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[AngularSaxophone]

You can't miss what you don't remember yet it's oh so painful right?

 

[olimariOA]

You can't miss what you don't remember yet it's oh so painful right?

There's measurable trauma to their young brains, but I guess you know better.

 

[badblue]

You can't miss what you don't remember yet it's oh so painful right?

Just because you cannot miss something that you do not remember having, does not mean the removal of that something was not painful.

Background Preliminary studies suggested that pain experienced by infants in the neonatal period may have long-lasting effects on future infant behaviour. The objectives of this study were to find out whether neonatal circumcision altered pain response at 4-month or 6-month vaccination compared with the response in uncircumcised infants, and whether pretreatment of circumcision pain with lidocaine-prilocaine cream (Emla) affects the subsequent vaccination response.

Methods We used a prospective cohort design to study 87 infants. The infants formed 3 groups -- uncircumcised infants, and infants who had been randomly assigned Emla or placebo in a previous clinical trial to assess the efficacy of Emla cream as pretreatment for pain in neonatal circumcision. Infants were videotaped during vaccination done at the primary care physician's clinic. Videotapes were scored without knowledge of circumcision or pretreatment status by a research assistant who had been trained to measure infant facial action, cry duration, and visual analogue scale pain scores.

Findings Birth characteristics and infant characteristics at the time of vaccination, including age and temperament scores, did not differ significantly among groups. Multivariate ANOVA revealed a significant group effect (P<0.001) in difference (vaccination minus baseline) values for percentage facial action, percentage cry time, and visual analogue pain scores. Univariate ANOVAs were significant for all outcome measures (p<0.05): infants circumcised with placebo had higher difference scores than uncircumcised infants for percentage facial action (136.9 vs 77.5%), percentage cry duration (53.8 vs 24.7%) and visual analogue scale pain scores (5.1 vs 3.1 cm). There was a significant linear trend on all outcome measures, showing increasing pain scores from uncircumcised infants, to those circumcised with Emla, to those circumcised with placebo.

Interpretation Circumcised infants showed a stronger pain response to subsequent routine vaccination than uncircumcised infants. Among the circumcised group, preoperative treatment with Emla attenuated the pain response to vaccination. We recommend treatment to prevent neonatal circumcision pain.

http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

The American Society for Pain Management Nursing (ASPMN) holds the position that nurses and the other healthcare professional must provide optimal pain management throughout the circumcision process for male infants. Parents must be prepared for the procedure and educated about infant pain assessment. They must also be informed of pharmacologic and integrative pain management therapies

http://www.aspmn.org/documents/Circumcision.pdf

To help in determining the degree of pain and stress caused by circumcision, infant response was compared to that resulting from other procedures. Levels of cortisol (a hormone released into the blood in response to stress) and behavioral responses were recorded for newborns undergoing circumcision, heel-stick blood sampling, weighing and measuring, and discharge examination. Circumcision resulted in significantly higher levels of behavioral distress and blood cortisol levels than did the other procedures. Since the infant is restrained during circumcision, the response to the use of restraint was similarly tested and was not found to be measurably distressing to newborns.

Circumcision is a surgical procedure that involves forcefully separating the foreskin from the glans and then cutting it off. It is typically accomplished with a special clamp device (see Fig. 2). Over a dozen studies confirm the extreme pain of circumcision. It has been described as "among the most painful [procedures] performed in neonatal medicine." In one study, researchers concluded that the pain was "severe and persistent." Increases in heart rate of 55 beats per minute have been recorded, about a 50 percent increase over the baseline. After circumcision, the level of blood cortisol increased by a factor of three to four times the level prior to circumcision. Investigators reported, "This level of pain would not be tolerated by older patients."

https://circumcision.org/infant-responses-to-circumcision/

Myth 2: It doesn't hurt the baby.

Reality check: Wrong. In 1997, doctors in Canada did a study to see what type of anesthesia was most effective in relieving the pain of circumcision. As with any study, they needed a control group that received no anesthesia. The doctors quickly realized that the babies who were not anesthetized were in so much pain that it would be unethical to continue with the study. Even the best commonly available method of pain relief studied, the dorsal penile nerve block, did not block all the babies' pain. Some of the babies in the study were in such pain that they began choking and one even had a seizure (Lander 1997).

Myth 3: My doctor uses anesthesia.

Reality check: Not necessarily. Most newborns do not receive adequate anesthesia. Only 45% of doctors who do circumcisions use any anesthesia at all. Obstetricians perform 70% of circumcisions and are least likely to use anesthesia - only 25% do. The most common reasons why they don't? They didn't think the procedure warranted it, and it takes too long (Stang 1998). A circumcision with adequate anesthesia takes a half-hour - if they brought your baby back sooner, he was in severe pain during the surgery.

Myth 4: Even if it is painful, the baby won't remember it.

Reality check: The body is a historical repository and remembers everything. The pain of circumcision causes a rewiring of the baby's brain so that he is more sensitive to pain later (Taddio 1997, Anand 2000). Circumcision also can cause post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, anger, low self-esteem and problems with intimacy (Boyle 2002, Hammond 1999, Goldman 1999). Even with a lack of explicit memoryand the inability to protest - does that make it right to inflict pain? Ethical guidelines for animal research whenever possible* - do babies deserve any less?


