Which is better, progressive scan or Dolby ProLogic II

J

JackFrost2012

Banned
So, let's say there's this game.

This game will have EITHER...

1) progressive scan (480p only)
2) Dolby ProLogic II surround sound (not digital, ProLogic)

...but not both.

As a technically minded gamer person, which audiovisual enhancement means more to you? If you could only have one of those two "bonuses," which would you prefer?
 
Hold on lemme thinkPROGRESSIVE SCAN.

Seriously, ProLogic II is shitty faux surround from the 1980s. When I see "Dolby ProLogic II" I think "AdLib music synthesizer."
 
Definitely progressive scan. I usually have my stereo going loud anyway, so the games are usually muted unless it's needed.
 
Close call, but i choose Pro Logic II. All things being equal (usage of progressive scan vesus usage of Pro Logic II) , being encased in a soundfield is more submersive than a crystal clear picture.
 
Close call, but i choose Pro Logic II. All things being equal (usage of progressive scan vesus usage of Pro Logic II) , being encased in a soundfield is more submersive than a crystal clear picture.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The jump between mon/stereo and DPLII is much more important to the experience than the jump between non progressive and progressive(unless you're hooked up via rf or something).
 
i'd probably go with pro-logic. i don't exactly have a tv that would do any kind of justice to progressive scan- and i don't think that a lot of games right now live up to higher resolutions anyway. i think that some really intricate, detailed things (layers, tones) can happen in the sound design of a game that can easily be missed otherwise. and a really good sound environment has a way of making me feel completely immersed in the game world. but then- it also depends on the game, right? you don't need pro logic for a game like katamari damacy.
 
dolbypl2.jpg


Crank it up baby!
 
For the record, this is STUPID FAKE NOT ACTUAL SURROUND ProLogic II not COOL REAL ACTUAL SURROUND Dolby Digital. Though I hesitate to influence your answer.
 
I can't understand why the two have to be mutually exclusive though.
Also, 480p isn't that useful nowadays.
I'd probably take the sound enhancement.
 
I've always wondered what I am missing pumping DPL2 signals through my DPL1 receiver. I mean, does it even work?
 
Jonnyram said:
I can't understand why the two have to be mutually exclusive though.
Also, 480p isn't that useful nowadays.
Click to expand...

Me neither, but that's the basis of this thought experiment.

What do you find not useful about 480p?
 
Brandon F said:
I've always wondered what I am missing pumping DPL2 signals through my DPL1 receiver. I mean, does it even work?
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It works, you just get the same sound from both rear speakers. DPL2 is a forward and backward compatible evolution of DPL. Just like the new Dolby Digital standard that should be included in all next gen systems in fact.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
What do you find not useful about 480p?
Click to expand...
Well the difference between regular TV and 480p is just a matter of interlacing. The difference between stereo and DPL2 is more significant. Maybe it's because my ears work better than my eyes.
 
I can't answer the question, because I never played in progressive scan... I do play in DPLII though and I love it, the speakers have to be placed/distanced JUST RIGHT for the effect to really work though. I had my rear/surround speakers placed to the sides but a little to the back of my listening position for the past year or so, and I have to admit that the surround effect wasn't very immersive... But just a couple of days ago I changed their position to right beside my ears, just a hair to the back and above (and adjusted their numerical distance on the amp of course) and I was STUNNED by what a huge difference it made, everything sounds so much better all of a sudden... Can't wait to play all my games with my corrected setup now.

Word of advice: make sure your 5.1 system is setup up perfectly, it's worth it.

I really wish I had a progressive scan TV.
 
For the record, this is STUPID FAKE NOT ACTUAL SURROUND ProLogic II not COOL REAL ACTUAL SURROUND Dolby Digital. Though I hesitate to influence your answer.
Click to expand...

I can't help but think you may have been slightly biased before you asked the question :)

FWIW, I'd take pro scan over DPL II. If it was proper 5.1 then it would depend on the game in question.
 
aoi tsuki said:
Close call, but i choose Pro Logic II. All things being equal (usage of progressive scan vesus usage of Pro Logic II) , being encased in a soundfield is more submersive than a crystal clear picture.
Click to expand...


