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Underrated feature of Samsung displays- proprietary "HDR10+ Gaming"

crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
The first few months I owned my G9 OLED, I wondered why the colors and contrast in Call of Duty Warzone looked so great compared to any other game I played. I realized Samsung has a proprietary HDR mode called "HDR10+ Gaming", similar to Dolby Vision. Only a select few games support it but it looks like the list is growing. I just noticed RDR2 added support for it this year and the game looks amazing because of it.

Does anyone have a Samsung display? Do console games support it or is it just on PC?

Gaming – HDR10+

hdr10plus.org hdr10plus.org
www.tomshardware.com

First HDR10+ PC Game Arrives With 'Automatic HDR' Mode

Partners will demo 'The First Descendant' at Gamescom this week.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com


 
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Kataploom

Kataploom

Gold Member
Is that the "Gaming HDR" in the Game Mode feature? Because I think it looks too washed out if I remove the Contrast Enhancer, it looks so bad it's not a joke, even if I set the brightness to max it still looks too dark and washed out, and that's supposed to be the developer original intend or whatever so even tho I thought HDR looked great at first, it was just because I had Contrast Enhancer enabled and I'm not sure it would make the image kinda "worse" enabling it again so I'm ditching the HDR because I don't want to deal with that shit setting it up game by game or whatever.

You know which one is the other solution people on the internet gave me? Disable the "Gaming HDR" altogether, just play with non-gaming HDR, so I don't think it's that good at all... Hell, now I think HDR in gaming is a mistake.
 
AJUMP23

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
LordOcidax said:
If you have a sub $1000 tv, you wouldn’t notice any difference, also the majority of games doesn’t have a good HDR implementation, in the majority of cases is better to turn off the HDR.
Click to expand...
I Have an LG C2 OLED..... I have probably just gotten use to it. so you do not see it anymore.
 
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VulcanRaven

VulcanRaven

Member
I tried playing Cyberpunk in Dolby Vision on my Sony tv but its not a game mode so the input lag felt terrible.
 
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crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Kuranghi said:
"The colours and contrast looked so great", compared to what? The SDR output of the game?

Does the monitor switch to a different picture mode?
Click to expand...

No, compared to regular HDR. It looks significantly better than standard HDR. It switches automatically to it whenever I boot up a game that supports it.
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Kataploom said:
Is that the "Gaming HDR" in the Game Mode feature? Because I think it looks too washed out if I remove the Contrast Enhancer, it looks so bad it's not a joke, even if I set the brightness to max it still looks too dark and washed out, and that's supposed to be the developer original intend or whatever so even tho I thought HDR looked great at first, it was just because I had Contrast Enhancer enabled and I'm not sure it would make the image kinda "worse" enabling it again so I'm ditching the HDR because I don't want to deal with that shit setting it up game by game or whatever.

You know which one is the other solution people on the internet gave me? Disable the "Gaming HDR" altogether, just play with non-gaming HDR, so I don't think it's that good at all... Hell, now I think HDR in gaming is a mistake.
Click to expand...
Are you sure we are talking about the same thing? Because in COD and RDR2, two games that support it, it does not look washed out at all. Brightness may be a bit dim but I attribute that to the OLED nature of my display. If you bring up the options menu while you’re gaming, it will specifically say “HDR10+gaming” while it’s enabled.
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
VulcanRaven said:
I tried playing Cyberpunk in Dolby Vision on my Sony tv but its not a game mode so the input lag felt terrible.
Click to expand...

cyberpunk also supports this Samsung hdr10+gaming mode. I didn’t notice any input lag. I think it’s a gaming specific HDR mode so they optimize for low latency
 
M

Meicyn

Gold Member
AJUMP23 said:
I Have an LG C2 OLED..... I have probably just gotten use to it. so you do not see it anymore.
Click to expand...
SDR content is mastered with peak brightness at 100 nits. HDR content is mastered at a minimum of 400 nits, with some content such as Mad Max: Fury Road being mastered at 4000 nits. Your TV is capable of achieving nearly 800 nits.

If I were to make an analogy, think of your TV like a lightbulb with a dimmer switch. Remember how bright a 100 watt incandescent bulb was compared to a 40 watt bulb when you feed it max power? Well, you have the equivalent of a 100 watt bulb, but you have elected to use a 40 watt dimmer switch. As a consequence, you will get 40 watts worth of brightness at max because you have limited what the bulb can receive.

You should be utilizing HDR when the option is available, especially on an OLED. The difference between HDR and SDR is massive when bright elements kick in. You need to find a game that lets you swap easily between SDR and HDR, and go to a location where you have a mixture of extremely dark shadowy content and extremely bright elements like spotlights or the sun. The difference will showcase how flat SDR content is comparatively.

