic Park's bar. CG and videogame artists, in the actual sense, are not made for labor of emulating real life.

I think this columnist underestimates them for the simple fact that the worlds and style of some of these games is possible. It's not that simple. If you were to actually open your eyes to where games could go, I think it would lead you to a much uncharted area. One that Yu Suzuki and Hideo Kojima seem to be the only ones stepping on. Take a look at the much underrated and misunderstood Shenmue. It's entirely virtual. Every room is stacked with thought. Items laid logically to create a real, but virtual world. Nothing to be ashamed of creating. Many items are interactable. Some invoke memories of the characters childhood. And you get scenes so real yet so nostalgiac when you have that much thought put into it. Beat the game once and come back to it. The visuals you remember may be the most subtle things. An old man sleeping with his cat laying next to him, a garden you come back to every virtual day to where you relate it to the experiences. The biggest embarassement that 'videogamers' should feel is not welcoming Shenmue as something 'different'. Something supposedly this columnist is interested in.

In MGS4 meanwhile, Hideo Kojima has mentioned over and over doing what really isn't noticed. He mentions that videogames are being made like movie set pieces, and he wants us to move away from that. Create not scenes, but living, breathing worlds. And some may dismiss it as a cliched line, "living, breathing worlds". But it really is the next step. Weather patterns that change, wind blowing dust throughout a level, grass and trees growing over time, new seeds planted. Hell, put us in unreal situations, make it real, and virtually let us live it! That is something I want to see and you bet I'm in a rush to get there. The future in my opinion, is creating videogames as their own distinguished medium. The concern over games getting to real is a waste of time. There will always be variety and individualism. Get over that and open your eyes to what games really could be. That's what I think.

 

[Amir0x]

That looks pretty real to me:

Doesn't look close to real, but holy shit I wish visuals were there right now 'cause THAT would be NEXT-GEN GTA OMG

 

[civilstrife]

Doesn't look close to real, but holy shit I wish visuals were there right now 'cause THAT would be NEXT-GEN GTA OMG

Hmm... Would it be at all possible for PS3?

Probably not as a GTA type game, but I think as a single scene like that demo.

 

[Borys]

Hmm... Would it be at all possible for PS3?

Probably not as a GTA type game, but I think as a single scene like that demo.

The problem is - nobody wants to play (tech)demos. Tech demos SUCK because they show you, in REALTIME, what will be available in 5 years

Very, very annoying.

Oh and I forgot to add "looks pretty real for a real-time image" ;p

 

[DEO3]

I too used to feel the constant push to make games more and more life-like was in vain, but I've come to learn that there's a place for graphics in gaming. For instance, the Gran Turismo series is one of my favorite game series', and the life like graphics are what make the games so great to me - but that doesn't mean I require all my games to have a similar focus on graphics. I don't care if Gran Turismo doesn't have the epic story of a RPG, just like how I don't care if my RPGs have the life like graphics of Gran Turismo. There's a place for graphics in gaming just as there's a place for epic stories (RPGs), twitch based action (fighters), stategy (puzzles), etc. - different genres require different things, and so therefore there's a place for all of them.

Interaction (gameplay), immersion (graphics/sound), entertainment (stories), art (style), etc. (etc.) are all things that make up gaming, and trying to push gaming as a whole in any one particular direction (in this case, better immersion), or likewise rejecting any particular direction(s), is bad. Instead we should be striving to push gaming into all directions, and the good news is that seems to be happening. There's more genres now then ever, and the future doesn't look any less bright. There will continue to be Katamari's and Advance Wars' and Wind Wakers', games that will choose style of over substance, and that's good - great even. There will continue to be games like Metal Gear and Final Fantasy, games that focus greatly on telling thier story, and that's good - great even. And there will continue to be games like Gran Turismo, where graphics play a major role in what they are, and that's good.. great even.

 

[madara]

I think you missed the point, the push for photorealism is to increase immersion. The less it looks like a videogame the easier it is for people to relate to image on the screen.

Aye and that was my point and what I thought OP was trying to say. Too many "adult" males that feel their penis will fall off if they play a game that does not mimic real life in a visual sense. Zelda WW, even WOW to a degree. All pieces of art I've never had any problem getting visually immersed in but get flack from a group of people that somehow think that particular art style is "kiddie". Actually I think it shows those folks are limited in their creavity when they have to have every game mimic their everyday life. I want to escape to another world, to a fantasy, not just earth and earthlike physics all the time. I'm mostly speaking visually though.

 

[D3VI0US]

I can't wait until we hit photorealism cause once that happens devs will stop chasing it and actually focus on creativity especially in design and gameplay! Just a couple gens away!

 

[Hitokage]

Wow.

 

[RaySpencer]

Aye and that was my point and what I thought OP was trying to say. Too many "adult" males that feel their penis will fall off if they play a game that does not mimic real life in a visual sense. Zelda WW, even WOW to a degree. All pieces of art I've never had any problem getting visually immersed in but get flack from a group of people that somehow think that particular art style is "kiddie". Actually I think it shows those folks are limited in their creavity when they have to have every game mimic their everyday life. I want to escape to another world, to a fantasy, not just earth and earthlike physics all the time. I'm mostly speaking visually though.

Yeah, see this is what im talking about, games that are visualy amazing and have loads of artistict value, like Wind Waker and WoW get pushed aside by people to easily for silly reasons. I realize that it could be pretty hard to change ignorant peoples minds so that they enjoy those such games, but what i dont want to see, is devs backing away from these things just to avoid the flames.


Twilight Princess looks amazing, and i cant wait to play it, but i will be really sad if i cant see a new Zelda game with Wind Waker'ish graphics, perhaps not those specific models, but ive seen someone on this board with an older Link avatar thats done in Cell Shading and it looks amazing.


...oh and those CG Ikea looking pictures are fucking wicked

 

[Red Blaster]

The Alfred Molina PS3 render is pretty damn photo-realistic.

 

[sprsk]

That looks pretty real to me:

These shots dont come even remotely close to looking real.

 

[Deku]

There's a place for photorealistic games in the industry. What concerns me is the assumption by many people, even in a hardcore forum like this one, that if it looks real it must be better.

90% of the games I have played in my entire life would look better stylized than real even if it was running on a hypothetical superconsole that can scale the graphics of old games to look photorealistic.

I don't want all my games to look real. To be fair though, the drive for realism seems to be the province of a large group of developers concentrated mainly in the west. So there are still other developers like Blizzard who would freely break this obsession over realism and go for functional and good looking graphics.

 

[thorns]

these ones (and the ikea shots above) use maxwell renderer, it's a renderer based on physics of light, and it's probably extremely slow (a frame probably takes a couple of hours?). maybe someone more into 3d can help with that?
Maybe in two generations we can have hardware that can do that kind of rendering in real time..