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Verhoven blames Basic Instinct 2 Flop on "conservative values"

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Ark-AMN

Banned
yep
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - The last time "Basic Instinct" man-eater Catherine Tramell prowled the big screen, the studio erotic thriller was hitting box office heights. The first "Instinct" took the top spot when it debuted in 1992, with an opening weekend of $15.1 million, the equivalent of $20.45 million in today's dollars.

By comparison, "Basic Instinct 2" limped into 10th place upon its arrival this weekend, grossing just $3.2 million.

In the years between the two films, a string of high-profile flops, including MGM's "Body of Evidence," United Artists' "Showgirls" and Paramount Pictures' "Jade," have all contributed to the cooling off of the erotic thriller, a genre that had once sizzled at the box office.

Paul Verhoeven, director of the first "Basic Instinct" (which scored $353 million worldwide) as well as the widely ridiculed "Showgirls" (now regarded as something of a camp classic), attributes the genre's demise to the current American political climate.

"Anything that is erotic has been banned in the United States," said the Dutch native. "Look at the people at the top (of the government). We are living under a government that is constantly hammering out Christian values. And Christianity and sex have never been good friends."

Scribe Nicholas Meyer, who was an uncredited writer on 1987's seminal sex-fueled cautionary tale "Fatal Attraction," agrees, noting that the genre's downfall coincides with the ascent of the conservative political movement.

"We're in a big puritanical mode," he said. "Now, it's like the McCarthy era, except it's not 'Are you a communist?' but 'Have you ever put sex in a movie?'"

For writers like Meyer, whose credits also include "The Human Stain," "Sommersby" and three "Star Trek" films, the erotic genre has become a tough sell for studios increasingly leery of adult-themed material. Despite receiving glowing coverage, he and co-writer Ron Roose have found no takers for their sexy screenplay "Spoils."

"Every studio that read it said, 'This is going to get made.' They just didn't want to be the one to make it," he said.

As writers find studios less receptive to the genre, fewer are attempting to craft the next "Body Heat" or "Sea of Love."

Mark Damon, once dubbed the king of eroticism for producing such steamy classics as 1986's "9 1/2 Weeks" and 1990's "Wild Orchid," said he stopped producing sex-steeped dramas because "I didn't find any scripts that were worth producing. The genre had exhausted itself."

During the golden era of the genre in the late '80s and early '90s, Damon estimates that 75% of the scripts he received were sex-laden thrillers, compared with only 2%-3% today.

"The agents are not requesting this type of script, so not many of them are being written anymore," said Damon, who more recently produced the Charlize Theron starrer "Monster." "That doesn't mean (the genre) can't be reborn again. I think for a good one with a good script, there is always an audience."

Meyer concurred, saying agents are dissuading their clients from the genre. "You can't blame them though because by and large, they are looking for projects that they think the studios will make,"

Despite the market downturn, "9 1/2 Weeks" and "Wild Orchid" scribe Zalman King is still penning erotic thrillers, including retro-sounding titles like "Nasty Girls Save the World." But he admits that the appetite for the genre has taken a hit, and he blames the international market.

"Korea used to be a big erotic thriller market (in the '80s and '90s). Japan, too. You used to be able to cobble deals together based on those markets, but it has become more difficult," said King, who also produced "9 1/2 Weeks" alongside Damon. "There used to be a way to finance erotic thrillers if you had the right cast based on the foreign market. The foreign market doesn't support it in the way that it used to. They are now embracing more mainstream fare."

Part of the problem, King said, is that agents are loath to put their actors and actresses in titillating fare despite the fact that Kim Basinger, Mickey Rourke, Richard Gere and Sharon Stone rocketed to fame thanks to memorable R-rated performances.

But in recent years, some high-profile actors have tackled the genre with mixed results. Meg Ryan, who made her career cultivating a girl-next-door persona, teamed with Oscar-nominated director Jane Campion in 2003 for the titillating "In the Cut." Ryan's performance was widely panned, and the Screen Gems film was a box office dud, earning less than $19 million worldwide.

But Diane Lane's 2002 turn as an adulterous wife in Adrian Lyne's "Unfaithful" revived her career, earning her a best actress Oscar nomination. The 20th Century Fox film also proved to be a surprise hit, grossing $122 million worldwide.

