The whole manual vs automatic car debate thing
- Thread starter zhenming
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thesoapster
Member
Paddle shifting, when well implemented and designed, is giving the driver a way to shift quicker than with a regular manual transmission. However, transmissions like the Smart Car's are slower than what can be done with a standard. Paddle shifting comes from racing. The Ferrari Enzo has paddle shifting, too 
edit: And since the driver still controls exactly when to shift, a well-designed paddle shifting system still gives the driver some level of control more than an automatic.
2nd edit: Even if an automatic transmission can make a gear change quicker than a standard, it still decides when to shift for you. For best control/overall performance (like in racing), the driver must be be able to control when and where the car shifts in the rev range.
edit: And since the driver still controls exactly when to shift, a well-designed paddle shifting system still gives the driver some level of control more than an automatic.
2nd edit: Even if an automatic transmission can make a gear change quicker than a standard, it still decides when to shift for you. For best control/overall performance (like in racing), the driver must be be able to control when and where the car shifts in the rev range.
Phobophile
A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
Aren't we getting to the point where automatic clutches can engage faster than a manual clutch?
It used to be that a Manual transmission did indeed give the driver more control...and, in a way, it still does. But automatic transmissions these days are a lot faster and, more importantly, smarter. Since the car can detect and react to things a hell of a lot faster than you can, a good automatic transmission will be superior to you having to travel the gear shift from position 2 all the way up and over to position 3.zhenming said:
already surpassed that point . combined with less fuel consumption, DSGs are the future.Phobophile said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-clutch_gearbox
Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o
Valkyr Junkie
Member
zhenming said:
Depends. Those type of transmissions can either be based around manual or automatic transmissions. And 99% of those 'step/tiptronic' transmissions are garbage. The ones like in R35 GTRs or 'exotics' are infinitely more better/sophisticated.
thesoapster said:Paddle shifting, when well implemented and designed, is giving the driver a way to shift quicker than with a regular manual transmission. However, transmissions like the Smart Car's are slower than what can be done with a standard. Paddle shifting comes from racing. The Ferrari Enzo has paddle shifting, too
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE RIGHT!! That's what I hate most about the car.. the transmission is just awful until you get used to it, makes you miss a clutch!
I always preferred having a gearstick of some sort, makes you feel more "in control" (even the smart has one)
Phobophile said:
Yes, not to mention the inherently complicated physiological nature of manual shifting which in itself adds valuable microseconds to the process.
Bluntly if you invented stick-shifting today and showed everyone, they would stare at you like you were mental and you'd be laughed out of the auto industry.
Not to mention the fact that 99% of all stick advocates basically do nothing more racey than early shifting from stop lights. AND in this country at least (USA), about 70% of the manual shifts I hear are very poorly timed, and the tendency by drivers to roll backwards down hills in sticks is pretty horrific and common (I grew up and lived in Europe most of my life, where I hardly ever saw this, since European drivers call the handbrake the handbrake, not the "rarest of emergencies device").
However, part of driving is having fun, and if you have fun and at least imagine a better sense of control with a stick and clutch arrangement, then more power to you.
The clutch is obsolete and needlessly complicates the controls. God knows how many accidents have been caused by someone fucking up the clutch and lurching forward or looking down at their feet.
I don't understand why it wasn't imeediately phased out once automaitcs were invented. We didn't keep the manual crank once we invented the starter motor and car key.
my foreign friends from ze East don't understand why our cars have clutches. it's like a novelty to them.
I don't understand why it wasn't imeediately phased out once automaitcs were invented. We didn't keep the manual crank once we invented the starter motor and car key.
my foreign friends from ze East don't understand why our cars have clutches. it's like a novelty to them.
Freestyler
Member
I'm all about DSG. Got my 2007 Golf GTI Edition 30 a couple weeks ago and I'm digging the paddles on the steering wheel - so much better to just change down a gear to slow down on a big hill rather than sitting on the brakes for 500 metres.
Plus when you put your foot down, the gear changes are seamless and you can barely feel the gears changing (I hate manual drivers who make a big show about changing gears and do the whole lurch thing on purpose).
Also, for those saying that the engine decides for you - if you put DSG cars in Sport mode, it gives you a lot more control as the engine's not gagging to change up a gear to keep revs & fuel usage low.