Myth 5: My baby slept right through it.

Reality check: Not possible without total anesthesia, which is not available. Even the dorsal penile nerve block leaves the underside of the penis receptive to pain. Babies go into shock, which though it looks like a quiet state, is actually the body's reaction to profound pain and distress. Nurses often tell the parents "He slept right through it" so as not to upset them. Who would want to hear that his or her baby was screaming in agony?

Myth 6: It doesn't cause the baby long-term harm.

Reality check: Incorrect. Removal of healthy tissue from a non-consenting patient is, in itself, harm (more on this point later). Circumcision has an array of risks and side effects. There is a 1-3% complication rate during the newborn period alone (Schwartz 1990). Here is a short list potential complications.

Meatal Stenosis: Many circumcised boys and men suffer from meatal stenosis. This is a narrowing of the urethra which can interfere with urination and require surgery to fix.

Adhesions. Circumcised babies can suffer from adhesions, where the foreskin remnants try to heal to the head of the penis in an area they are not supposed to grow on. Doctors treat these by ripping them open with no anesthesia.

Buried penis. Circumcision can lead to trapped or buried penis - too much skin is removed, and so the penis is forced inside the body. This can lead to problems in adulthood when the man does not have enough skin to have a comfortable erection. Some men even have their skin split open when they have an erection. There are even more sexual consequences, which we will address in a future post.

Infection. The circumcision wound can become infected. This is especially dangerous now with the prevalence of hospital-acquired multi-drug resistant bacteria.

Death. Babies can even die of circumcision. Over 100 newborns die each year in the USA, mostly from loss of blood and infection (Van Howe 1997 & 2004, Bollinger 2010).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...9/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe


And since you may not read that wall of text or look at any of the sources. Let me just throw out two points.
1: "The doctors quickly realized that the babies who were not anesthetized were in so much pain that it would be unethical to continue with the study."
2: "Only 45% of doctors who do circumcisions use any anesthesia at all. Obstetricians perform 70% of circumcisions and are least likely to use anesthesia - only 25% do. "

Oh but nothing of importance is lost right? Pleasure is in orgasm and not the flesh...

Myth 1: They just cut off a flap of skin.

Reality check: Not true. The foreskin is half of the penis's skin, not just a flap. In an adult man, the foreskin is 15 square inches of skin. In babies and children, the foreskin is adhered to the head of the penis with the same type of tissue that adheres fingernails to their nail beds. Removing it requires shoving a blunt probe between the foreskin and the head of the penis and then cutting down and around the whole penis.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...9/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe

*1. The frenar band of soft ridges--the single most pleasure producing zone on the male body. Loss of this densely innervated and reactive belt of tissue reduces the sensitivity of the remaining penis to about that of ordinary skin.
2. Approximately half of the temperature reactive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.

3. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a component of the immune system.

*4. An estimated 240 feet of microscopic nerves, including branches of the dorsal nerve.

*5. Between 10,000 to 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can discern slight motion, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture. This loss includes thousands of coiled fine-touch receptors called the Meissner's corpuscles - the most important sensory component in the foreskin.

6. Estrogen receptors the purpose and value of which are not yet fully understood.

*7. More than 50% of the mobile penile skin, the multi-purpose covering of the glans, that shields all of the specialized penile skin from abrasion, drying, and callusing (by keratin cell layering), and protects it from dirt and other contaminants. The debilitating sexual consequences of keratinizing the glans have never been studied.

8. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa, which may produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as lysozyme, also found in mothers milk, and plasma cells, which secrete immunoglobulin antibodies.

9. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which interrupts the lymph flow within a part of the bodys immune system.

*10. The frenulum, the very sensitive "V" shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; usually amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, which destroys its functionality.

*11. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones—nature's powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. They contribute significantly to sexuality. Their loss is unstudied.

12. Ectopic sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize.

*13. The essential "gliding" mechanism. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin measures about 15 square inches, the size of a postcard. This abundance of specialized, self-lubricating mobile skin gives the natural penis its unique hallmark ability to smoothly "glide" in and out within itself—permitting natural non-abrasive masturbation and intercourse, without drying out the vagina or requiring artificial lubricants.

14. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans, normally an internal organ, like the tongue.

*15. A significant amount of the penis circumference because its double layered wrapping of loose foreskin is now missing making the circumcised penis defectively thinner than a full-sized intact penis.

*16. As much as one inch of the erect penis length due to amputation when the connective tissue is torn apart during "circumcision." This shared membrane tightly fuses the foreskin and the glans together while the penis develops. Ripping it apart wounds the glans, leaving it raw and subject to infection, scarring, and shrinkage.

*17. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this dense vascularity interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, obviously damaging its natural function and possibly stunting its complete and healthy development.

18. Every year boys lose their penises altogether from botched "circumcisions" and infections accidents happen. They are then "sexually reassigned" by transgender surgery and must live their lives as females.

19. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of medically unnecessary circumcisions. The cause of these deaths are a fact the billion dollar per year circumcision industry willfully obscures and conceals.