Nevertheless, the studios have only a handful of erotic thrillers in development. They include the Jim Carrey starrer "The Number 23" at New Line Cinema, the Jennifer Garner starrer "Sabbatical" at Disney's Touchstone Pictures and the "Basic Instinct"/Hitchcock homage "Need," which revolves around a psychiatrist, a patient and an extramarital affair.

For producer JC Spink, the genre's demise has little to do with politics, scripts or willing talent and everything to do with the Internet, which became ubiquitous in American homes around the same time studio executives were suffering through such debacles as "Body of Evidence," "Showgirls" and "Jade."

"Why pay $10 to see something at the movies that you can see for free on the Internet?" Spink asked. "I think the genre is suffering because sex is more pervasive in our society now than it was 10 years ago, from Vanity Fair ads to reality TV. I mean, there's porn stars on reality TV."


Still, Verhoeven said he would be game to direct a studio erotic thriller again if the right script comes along.

"If there would be a script written that had the quality of 'Basic Instinct,' or if Joe Eszterhas would be willing to dig himself into some new material and he would present it to me or a studio, then I would be highly interested," said Verhoeven, who is in postproduction on "Black Book," a World War II thriller with erotic elements that was fully financed by Europeans. "I like erotic thrillers. But in the last 10 years, I haven't found any scripts that interested me."
 

Newzboyz99

Losers! My wife has me on lock!
B.S. They are using Jade and Showgirls as evidence....lol. Thats like saying all comedies are dying because of Larry the Cable Guy: Health Inspector and (insert any other terrible comedy).

The movie is bombing because there are reasons they make these sequels 10 years later....scratching for money and everyone knows its gonna suck hard.
 

ManaByte

Member
Stop bitching about America and make this, bitch!
crusade-poster.jpg
 

mrroboto

Banned
Prospero said:
Reviews seem to indicate that the problem with Basic Instinct 2 is that it isn't erotic enough, though.

The leaked ie "viral marketing" footage looked pretty damn hot too me. Stone looks damn fine for over 40 years old. Damn.
 

Prospero

Member
mrroboto said:
The leaked ie "viral marketing" footage looked pretty damn hot too me. Stone looks damn fine for over 40 years old. Damn.

Problem is that the the trailer has nearly all the erotic content of the movie--one reviewer says it has shots that aren't even in the final cut. Here's a quote from a representative Rotten Tomatoes review:

Jeremy C. Fox said:
Most disappointingly, the film’s sex scenes are short and perfunctory, and his use of Stone seems politely avuncular; in interviews, she’s said she had to convince him to re-add nude scenes that he’d cut, yet they are still too few, too short, and too tame to show’s Catherine’s erotic voracity. We get little glimpses of naughtiness when we’ve been led to expect the whole megillah. It’s as if Stone’s vagina stormed off the set in the first week of shooting and hid out in its trailer until the wrap party.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Movie makers run out this sad excuse everytime a movie bombs.


Just a few years ago, the movie 'Unfaithfu'l came out and it did very well with a near-40 year old woman playing the sexy lead. Lots of gratuitious nudity, a male lead that females would want to see and a decent (passable) script.

People never want to say thier script sucks, or Sharon Stone isn't even a C-list star or that releasing any movie in March is near suicide. In the end, only the movie studios lose money, so do you think Verhoeven really cares?
 

Newzboyz99

Losers! My wife has me on lock!
1113908562.2925.jpg



Its about Arnold going around beating the snot out of people until the convert to christianity.

Damn...mana beat me to the punchline. :lol
 

explodet

Member
These days people don't need to go to the movie theater for eroticism, there are more than enough choices to explore at home - internet, movie rentals, cable/pay-per-view.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here...

Could the reason th emovie bombed POSSIBLY be that IT FUCKING SUCKS?

I know, it's a stretch.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The trailer just came off as insanely cheesy to me, especially at the end. Where you get the montage of her driving the sports car with reckless abandon and then making out with some guy under water.

And this is a couple of years to late. And maybe they shouldn't have called it Basic Instinct 2. Maybe a new subtitle would have been better. Tons of maybes!
 
Outcast2004 said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here...

Could the reason th emovie bombed POSSIBLY be that IT FUCKING SUCKS?

I know, it's a stretch.
QFT

And the original came out more than a decade ago.
 

Escape Goat

Member
How can we blame this on Bush?

