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[LordOfChaos]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-doctor-suspended-botched-circumcisions-1.4953561

Among the complications, two boys were rushed to hospital with potentially life-threatening bleeds, one after a portion of his penis was amputated and the other with arterial bleeding.

Other boys experienced complications like swelling, pain, embedded gauze from improper wound care, possible infections and disfigurement.

At least one boy's penis was left so deformed he required a revision surgery.

Ahmad admitted to using an inappropriate technique and lacking knowledge, skill and judgment. He acknowledged he provided anesthetic at a "non-specific dose," used only alcohol swabs to sterilize the surgical site and did not suture after circumcision.

The removal of each patient's foreskin was done for cultural reasons and not insured by Manitoba Health, the college found.

"There's a difference between circumcisions done improperly and bad results," he said.

But the Toronto children's hospital sees anywhere from zero to five boys per week with some type of complication arising from a circumcision, he said, including issues with healing or otherwise unexpected results.

In severe cases, he's seen some children die as a result of complications. Those instances are usually linked to arterial bleeding, he said.

He said he's concerned there aren't more rules around performing circumcisions.

He will be able to resume his practice on March 15, 2019.

Well this is all very insane to me. He's going back to practice in March after almost killing two boys and disfiguring several more who will have to have painful procedures to fix the issues, and the cavalier attitude of the hospital admitting to deaths from this unnecessary procedure.

So...Probably don't go to Dr. Ejaz Ahmad.

 

[ipukespiders]

Words that should not be used together:

Tuna fish ice cream
Botched circumcision

 

[J-Roderton]

Holy shit.

It's gonna be one of those threads isn't it?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Admitted to lack of of knowledge and bad technique. So he was knowingly mutilating people, or am I not reading this correctly?

Returns to work in March. LOL

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's gonna be one of those threads isn't it?

Hopefully not, I mean, who at least wouldn't think there need to be very careful standards on risking boys lives in a medical procedure, the Toronto Children's Hospital admits there's a worrying lack of them for this procedure and kids have died of complications from it in that hospital (estimated 115-200 a year in the US).

Admitted to lack of of knowledge and bad technique. So he was knowingly mutilating people, or am I not reading this correctly?

Returns to work in March. LOL

Oh, and he also lied to the ER when he had to go there, said a "traditional man" had performed the procedure when it was him.

Guy is a total hack and a dangerous one, how he's going back to practice in March is insane.

 

[John Day]

He returns tonwork on March. That’s the worst of all of this.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Botched Circumcision. Dibs on the band name.

 

[badasstion]

Botch, please

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'm no crusader on the topic of infant male circumcision, but can we just stop doing it in the West unless you're a practicing Jew? I don't support government intervention for reasons of religious liberty, but as a culture it's time to stop.

 

[Azurro]

How about we stop it for everyone except for medical reasons? It really should be irrelevant how "cultural" it is, it should be a crime and prosecuted.

 

[E-Cat]

I don't support government intervention for reasons of religious liberty

Would you if it was female circumcision, though?

 

[Kadayi]

Enough with the mutilating your kids (whatever their gender) just because of *tradition*

 

[Geki-D]

unless you're a practicing Jew?

Why this exception (I assume you just don't know that it's a part of Muslim religion too)? It's about time Jews & Muslims moved away from bad ideas in their traditions. The doctor in this article was a practising Muslim doing the op for Muslim parents. If you're going to throw around exceptions then this doctor actually falls under it.

The fact is it's a human rights violation, children have a right to bodily integrity no matter the religion or other beliefs of their parents.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Even outside of the botch jobs and the lack of penalty for the doctor, this part is crazy to me. Here we are with a hospital admitting to up to five complications *every week* as well as the some over a hundred deaths per year from it, yet the practice still stands and this isn't even questioned in this paragraph. How about we just not?

But the Toronto children's hospital sees anywhere from zero to five boys per week with some type of complication arising from a circumcision, he said, including issues with healing or otherwise unexpected results.

In severe cases, he's seen some children die as a result of complications. Those instances are usually linked to arterial bleeding, he said.

 

[badblue]

The tamest of symbolic female circumcisions, a pin prick to draw a drop of blood is considered wrong and is punishable under the law, yet we still debate and tolerate the medically unnecessary removal of skin (which may be up to 12 square inches) from a boys penis. Something that is sometimes done without any sort of anesthetic because "baby's can't feel pain".

In the documentary American Circumcision, They went over a few of the tools used to remove the foreskin, and one tool was pointed out as easily capable of removing too much if the doctor was not careful. The tool is still in use despite the fact that it carries this risk.
One doctor reported that he fixed a botched circumcision at least once a week, and didn't think there was anything wrong with that.
A woman noticed that something was wrong after her child was circumcised. The doctors and nurses said that it sometimes happens and was normal. , and only found out that it was a botched circumcision the day before she taped her interview for the documentary because she saw it at a seminar on circumcision.