*20. Although not yet proved scientifically, there is considerable new evidence that an incomplete penis loses its capacity for the subtle electromagnetic "cross-communication" that occurs only during contact between two mucous membranes, and which contributes to the perception of sexual ecstasy. In other words, medically unjustified foreskin amputation of boys ultimately diminishes the intensity of orgasms for both men and women!

http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/lostlist/

Abstract
WHAT'S KNOWN ON THE SUBJECT? AND WHAT DOES THE STUDY ADD?: The sensitivity of the foreskin and its importance in erogenous sensitivity is widely debated and controversial. This is part of the actual public debate on circumcision for non-medical reason. Today some studies on the effect of circumcision on sexual function are available. However they vary widely in outcome. The present study shows in a large cohort of men, based on self-assessment, that the foreskin has erogenous sensitivity. It is shown that the foreskin is more sensitive than the uncircumcised glans mucosa, which means that after circumcision genital sensitivity is lost. In the debate on clitoral surgery the proven loss of sensitivity has been the strongest argument to change medical practice. In the present study there is strong evidence on the erogenous sensitivity of the foreskin. This knowledge hopefully can help doctors and patients in their decision on circumcision for non-medical reason.
OBJECTIVES:
To test the hypothesis that sensitivity of the foreskin is a substantial part of male penile sensitivity. To determine the effects of male circumcision on penile sensitivity in a large sample.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
The study aimed at a sample size of ≈1000 men. Given the intimate nature of the questions and the intended large sample size, the authors decided to create an online survey. Respondents were recruited by means of leaflets and advertising.
RESULTS:
The analysis sample consisted of 1059 uncircumcised and 310 circumcised men. For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity. They also stated more effort was required to achieve orgasm, and a higher percentage of them experienced unusual sensations (burning, prickling, itching, or tingling and numbness of the glans penis). For the penile shaft a higher percentage of circumcised men described discomfort and pain, numbness and unusual sensations. In comparison to men circumcised before puberty, men circumcised during adolescence or later indicated less sexual pleasure at the glans penis, and a higher percentage of them reported discomfort or pain and unusual sensations at the penile shaft.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102

Hygiene/STI reduction?

Myth: You have to get the baby circumcised because it is really hard to keep a baby's penis clean.

Reality check: In babies, the foreskin is completely fused to the head of the penis. You cannot and should not retract it to clean it, as this would cause the child pain, and is akin to trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina. The infant foreskin is perfectly designed to protect the head of the penis and keep feces out. All you have to do is wipe the outside of the penis like a finger. It is harder to keep circumcised baby's penis clean because you have to carefully clean around the wound, make sure no feces got into the wound, and apply ointment.

Myth: Little boys won't clean under their foreskins and will get infections.

Reality check: The foreskin separates and retracts on its own sometime between age 3 and puberty. Before it retracts on its own, you wipe the outside off like a finger. After it retracts on its own, it will get clean during the boy's shower or bath. Once a boy discovers this cool, new feature of his penis, he will often retract the foreskin himself during his bath or shower, and you can encourage him to rinse it off. But he should not use soap as this upsets the natural balance and is very irritating. There is nothing special that the parents need to do. Most little boys have absolutely no problem playing with their penises in the shower or anywhere else! It was harder to teach my boys to wash their hair than it was to care for their penises. (Camille 2002)

Myth: Uncircumcised penises get smelly smegma.

Reality check: Actually, smegma is produced by the genitals of both women and men during the reproductive years. Smegma is made of sebum and skin cells and lubricates the foreskin and glans in men, and the clitoral hood and inner labia in women. It is rinsed off during normal bathing and does not cause cancer or any other health problems.

Myth: "My uncle wasn't circumcised and he kept getting infections and had to be circumcised as an adult."

Reality check: Medical advice may have promoted infection in uncircumcised males. A shocking number of doctors are uneducated about the normal development of the foreskin, and they (incorrectly) tell parents that they have to retract the baby's foreskin and wash inside it at every diaper change. Doing this tears the foreskin and the tissue (called synechia) that connects it to the head of the penis, leading to scarring and infection.

Misinformation was especially prevalent during the 1950s and 60s, when most babies were circumcised and we didn't know as much about the care of the intact penis, which is why the story is always about someone's uncle. Doing this to a baby boy would be like trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina with Q-tips at every diaper change. Rather than preventing problems, such practices would cause problems by introducing harmful bacteria. Remember that humans evolved from animals, so no body part that required special care would survive evolutionary pressures. The human genitals are wonderfully self-cleaning and require no special care.

Myth: My son was diagnosed with phimosis and so had to be circumcised.

Reality check: Phimosis means that the foreskin will not retract. Since children's foreskins are naturally not retractable, it is impossible to diagnose phimosis in a child. Any such diagnoses in infants are based on misinformation, and are often made in order to secure insurance coverage of circumcision in states in which routine infant circumcision is no longer covered.

Even some adult men have foreskins that do not retract, but as long as it doesn't interfere with sexual intercourse, it is no problem at all, as urination itself cleans the inside of the foreskin.

Phimosis can also be treated conservatively with a steroid cream and gentle stretching done by the man himself, should he so desire it, or, at worst, a slit on the foreskin, rather than total circumcision. (Ashfield 2003) These treatment decisions can and should be made by the adult man.

Myth: Uncircumcised boys get more urinary tract infections (UTIs.)

