Support NeoGAF

[ProgenitorCastle]

Hey GAF, a humorous thought came to me...was thinking that David Cage was the original Neil Druckmann in the sense that they want gaming to be like interactive movies and don't embrace gaminess in games and such. What say you GAF, do you think David Cage is the original Neil Druckmann?

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[ShaquilleOatmeal]

Druckmann's games are FAR more fun than Cage's from a gameplay perspective.

By miles. Not even close.

 

[tommib]

Bad take, man. And kind of shortsighted. Cage's Omikron was open world and wanted you to do everything in it. He then shifted for a more of a point and click approach, heavily cinematic, but with tons of narrative branches.

Last of us 2 without the cutscenes is a playground of stealth, shooting, ammo management, melee combat…

I think the so-called walking simulators are more interested in removing the "gameplay" focus. And by the way, this is not a problem. Let's have games with everything and for everyone. Choice is good. I'm totally gameplay-centric these days but most of my pleasure in the 90s came from FMV games like Under a Killing Moon.

 

[Connificent]

Nah, Cage is cool.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What if they were the same person all along?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Da fuq?.
You dumb dawg.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

David Cage > Bruce > Drunckman

 

[Fbh]

I think Drunckman is the worst thing to have happened to Naughty Dog and has single handedly almost killed my interest in the studio.


But David Cage is like if you ordered Niel Drunckman on Wish.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Hey GAF, a humorous thought came to me...was thinking that David Cage was the original Neil Druckmann in the sense that they want gaming to be like interactive movies and don't embrace gaminess in games and such. What say you GAF, do you think David Cage is the original Neil Druckmann?

????

 

[Dream-Knife]

Wouldn't that be Kojima? MGS4 has more cutscenes than gameplay.

 

[bender]

While Uncharted and TLOU of a dumbed down knock offs of other popular games, they are far more mechanically dense than Cage's QTE filled choose your own adventure games. The opening bathroom scene in Indigo Prophecy showed a lot of promise but nothing that came after that came close to living up to that potential and largely failed because Cage is a God awful writer.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I think Drunckman is the worst thing to have happened to Naughty Dog and has single handedly almost killed my interest in the studio.


But David Cage is like if you ordered Niel Drunckman on Wish.

Actually No…TLOU II is unmatched…just because Joel died doesn't mean he "suckz".

 

[ShaquilleOatmeal]

????

I can point and shoot like a typical third person shooter would allow. David Cage's work are movies disguised as games with quick time events.

 

[Aion002]

Wouldn't that be Kojima? MGS4 has more cutscenes than gameplay.

MGO 2 is probably one of the most memorable mp games that graced the ps3.

MGS4 gameplay is incredible.

MGSV gameplay is amazing, ZOE2 is extremely fun, MGS1 and 2 were top notch at the time...

 

[ShaquilleOatmeal]

Actually No…TLOU II is unmatched…just because Joel died doesn't mean he "suckz".

You're 100% right.

Druckmann gets flogged because some people hated Abby. Gameplay was top tier.

 

[Skifi28]

The combat in last of us 2 is great. I have no idea how one would play it and say it wants to be an interactive movie.

 

[adamsapple]

Until we start getting credible harassment claims against Druckman, no they're not even close.

 

[Barakov]

 

[Dream-Knife]

MGO 2 is probably one of the most memorable mp games that graced the ps3.

MGS4 gameplay is incredible.

MGSV gameplay is amazing, ZOE2 is extremely fun, MGS1 and 2 were top notch at the time...

Ya drunk?

Never played MGO, but disagree on MGS4 gameplay being incredible. It was play for 15 mins and sit through 30 mins of cutscenes. And lets not pretend Metal Gear has a good story.

I do agree MGSV was fantastic.

Only played a little bit of ZOE. Need to get back to it. The VR mode is neat.

 

[Aion002]

Never played MGO, but disagree on MGS4 gameplay being incredible. It was play for 15 mins and sit through 30 mins of cutscenes. And lets not pretend Metal Gear has a good story.

I do agree MGSV was fantastic.

Only played a little bit of ZOE. Need to get back to it. The VR mode is neat.

If I am remembering right every cutscene on MGS4 can be skipped.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I enjoyed Heavy Rain at the time, haven't played anything by him since. Druckmann has good taste in games & TLOU Part II was fire but there's been some really poor management regarding ND (no new IP announcement, dragging their feet with the MP game and TLOU Part I remake wtf) and even then I've STILL got Neil D's back. David Cage makes meme games.

 

[Dream-Knife]

If I am remembering right every cutscene on MGS4 can be skipped.

Doesn't change the fact that the gameplay is pretty bare. It even includes a shitty stalking mission.

 

[Yoboman]

Has OP played a game from either?

 

[Jormatar]

Gotta love the hateboner some people have for a guy who constantly scores in the 90s in metacritic with his games.

 

[balls of snow]

Name me one 3rd person shooter that is as visceral and impactful as Tlou2. Just one. Gameplay as secondary my ass.

 

[balls of snow]

The combat in last of us 2 is great. I have no idea how one would play it and say it wants to be an interactive movie.

They :
1) Didnt play it.
2) Play it on baby's very easy mode.

 

[TexMex]

The absolute hardon this board has for Druckmann never ceases to amaze.

 

[Pedro Motta]

yep, this is a new all time low IQ thread in this forum.

 

[Lady Jane]

Gotta love the hateboner some people have for a guy who constantly scores in the 90s in metacritic with his games.

Video game writers are full of book publisher rejects. Writing for the video gaming crowd is low hanging fruit

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The problem is that David Cage's games (since Heavy Rain anyway...) don't really offer much in terms of interactivity (I know you have input, but it's more Dragon's Lair than a fully formed game... You play the story.