FYI, if you do decide to watch the documentary, a complete circumcision was filmed but is blurred out on netflix. It apparently is not on other platforms.

I'm no crusader on the topic of infant male circumcision, but can we just stop doing it in the West unless you're a practicing Jew? I don't support government intervention for reasons of religious liberty, but as a culture it's time to stop.

"Religious liberty" is not an excuse to allow harm to children. Unless you think that Jewish children don't deserve the same protections as non-Jewish children.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-doctor-suspended-botched-circumcisions-1.4953561








Well this is all very insane to me. He's going back to practice in March after almost killing two boys and disfiguring several more who will have to have painful procedures to fix the issues, and the cavalier attitude of the hospital admitting to deaths from this unnecessary procedure.

So...Probably don't go to Dr. Ejaz Ahmad.

???

Toronto is not in Winnipeg, and this doctor does not work out of a hospital. They reached out to a urologist in Toronto for comment.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I'm no crusader on the topic of infant male circumcision, but can we just stop doing it in the West unless you're a practicing Jew? I don't support government intervention for reasons of religious liberty, but as a culture it's time to stop.

And here we go! How about getting rid of the obvious lunatic who can’t do them properly? We’ve been circumcising for thousands of years now. One idiot isn’t going to stop it from happening. I’d go as far as saying pushing these articles have agenda written all over them.

"Religious liberty" is not an excuse to allow harm to children. Unless you think that Jewish children don't deserve the same protections as non-Jewish children.

Circumcision isn’t harming children. if you’re worried about pain then why do we all have proper belly buttons for the most part? Why not stop tying those up too? Absolutely no thought involved with some of you people.

 

[Renoir]

https://nypost.com/2018/11/27/kate-beckinsale-hops-on-the-penis-facial-trend/
"The dewy-skinned actress is just the latest Hollywood star to test out the EGF facial: a supposedly powerful anti-aging treatment that involves a serum derived from “Korean baby foreskins.Designed by aesthetician-to-the-stars Georgia Louise, the $650 experience involves a peel and microneedling, followed by a proprietary penis-infused serum."

There is big business in foreskin. Seems that its the source of youth for some. Is this one of the reason why doctors keep perpetuating that not having foreskin is the best way to be a clean male? Just came across this the other day, and now this thread.
Im trying to understand why is it so important to some, even trough tradition to have this procedure down to their off spring. It broke my heart when my son had to get checked for his jaundice.. and they had to prick his foot to draw blood. And this was done to ensure that he was in better health.
Circumcision, to my understating is done for supposedly aesthetics and tradition..

 

[royox]

Sigh, sometimes I think i'm so lucky for bein from europe and have my genitals intact and not mutilated.

 

[E-Cat]

Circumcision isn’t harming children. if you’re worried about pain then why do we all have proper belly buttons for the most part? Why not stop tying those up too? Absolutely no thought involved with some of you people.

Even a "properly" conducted circumcision will deprive them of a certain type of sexual pleasure as adults (from the 20,000 lost nerve endings of the foreskin), a decision they were obviously unable to contest.

And this is not even taking into account the possible effect on the frenulum, the most sensitive part of the penis, since virtually all modern hospital circumcisions are done on the clamping type methods (e.g., Plastibell device) that all terminate the frenular artery and nerve, completely defeating the purpose of the frenulum; and if there is any remnant, it is not as sexually sensitive as a frenulum should be. The frenular delta is an area the extends from near the meatus down the glans and off onto the inner foreskin in a triangular area. The part you see as a ridge is only a very small part of the frenulum. Infant male circumcision is the functional equivalent of removing a female's clitoris.

I would not only call that harmful, but tragic.

 

[Insane Metal]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-doctor-suspended-botched-circumcisions-1.4953561








Well this is all very insane to me. He's going back to practice in March after almost killing two boys and disfiguring several more who will have to have painful procedures to fix the issues, and the cavalier attitude of the hospital admitting to deaths from this unnecessary procedure.

So...Probably don't go to Dr. Ejaz Ahmad.

Holy shit!!! This part tho:

Ahmad admitted to using an inappropriate technique and lacking knowledge, skill and judgment. He acknowledged he provided anesthetic at a "non-specific dose," used only alcohol swabs to sterilize the surgical site and did not suture after circumcision.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Even a "properly" conducted circumcision will deprive them of a certain type of sexual pleasure as adults (from the 20,000 lost nerve endings of the foreskin), a decision they were obviously unable to contest.