Reality check: This claim is based on one study that looked at charts of babies born in one hospital (Wiswell 1985). The study had many problems, including that it didn't accurately count whether or not the babies were circumcised, whether they were premature and thus more susceptible to infection in general, whether they were breastfed (breastfeeding protects against UTI), and if their foreskins had been forcibly retracted (which can introduce harmful bacteria and cause UTI) (Pisacane 1990). There have been many studies since which show either no decrease in UTI with circumcision, or else an increase in UTI from circumcision. Thus circumcision is not recommended to prevent UTI (Thompson 1990). Girls have higher rates of UTI than boys, and yet when a girl gets a UTI, she is simply prescribed antibiotics. The same treatment works for boys.

Myth: Circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS.

Reality check: Three studies in Africa several years ago that claimed that circumcision prevented AIDS and that circumcision was as effective as a 60% effective vaccine (Auvert 2005, 2006). These studies had many flaws, including that they were stopped before all the results came in. There have also been several studies that show that circumcision does not prevent HIV (Connolly 2008). There are many issues at play in the spread of STDs which make it very hard to generalize results from one population to another.

In Africa, where the recent studies have been done, most HIV transmission is through male-female sex, but in the USA, it is mainly transmitted through blood exposure (like needle sharing) and male-male sex. Male circumcision does not protect women from acquiring HIV, nor does it protect men who have sex with men (Wawer 2009, Jameson 2009).

What's worse, because of the publicity surrounding the African studies, men in Africa are now starting to believe that if they are circumcised, they do not need to wear condoms, which will increase the spread of HIV (Westercamp 2010). Even in the study with the most favorable effects of circumcision, the protective effect was only 60% - men would still have to wear condoms to protect themselves and their partners from HIV.

In the USA, during the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s and 90s, about 85% of adult men were circumcised (much higher rates of circumcision than in Africa), and yet HIV still spread.

It is important to understand, too, that the men in the African studies were adults and they volunteered for circumcision. Babies undergoing circumcision were not given the choice to decide for themselves.

Myth: Circumcision is worth it because it can save lives.

Reality check: Consider breast cancer: There is a 12% chance that a woman will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Removal of the breast buds at birth would prevent this, and yet no one would advocate doing this to a baby. It is still considered somewhat shocking when an adult woman chooses to have a prophylactic mastectomy because she has the breast cancer gene, yet this was a personal choice done based upon a higher risk of cancer. The lifetime risk of acquiring HIV is less than 2% for men, and can be lowered to near 0% through condom-wearing (Hall 2008). How, then, can we advocate prophylactic circumcision for baby boys?

Science and data do not support the practice of infant circumcision. Circumcision does not preclude the use of the condom. The adult male should have the right to make the decision for himself and not have his body permanently damaged as a baby.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...cision-myths-you-may-believe-hygiene-and-stds

 

[Thurible]

I personally don't know what to think about circumcision. On one hand, it is a popular tradition for boys in the west and is a symbol of the covenant for jews which they have a right to do, on the other it can hurt the genitalia which could potentially hinder virility. Luckily, as a single unmarried man I don't have to worry about sex and the ethics of circumcizing boys (at least for now) so I don't really need to have a say in any of this.

It is interesting to hear what both sides have to say about it. I was circumcised as a baby so I don't know what it is like having a foreskin personally.

 

[oxrock]

I just don't see how a "professional" who habitually amputates penises is allowed anywhere near children anymore. As far as circumcision in general, It just seems like undue risk to me. If complications arise where it becomes medically necessary then by all means it should be done. I don't think it makes any sense otherwise however. If it's to adhere to religious practices then I suggest delaying it until the practitioner is old enough and informed enough to make that decision for themselves and not simply have to live with the consequences of other people's decisions. I can't see how the act wouldn't have more spiritual meaning if done willingly than when it's carried out involuntarily.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

This is an ongoing tragedy, a barbaric religious practice that is allowed to continue in developed society with impunity. Absolutely no justification for it in this context-in Canada of all places.


I've seen them do it with their teeth, and I've seen the pain in the baby. One thing the baby feels perfectly well is pain, as the cerebellum comes out mostly developed. Barbarous. Sickly. Pedophilic. Degenerate. I could go on.

 

[switchback27]

I've seen them do it with their teeth

Wait what?

As a Korean, I have no idea why circumcision is so prevalent here. Regarding the topic, I vehemently opposed my parents who wanted to have me circumcised--not for any religious reason, mind you, but more of a "everybody does it" thing. I love my parents, but politely told them to piss off regarding the subject.

If my baby boy wants to get circumcised, then all power to him, but I ain't gonna be the one to force him to get mutilated.

 

[Geki-D]

It is interesting to hear what both sides have to say about it.

Well, one side is actually posting arguments. "The other side" is, as usual being dismissive, evading questions and posting roll eye smiles. I guess "the other side" is looking to get banned yet again as he's already been several times in the past for the same behaviour.

 

[SKM1]

We don't practice circumcision in South America as far as I know so it seems to me like a bizarre thing to do.

 

[jdforge]

This is an ongoing tragedy, a barbaric religious practice that is allowed to continue in developed society with impunity. Absolutely no justification for it in this context-in Canada of all places.