Oh, Bush = conservative. Conservative values destroyed this film! Bush destroyed Basic Instinct 2!
 

ourumov

Member
Basic Instinct was an awesome movie...but as soon as I saw Mario Kassar was the producer I knew that sooner or later he was gonna screw it with a sequel.
 
Please. It has nothing to do with the current "conservative values".

The movie is a bomb because:

1) it's a bad movie
2) 10 years too late
3) no one wants to see an almost 50 yr old Sharon Stone get naked
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
heavy liquid said:
The movie is a bomb because:

1) it's a bad movie
2) 10 years too late
3) no one wants to see an almost 50 yr old Sharon Stone get naked
None of that explains why Slither flopped though. Such a great movie, it's a damn shame something apparently as mediocre as Ice Age 2 got all the focus :\ Then again, I love the studio that made Ice Age to death, their technology is wonderful, and their short "Bunny" is one of the best things I ever watched on my TV, so I have mixed feelings about their commercial success with Ice Age movies...
 
Marconelly said:
None of that explains why Slither flopped though. Such a great movie, it's a damn shame something apparently as mediocre as Ice Age 2 got all the focus :\ Then again, I love the studio that made Ice Age to death, their technology is wonderful, and their short "Bunny" is one of the best things I ever watched on my TV, so I have mixed feelings about their commercial success with Ice Age movies...

Yeah, too bad with Slither. I blame the marketing with that one. I've heard some pretty awful radio ads for it, and the TV spots didn't do much for me either. It's received a lot of good reviews, so who knows, maybe word of mouth will keep the film around for a while. I can see it doing well on DVD after it's theatrical run, like Napoleon Dynamite or Sean of the Dead.

As for Basic Instinct 2, if they had a better script and gotten someone like Jessica Alba or Keira Knightly or whoever to be the lead they might have had a chance. Trying to make it a direct sequel and casting Sharon Stone was it's death sentence.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Slither flopped because I don't think it was marketed with a clear message.... first the ads painted it as a humorous movie that had weird creatures in it with a strange love story.... then all of the sudden it's painted as a horror movie with a bit more emphasis on the funny than usual....

Mixed signals indeed.
 

Newzboyz99

Losers! My wife has me on lock!
I think alot of people are turned off by the Slither ads...looks disgusting. Just anedoctal though.
 

phonte

Banned
anyone doubting the constrainedly prudish state of popular public mediums in this country has absolutely no clue.

look to what happened to cbs recently, where they were fined for a simulated orgy between teenagers on 'cold case,' for evidence of the quasi-censorship we're subject to.
 
DarienA said:
Slither flopped because I don't think it was marketed with a clear message.... first the ads painted it as a humorous movie that had weird creatures in it with a strange love story.... then all of the sudden it's painted as a horror movie with a bit more emphasis on the funny than usual....

Mixed signals indeed.

These type of movie ALWAYS flop at the box office. Eight Legged Freaks was the last one and other highlights are Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness. They normally do become cult classics after the fact.
 

madara

Member
Yeah that makes alot sense. It explains why only Nintendo games sell really well. Why Wind Waker was so highly recieved when unveiled, why GTA, FPS and the huge western push to more violent and realistic games did so poorly. Damn this purtian world we live in, hell even films like Sin City flopped because of its extreme violence and womanizing and look at Squid and the Whale, the poor film was only trying to be realisticly dark and ends up being one of worst recieved movies of all time.
 

Tamanon

Banned
The puritan world is why BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN(pretty much the anti-puritan movie) did so poorly.

Oh wait.....
 

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
i think it's more likely that the increasing ubiquity of actual porn killed basic instinct 2.

edit: oh wait, "jc spink" beat me to it in the article proper. "jc spink" sounds like a porn name.
 
heavy liquid said:
As for Basic Instinct 2, if they had a better script and gotten someone like Jessica Alba or Keira Knightly or whoever to be the lead they might have had a chance. Trying to make it a direct sequel and casting Sharon Stone was it's death sentence.


I agree with this. If they got an up and coming actress that the majority of the public WANTED to see naked and a recognizable male lead then the film might have gotten a 10+ million opening. I read somewhere that the few people who did see Basic Instict 2, 60% were males over 30 or something. That tells you this film had zero appeal for young males.

With the Internet and Skinemax, a 50 year-old Sharon Stone just won't cut it these days.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
I would have gone to watch but appearently your not allowed to toss your junk around in the theaters

-$6-$9.50 for Basic Instincts 2
 
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