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[Templar Wizard]

we read all the time about how western developers love playing 'the latest [revered jap franchise]' or 'anything by developed xxxxxx-san', but does it cut both ways?

have major japanese developers played the very important, must-have 'western' games?
like Doom, Deus Ex, Goldeneye, Half-life, Starcraft, tie-fighter, operation-flashpoint, grim fandango, planescape torment etc..
(hmmm that list is very pc centric, but i will amend with some western console classics in a little while)

you can tell the devs of Breakdown played the hell out of half-life, due to entire senquences being lifted from the game, but who else?

i dont believe its the reason that 'jappers get sick from FPS's', because there is more to western games than invisible body shooters.

image if kojima tasted the delicate story-telling of Torment and deus ex, and the majesty of the sites of Everon, would i he look at his MGS series in the same way?

 

[NotMSRP]

They appreciate the cream of the crop stuff of ours just as we appreciate the cream of the crop stuff of theirs. Aside from great PC classics, it is hard to find other cream of the crop stuff.

 

[dark10x]

Can you imagine the amount of work required to properly localize something like Torment? THAT would be A LOT of work...

 

[Greekboy]

What was it that Snoop Dogg said at The Source awards back in the early 1990's in New York? Something about the East not showing the West any love and that "it's on".

 

[Templar Wizard]

not sales figures, but respect.

im wondering do any of the 'heads' ever included a western game in their 'holy top 5'

 

[Belfast]

I'm pretty sure they like Jak/R&C games over there.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I'll make a baseless statement that I think it has to do with the quality of arcades in comparison, as in you can get more of a action/racing/fighting/rhythm game fix in any arcade easily, even the not so big city I was in had great arcades. So why buy those genres, or at least as many of them? Since the majority of the quality american games fall into the action category, there just may be a lack of interest when it comes to purchasing time.
Just a pointless observation.
Templar - I obviously can't speak for devs, but I can't imagine they spend too much time playing recent games. Especially if any of the companies run like I've heard some do, what with the long hours and all.

 

[Flynn]

Wasn't Crash Bandicoot huge in Japan?

Perhaps there were tons of Naughty Dog fans.

 

[nubbe]

What was it Howard Stern said in Private Parts…

 

[Templar Wizard]

guys, take your eyes off the sales figures for a moment. think outside the box.

games buying public and games producers are COMPLETELY different.

 

[Blackace]

guys, take your eyes off the sales figures for a moment. think outside the box.

games buying public and games producers are COMPLETELY different.

I would say yes they have respect for US companies... but do they want to change the way they think... then I would say no...

They make games for the JAPANESE market... and that is all... until the JAPANESE market forces them to change they won't even if they get killed outside of it... but as far as developers playing western games I would say yes...for the younger generation of developers... the older gen doesn't even think outside of the little tiny scope they are in...

 

[Jonnyboy117]

Lately some Japanese developers have expressed admiration for GTA III/VC.

Western developers have historically focused on sports and FPS games, which don't have any market in Japan and thus are probably not played by most developers.

 

[akascream]

I think it's safe to say that starcraft is played in the east.

 

[Shompola]

Itagaki loves Microsoft.

 

[Templar Wizard]

I think it's safe to say that starcraft is played in the east.

 

[SyNapSe]

Western developers have historically focused on sports and FPS games

What the hell are all those Create your own J. League something something Soccer/Baseball Club games that I see in the charts in JPN, and I thought I just saw Champ Manager/FIFA in the rankings. I can't argue the FPS tho, but it seems they like sports games.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Er, only on FPS and sports? Historically, it's been all about RPGs and Adventures. FPSs aren't released all that often

 

[Blackace]

Er, only on FPS and sports? Historically, it's been all about RPGs and Adventures. FPSs aren't released all that often

western rpgs?????

Every little company has a FPS "Using the quake 2 engine" or some crap

 

[akascream]

western rpgs?????

I think its pretty safe to assume that eastern RPG's wouldn't exist without western RPG's (D&D).

 

[Blackace]

I think its pretty safe to assume that eastern RPG's wouldn't exist without western RPG's (D&D).

Pen and paper RPGs maybe... but we are kind of talking about the video game industry

 

[cvxfreak]

Itagaki loves Microsoft.

And Dyack loves Nintendo - doesn't he?