I second that! DPLII is easy downplayed but gives a very good surround effect to say the least!
 
Pro Scan (or higher) all the way. The crisp and clean look is something I am used to now cause of the many pro scan games on the Cube and I have a hard time doing without. More important then DPII for me, although it's still welcome.

If only great games like MGS3 were Pro Scan 16:9 :)
 
I would take ANTI ALIASING AND MIPMAPPING over 480P AND DPL2

DMC3 might be an awesome looking game, but damn it does bear a strong resemblance to a broken bottle.
 
WTF, people are seriously misguided about Pro Logic II.

When an audio stream is encoded to be specifically decoded by PLII, it can have 5.1 discrete channels, just like Dolby Digital. Factor 5 invented the tools along with Dolby Labs.
 
Erm....no...

DPL2 does *NOT* have 5.1 channels of discrete audio in any configuration....only the Dolby Digital suite of codecs (DD, Virtual DD, Dolby Headphone,DD EX, DD Plus) have Discrete audio in all channels

What is great about DPL2 is the fact that it has *full bandwidth* audio (20Hz-20KHz) in all channels except the LFE (unlike DPL which is attenuated at 1Khz) but Left Surround and Right Surround is still derived from the front soundfield in DPL2.....thats right, they are matrixed channels :D

No full discrete audio for you in DPL2 :)


That said, compared to your eyes, our ears are quite "dumb" so progressive scan video might be important for most people....

For me, as big a graphic whore as I have come to be, I am even a bigger audiowhore (ask anyone who knows me here and they will confirm this)

To me, audio plays the biggest part of creating atmosphere in a game and greatly helps suspend disbelief, in my view....if you can't have discrete audio, DPL2 or (better yet) DPL2x is great when mixed properly by the competent engineer (the same can be said of discrete audio, which is not automatically better just because it has higher specifications)

I am all about the eargasm...
 
Tabris said:
1) Progressive Scan.
2) Widescreen (hopefully Natural)
3) Dolby Pro Logic II
Click to expand...

I'd put PL2 2nd and WS 3rd.. When you have progressive scan the picture is good enough, WS is just a nice bonus.
Still, good audio > WS. :)
 
Sound all the way, my TV does a great job with non Pro-Scan. The technolgy is far better to upgrade a picture then it is to upgrade sound.
 
Progressive Scan makes an absolutely enoormous difference on my TV set. I won't even play a game that doesn't have it. That's how big a difference it makes.

PLII is a fake surround. And considering my receiver can do it even if the source isn't in PLII, well, that makes it's value about nill. Considering I get it free, no matter what.
 
Kleegamefan said:
Erm....no...

DPL2 does *NOT* have 5.1 channels of discrete audio in any configuration....only the Dolby Digital suite of codecs (DD, Virtual DD, Dolby Headphone,DD EX, DD Plus) have Discrete audio in all channels

What is great about DPL2 is the fact that it has *full bandwidth* audio (20Hz-20KHz) in all channels except the LFE (unlike DPL which is attenuated at 1Khz) but Left Surround and Right Surround is still derived from the front soundfield in DPL2.....thats right, they are matrixed channels :D

No full discrete audio for you in DPL2 :)
Click to expand...


Eh, I guess I wasn't too clear in what I said. When using DPLII on a 2 channel source, it matrixes the surround and center channel information. But the Factor 5 developed tools enabled the use of fully positional 3D audio output in real-time. I shouldn't have called it strictly and technically discrete, but the effect is very close to 5 discrete channels.

IGNcube: What is Dolby Pro Logic II and what does it mean to GameCube owners who buy Rogue Leader?

Julian Eggebrecht: Dolby Pro Logic II is a new technology from Dolby Labs which allows us via a proprietary encoder which we developed to have full positional five-channel sound in real-time for Rogue Leader. DPLII was originally developed as a supplement to DD to get more out of old Stereo and Dolby Surround material and it does a remarkable job with it, but we are taking it to a completely new level.