I've seen them do it with their teeth, and I've seen the pain in the baby. One thing the baby feels perfectly well is pain, as the cerebellum comes out mostly developed. Barbarous. Sickly. Pedophilic. Degenerate. I could go on.

People do this with their teeth? Holy fuck that's unreal if true.

I'm totally against circumcision and I am so thankful I wasn't circumcised. It looks so unnatural to me.

 

[jonnyp]

Glad I was born and raised in a country where we do not chop off parts of our children's genitals. Freaking insane practice

 

[royox]

Where does the most pleasure come in sex besides being with your partner? Hint it's not the flesh but the orgasm. Anti circumcision talk always has and always will be absolute nonsense. Believe what you want though. Just don't expect those who don't agree with your stance to sit in silence



Your belly button is mutilated though

I don't use it for sex, it doesn't destroy my dick's sensitivity and pleasure.

 

[royox]

You can't miss what you don't remember yet it's oh so painful right?

Tell that to people that has been circumcided after having sex and they will always say the same "i can keep going for longer time but the feeling is way worse"

 

[LordOfChaos]

You can't miss what you don't remember yet it's oh so painful right?

A funny aspect about giving birth is that women often report they can't exactly remember the pain of it afterwards. An evolutionary trick to not make everyone stop having babies after one.

None of them would say birth is painless however. Forgotten pain is still experienced pain.


It's also an interesting tact to try to shift discussion about the hundreds of boys who are killed by this to being about pain or belly buttons. To me it spells trying to justify it with any mental backflips possible.

