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The Source Code (MUST READ)

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silver

Banned
One of the most intriguing stories I have read in recent times is that of the Source Code.

You can find lots of articles about it if you Google it, but here's what I typed up.

This is the story of a Dutch electrician named Jan Sloot - an average Joe-type - who was working on a revolutionary compression technology that would reduce the size of video and audio by a factor of 2,000,000. He spent 20 years of his life working on it.

A few years ago, Sloot reeled some investors in. They were non-tech people and invested their money in a leap of faith. One of his investors contacted Roel Pieper, former CEO of Tandem, a computer company of some sorts that was sold to Compaq for $3.5 billion. Pieper, by that time a corporate bigwig at Dutch electronics titan Philips, gave Jan Sloot 20 minutes of his time to demonstrate the 'source code'. Sloot, very afraid of the possibility that his compression code might be stolen, went to Amsterdam with his investors and met with Pieper. Along with him, he brought a small box, no larger than 5 packs of cigarettes, and a formatted bank card, like this:

bankpas.jpg


See the data storage thingy? It's the gold square onder the word 'Europas'. It holds 64 kilobyte of data. Jan Sloot shoved the card into the small box, played 16 full movies simultaneously and even played with the playback speed etc. Simply said, Pieper's mouth fell open and the only words he could utter were "That's it".

Soon enough, Pieper, who had a lot of contacts in the US, took Sloot, his investors and the mysterious device to the States. Sloot kept the device with him at all times, paranoid of what could possibly happen. Pieper took Sloot and his technology to the likes of Charles Wang (Computer Associates), Tom Perkins (Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers) and spoke with the likes of Bill Gates. He tried to get as many companies on board for the new software to make as much money as possible.

Back in Holland, they went to bank giant ABN Amro and received a sum of 50 million Dutch guilders to start up a company built around the Source Code. The company was called The Fifth Force, Inc. One night, in Roel Pieper's house, Sloot showed off his software one last time and Tom Perkins said to him, "Mr Sloot, you are going to be the richest man on earth". Predictions showed that within 4 years, Jan Sloot would have more than $100 billion in his bank account.

For a few weeks, Sloot worked on a description of his software (for the software only existed in the device and in his head) that he had to give to a notarist. One day before the deal was going to be sealed, one day before the invention of the century would become unstoppable, one day before Jan Sloot was going to receive 50 million in his bank account, Sloot dies of a heart attack in his backyard.

His office, usually very messy, was found cleaned up. The device was gone and the notes were gone. Who took it? No one knows. Some say it was Pieper. Some say it was Sloot's son. One thing is for sure: the Source Code was buried along with Jan Sloot.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
I couldn't tell if you were describing a real story or a book you just read or what.
 

border

Member
I had only read a little bit about this before. I think the guy was just a crackpot or charlatan that managed to get some heavyweight financial backers. Can someone find a reliable article about the whole affair?

http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/p.spronck/Sloot.htm

I think Jan Sloot really believed he had found a way to compress movies to one kilobyte. Probably he had imagined something as the alien's stick, something that would be theoretically possible in an alternate world, with infinitely divisible particles, but impossible in our reality. He probably lacked the mathematical insight to see that his 'invention' was a farce. In his prototype, he faked his invention, which is why he refused to let anyone near it, and answered only in mystical vagueness to questions. He probably imagined that, with enough money, he could get his invention to work for real. He probably did not feel himself a charlatan or a crook, but an honest businessman, who needed a starting capital to create the world's greatest invention, make some people incredibly rich, and win a Nobel prize.

What truly amazes me is that a man as Roel Pieper, who is a professor of Computer Science no less, could fall for his story, to the point where he invested a huge amount of capital. If his role in this story is really as reported in the media, his credibility as a computer scientist has been seriously tarnished. In my opinion, the University of Twente, with which Pieper is associated, should at least perform an internal investigation, to assess whether Pieper's position can be maintained.


KobunHeat said:
As opposed to all those true urban legends.
There are lots of true urban legends.

www.snopes.com
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
So a random guy with no mathematical background spends 20 years developing a magical digital media storage and compression system in his garage that somehow is able to compress 2690GB worth of A/V data (16 2 hr movies at dvd resolution uncompressed) into 64 kilobytes and with neglible computation to boot....


:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Hitokage said:
So a random guy with no mathematical background spends 20 years developing a magical digital media storage and compression system in his garage that somehow is able to compress 2690GB worth of A/V data (16 2 hr movies at dvd resolution uncompressed) into 64 kilobytes and with neglible computation to boot....


:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol


what, you dont think he did it?

sorry youre gonna have to do a little more than that mister "logic".



peh!
 

silver

Banned
Um, guys, this is all very real.

Sloot got support from all the heavyweights in the industry. A bank like ABN Amro also doesn't just give EUR 25,000,000 credit to some crackpot.

Do you not think that in the future, compression technology WILL get as advanced as this? Could it not be that Sloot was ahead of his time? A man like Roel Pieper, a man like Charles Wang, they wouldn't fall for some kind of trick. If you read more detailed stories on this, you will know that people from Philips and some companies in Silicon Valley studied this device.