 

[akascream]

Pen and paper RPGs maybe... but we are kind of talking about the video game industry

There are lots of D&D videogames and have been for years. Ever since the SSI games, Champions of Krynn, SotSB, PoR, the eye of the beholder games ect, ect. There are rpg's not based on those rules too in hero's quest. Shit.. you could go even further back than that getting into text based rpg's, bbs games, ect.

 

[Azih]

the grand daddy of Eastern RPGs Dragon Quest is based pretty heavily on AD&D if I remember correctly.

In any case I remember reading in the EGM 100th issue or something that one Japanese developer absolutely loved Diablo.

 

[Blackace]

Sure... but Japanese RPGs didn't come out much later than the old SSi games (Which I loved by the way... I am not saying they are bad games before anyone misreads my post) they years between the two are not that far... so saying that Japanese RPGs are here only because of RPGs from the 80s..is a little bit of a reach...considering that both were coming out about the same time...

 

[Guzim]

Didn't Kojima and his group play Counter Strike while making MGS2: Substance?

 

[rastex]

guys, take your eyes off the sales figures for a moment. think outside the box.

games buying public and games producers are COMPLETELY different.

I disagree. I'd say most of the game developers are gamers as well, and will play the games they want to play. If they follow the trend of the rest of the Japanese public, which is pretty safe to say they do, then they most likely do NOT play the majority of Western games. I honestly think you'd really be surprised at how little game devs know about other games, even in their own market. Of course you'll have some people who know a TON and everybody knows at least a little bit, but in terms of averages, I'd say the average gamer on GAF probably knows more about current games than the average game developer. But that's because you're all nuts

 

[akascream]

Sure... but Japanese RPGs didn't come out much later than the old SSi games (Which I loved by the way... I am not saying they are bad games before anyone misreads my post) they years between the two are not that far... so saying that Japanese RPGs are here only because of RPGs from the 80s..is a little bit of a reach...considering that both were coming out about the same time...

I wasn't.. I was saying they probably wouldn't exist without a western , albeit pen/paper, RPG. And there were streams of great western rpg's based off D&D (and many that weren't) aswell. I was just kinda thrown that you were confused so much over the concept of western rpgs.

 

[jarrod]

There's lots of diehard fps fans at AM2 iirc.

 

[Blackace]

I wasn't.. I was saying they probably wouldn't exist without a western , albeit pen/paper, RPG. And there were streams of great western rpg's based off D&D (and many that weren't) aswell. I was just kinda thrown that you were confused so much over the concept of western rpgs.

Aha! Well not confused...but they have sort of killed off that part of "Western" gaming... companies like EA (ECA for the old school) used to make nothing but RPGs... now seems like FPS games just pop up like cockroaches (You see one and 32 more will be out in a month) Not that Japanese devs are mixing things up real well themselves....

 

[aku:jiki]

Sure... but Japanese RPGs didn't come out much later than the old SSi games (Which I loved by the way... I am not saying they are bad games before anyone misreads my post) they years between the two are not that far... so saying that Japanese RPGs are here only because of RPGs from the 80s..is a little bit of a reach...considering that both were coming out about the same time...

Well, then again, stuff like Ultima predate DQ by quite a few years. I remember hearing lately that Lord British was very popular in Japan in the 80's. (Hence Vic Viper's sidekick's name, for example.)

There's a promotional "making of Pro Evolution Soccer 3" movie put out by Konami of Europe. In it, they talk a whole lot about how Seabass (main producer dude) was/is hopelessly addicted to Unreal Tournament and would play it constantly, even at work.

 

[akascream]

And we haven't even started talking about MMO's, which are probably the best kind of rpg anyway. You could almost say that a linear game with stats isn't really an rpg at all in comparison. The freedom you have in character creation, to wander a world. There are few single player rpg's that offer this experience (old SSI games, BG, Morrowind comes to mind).

 

[Blackace]

Well, then again, stuff like Ultima predate DQ by quite a few years. I remember hearing lately that Lord British was very popular in Japan in the 80's. (Hence Vic Vipers sidekick's name, for example.)

There's a promotional "making of Pro Evolution Soccer 3" movie put out by Konami of Europe. In it, they talk a whole lot about how Seabass (main producer dude) was/is crazy addicted to Unreal Tournament and would play it constantly during any break he could get.