And this is not even taking into account the possible effect on the frenulum, the most sensitive part of the penis, since virtually all modern hospital circumcisions are done on the clamping type methods (e.g., Plastibell device) that all terminate the frenular artery and nerve, completely defeating the purpose of the frenulum; and if there is any remnant, it is not as sexually sensitive as a frenulum should be. The frenular delta is an area the extends from near the meatus down the glans and off onto the inner foreskin in a triangular area. The part you see as a ridge is only a very small part of the frenulum. Infant male circumcision is the functional equivalent of removing a female's clitoris.

I would not only call that harmful, but tragic.

Where does the most pleasure come in sex besides being with your partner? Hint it’s not the flesh but the orgasm. Anti circumcision talk always has and always will be absolute nonsense. Believe what you want though. Just don’t expect those who don’t agree with your stance to sit in silence

Sigh, sometimes I think i'm so lucky for bein from europe and have my genitals intact and not mutilated.

Your belly button is mutilated though

 

[E-Cat]

Where does the most pleasure come in sex besides being with your partner? Hint it’s not the flesh but the orgasm.

I would say the initial stimulation from penetration after a long foreplay is almost equal. But then, I'm very sensitive /shrug

 

[AngularSaxophone]

No. Just no. You’re comparing a localized sensation of the flesh to one that is felt throughout your entire being. It’s not even comparable.

 

[E-Cat]

No. Just no. You’re comparing a localized sensation of the flesh to one that is felt throughout your entire being. It’s not even comparable.

But I do feel a tingling sensation all over my body. I also have nipples very delicate to touch. Do you want me to go on...?

 

[kingwingin]

Doctors can get away with murder here,

there was one a few years back that would prescribe oxy or something for blowjobs. Ended up getting caught and his punishment was he can't prescribe that drug anymore

 

[AngularSaxophone]

But I do feel a tingling sensation all over my body. I also have nipples very delicate to touch. Do you want me to go on...?

Nipples are sensitive. I know. Trust me on that one. As far as feeling a tingling sensation all over your body merely from insertion, that would be either absolutely rare or an extreme exaggeration.

 

[cryptoadam]

So basically this was an idiot doctor who didn't know how to do the procedure he was performing.

No shit people will get injured or worse. I ain't going to a dentist for a heart transplant. I aint going to a mechanic for knee surgery.

 

[ph33rknot]

religion is stupid just another way to devide us

 

[Geki-D]

Nipples are sensitive. I know. Trust me on that one.

 

[badblue]

Circumcision isn’t harming children.

You watch a child screaming while having it's foreskin removed, and then tell me it is not harming the child. It is a medically unnecessary procedure that needs to stop.

A belly button is not the same at all.

That little spot in the center of your belly marks the place where your umbilical cord once connected you to your mom’s placenta. When that cord is cut, a little, shriveled piece of it gets left behind. It eventually falls off—usually within the first week of a baby’s life—and what remains is a scar. Of course, “belly button” sounds a lot cuter than “belly scar.”

 

[Geki-D]

You watch a child screaming while having it's foreskin removed, and then tell me it is not harming the child. It is a medically unnecessary procedure that needs to stop.

Most of the time they're done without any anesthesia too. I'm actually surprised the doctor in this article at least tried to use some. I guess that's to his credit.

 

[The Incarnation]

Enough with the mutilating your kids (whatever their gender) just because of *tradition*

Imagine all the fuck ups in 500Bc.

 

[Kadayi]

Imagine all the fuck ups in 500Bc.

I'd rather not ....

 

[badblue]

Most of the time they're done without any anesthesia too. I'm actually surprised the doctor in this article at least tried to use some. I guess that's to his credit.

In the documentary, a doctor said that a local is often given, but most time the 5 minutes needed for it to take effect is not given. And even then, there are still signs that the infant can feel what is happening. I remember the last time I needed to get a local anesthetic, it was injected between my fingers and that hurt. And even after they gave it time to take effect I could still feel everything the doctor was doing. The shot just made it tolerable.

They also stated that there is almost a PTSD type response with boys that have been circumcised when they are given shots. The kids that fussed and cried the most were always ones that were circumcised.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

You watch a child screaming while having it's foreskin removed, and then tell me it is not harming the child. It is a medically unnecessary procedure that needs to stop.

A belly button is not the same at all.

Think what you want. I don’t follow those same beliefs, nor do many others and we never will.

 

[James Holden]

Gross. I'm fortunate I didn't have to go through this. Absolutely horrible that that doctor's resuming practice soon.

 

[Helios]

Circumcision isn’t harming children. if you’re worried about pain then why do we all have proper belly buttons for thel most part? Why not stop tying those up too? Absolutely no thought involved with some of you people.

Are you equating cutting your umbilical cord with getting a circumcision?

 

[LordOfChaos]

???

Toronto is not in Winnipeg, and this doctor does not work out of a hospital. They reached out to a urologist in Toronto for comment.