There are exceptions of course. HDR implementation in Red Dead Redemption 2 for consoles was an after-the-fact implementation and was done half-assed. Everything looks washed out in that game in HDR. There are other games that also did a trash implementation of HDR.

Modern releases like Final Fantasy XVI, Dragon’s Dogma 2, Hogwart’s Legacy, Tetris Effect, and other titles have excellent HDR implementation. SDR just doesn’t compare.
 
Shake Your Rump

Shake Your Rump

Member
Isn't HDR10+ an existing standard that has been around for years? It's just HDR10 with dynamic metadata (like Dolby Vision).

HDR10+ - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

So, yeah, the games and the TV have to support it. I don't think any have bothered since games can dynamically tone map internally, and Dolby Vision exists and is accepted.

Samsung is infamously against Dolby Vision, likely due to licensing fees, so of course they are going for the free alternative. It's good to see soemone using it, though.
 
Shake Your Rump

Shake Your Rump

Member
Meicyn said:
You need to find a game that lets you swap easily between SDR and HDR, and go to a location where you have a mixture of extremely dark shadowy content and extremely bright elements like spotlights or the sun. The difference will showcase how flat SDR content is comparatively.
Click to expand...
For me this game was Uncharted 4.

I had been using one of the highest end Sony 1080p LED TVs, and games like The Last Guardian and Horizon Zero Dawn had me curious about HDR. I bought a Sony 900E (4K HDR) just to test HDR games. I fully expected to be disappointed and to return the TV. I was so convinced, I didn't even fully unbox the TV. I left the TV in the carton base in the middle of the floor.

It only took one scene in Uncharted 4, toggling HDR on and off, to see that the TV would be a keeper. As you say, SDR looked so incredibly flat, washed out even, compared to HDR. This is one major problem I have with my favourite genre, JRPGs, in that they are almost always still in SDR. I also feel bad for PC gamers that are stuck with 99% of their games not supporting HDR, and true HDR monitors (not those fake "HDR400") are still exceeding rare and expensive.
 
M

Meicyn

Gold Member
Shake Your Rump said:
This is one major problem I have with my favourite genre, JRPGs, in that they are almost always still in SDR.
Click to expand...
Dude, you aren’t kidding… I don’t know why Falcom won’t move to HDR, it’s right freaking there. On a similar note, I used to play FFXIV religiously and with the graphics overhaul for their entire game, I expected them to add HDR support. I have read nothing about it being added, which makes zero sense when their goal was to modernize the visuals and they went over every visual asset to upgrade them, including better lighting. Why would they skip doing HDR? This is even more confusing considering FFXVI looks amazing in HDR and runs on the same engine, produced by the same team!
 
Kataploom

Kataploom

Gold Member
crazepharmacist said:
Are you sure we are talking about the same thing? Because in COD and RDR2, two games that support it, it does not look washed out at all. Brightness may be a bit dim but I attribute that to the OLED nature of my display. If you bring up the options menu while you’re gaming, it will specifically say “HDR10+gaming” while it’s enabled.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess the right term I wanted to use was "dim", it looks like if I set the brightness to 200 nits or something like that, it truly looks awful, I have a Samsung QN90B and the feature I'm talking about is HGiG which is labelled as "Gaming HDR" in the TV menu
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Meicyn said:
SDR content is mastered with peak brightness at 100 nits. HDR content is mastered at a minimum of 400 nits, with some content such as Mad Max: Fury Road being mastered at 4000 nits. Your TV is capable of achieving nearly 800 nits.

If I were to make an analogy, think of your TV like a lightbulb with a dimmer switch. Remember how bright a 100 watt incandescent bulb was compared to a 40 watt bulb when you feed it max power? Well, you have the equivalent of a 100 watt bulb, but you have elected to use a 40 watt dimmer switch. As a consequence, you will get 40 watts worth of brightness at max because you have limited what the bulb can receive.

You should be utilizing HDR when the option is available, especially on an OLED. The difference between HDR and SDR is massive when bright elements kick in. You need to find a game that lets you swap easily between SDR and HDR, and go to a location where you have a mixture of extremely dark shadowy content and extremely bright elements like spotlights or the sun. The difference will showcase how flat SDR content is comparatively.

There are exceptions of course. HDR implementation in Red Dead Redemption 2 for consoles was an after-the-fact implementation and was done half-assed. Everything looks washed out in that game in HDR. There are other games that also did a trash implementation of HDR.

Modern releases like Final Fantasy XVI, Dragon’s Dogma 2, Hogwart’s Legacy, Tetris Effect, and other titles have excellent HDR implementation. SDR just doesn’t compare.
Click to expand...

Well that’s the thing. I remember RDR2 looking washed out on console and even on PC to the point where I turned off HDR because I thought SDR looked better. That’s why I was so surprised at how damn impressive the game looks with HDR10+ Game on my Samsung G9 oled. The HDR is one of the best implementations I’ve ever seen
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Shake Your Rump said:
Isn't HDR10+ an existing standard that has been around for years? It's just HDR10 with dynamic metadata (like Dolby Vision).

