Escape Goat
Member
fly the gang to Mount Doom and air drop the friggin ring inside Mount Doom? I'm not trying to be a smartass about it, I'm just curious as to what those things were and why they only showed up after people got into trouble.
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Why didn't those big birds in LOTR just...
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Yeah, Sauron would spot them and have those black flying things (name?) take them down.
That's what Tolkien might suggest, at any rate. Not that I buy it. Quite obviously the velocity of the big bird might be weighed down by two additional passengers; however, the purpoted agility would overcome this handicap and steer them to the mountain where the ring would be dropped with unparalleled accuracy.
That's what Tolkien might suggest, at any rate. Not that I buy it. Quite obviously the velocity of the big bird might be weighed down by two additional passengers; however, the purpoted agility would overcome this handicap and steer them to the mountain where the ring would be dropped with unparalleled accuracy.
People have been asking this question for years, actually.
Some of the reasons have been touched upon already. The Eagles are actually sentient beings who speak in the book, so yes they could very possibly be corrupted and take the ring for themselves. Also, the Fellowship was intended to be a stealth mission. The moment an Eagle crossed Mordor, a bajillion orcs would try to shoot it down or head to Mount Doom to intercept it, and Nazgul (Ringwraiths) on Fell Beasts would also take it down.
And the final big reason the Eagles could not be used... they had no way to convince the Eagles to help. My memory is really fuzzy but I'm pretty sure the Eagles didn't want to concern themselves with war at all, and only helped Gandalf very rarely and sparingly because he is one of the Maia (kind of a Middle-Eart equivalent to an angel). I think I remember the book hinting at the fact that the Eagles are tied to the Valar (Gods) themselves, and are perhaps bound by rules that prevent them from interfering too much? I honestly can't remember the details but I do recall something along these lines being part of the reason.
Some of the reasons have been touched upon already. The Eagles are actually sentient beings who speak in the book, so yes they could very possibly be corrupted and take the ring for themselves. Also, the Fellowship was intended to be a stealth mission. The moment an Eagle crossed Mordor, a bajillion orcs would try to shoot it down or head to Mount Doom to intercept it, and Nazgul (Ringwraiths) on Fell Beasts would also take it down.
And the final big reason the Eagles could not be used... they had no way to convince the Eagles to help. My memory is really fuzzy but I'm pretty sure the Eagles didn't want to concern themselves with war at all, and only helped Gandalf very rarely and sparingly because he is one of the Maia (kind of a Middle-Eart equivalent to an angel). I think I remember the book hinting at the fact that the Eagles are tied to the Valar (Gods) themselves, and are perhaps bound by rules that prevent them from interfering too much? I honestly can't remember the details but I do recall something along these lines being part of the reason.
Escape Goat
Member
Ah, okay. I know its a movie but if they're going to whip out a huge plot device they had better explain it. Oh well, another mystery is solved.
...unless?
...unless?
IIRC, the eagles wouldn't fly in Mordor while Sauron was there. They just wouldn't... whether they were afraid or repelled by Sauron or the Ring frightened them as it did Gandalf I don't remember (but I don't think it was every stated out loud), but in the books Tolkien has someone bring it up before the Fellowship leaves. Gandalf I think ixnays the whole idea. I think MrCheez is on the right track with the whole "they don't really give a eagles fart what happens anyway" thing too.
If the movies don't establish the place and nature of those big birds than there is no way to find the reason in the books. The movies are supposed to be self-sufficient and have already taken several liberties in terms of faithfullness to the books.
In the Peter Jackson version of LOTR, the birds are an arbitrary plot device. Plain and simple.
In the Peter Jackson version of LOTR, the birds are an arbitrary plot device. Plain and simple.
Saturnman said:
Eh.
Gandalf sees Moth. Gandalf talks to Moth. Moth goes away. Moth comes back, Eagles arrive.
You can just assume that Gandalf has some bad-ass buddies (which he does, really). I think it's a case of PJ just assuming the audience is smart enough to piece it together.
ScientificNinja
Member
Gwahir is explained at length in the books, but not in the movies. I nearly laughed out loud when Pippin stuck up his goggle-eyed head and exclaimed "The Eagles are coming!".
WHAT eagles? You're supposed to be under an orc, anyway (or was it Merry...?)
WHAT eagles? You're supposed to be under an orc, anyway (or was it Merry...?)
But they don't come out of nowhere, you know they are tied to Gandalf who's origin, history, and abilities are mostly shrouded in mystery on purpose. Things are not always spelled out for you, you are given hints and clues.
This is not to say it was handled perfectly. I think a little more info on them could have been given... but I think it was handled sufficiently.
Anyway, this isn't in the movie either but it's some cool info that I feel like sharing:
After Gandalf dies from his fight with the Balrog and comes back as The White, it is Gwaihir (the Eagle leader) who actually finds him and takes him naked to Lothlorien. (Where he gets his new duds and staff!) I'm pretty sure he kept contact with them a few other times throughout the War of the Ring as well, which explains them showing up at the Black Gate.
This is not to say it was handled perfectly. I think a little more info on them could have been given... but I think it was handled sufficiently.
Anyway, this isn't in the movie either but it's some cool info that I feel like sharing:
After Gandalf dies from his fight with the Balrog and comes back as The White, it is Gwaihir (the Eagle leader) who actually finds him and takes him naked to Lothlorien. (Where he gets his new duds and staff!) I'm pretty sure he kept contact with them a few other times throughout the War of the Ring as well, which explains them showing up at the Black Gate.
Yeah one of those two "dies" at that point and as the life leaves him he hears "The Eagles" but believes it to be a memory of a story that Bilbo told him.ScientificNinja said:
They took the hobbit false death out for two reasons IMO. one being the way the two halfs of RotK are integrated into one movie rather than seperate, the hobbit going black provided a cliffhanger for the entire second half of the book. The second being they had already done the "He's not dead!" thing 80 time in the movies
half of those times being made up by PJ - Status