And? The urologist in the Toronto childrens hospital that they reached out to said up to five kids a week with complications come in and he's seen children die from it. Seperate from the case in Winnipeg, yes.

You're thinking something was confused that wasn't.

Circumcision isn’t harming children. if you’re worried about pain then why do we all have proper belly buttons for the most part? Why not stop tying those up too? Absolutely no thought involved with some of you people.

One of those parts will fall off by itself and serves no purpose shortly after birth, the other stays with men (and women - same part as the clitoral hood) through their adult lives. I'll let you guess which is which. To equivocate the two parts and call everyone else thoughtless...

It would be closer to ask "If you're worried about pain, why don't we stop chopping earlobes off?" - and hey, we don't! And the foreskin has more function than those do.


Besides that, some 119-200 children die a year in the US from circumcisions. I would call death harm.

http://www.cirp.org/library/death/

And here we go! How about getting rid of the obvious lunatic who can’t do them properly? We’ve been circumcising for thousands of years now. One idiot isn’t going to stop it from happening. I’d go as far as saying pushing these articles have agenda written all over them.

And here we go indeed. The CBC is fake news now because you don't like it reporting on the truth?

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Are you equating cutting your umbilical cord with getting a circumcision?

No. One marks a covenant with God, one is just cutting a cord. When I touch my belly button, it’s sensitive therefore whenever they cut it I must have felt pain as well but just as in my circumcision, I don’t remember it either. Don’t ask me anymore stupid questions. I’m done here.

 

[Helios]

No. One marks a covenant with God, one is just cutting a cord. When I touch my belly button, it’s sensitive therefore whenever they cut it I must have felt pain as well but just as in my circumcision, I don’t remember it either. Don’t ask me anymore stupid questions. I’m done here.

It's not "just cutting a cord" edit: although since you view it from a spiritual sense I can at least understand it even if I disagree completely. Also there's no pain in cutting the umbilical cord. It has no nerves.

 

[LordOfChaos]

No. One marks a covenant with God, one is just cutting a cord. When I touch my belly button, it’s sensitive therefore whenever they cut it I must have felt pain as well but just as in my circumcision, I don’t remember it either. Don’t ask me anymore stupid questions. I’m done here.

...How do you think cutting an umbilical cord works? It's not cut out of your belly where it's sensitive, the cord is cut or tied above it and falls off on its own, the cord itself has no nerves to feel pain.

Also you're focused entirely on the pain aspect, not the death and dismemberment this risks.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

yawn. Never mind.

 

[LordOfChaos]

yawn. Never mind.

Realized the analogy made no sense, eh?

 

[Helios]

yawn. Never mind.

Because it's still a wound that starts healing. Personally, I dont' actually feel anything special. It just feels like skin to me.
Again, You can view it from a spiritual perspective, I will view it fron a biological one. The umbilical cord has no use once you're born and can be a detriment, the foreskin is there to protect and there's no reason to cut it.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Realized the analogy made no sense, eh?

No. I said I was done. It’s pointless arguing with people who have no desire to understand. Waste of energy. I’ve said enough for those who have the desire to

 

[LordOfChaos]

No. I said I was done. It’s pointless arguing with people who have no desire to understand. Waste of energy. I’ve said enough for those who have the desire to

Those who desire to understand that a part that falls off on its own, the umbilical cord, is equivalent to any part of us that stays around? Or that you think cutting a cord with no nerves that would fall out of your belly on its own was painful because your belly button is sensitive?

No part of what you said made sense except for it being a religious reason for you, but you're acting like everyone else is an idiot for not understanding analogies that made no sense.

 

[olimariOA]

At best it's needless surgery that causes extraordinary pain to an infant with a non-negligible chance for complications.

At worst it's all of that AND genital mutilation that removes function that can never be fully restored.

I am circumcised, but my son is not.
I had the choice and thought it would be monstrous to do that to him just because everybody else is doing it.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Right on the heels of this, a baby boy has died of this unnecessary cosmetic procedure.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46671457

 

[badblue]

Think what you want. I don’t follow those same beliefs, nor do many others and we never will.

Almost everyone that think that this practice should continue are almost always people that had this done when they were infants. You can't miss what you don't remember having and if you start to accept that this harms boys, you'd have to come to grip with the fact that this harmed you.

It’s pointless arguing with people who have no desire to understand. Waste of energy.

I have said the same thing many times. It is truly frustrating to debate/discuss/argue with people that are closed to being challenged on their opinions.
This is one of those topics where my opinion is going to be immutable, but that does not mean I'm not willing to listen to the other side. But if the best you have is a specious comparison to the umbilical cord, it is probably best that we no longer engage on this topic.

It is the end of the year, so sincerely: Merry Christmas, and I hope you have a great Holidays.