http://www.cirp.org/library/death/

• Julius Katzenstein: 8-days-old, bled to death after circumcision, 14 December 1856, New York, NY, USA.
• Myer Jacob Levy: 8-days-old, bled to death after circumcision, 18 April 1858, New York, NY, USA.
• Aleck, Baby Boy: Died June 10, 1910, Island County, Washington, USA.
• Michael Julian Baldwin: infant boy, 4-days-old, hemorrhage after circumcision. 21 August 1927, Monroe County, Indiana, USA.
• Baby boy Lebeau, death by circumcision, April 1942, Quebec, Canada.
• Roland Albert McCarty: infant boy. Death by infection of circumcision wound. Died 1932, Jacksonville, Florida, USA.
• "J.B.": Died December 1942, Evanston, Illinois, USA.
• Bruce Wechsler: infant boy, Staph infection following circumcision. 1957, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
• Chino Burrell: 7-months-old, death by circumcision, 9 June 1974, Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
• Christopher Dolezal: Died November 1982, Des Moines, IA, USA.
• Steven Christopher Chacon: Died November 1986, San Francisco, CA, USA.
• Boma Oruitemeka: Death by circumcision, severe hemorrhage. 1990, London, England, UK.
• Raju Miah: Death by circumcision. July 1991, Birmingham, England, United Kingdom.
• Allen A. Ervin: Died July 8, 1992, Spartanburg, SC
• Demetrius Manker: Died June 23, 1993, Carol City, Dade County, Florida, USA.17
• Jeremie Johnson: Died July 18, 1995, Houston, TX, USA.19
• Dustin Evans: Died October 1998, Cleveland, OH, USA.
• Ryleigh Roman Bryan McWillis: Died August 22, 2002, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada35
• Zola Mjamba: Died November 19, 2002, Umtata, South Africa
• Sifiso Kobo: Died November 21, 2002, Umtata, South Africa
• Nui Jia Yuan, 4-years-old. Death by asphyxia following circumcision. March 26, 2003, Singapore.
• Callis Osaghae: Monday, August 18, 2003, Regional Hospital, Waterford, Ireland.26
• Bennett Ntazina, adolescent boy. Death by circumcision. December 2003, Jan Kempdorp, South Africa.
• Thamsanqa Mnyaka, 19, of Whittlesea, South Africa: Died Friday, 12 December 2003.
• Myolisi Mayekiso, 18, also of Whittlesea, South Africa: Died Friday, 12 December 2003.
• Andile Masabalala, 21, of Tsomo, South Africa: Died Monday, 15 December 2003.
• Sabelo Marotya, 17, at Mdantsane, South Africa: Died Sunday, July 4, 2004.
• Infant twin (by herpes virus, circumcised by Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer who had herpes and performed metziza by mouth [sucking the blood] on baby's penis) New York, New York, USA, October, 2004.
• Dontsa Lwane, 19 (by suicide after botched circumcision of Dec 11, 2004) Gqebenya, Lady Frere, South Africa, January 8, 2005.
• Wandile Lwane, 21 (Dontsa's brother, by suicide after learning of Dontasa's death) Ezibeleni, Queenstown, South Africa, January 9, 2005
• Muyoddin Khan, 5, Indrapur, Nepal, February 10, 2005.
• Abou Quir, infant boy, Alexandria, Egypt, February 15, 2005.
• Jacob Christian Holliday. Circumcision damaged already-defective heart, requiring heart transplant at age two. Death resulted from cancer caused by immuno-suppresant drugs and resultant cancer at age 4, 20 October 2005, Orlando, Florida, USA.
• Patrick Hoho, 58 (hacked to death by Hoho's circumcision victim), Port Elizabeth, South Africa, July 3, 2006.
• Sello Ntsie, 18 (beaten to death at a circumcision "initiation school" before he could be circumcised), Zuurbekom, near Westonaria, South Africa, July 5, 2006.
• Siyabonga Radebe, 14 (beaten to death at a circumcision "initiation school" before he could be circumcised), Zuurbekom, near Westonaria, South Africa, July 5, 2006.
• Nkhiphitheni Nehelula, 9, Guyuni-Dzumbama village near Mutale, Limpopo, South Africa, July 8 or 9, 2006.
• Xola Mbuqe, 18, Nelson Mandela Academic Hospital, Mthatha, Eastern Cape, South Africa, November 26, 2006.
• Lunga Nocanda, 18, Paarl, Western Cape, South Africa, December 18, 2006.
• Infant boy. Death by bleeding following circumcision in Creswell, Oregon,February 2007, Sacred Heart Hospital, Eugene, Oregon, USA.
• Amitai Moshe, 2 weeks, after a ritual circumcision at Golders Green Synagogue, London. February 9, 2007.
• Celian Noumbiwe, boy, nine weeks, death by circumcision, bled to death, 22 February 2007, Wexham Park Hospital, Slough, Berkshire, United Kingdom.
• Kulideep Kumar Vishnubhai Patel, 10-year-old boy, death by circumcision, 18 November 2007, Unjha, Gujarat, India,
• Infant boy, 18-days-old, death by circumcision, 18 November 2007, Pilar District, Tarragona, Nigeria.
• 18-year-old male, death by circumcision, November 2007, Gxulu Village, Umtata, South Africa.
• Obosee Prince Aseh, boy, 2-months, death by circumcision, haemorrhage, 5 June 2008, Treviso, Italy.
• Gino Erojo, 11-years-old. Death by infection following circumcision, 3 August 2008, Panciao, Manjyod, Negroes Oriental, Philippines.
• Beasley Allen Terrebonne, age 48, death by suicide after botched circumcision and resulting depression. 23 December 2008, Thibodaux, Louisiana, USA.
• Eric Keefe, 6-week-old infant boy, death by blood loss following circumcision, 14 July 2008, Indian Health Service Hospital, Rosebud, South Dakota, USA.
• Yogama Boya, 18-year-old male, death by circumcision, July 2008, Qumbu area of Transkei, South Africa.
• Johnson Killed. Age 2 years and 7 months. death by circumcision. 22 July 2008, Bari, Italy.
• Jayvas Carson, full-term baby, born 15 Novmber 2008. Circumcised 28 November 2008 by Dr. Rachel Carson of Coeur d'Alene Pediatics. Died at Sacred Heart Children's Hospital, Spokane, Washington, 1 January 2009 after long series of complications that started with the loss of blood due to his non-therapeutic circumcision.
• Bradley Dorcius, boy, 7-months-old. Death by circumcision, October 2009, SUNY Downstate Hospital. Brooklyn, New York, USA.
• Kaan Otuk, boy, one-month-old. Death by circumcision anaesthesia overdose, 31 October 2009, Çukurova State Hospital, Adana, Turkey.
• Sonke Foca, male, 19-years-old. Death by dehydration following circumcision, 11 November 2009, Butterworth, Transkei, Eastern Cape Province, South Africa.
• Goodluck Caubergs, Baby. Bled to death after circumcision. Oldham, England, April 17, 2010.
• Saijad Hossain Mimu, 6-years-old. Death by lidocaine anaesthetic overdose, 25 September 2010, Safapur, Amirbad Union,Sonagazi Upazila, Feni District in the Division of Chittagong, Bangladesh.
• Joshua Haskins, 7-weeks old. Died 19 hours after having circumcision followed by prolonged bleeding, despite having congenital heart defect and being in intensive care. October 6, 2010, Indianapolis, Indiana, USA.
• Jaamal Coleson, Jr., toddler, of Brooklyn, New York. Died at Beth Israel Medical Center, Manhattan, New York City after a circumcision on Tuesday, May 3, 2011.50
• James Connor, infant, seven pounds eight ounces, 21 inches long. Born at Pittsburgh, Friday, November 25, 2011. Died Saturday night, November 26, 2011. Death by bleeding after circumcision.
• Anonymous Jewish infant, two weeks old. Death from Herpes infection, Maimonides Hospital, Brookyn, New York, September 28, 2011.51
• Angelo Ofori-Minhah, age 28-days, of Queen's Park, Northamptonshire, England, died on February 17, 2012 after being circumcised by Rabbi Mordehai Cohen on February 15, 2012. The cause of death was bleeding, exsanguination, and heart failure, according to the medical report. The infant was reported to have lost three-quarters of his total blood volume.
• Two boys, Arif, age 4 and Azhar, age 3,in Rakasipet, Bodhan, Andhra Pradesh India. The boys died on Monday, April 30, 2012 after a circumcision a few days before by a rural medical practitioner at Masjid Colony in the Rakasipet area due to uncontrolled "overbleeding".
• Infant boy, age two-weeks. Circumcised Sunday, 6 May 2012 in a doctor's office on the east side of Oslo, Norway. Died of complications Tuesday, 8 May 2012.
• Braden Tyler Frazier. Born February 25, 2013 at Lodi, California. Died March 8, 2013 at Sacramento. Circumcised on the ninth day of life at Sacramento, California. Died on the eleventh day of life of hemorrhage and convulsions, secondary to circumcision.
• Gugeluthu Molakapa, age 4, brain dead after a circumcision at Germiston Hospital, Johannesburg, South Africa, August 2013.