Dolby was nice enough to give us an early prototype DPLII decoder and we set out to find a way to get full positional audio going - something not even Dolby expected to be possible. This, combined with the fact that DPLII has no latency, no compression, the full frequency range on all five channels, works with existing cables, and is even backwards compatible with stereo and surround equipment makes it the perfect five-channel audio system for games.

IGNcube: How does the technology work?

Thomas Engel: You use the regular stereo-cable for your GameCube. If you have a stereo setup, you will hear very nice stereo effects with a bit of additional spatial positioning going on. If you have a Pro Logic receiver, you will get very good real-time 4 channel surround sound with the old DPL drawbacks of reduced frequencies in the back and very limited channel separation.


Factor 5's technical wizard Thomas Engel

If you have a receiver that has DPLII, you switch it to the DPLII movie mode and you play Rogue Leader in full five-channel audio (stereo surrounds) with extremely accurate channel separation, the extra oomph via a subwoofer and all the other features. The technology is great because it is so easy and transparent to use. No extra cables or settings involved - a very, very clean solution for games. And of course there are no tricks: All sound effects in the game are encoded in real-time in full 3D, so if a Tie zooms by behind you it does that in the rear surrounds just as you are used to from good cinema five-channel setups. We have no channel limitation for 3D voices so all channels the audio uses are full 3D channels.
Click to expand...
 
Progressive scan in my case. The inclusion of 480p is often a deal breaker for me when choosing multiplatform games or games that I'm iffy about picking up. I have a reciever that does DPII, but I only have a set of front speakers at the moment, so sound it small factor for me in the first place. But even if I had a reall surround sound set up at my place, I'd probably prefer the visual enhancements over the audio.
 
shpankey said:
PLII is a fake surround. And considering my receiver can do it even if the source isn't in PLII, well, that makes it's value about nill. Considering I get it free, no matter what.
Click to expand...

Not when a game is specifically written for it using the Factor 5 tools; see above.
 
Zaptruder said:
I would take ANTI ALIASING AND MIPMAPPING over 480P AND DPL2

DMC3 might be an awesome looking game, but damn it does bear a strong resemblance to a broken bottle.
Click to expand...

DMC3 looks suprisingly good on my rptv I just wish it had a widescreen option =/ you can't even play in a slightly scaled mode because you cant see your lifebar and god knows you need to see your lifebar in that game
 
kaching said:
Widescreen over both.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that. My TV does a fine enough job of de-interlacing for me, and playing a game in full 16x9 is much more immersive than any other option.
 
I'm sorry, but how in the world can compare the value of an audio enhancement to a video enhancement. You are comparing apples to oranges. It is going to be a 50/50 split. I'll pull a Lucas quote for you. "Half of a movie is sound." Simple, yea, but you get the point. Visuals usually dont mean shit without sound, but I also would hate great sound with nothing to look at.


Stupid Thread ++
 
To those of you who chose PLII (this should really include all 5.1+ methods) over progressive scan, have you actually played games in 5.1? i've played a few games on various progressive displays, and while the games look great (Ninja Gaiden looks stunning), i'd take S-Video output with 5.1 output, given the game supports it, over progressive scan any day. Being able to localize sounds around you in addition to ambient sounds and LFEs really immerses me in the game a lot more than great visual output.

Really though, home theater audio and a progressive display (i prefer widescreen) go hand-in-hand. With prices as low as they are now, a decent home theater setup (HDTV + HTIB) is possible for well under $1000, a reasonable price for many of us here.
 
pxleyes said:
Stupid Thread ++
Click to expand...

Trust me, I wouldn't start a thread this stupid if I didn't have a good reason for it. :P

Yes, of course we want widescreen progressive and true DD 5.1. Unfortunately, that's not the hypothetical question here. ;)

And if Lucas thinks half the movie is visuals and half is sound, I guess none of the movie is narrative. :)
 
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