Plus when you put your foot down, the gear changes are seamless and you can barely feel the gears changing (I hate manual drivers who make a big show about changing gears and do the whole lurch thing on purpose).
Also, for those saying that the engine decides for you - if you put DSG cars in Sport mode, it gives you a lot more control as the engine's not gagging to change up a gear to keep revs & fuel usage low.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I've never driven an automatic but they seem vastly more easier to control so if the majority of cars were available with an automatic option then I'd go for it.
Also, what is paddle shifting?
Also, what is paddle shifting?
I love shifting manually, I drove a hybrid Civic once for work and it was so weird with the automatic, not to mention the Enterprise dashboard. I dunno, it's probably personal, but to me most of the fun of driving is in the shifting, controlling the revs and gear changes. I really hope it won't dissappear but it seems like automatic is the future =/ It's easy, but it basically turns driving into gas + steering, which is lame imho.
gutterboy44
Member
The biggest performance difference between auto and manual is during braking. No matter how fast auto trannys get they will never give you the engine braking when properly downshifting. Flappy paddles are shit unless they are on a expensive sports car that can make the gear changes fast. Hitting a paddle and having that delay is the worst.
Freestyler
Member
gutterboy44 said:
You must be pretty cheap if you consider a GTI an 'expensive sports car' - my gear changes are instantaneous when paddle-shifting or using the 'tiptronic' stick to shift up/down. It's awesome for braking.
santouras said:
I reckon it's the opposite - so many new luxury cars have things such as infra-red night vision and adaptive cruise control that make it near impossible to crash into the person in front of you. Computers have a reaction time far quicker than that of humans.
gutterboy44
Member
Freestyler said:
By your standards it might seem fast but I still find them a bit mushy. Also triptronic doesn't allow for heel toe down shifts which are incredibly fun. Full manual is a much more involved and "intimate" interaction with the car. I don't like the passive feeling of driving auto.
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
Zenith said:
If you're looking at your feet when driving then, well you shouldn't have a license. Don't blame manual cars for driver retardation.
The Orange
Member
Cyan said:
Exactly. To me, a car is a mode of transport, the less I have to do to get from point A to B, the better. If I could just input where I want to go, and the car would drive itself, I would be the happiest man alive.
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
The Orange said:
It's called a Taxi.
SIP YEK NOD
Banned
It's called a busThe Orange said:
speculawyer
Member
Manual. Period. Automatics are for wusses.
If you don't want to shift, then buy an electric car.
If you don't want to shift, then buy an electric car.
The Orange
Member
NinjaFridge said:
SIP YEK NOD said:
Uhh, yeah, which is why I use those two already, but you have to pay more for a cab, and you need to wait for a bus. So, yeah, not really.
Phobophile
A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
The Orange said:
Like the cars in Minority Report but not stupid looking.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
What is half of this nonsense? Most accidents are manual drivers that look at their feet? Or stall and lurch forward everytime they move? Where do you get these made up statistics from? I also like the person who's never driven but says automatics are infinitely easier to control than a manual. This thread is worse than usual. :lol
BakedPigeon
Banned
Standard Transmissions FTW. I like being able to choose what gear I am in, helps a lot in certain situations. Plus it may sound weird but I like the fact it gives me something to do while I am driving.
Dark Octave
Banned
Manual for life, except in heavy traffic jams, then they can go to hell.
They should make a car that with the switch of a button can go from manual to automatic.
It'll only cost $200,000 for a Nisan Sentra with that type of dual tranny. You know you guys want it.
But yeah, I've never owned a car that wasn't manual and red.
They should make a car that with the switch of a button can go from manual to automatic.
It'll only cost $200,000 for a Nisan Sentra with that type of dual tranny. You know you guys want it.
But yeah, I've never owned a car that wasn't manual and red.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Core407 said:
Tiptronic is not manual... At all....
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
bionic77 said:
Completely agreed
.Dark Octave
Banned
I'm used to it. I was joking about the dual tranny setup. I'd never buy anything like that. I've only driven an automatic a few times and it just doesn't feel like driving to me.Core407 said:
If I go through long periods of time with light traffic and one day there is a jam, my left leg is a little sore afterwards but that's about it.
Yeah, doing the balancing act of holding the car still while on a slight incline without the break is a lot of fun.
SIP YEK NOD
Banned
Now imagine doing that with 18 gears, being constantly cut off by assholes in cars.bionic77 said:
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