HDR10+ - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

So, yeah, the games and the TV have to support it. I don't think any have bothered since games can dynamically tone map internally, and Dolby Vision exists and is accepted.

Samsung is infamously against Dolby Vision, likely due to licensing fees, so of course they are going for the free alternative. It's good to see soemone using it, though.
Click to expand...
I guess it’s similar but it has the “Gaming” moniker now after it. I guess it’s a gaming optimized version of HDR10+
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Kataploom said:
Well, I guess the right term I wanted to use was "dim", it looks like if I set the brightness to 200 nits or something like that, it truly looks awful, I have a Samsung QN90B and the feature I'm talking about is HGiG which is labelled as "Gaming HDR" in the TV menu
Click to expand...

I have that enabled on my Samsung G9 as well but this is something different. HDR10+ gaming is different than HGiG
 
M

Meicyn

Gold Member
Kataploom said:
Well, I guess the right term I wanted to use was "dim", it looks like if I set the brightness to 200 nits or something like that, it truly looks awful, I have a Samsung QN90B and the feature I'm talking about is HGiG which is labelled as "Gaming HDR" in the TV menu
Click to expand...
Dude, what? You have a TV that can handle almost 2000 nits! Have you run the HDR calibration on your console(s) in the console settings whether it be Xbox Series or PS5? If you’re gaming on PC, you need to download the HDR calibration tool for Windows available from Microsoft.

You have a high quality TV, HDR games should not look dim on it.
 
Kataploom

Kataploom

Gold Member
Meicyn said:
Dude, what? You have a TV that can handle almost 2000 nits! Have you run the HDR calibration on your console(s) in the console settings whether it be Xbox Series or PS5? If you’re gaming on PC, you need to download the HDR calibration tool for Windows available from Microsoft.

You have a high quality TV, HDR games should not look dim on it.
Click to expand...
I did, I actually three HDR profiles on PC considering I was using it with and without Contrast Enhancer and doing tests, it looks dimmed af, like it was intended to only be watched in the most absolute darkness
 
M

Meicyn

Gold Member
Kataploom said:
I did, I actually three HDR profiles on PC considering I was using it with and without Contrast Enhancer and doing tests, it looks dimmed af, like it was intended to only be watched in the most absolute darkness
Click to expand...
I don’t use Samsung TVs so I can’t offer any other advice at this point… all I know is, my spouse is currently playing Baldur’s Gate 3 on PC in HDR and it definitely isn’t dull in any sense.

Maybe crazepharmacist crazepharmacist can help with some settings?
 
AJUMP23

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
Hollowpoint5557 said:
Proper HDR in games has left me staggered at times. PLEASE invest in a proper display because sometimes HDR leaves my jaw on the floor with how good it looks. It's stunning and transformative for some games. I really can't praise it enough.
Click to expand...
I have an LG OLED C1. And I configure it.
 
Tomi

Tomi

Member
Hollowpoint5557 said:
Proper HDR in games has left me staggered at times. PLEASE invest in a proper display because sometimes HDR leaves my jaw on the floor with how good it looks. It's stunning and transformative for some games. I really can't praise it enough.
Click to expand...
Can you give me some games what have best hdr implementation based on your experience?
 
REDRZA MWS

REDRZA MWS

Member
Own an 77” LG GX, all the hdmi 2.1 gaming blows. Instantaneous response, best picture deepest blacks. I’ll never buy any other tv.
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Meicyn said:
I don’t use Samsung TVs so I can’t offer any other advice at this point… all I know is, my spouse is currently playing Baldur’s Gate 3 on PC in HDR and it definitely isn’t dull in any sense.

Maybe crazepharmacist crazepharmacist can help with some settings?
Click to expand...
No, I can’t. That’s the whole point of HDR10+ Gaming. The developers have to specifically support it and it’s automatic. There’s no settings to tinker with, if it’s on, you’re playing the game as the developer intended.
 
M

Meicyn

Gold Member
crazepharmacist said:
No, I can’t. That’s the whole point of HDR10+ Gaming. The developers have to specifically support it and it’s automatic. There’s no settings to tinker with, if it’s on, you’re playing the game as the developer intended.
Click to expand...
Nah, let me clarify… I mean for HGiG. You said you have HGiG on your Samsung G9 in response to his issues with HGiG on his set. I’m not familiar with Samsung settings so I can’t offer advice.

I get what you’re saying on HDR10+, it’s akin to Dolby Vision which is fantastic and a huge leap over HDR10 the same way it’s a leap over SDR. Dolby Vision on my Bravia 9 is a completely automated affair.
 
hinch7

hinch7

Member
Looking forward to testing this out when my G8 arrives, next month. Coming from the origional G7, should be a crazy upgrade in HDR.
 