Let's also not forget that one Swiss office clerk who went on to become the greatest scientist of his age... what was his name again? Oh yeah. Einstein.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
silver said:
Um, guys, this is all very real.

Sloot got support from all the heavyweights in the industry. A bank like ABN Amro also doesn't just give EUR 25,000,000 credit to some crackpot.

Do you not think that in the future, compression technology WILL get as advanced as this? Could it not be that Sloot was ahead of his time? A man like Roel Pieper, a man like Charles Wang, they wouldn't fall for some kind of trick. If you read more detailed stories on this, you will know that people from Philips and some companies in Silicon Valley studied this device.

Let's also not forget that one Swiss office clerk who went on to become the greatest scientist of his age... what was his name again? Oh yeah. Einstein.
Appeal to authority and the Einstein name drop that's required in defending any crackpot.

Do you not think that in the future, compression technology WILL get as advanced as this?
Do you lack any sense at all? No matter how advanced compression may get, it still must mathematically describe the original to an acceptable degree. What this guy is promoting is a method to recreate the Last Supper with a connect-the-dots of 4 points.
 

silver

Banned
Are you all-knowing? You sound like an ignorant, pretentious semi-expert. I bet you haven't looked it up with Google, some articles explain how it works (well, at least the basics). Who am I going to believe? Computer technology guru Pieper or HITOKAGE FROM TEH GAYMING AGE FORUMS?

So a random guy with no mathematical background spends 20 years developing a magical digital media storage and compression system in his garage that somehow is able to compress 2690GB worth of A/V data (16 2 hr movies at dvd resolution uncompressed) into 64 kilobytes and with neglible computation to boot....

Yeah. Have you not heard that story about a young Dutch boy whose hobby was playing around with electronics and found a way to increase the lifespan of Philips light bulbs by 300%? Same thing. You don't have to be a scientist in a white coat to discover something revolutionary. Who are you to say that this is bullshit? Because if it's true, then obviously you don't know jack shit about it, or else YOU would have 100 billion bucks now, right?
 

ManaByte

Member
cubicle47b said:
This is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. Computer Science mysticism?

This sounds like either a chain letter or a new 419 scammer email trying to get people to send money to discover who stole the source code.
 

border

Member
Google versus Smart Guy On A Message Board is a pretty even fight for credibility :lol

I googled "Jan Sloot" and all I got was a bunch of sweedish language crap and the page I already linked....which ripped his whole invention apart as a fraud/crackpot attempt at the impossible.

Even though Sloot claimed that one kilobyte was enough to store any movie regardless of its length, the question is warranted whether a system as defined by the SDCS is possible for movies of a limited (but realistic) length. The answer is no. One kilobyte is 1024 bytes, and a byte can take 256 different values. With a code of one kilobyte, to represent any movie up to 90 minutes in length, on average a byte must be able to distinguish between all possible sequences of about 5 seconds. Can a sequence of 5 seconds of any movie at all be identified with a number between 0 and 255? Of course not.

Why are the prototype and source code destroyed? Either family did it to protect his estate from litigation over defrauding investors, or the Pieper guy did it himself to prevent the destruction of his reputation and credibility.

EDIT: Even Manabyte doesn't believe this, and he'll believe anything =P
 

silver

Banned
ManaByte: No, dude. It's a true story. There's a possibility that the software doesn't exist, but the story is 100% true.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
This is a laugh riot.

Are you all-knowing? You sound like an ignorant, pretentious semi-expert

You're the ignorant one. This is 100% BS. Comparing the compression of nearly 3000GB of varied data into 64KB is a few universe-spans away from extending the life of a lightbulb by 300%. Go read up on how data compression works.
 

silver

Banned
Right. Read up on it. Sloot had a completely NEW way of compressing data.

BTW, it's been on all major, serious television shows in Holland (so I've read).

But everyone, tell me, HOW do people like Pieper, Wang and Philips and CA scientists fall for a crackpot trick? Because the one thing that is certified 100% true is that both Philips and CA BELIEVED Sloot. Which is an amazing feat if it was all just a trick.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
What the fuck does tripling the efficency of a lightbulb have ANYTHING to do with promoting a mathematical absurdity? Look, I know how video and audio compression schemes roughly work, and there's only so far you can push it before losing an unacceptable amount of information... and this guy puts it 10,000 times smaller than the worst mp3 encoding. EVEN IF you discard all existing methods, how the hell are you going to describe a couple terabytes worth of information, ANY information, with only 64 kilobytes? HOW?

Maybe you should stop being so dazzled with fancy titles like COMPUTER TECH GURU and actually understand the underlying concepts of the matter at hand.
 

silver

Banned
I just said that he turned the whole concept of data compression upside down. As I have said, if you knew how it worked, YOU would be the guy with 100 billion dollars now.

Explain it to me. How did those computer science people fall for it? Why would a major worldwide bank like ABN Amro give a crackpot 25 million euros?
 

border

Member
This isn't really compression technology. If you want to berate silver, at least read up on how it was supposed to work. The client software has a large source file of audio and media, and then a movie is "generated" on the fly by inputting a number that is 1-8Kb.