See also:

• Danelle Frisbie. Peaceful Parenting: Death From Circumcision, Saturday, May 8, 2010.

Library holdings

1. Williams N, Kapila L. Complications of circumcision. Brit J Surg 1993;80:1231-6.
2. Holt LE. Tuberculosis acquired through ritual circumcision. JAMA 1913;LXI(2):99-102.
3. Reuben MS. Tuberculosis from ritual circumcision. Proceedings of the New York Academy of Medicine 1916; (December 15): 333-334.
4. Rosenstein JL. Wound diphtheria in the newborn infant following circumcision: report of a case. J Pediatr 1941;18:657-8.
5. Sauer LW. Fatal staphylococcus bronchopneumonia following ritual circumcision. Am J Obstetr Gynecol 1943;46:583.
6. The Talmud of Babylonia: An American Translation. Translated by Jacob Neusner. Number 251. Volume XIII.B: Tractate Yebamot, Chapters 4-6. Program in Judaic Studies Brown University. Atlanta: Scholars Press. 1992.
7. Denniston GC. Unnecessary Circumcision. The Female Patient 1992: 17: 13-14.
8. Council on Scientific Affairs, American Medical Association. Report 10: Neonatal circumcision. Chicago: American Medical Association, 1999.
9. Hodges FM, Svoboda JS, Van Howe RS. Prophylactic interventions on children: balancing human rights with public health. J Med Ethics 2002;28(1):10-16.
10. Gairdner D. The fate of the foreskin: a study of circumcision. Br Med J 1949; 2:1433-1437.
11. Gellis SS. Circumcision. Am J Dis Child 1978;132:1168.
12. Baker RL. Newborn male circumcision: needless and dangerous. Sexual Medicine Today 1979;3(11):35-36.
13. Scurlock JM, Pemberton PJ. Neonatal meningitis and circumcision. Med J Aust 1977;1(10):332-
14. Cleary TG, Kohl S. Overwhelming infection with group B beta-hemolytic streptococcus associated with circumcision. Pediatrics 1979;64(3):301-303.
15. Peter Rachter. Grand jury to probe death of baby after circumcision. The Des Moines Register, Des Moines, Saturday, November 20, 1982.
16. Boy in coma most of his 6 years dies. The State, Columbia South Carolina, July 10, 1992: F21.
17. Baby bleeds to death after circumcision. Miami Herald, Miami, Florida, June 26, 1993.
18. Wetli CV. Case 93-1711. Autopsy of Demetrius Manker. Miami: Dade County Medical Examiner Department, June 23, 1993.
19. Lyndia Lum, Ruth Sorelle. Boy's death to be probed. Houston Chronicle, Houston, Texas, Friday, July 28, 1995, page 28A.
20. Circumcision That Didn't Heal Kills Boy, NewsNet5, Cleveland, OH, October 20, 1998.
21. Hiss J, Horowitz A, Kahana T. Fatal haemorrhage following male ritual circumcision. J Clin Forensic Med 2000;7:32-4.
22. Omskuren treåring dog av bedövning [Circumcised three-year-old died from anaesthesia]. Aftonbladet, Stockholm, Sweden, Friday, 9 February 2001.
23. Paul Stokes. Patient died 'because surgeon guessed dose'. Daily Telegraph, Friday, November 30, 2001.
24. Sandra Vogel-Hockley. Death of local baby subject of investigation. The Penticton Western, Penticton, B.C., Volume 36, Issue 69, 31 August 2002.
25. Man hunted after death of circumcision baby. Online.ie, Dublin, 20 August 2003.
26. Infant dies after home circumcision. Munster Express, Munster, Southeathern Ireland, Friday, 22 August 2003.
27. Initiation Horror as Four Dead. Eastern Province Herald, Port Elizabeth, South Africa, Friday, July 19, 1996.
28. Chris McGreal. Botched circumcision kills boys. The Guardian, London, 7 January 2000.
29. Dumisane Lubisi, African Eye News Service. Boy bleeds to death after circumcision. News24, South Africa, 26 June 2001.
30. Steven Kretzmann. Hospitals Struggle Against Odds to Treat Septic Initiates. East Cape News, Grahamtown, Eastern Cape, South Africa, 01 August 2001.
31. Dumisane Lubisi. 11-year-old dies after botched circumcision. Daily Mail and Guardian, South Africa, Thursday, 16 August 2001.
32. Sarie Van Niekerk. Five teens die during initiation. Natal Witness, Pietermaritzburg, South Africa, Wednesday, 26 June 2002.
33. Fourteen dead after initiation rituals in S.Africa. The Times of India, 5 July 2002.
34. Circumcision leaves 24 dead, 100 in hospital. The Star, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Tuesday, 17 July 2002.
35. Madoda Dyonana. 'Errant surgeon will be found'. Business Day, Saturday, 7 December 2002.
36. Law vs tradition in circumcision debacle. The Mail and Guardian. Johannesburg, South Africa, Monday, 8 December 2003.
37. Newell TEC. Judgement of inquiry into the death of McWillis, Ryleigh Roman Bryan. Burnaby, B.C.: British Columbia Coroner's Service, Monday, 19 January 2004. [HTML file]
38. Newell TEC. Judgement of inquiry into the death of McWillis, Ryleigh Roman Bryan. Burnaby, B.C.: British Columbia Coroner's Service, Monday, 19 January 2004. [PDF file]
39. Suzanne Fournier. Lack of post-surgery info angers grieving parents. The Province, Vancouver, B.C., Friday, 13 February 2004.
40. Circumcision school initiate dies. South African Press Association (SAPA), 8 July 2004.
41. Lulamile Feni. 10 die in botched circumcisions, 32 fight for lives. Daily Dispatch, East London, Eastern Cape Province, South Africa, Tuesday, 13 December 2005.
42. Bollinger D. Death and the new penis. International Coalition for Genital Integrity, 2006. [Full Text]
43. Stephen Moyes. 7-day old dies after circumcision. The Mirror, London, Thursday, 15 February 2007.
44. Martin Beckford. Police investigate baby's death after circumcision. Daily Telegraph, London, Friday, 16 February 2007.
45. Polly Curtis. Police probe death of baby after circumcision. The Guardian, London, Saturday, February 17, 2007.
46. Paediatric Death Review Committee: Office of the Chief Coroner of Ontario. Circumcision: a minor procedure? Paediatr Child Health 2007;12(4):311-2.
47. Boy, 4, dies after circumcision. Electric New Paper, Singapore, 25 June 2007.
48. Unjha doctors strike work. Express India, Tuesday, 20 November 2007.
49. Edward Koech. Boy bleeds to death after 'cut'. The Nation, Nairobi, Friday, December 14, 2007.
50. Cynthia R. Fagen. Tot's shock hosp death: Tragic circumcision. New York Post, Thursday, May 5, 2011.
51. Liz Robbins. Baby's Death Renews Debate Over a Circumcision Ritual. New York Times, Wednesday, March 7, 2012.
52. Bollinger D. Lost boys: An estimate of U.S. circumcision-related infant deaths. Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies Volume 5, Number 1 (Spring 2010).