The ND games have proper top of the line gameplay mechanics surrounded by not interactive intermissions that tell most of the game's story. I could get through any Uncharted game, TLoU or TLoU2 without watching any of the cut scenes and enjoy the games just as much (or even more in the case of those who don't like the game's story).

The absolute hardon this board has for Druckmann never ceases to amaze.

Got a problem with that?

 

[mortal]

Your comparison is nonsensical and surface level at best.

 

[Kilau]

Nah, Cage was able to get the real Ellen Page in his game.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Hey GAF, a humorous thought came to me...was thinking that David Cage was the original Neil Druckmann in the sense that they want gaming to be like interactive movies and don't embrace gaminess in games and such. What say you GAF, do you think David Cage is the original Neil Druckmann?

I thank both of these guys for bringing in more of these kinds of interactive narratives. While I'm not a fan of TLOU Part 1 Remake, I don't understand how people just think TLOU lacks gameplay, especially Part 2 when it has incredible level design, smarter AI and physics, and a lot of interaction in combat. The combat looks eons above most due to how arcade-y most games still feel. NPC's feel more believable and also interact with the environment semi-independently of the player.

Why can't a game focus on a strong narrative? Why can't there be room for different kinds of games? Right now, there is a renaissance of game-y games. Metroidvanias, Soulslikes, Roguelites/likes, side scrollers, online shooters, difficult platformers, strategy games, Beat Em Ups, etc. Why don't you go play those instead? You are finally being catered to and you still gripe.

 

[Captain Toad]

Have you actually played TLOU Part 2. It would have been a very good game with no story at all.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Johnny > David

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Have you actually played TLOU Part 2. It would have been a very good game with no story at all.

Some may even say…

A BETTER game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Name me one 3rd person shooter that is as visceral and impactful as Tlou2. Just one. Gameplay as secondary my ass.

gears of war?
most GTAs?

 

[Nocturno999]

Well, Cage directed Omicron. A very visionary game. I'm not a fan of his recent work but at least they were great experiments.

 

[SlimySnake]

MGO 2 is probably one of the most memorable mp games that graced the ps3.

MGS4 gameplay is incredible.

MGSV gameplay is amazing, ZOE2 is extremely fun, MGS1 and 2 were top notch at the time...

Yes and TLOU2's gameplay is amazing too. Maybe not as good as MGSV, but it has its own strengths.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Actually No…TLOU II is unmatched…just because Joel died doesn't mean he "suckz".

You are right. The issue was the writing, story, story arcs, characters, shallow gameplay, forgettable music, forgettable "set pieces", and bland level design.

Cage at least had a semi unique hook to his "gameplay". Druckman just followed the basic formula that Naught Dog has failed to update or move past from.

 

[Woggleman]

TLOU2 gameplay is so good that people are mad because the remake isn't more like it. Just because it has a story around it does not mean that it is an interactive movie. This narrative is tired.

 

[Dorohedoro]

Name me one 3rd person shooter that is as visceral and impactful as Tlou2. Just one. Gameplay as secondary my ass.

Max Payne 3 probably comes the closest even tho it didn't have have the same amount of gore.

You are right. The issue was the writing, story, story arcs, characters, shallow gameplay, forgettable music, forgettable "set pieces", and bland level design.

Cage at least had a semi unique hook to his "gameplay". Druckman just followed the basic formula that Naught Dog has failed to update or move past from.

Only thing I agree with might be the music. I don't think it has as many memorable tracks as the first game. I thought it had great level design and not sure what people want with the gameplay, it's a sequel to another TPS and if they changed it too much from TLoU1 a lot of people would've ragged on it for that too.

 

[Captain Toad]

You are right. The issue was the writing, story, story arcs, characters, shallow gameplay, forgettable music, forgettable "set pieces", and bland level design.

Cage at least had a semi unique hook to his "gameplay". Druckman just followed the basic formula that Naught Dog has failed to update or move past from.

TLOU2 gameplay is miles ahead of TLOU. That's why people were so pissed to see Part 1 looks like it didn't get the combat from Part 2. That seemed like the entire point of the remake.

 

[IntentionalPun]

No.. he's always made action games w/ narratives.. there's a pretty wide gulf between that and David Cage's "games."

(it's still not wide enough of a gulf for me personally though, as I get soooo bored doing the interactive movie garbage sequences, but there is still an ACTUAL GAME burried behind all that unskippable snoozefest)

 

[Meicyn]

Riveting gameplay.

 

[Ezquimacore]

Both are trash

 

[Ezquimacore]

gears of war?
most GTAs?

People here have amnesia and they forget how gears of war was a revolution of the genre

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Max Payne 3 probably comes the closest even tho it didn't have have the same amount of gore.


Only thing I agree with might be the music. I don't think it has as many memorable tracks as the first game. I thought it had great level design and not sure what people want with the gameplay, it's a sequel to another TPS and if they changed it too much from TLoU1 a lot of people would've ragged on it for that too.

I wanted something that offered more of an evolution than "You can prone now!". Obviously being a bit facetious as they *did* add a bit more than that, but overall it felt incredibly generic and forgettable.

TLOU2 gameplay is miles ahead of TLOU. That's why people were so pissed to see Part 1 looks like it didn't get the combat from Part 2. That seemed like the entire point of the remake.

The gameplay was mostly the same with a couple new tricks that really didn't add much to the experience. If you want a proper stealth game go play MGSV and the choices it offers as both a third person shooter and a stealth title. Hell, THIEF and THIEF II: The Metal Age offered more choice and complexity in its gameplay than TLOU1 or 2 did.