It is not simply compressing a movie down to a few kilobytes.
 

silver

Banned
Morts said:
Because he played them simultaneously, not back to back.

Right. Actually, the meeting ended up taking a few hours because Pieper and his scientists were amazed, I forgot to add that to the story.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Listen to what border said. One byte of data, a sequence of eight 0s and 1s, 256 possibilities, has to account for FIVE SECONDS of movie footage. 120 high resolution still frames. By one value.
 

silver

Banned
EviLore said:
Listen to what border said. One byte of data, a sequence of eight 0s and 1s, 256 possibilities, has to account for FIVE SECONDS of movie footage. 120 high resolution still frames. By one value.

All very well, but I respect the opinion of Philips and Computer Associates scientists way more than yours. Read up on it and then come back.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
silver said:
I just said that he turned the whole concept of data compression upside down. As I have said, if you knew how it worked, YOU would be the guy with 100 billion dollars now.

Explain it to me. How did those computer science people fall for it? Why would a major worldwide bank like ABN Amro give a crackpot 25 million euros?
Again, appeal to authority. People fuck up, regardless of status. You're drawing dead in this argument.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
border said:
This isn't really compression technology. If you want to berate silver, at least read up on how it was supposed to work. The client software has a large source file of audio and media, and then a movie is "generated" on the fly by inputting a number that is 1-8Kb.

It is not simply compressing a movie down to a few kilobytes.
An NES can do the same thing, so what?
 

silver

Banned
Hitokage said:
Again, appeal to authority. People fuck up, regardless of status. You're drawing dead in this argument.

Funny that dozens of people fucked up then. Why should I believe you over industry leaders?
 

calder

Member
I am also going to have to believe the word of Philips and Computer Associates scientists and some bank over your paltry logic, common sense and basic math.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Silver, the people challenging you are citing factual evidence here. You're falling into a logical fallacy (as hito pointed out), nevermind the sensationalist aspect of the news story. This is just another Cold Fusion affair.
 
silver said:
All very well, but I respect the opinion of Philips and Computer Associates scientists way more than yours. Read up on it and then come back.

You're expecting a lot of message board goers who come here to kill time more than anything else. If you expect someone to believe that a revolutionary idea like this could exist, then you're the one who should be handing out the information instead of telling us to seek it ourselves.

“If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence.” -- Bertrand Russell, Roads to Freedom

Give us something better than a half assed chainletter, with no empirical evidence, and some might consider the possiblity that Sloot's the real deal.
 

border

Member
Hitokage said:
An NES can do the same thing, so what?
Well I don't think it's really like that. An NES cart houses the actual sprites, though I guess stuff like MIDI music is technically generated on the fly. In this scenario, everything is just a piece of a number referencing some stored bit of data in the source file (a sound or a color).
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I dunno. I'm not one to dismiss this type of thing, but it all sounds way too far fetched. Right before he was gonna make boatloads of cash, he dies? Did they autopsy the body? And where would this money be? The story leaves a few too many loose ends and the fact that it was so much of a secret up until he died makes it quite unbelieveable.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
silver: Did you hear the word 'gullible' has been removed from the dictionary? (Along with the words 'rational' and 'thought' from your copy, apparently.)
 

jett

D-Member
:lol OMG, holy shit. silver, read the article border linked to, then LEAVE this thread and never come back, for your own good.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
border said:
Well I don't think it's really like that. An NES cart houses the actual sprites, though I guess stuff like MIDI music is technically generated on the fly. In this scenario, everything is just a piece of a number referencing some stored bit of data in the source file (a sound or a color).
They aren't stored as you see onscreen. Sprites are broken up into chunks that are assembled and colored on the fly, then arranged on a similarly generated background.
 

border

Member
Here is a very technical description of what Jan Sloot was working towards:

http://www.endlesscompression.com/

Could this ever work, in any form? Maybe not movies as a few kilobytes and source files as a few hundred megabytes....but maybe 200MB movies and 1 TB source files? The debunking article is good, though I'm not sure how solid some parts of the rhetoric are ("A source file can't account for every movie because there's an infinite number of movies possible" Huh?).
 
This almost sounds like an MMORPG where the information sent and the information seen on screen is very different. The information telling what other players are doing is sent to your computer so that your computer can visually make a representation of it as opposed to having the 3d images et all sent to it. Obviously, there's a big difference between a game with defined number of variables, and the infinite number of possibilities movies have.
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
microsoft_snipe1.jpg


"Mockingbird to Redmond Base. Target is pacified."


Two months later...

microsoft_snipe2.jpg


"Today, Microsoft is pleased to announce the next great revolution in computers: Windows Media Player 11 now with our updated video compression codec..."

Give me a break. 64KB probably wouldn't be enough for the computer of 200 years from now to draw a movie using vector instructions. Even if he were somehow able to compress a movie that much, could you imagine the sheer computational power necessary to decode it? It doesn't exist.
 
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