Robert Baker estimated 229 deaths per year from circumcision in the United States. Bollinger estimated that approximately 119 infant boys die from circumcision-related each year in the U.S. (1.3% of all male neonatal deaths from all causes). There are several case reports of death in the medical literature.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

https://www.regenexx.com/blog/research/how-risky-is-total-knee-replacement-surgery/

A knee replacement, while safe in many patients carries with it serious risks and complications. As an example, in the year 2008 alone, 4,964 deaths due to knee replacement were found in this database.

I'm just sayin. I'm sure a better comparison would be something like tattoos or body piercings but I can't find any solid stats on those other than from sepsis.

 

[badblue]

https://www.regenexx.com/blog/research/how-risky-is-total-knee-replacement-surgery/



I'm just sayin. I'm sure a better comparison would be something like tattoos or body piercings but I can't find any solid stats on those other than from sepsis.

I'm not sure what you are trying to point out with this? You seem to be agreeing that surgery has risks attached to it... in response to a post that points out that babies can die from this procedure. While missing the point that the both surgeries are completely unnecessary baring legitimate medical needs.

Can't die from knee surgery related complications if you don't have knee surgery.
Can't die from circumcision related complications if you don't have a circumcision.

 

[Antoon]

That is horrible. It sucks the babies cant decide for themselves if they want the circimcision. I think I was around 15 when I decided to do it because the extra sensitivity was getting on my nerves, I had too many erections just from wearing clothes.

 

[SKM1]

https://www.regenexx.com/blog/research/how-risky-is-total-knee-replacement-surgery/



I'm just sayin. I'm sure a better comparison would be something like tattoos or body piercings but I can't find any solid stats on those other than from sepsis.

I think a better comparison would be chopping off the pinky toes.

 

[Virex]

Glad I have my whole body intact like since birth. And the whole "hygiene" argument for circumcision is bullshit. Just was your damn dick properly

 

[M. Crassus]

Barbaric practice. And then there's the Jewish practice of Metzitzah B'Peh which involves a rabbi sucking the baby's bloody little dick after circumcision, sometimes giving them genital herpes in the process.

 

[Antoon]

I personally don't know what to think about circumcision. On one hand, it is a popular tradition for boys in the west and is a symbol of the covenant for jews which they have a right to do, on the other it can hurt the genitalia which could potentially hinder virility. Luckily, as a single unmarried man I don't have to worry about sex and the ethics of circumcizing boys (at least for now) so I don't really need to have a say in any of this.

It is interesting to hear what both sides have to say about it. I was circumcised as a baby so I don't know what it is like having a foreskin personally.

After getting it done around age 15, I'd say it has helped immensely with sensitivity, so no more erections from clothes, especially tigher trousers. Another thing is the smell, I remember during puberty it was getting bothersome to wash the junk more often than needed, and even after the shower the smell could come back later in the day. After the surgery this problem doesnt exist anymore, so I am proof that the 'cut' is great for hygiene.