Puscifer

Puscifer

Member
AJUMP23 said:
I don't really think I see a major difference between HDR and non HDR.
Click to expand...
I think this is what happens when there's no real standard for any of this stuff. Dolby Vision and Hcic (is this even still a thing?) can provide better results because it's a base minimum for contrast, color, black levels, etc whereas HDR10 is just loose standard.
 
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Shake Your Rump

Shake Your Rump

Member
Kataploom said:
I did, I actually three HDR profiles on PC considering I was using it with and without Contrast Enhancer and doing tests, it looks dimmed af, like it was intended to only be watched in the most absolute darkness
Click to expand...

HDR doesn’t make the screen brighter. It extends the range of brightness. You may just be used to whatever brightness Samsung thinks is best, which is probably double the expected value. There is no technical reason why it should be more dim with HGIG unless Samsung’s default tone mapping is completely blowing out the brightness curve.

Assuming Samsung isn’t doing shady stuff behind the scenes (which they have been documented doing), HGIG mode calibrated at the console/pc/game level is the intended image.
 
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JohnnyFootball

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
HDR 10+ is a fucking waste.

Dolby Vision took over and owns dynamic metadatic. Dynamic metadata IMO is less important for games than it is for movies.
 
eNT1TY

eNT1TY

Member
Hollowpoint5557 said:
Proper HDR in games has left me staggered at times. PLEASE invest in a proper display because sometimes HDR leaves my jaw on the floor with how good it looks. It's stunning and transformative for some games. I really can't praise it enough.
Click to expand...
Indeed good HDR does more for visuals than higher resolution and/or settings and have often given me that "next gen" wow factor at lower rez on console despite quantifiably worse performance across every other metric.
 
Hollowpoint5557

Hollowpoint5557

A Fucking Idiot
AJUMP23 said:
I have an LG OLED C1. And I configure it.
Click to expand...
Configure it properly than or invest in some eyeglasses. The C1 is more than capable of producing eye-popping HDR. You might literally be the only person in the world with a C1 who claims they can't see a difference between HDR and non-HDR content. That is a sick-ass tv.
 
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AJUMP23

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
Hollowpoint5557 said:
Configure it properly than or invest in some eyeglasses. The C1 is more than capable of producing eye-popping HDR. You might literally be the only person in the world with a C1 who claims they can't see a difference between HDR and non-HDR content. That is a sick-ass tv.
Click to expand...
It is. I think I have just gotten so use to it I don’t remember what it use to look like.
 
Kataploom

Kataploom

Gold Member
Shake Your Rump said:
HDR doesn’t make the screen brighter. It extends the range of brightness. You may just be used to whatever brightness Samsung thinks is best, which is probably double the expected value. There is no technical reason why it should be more dim with HGIG unless Samsung’s default tone mapping is completely blowing out the brightness curve.

Assuming Samsung isn’t doing shady stuff behind the scenes (which they have been documented doing), HGIG mode calibrated at the console/pc/game level is the intended image.
Click to expand...
Not doing anything like that myself, TV max brightness is 50 and I use it at 20 like 90% of the time, then enable HDR and colors look a little washed out and it looks like if I set the TV brightness at 5 or so. But that only happens with contrast enhancer set to off, when it's set to on it looks great, but yeah it seems like it's not the proper way to experience HDR so I just stayed on SDR and called it a day.

All your replies make me think that maybe I should give it another go to try and fix HDR if there's something to fix, I just think I've dealt enough with it.
 
crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Toytown Assassin said:
I had a tv that supported it and I think a handful of amazon shows used it but even amazon uses dolby vision now.. Pretty much a dead format.
Click to expand...

It’s definitely not if RDR2 supports it (you know gta6 will) as well as cyberpunk 2033 and the call of duty franchise. Those are some of the biggest games out there
 
Bojji

Bojji

Member
Shake Your Rump said:
HDR doesn’t make the screen brighter. It extends the range of brightness. You may just be used to whatever brightness Samsung thinks is best, which is probably double the expected value. There is no technical reason why it should be more dim with HGIG unless Samsung’s default tone mapping is completely blowing out the brightness curve.

Assuming Samsung isn’t doing shady stuff behind the scenes (which they have been documented doing), HGIG mode calibrated at the console/pc/game level is the intended image.
Click to expand...

On my LG most of time HGIG makes image OVERALL less bright compared to DTM but highlights are usually brighter with HGIG, differences between darker and brighter parts of image are bigger as they should be.
Dynamic Tone Mapping usually brightness up everything and some people prefer it, but for sure this is not what creators intended. Vincent explained it really well here:



As for HDR differences, Jedi Survivor looks much better with HDR:

KPnvtzu.jpg
 
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