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[gofreak]

Just wondering if anyone on GAF has tried this. I'm fitting out a new home theatre setup, and was looking into DVD players, when I read about these rather fantastic sounding players that can output 720p images from regular DVDs by scaling up the image, with apparently great results. I saw some photos of the output being front projected, and it was streets ahead of similar shots from players that weren't upscaling the image to high definition resolutions, and this seems to tally with first hand accounts (i.e. scaling up the image with DVI-out can give massive improvements). Apparently the quality *will* depend on the source material..some DVDs will be better than others. But it sounds fairly appealing, especially given that the players that do this can be got pretty cheaply. Anyone here care to offer an opinion/advice?

edit: The "comparison" pics that first sparked my interest in this were these:

The middle picture obviously looks the best of the lot. However, the third picture is running of a projector 2 generations ahead of the middle one (the first picture is from a projector one generation before the middle picture). The middle one is using upscaling to 1280x768, however. Obviously it's not a totally fair comparison, since different cameras were used for each, in different lighting conditions with different screens..but still...

 

[heavy liquid]

I was looking into this a month or two ago, and finally settled on the Zenith DVB-318.

Upconverts to 720p and 1080i nicely, but what really sold me on it was the fact that I could very easily turn it into a multi-region player as well. I'm happy to say that it plays all my Japanese and UK discs and converts PAL to NTSC. Bought it from Amazon for $160.

There's a good FAQ at AVS here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=400480

 

[gofreak]

I was looking into this a month or two ago, and finally settled on the Zenith DVB-318.

Upconverts to 720p and 1080i nicely, but what really sold me on it was the fact that I could very easily turn it into a multi-region player as well. I'm happy to say that it plays all my Japanese and UK discs and converts PAL to NTSC. Bought it from Amazon for $160.

There's a good FAQ at AVS here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=400480

Cheers! How is the upconversion? Does it work well with most DVDs? How noticeable is the difference in quality when you upconvert?

 

[Error Macro]

Those pictures aren't a fair comparison at all. There should be no difference in the white and saturation levels between the pictures. If you have a good analog (component connection) player, upconverting over HDMI/DVI is not going to look that much better. My TV already upconverts all signals to 1080i, so I don't really need one. If you really want to get an upconverting player, that's actually good, look at a Denon 1910 on the low end, and a Denon 2910 if you want to spend a little more. However, with the 2910, you get SACD/DVD-A playback, better DAC's, 8 mb buffer that completely elimates layer change pauses, etc.

 

[teepo]

the denon 1910 and 2910 don't have any differences in picture qaulity so unless you have a very good soundsystem, just go with the 1910 if you're considering it.

i just like to mention that dvds suck with hdtv's.

 

[Error Macro]

i just like to mention that dvds suck with hdtv's.

???

Some well mastered DVDs look like broadcast HD if you have the right equipment. Actually, I can think of only a handful of DVDs that I have that are truly disappointing to watch.

 

[teepo]

they don't look nearly as good as a real hd broadcasts. a lot of hd broadcasts are upscaled to be 720p or 1080i themselves. but yeh, movies like gladiator and black hawk down don't look bad but still, they could be much much much sharper.

 

[Error Macro]

Yeah, I'm talking about straight up 1080i HD broadcast quality, compared to SD, 480i DVD. If the DVD is mastered properly, meaning automatically Sony DVDs are out, they can look very, very, close to an HD signal. Obviously, there is going to be some loss of resolution mainly in background detail, but some of the best transfers, with little to no vertical filtering done to the image (which is why I discount Sony's transfers completely), look that damn good. Outputting through a Silicon Image or Faroujda de-interlacer, going through a good line doubler and being upconverted to 1080i can do wonders for a good DVD image. I was just watching T2: Extreme Edition last night, noticing how damn good that transfer is. Very nice rendering of background detail in the image. Razor sharp transfer.

 

[Dilbert]

It really depends on your TV. My DLP is natively 720p, so everything has to get changed to that resolution. Since the scaler in my TV is better than the one in my DVD player, I let it handle the conversion.

If you don't have a TV with a built-in scaler, though, I'm not sure why you'd want to upsample. Wouldn't it be like playing a PC game on an LCD monitor, running at a lower resolution than the native LCD resolution and looking awful?

 

[Lil' Dice]

My DVDs look great on my HDTV. You also have to keep in mind that the equipment used in filming a movie will ultimately determine your final output.

 

[teepo]

Yeah, I'm talking about straight up 1080i HD broadcast quality, compared to SD, 480i DVD. If the DVD is mastered properly, meaning automatically Sony DVDs are out, they can look very, very, close to an HD signal. Obviously, there is going to be some loss of resolution mainly in background detail, but some of the best transfers, with little to no vertical filtering done to the image (which is why I discount Sony's transfers completely), look that damn good. Outputting through a Silicon Image or Faroujda de-interlacer, going through a good line doubler and being upconverted to 1080i can do wonders for a good DVD image. I was just watching T2: Extreme Edition last night, noticing how damn good that transfer is. Very nice rendering of background detail in the image. Razor sharp transfer.

watch the t2 dvd then connect your pc to the tv and play the 1080i conversion.

 

[gofreak]

I'll be hooking my choice of player up to a LCD front projector, which probably won't have its own scalar, but will have HDMI inputs. I don't know..I've heard great things about upscaling, especially for projectors and the like. Apparently the jump in quality is much more noticeable with a LCD projector than with a TV.

I'm also now looking at the upcoming Panasonic S97 (has Faroudja)..

And I know, those pics aren't a great comparison. But the middle shot just looks excessively better, and I can't help but feel it's partly down to the upscaling..(?) Probably would help if there were bigger photos, but unfortunately, that's all i've got. Surprised it's difficult to find direct comparison shots between upscaled and non-upscaled output.

 

[Error Macro]

watch the t2 dvd then connect your pc to the tv and play the 1080i conversion.

Yeah, it's pretty nice, but there are too many compression artifacts for me to enjoy watching it. Also, it's filtered down quite a bit to get the compressed size of the movie to fit on the disc. It's not that much better, anyway, in terms of resolvable information.

 

[teepo]

but it a good look at whats to come with blueray for us hd owners!

 

[heavy liquid]

Cheers! How is the upconversion? Does it work well with most DVDs? How noticeable is the difference in quality when you upconvert?

It's pretty noticeable. A well mastered DVD upconverted to 1080i looks pretty darn close to HD broadcast. It's quite nice. I'm using a 57" Sony widescreen RP HDTV.

You can't upconvert on the fly though. You have to stop the disc, change the upconversion, and then resume play. Doesn't bother me.. I leave it at 1080i.

 

[Error Macro]

but it a good look at whats to come with blueray for us hd owners!

Yes, it is, and Blu-Ray will look even better, because presumably, the transfers won't have to be as filtered, and the resolution will be a true 1080p image, whereas the T2 WMP9 image was somewhere closer to 720p, but I forget the actual resolution. The MPEG 4 encoders will also be more advanced by then. Oh, and don't forget that lossless audio either! Shit, I'm so excited.

 

[mrklaw]

basically its down to where you have the best scaler.

For example, my current projector has a crappy scaler, but its only a 480p projector, so I'm feeding it from a good progressive DVD player.

My LCD TV has a great scaler, so I feed that svideo, and it upscales to 720p and it looks fantastic (and its only a 30" screen, so any artifacts are not noticable)

If I upgraded the projector to a 720p one, and it still had a shitty scaler, then I'd consider an upscaling DVD player.

If you've got a great HDTV that has great scaling, you probably won't notice much difference buying an upsampling DVD player.