Yeah Ultima did come out before DQ...but is DQ the first Japanese RPG? if not then why are you using it as a measuring stick?

 

[Blackace]

And we haven't even started talking about MMO's, which are probably the best kind of rpg anyway. You could almost say that a linear game with stats isn't really an rpg at all in comparison. The freedom you have in character creation, to wander a world. There are few single player rpg's that offer this experience (old SSI games, BG, Morrowind comes to mind).

hahah well to totally derail this thread... I'd have to disagree with you a bit on the MMO part.... games like SSI games, BG, Morrowind(arena daggerfall) and KoTOR are awesome for their open ended gameplay. However MMO's don't give you the exact same thing that linear and open ended RPGs a story and a purpose... to be the hero (or nasty overlord) I mean a real hero... the hero of the world (or nasty overlord). without that....the only real purpose is to level up.... camp for monsters and be a part of a chatroom with graphics....

 

[Teknopathetic]

Err, there are'nt really near as many FPSs as there are RPGs and adventures if you go back. You said historically, and historically, adventures and RPGs easily trump FPSs. FPSs are just currently the most popular.

 

[akascream]

MMO's are definately limited in that respect, yes. You have to allow the same opportunities to all paying customers. Though a player will still be in epic roles in the eyes of lowbies, they won't have advantages over anyone else willing enough to learn the game and put enough time into it. And for me, that's fine. I don't like RPG's where I am the center of the universe.

That said, there is still more freedom in MMO's than any other genre of videogame RPG right now IMO. But if I ever crave more than that, I can just break out my dice anyway.

 

[Blackace]

Err, there are'nt really near as many FPSs as there are RPGs and adventures if you go back. You said historically, and historically, adventures and RPGs easily trump FPSs. FPSs are just currently the most popular.

I didn't say.... but the thing that threw me off... is "FPS are not released all that often" which isn't true ever since Quake was released...

 

[Teknopathetic]

There really *aren't* that many FPSs released anymore (barring this year, holy shit), I mean if you look at all the releases, this year has like 8 or so? It just so happens that a lot of the high profile games that are coming out/came out are in fact, FPSs.

 

[Blackace]

If you clump MMOs into the RPG section... and adventure (which has been dead for the last 2 years) then I'd be abe to say ok... but FPS games vs stand alone RPGs during the last 5 or 6 years FPS games win hands down...

 

[Teknopathetic]

Blackace: We've deterred from the original point that I was arguing that western games aren't historically FPSs and sports.

 

[Blackace]

Blackace: We've deterred from the original point that I was arguing that western games aren't historically FPSs and sports.

Well we kind of deterred from the main point of the whole thread... (however I enjoy our chat more! )


Yes you are right!.... However I would say that western games have tight casted themselves into FPS/Sports companies today...

 

[Teknopathetic]

"However I would say that western games have tight casted themselves into FPS/Sports companies today..."

Totally, although Bioware's getting a lot more fans now due to KOTOR and so on, hopefully they'll kick all western developers in the pants and they'll get on the ball for some more RPGs. And yeah, Graphic Adventures have died with Sierra's mishandling and LucasArts just giving a big ole "fuck you" to Al Lowe. Sad, truthfully.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

have major japanese developers played the very important, must-have 'western' games?

Yes, there are many fans of Western games among Japanese developers, more than among the general Japanese public. By the way, according to their developers Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were directly influenced by the early Ultima and Wizardry games.

e.g.

Official PlayStation2 Magazine: How did you become involved with the game industry?

Hironobu Sakaguchi: I used an Apple computer as a hobby when I was a college student; it was the time of new concepts like spreadsheets, as well as adventure and role-playing games. I ended up barely going to college at all and spent most of my time on the computer instead. I really enjoyed Wizardry, Ultima and an adventure game called Transylvania by Penguin Software. I eventually switched to programming them myself and I started working for Square as a part-timer when the company was established - I was making Y700 ( 4 UK ~ $6 US) an hour back then.

 

[budala1]

Itagaki loves Microsoft.

Itagaki loves money

 

[Templar Wizard]

Yes, there are many fans of Western games among Japanese developers, more than among the general Japanese public. By the way, according to their developers Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were directly influenced by the early Ultima and Wizardry games.

e.g.

wonderful, this is the kind of stuff i was talking about. sales figures and pissing contests on what constitutes a western game is not.